How to parent with a low functioning BPD spouse?

[Chansen]

As a father I know I have responsibilities and I want to own them and take more on if my wife needs a rest... .but with her BPD, she is completely low functioning, leaving me to do literally everything around the house, have a job, and take care of our daughter... .as well as meet the never ending and insatiable emotional needs my wife requests of me. I am a full time video editor and work at home... .unfortunately. This leaves her the excuse to lay in bed till 11 after our daughter gets up at 7am. I make our daughter breakfast and play with her till my wife wakes up. She typically turns on the TV and zones out once sh it up. I bring her breakfast/lunch (which she complains about most often... .I am not a good cook and she also requires things to taste good and be healthy) and then put our daughter to sleep for a nap. This then is my first time to work in peace... .but soon enough my wife's emotion needs rush to be filled once I head to my office, feeling as if I am leaving her... .she gives me an endless amount of tasks that often lead me to only working less than and hour during her nap and it is now 1pm... lately I have been validating these tasks, but stating I will get to them once our daughter is awake... .this pisses her off, but what can you do? Depending on my wife's mood, she might take a shower and start the day by 2pm. I try to keep things organized and clean, but honestly I am too stressed to stay on top of it and my wife chews me out and rages about it... .putting herself back on the tv the rest of the day to dull her emotions. The days she does attempt to cook and take care of our daughