Helping pwBPD to parent

[wundress]

We are having and have always had an issue with my wife's parenting.

Due to a lack of empathy she can't seem to understand why our 5 year old daughter doesn't do as she's told all the time, has tantrums etc. My wife seems to think our daughter should be a robot and judges her as if she is an adult.

For instance this morning we were all running very late. My wife was getting very stressed. She started shouting about everything. My daughter also gets stressed when she has low blood sugar/is hungry. I tend to let the tantrums go as I know my daughter can't help it. But my wife takes it very personally. I could see things were going to blow up so I asked my wife to go and do something in the kitchen. My daughter wanted a spoon and wife grabbed her by the arm and tried to force her to get her own spoon. I told her to stop it. So my wife leapt up and told me to shut up in front of our daughter then stormed off.

I did the rest of the morning routine on my own without further tantrums.

My wife stormed back in and said we needed to talk about me "undermining" her. We had already had a conversation about it yesterday because similar things happened yesterday evening. So this morning I steeled myself to sit calmly and listen. She went on about how I don't support her and I let our daughter get away with too much. So I pointed out that she is only 5 and she needs my protection when I feel she is being treated unfairly. I explained that I was trying to be supportive by giving the two of them space from each other. I said I knew my wife wants to be a good parent and I was trying to help her by taking away the difficult situations. She just went on about how I don't want her to be a parent. Threw every insult and accusation at me.

In the end I just stopped the conversation about the rights and wrongs. So I said we need a strategy and made a point of taking her suggestions and saying how they could work. I also made it very clear that I will not accept her manhandling our daughter and that my priority is to protect our daughter when needed.

Afterwards she apologised for shouting and being rude.

But how can we avoid these situations and how can I show her that I'm trying to help not undermine?

[livednlearned]

Hi wundress,

I wonder if doing some preliminary work on boundaries with her would help? For example, when her emotions are regulated, sit down and talk about common pain points in the day's routines, when D5 is stressed/hungry and how to handle these moments.

I find it much easier to invoke the boundary when it's something that was agreed to in advance, although not all pwBPD can do this. If it has to do with physically harming D5, it's best to make it clear that this can't happen, and what will happen when/if it does. Saying it in a way that validates BPDw's feelings (like you were doing), while also setting a firm boundary, will give you clearer guidelines for next time.

It's also really helpful to start working on emotional resilience with D5. Lesson 5 to the right -----------> has a lot of material about Raising Resilient Kids When a Parent Has BPD, including reading resources (Umbrella for Alex).

BPD parents have an intense need for validation, and are not good at giving it -- which a child needs for healthy development. BPD parents also have problems with individuation, and tend to see their children as extensions of themselves. When she is being hard on D5, it's almost self-directed, if that makes sense. So D5 is going to need a lot of help learning that it's safe to individuate, and that may mean you have to validate her feelings as much if not more so that BPDw's feelings.

It may be difficult to stop the conflicts. If that's the case, then a lot of the work will come before and after (repair and recovery), while at the same time making sure D5 is safe.

It's a good sign that BPDw apologized and recognizes that she was rude.  There are a lot of pwBPD who cannot/will not do that.

[wundress]

I will definitely have a look at those links as my D definitely needs support in this.

My wife is very much like two people. Completely self-absorbed and hard done by, can't listen, can't see that she has done wrong etc one minute and then the next calm and apologetic. I'm slowly learning that there is no point reasoning with her when she is in a dysregulated state and for my own sanity best to walk away from arguments. My wife initially thought that meant she was "winning" but now seems to realise that me walking away means less attention for her.

I'll try again to discuss the difficult points of the day and set some boundaries and routines.

[livednlearned]

There is a BPD expert (Bill Eddy) who has this metaphor he uses to describe what happens when someone with BPD dysregulates. He'll hold up high one side of a model brain and describe how that's the emotional reasoning, hitting the roof. The problem solving part of the brain is down lower, and when we're dealing with hot feelings, our job is to help lower the right half of the brain back down.

Most of us try to reason with the left side of the brain and work on solutions when the person with BPD is in no shape to be doing that. Validation is helpful to get the right side of the brain to come back down, although it can be very hard to do when it's in a real fit.

I have found validation works in some situations but not all, although creating a validating environment has worked best, if that makes sense. Meaning, it's what I'm always going for, and when it doesn't work, other skills and behaviors come into play. Like walking away or hanging up or leaving the house.

One of the books that really helped me has a misleading title in some ways - it's Bill Eddy's book Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids. He tends to deal with issues that involve family court, so the book is about parental alienation (often a big problem following divorce). But his message is helpful whether or not there has been a divorce.

He recommends approaching the conflict as someone modeling healthy relationship dynamics: managed emotions, flexible thinking, moderate behaviors. I think kids with BPD parents need a much more open access policy to this process so that they don't internalize BPD mom's behaviors and words. There is a lot of neuroscience research on the effects of kids who experience high stress in the home. Our kids are more at risk for mental health issues of their own, like anxiety/depression. My son is 14 now, and I look back and see that I tried to protect him (unsuccessfully) instead of teaching him how to operate the same dashboard (to use a bad metaphor!) that I was trying to learn. As a result, he felt very isolated and alone, even though I was keeping him relatively safe.

Feeling emotionally isolated almost always ends up in depression, and it looks different in kids and adolescents.

It's great that you're focusing on this now, and it's really helpful that your BPDw has the ability to recover -- this gives D5 a chance to see some accountability.

[wundress]

Hey,

I can understand your situation.Your wife might be in any tension or may be she is suffering from some anxiety issues.This is a quite family problem.So,I would like to suggest you to keep her at home health care centre for some days.Let her live her life independently and try to keep her away from all this situations.My sister was behaving the same,So we decided to keep her at Royal Care.Caregivers provide extra care and concern and listen to you and your problems,Plus help us to come out of it.You must try it once.

Hi

I don't understand what a home health care centre is?  I don't think she needs to be sent away anywhere.

[bus boy]

Hi. I do a lot of reading and therapy to help deal with the effects of my ex wife's mental and verbal abuse. Co parenting in my case, is as difficult as it was to be in a relationship with her. All the information is good but, again this is my situation and everyone's is different. I did not get any real piece of mind until I went no contact. I don't respond to texts or talk to her in any way. Very short to the point responses to her texts. I don't give her the chance to manipulate or twist my words into lies. I tried way possible to deal in a positive way to compromise,  reinforce, love, you name it I did it. I don't ask for anything, no extra time no nothing ever, I took away her ability to use my child as a tool to administer her hurt. I give my support payment in the former of a money order in my child's cloths bag and she gets it when I take my son back home. Speaking from my experience of 12 years of trying to make this relationship work during and after marriage, no contact works for me. I even started a journal where I write the daily things in it that I want to say to my son be she doesn't tell him I'm calling or doesn't give him my texts so now when I have him I read the journal to him. I removed her pleasure of seeing my calls come in and being able to read my texts for my son. Be there for your child physically and mentally, when he or she gets older you will reap the rewards. Keep the disturbed personality person out if your head and be there for the children. Totally forget about any of reasonable dialogue or humanity out of BPD or npd and keep moving forward.

[wundress]

Hi. I do a lot of reading and therapy to help deal with the effects of my ex wife's mental and verbal abuse. Co parenting in my case, is as difficult as it was to be in a relationship with her. All the information is good but, again this is my situation and everyone's is different. I did not get any real piece of mind until I went no contact. I don't respond to texts or talk to her in any way. Very short to the point responses to her texts. I don't give her the chance to manipulate or twist my words into lies. I tried way possible to deal in a positive way to compromise,  reinforce, love, you name it I did it. I don't ask for anything, no extra time no nothing ever, I took away her ability to use my child as a tool to administer her hurt. I give my support payment in the former of a money order in my child's cloths bag and she gets it when I take my son back home. Speaking from my experience of 12 years of trying to make this relationship work during and after marriage, no contact works for me. I even started a journal where I write the daily things in it that I want to say to my son be she doesn't tell him I'm calling or doesn't give him my texts so now when I have him I read the journal to him. I removed her pleasure of seeing my calls come in and being able to read my texts for my son. Be there for your child physically and mentally, when he or she gets older you will reap the rewards. Keep the disturbed personality person out if your head and be there for the children. Totally forget about any of reasonable dialogue or humanity out of BPD or npd and keep moving forward.

Thanks for your thoughts and I'm sorry to hear you had a difficult time. I intend to stay with my wife. I think some people are a little unfair towards people with BPD. My wife is not disturbed and she is doing her best to get well. I am under no illusions that she will be "normal" but in reality I don't believe there is such a thing. She tries to be a good mum and gets upset when she struggles or behaves in a way she wishes she hadn't.

I think it's rather unreasonable to put her in a care home or any other kind of institutions or to write her off! She has her own business which she built from nothing in a place which was completely new to her. She has great determination it's just that she struggles with parenting in particular.

[flourdust]

Hi

I don't understand what a home health care centre is?  I don't think she needs to be sent away anywhere.

It's just a spammer.

[livednlearned]

I intend to stay with my wife. I think some people are a little unfair towards people with BPD. My wife is not disturbed and she is doing her best to get well. I am under no illusions that she will be "normal" but in reality I don't believe there is such a thing. She tries to be a good mum and gets upset when she struggles or behaves in a way she wishes she hadn't.

She is lucky to have you. 

Many people on the Family Law board and to an extent on Coparenting are dealing with high-conflict people (HCP) and very dysregulated BPD ex partners. The spectrum of severity really does run the range here.

One BPD expert describes three kinds of BPD: generally cooperative, not dangerous; not cooperative, not dangerous; and not cooperative, dangerous. Perhaps your wife would fall into the first? My BPD ex was the last, although what he taught me has been the greatest gift I can imagine. I am a better parent because of him, a much more emotionally resilient role model for my son. What you learn here and pass along to your daughter, the same skills you use to support your wife, will be with her for life.

We can be mended. We mend each other. 

[bus boy]

Hi wundress

 I commented earlier today. Sorry for the disturbed personality comment. I was referring to my own experience. My hat is off to you for staying with your wife. I loved my son's mother very much and would of stayed the course but she left me, I spent the past 8 years proofing and reproving my self. I am getting some good in site on this form and learning of the  different levels of BPD. I come from a very rural community so help is limited. I wish you all the best.

[wundress]

Hi wundress

 I commented earlier today. Sorry for the disturbed personality comment. I was referring to my own experience. My hat is off to you for staying with your wife. I loved my son's mother very much and would of stayed the course but she left me, I spent the past 8 years proofing and reproving my self. I am getting some good in site on this form and learning of the  different levels of BPD. I come from a very rural community so help is limited. I wish you all the best.

Not a problem. I realise BPD can be a scary condition and affects those with it and their loved ones in a range of ways. I hope you find some answers here. I'm also from a rural area (in the UK). Very few people have even heard of BPD where I am from. There is nothing much in terms of support or education about it and was relieved to find this site.

What I find most upsetting about the condition is how unpredictable it can make my wife. One minute she seems rational and functioning. Next she can be unreachable, tells lies, acts like a child, uncontrollable anger etc.

I guess in terms of staying with my wife, I've learned to take control and that helps a lot. We are also in a seemingly unique position in that I noticed her unusual behaviours early on and did my own investigation/research online. We only got a diagnosis after 5 years which felt like vindication to me. Because I was proved right my wife seems to respect me more. She is starting to realise that whatever I do is in her and our best interests. 

That's not to say it isn't difficult.  It can be hugely difficult and frustrating. But we are only at the beginning of therapy and putting skills in place. Sometimes I can't be bothered and just wish things were easier but then I go back to acceptance and realising that wishing things were different won't make them different.

I've done a lot of reading on different personality disorders. I find some of the definitions a bit vague and the lines between some of them are a bit blurry. For instance the difference between psychopathy and BPD... .it could have been easy to think my wife was psychopathic at first. She didn't know why some of her behaviours were socially unacceptable, she didn't seem to care if she physically hurt other people, she could lie without batting an eye lid and never accepted responsibility, she had a charming facade which hid a dark angry personality. It was only when I really talked to her that I noticed under all that was a hurt little girl. Also the dissociation became very prominent so BPD was a better fit.

I imagine it is hard to make a decision to leave a person with BPD as they seem so needy and lost. Good luck with your journey. I'm sure you'll get some good advice here.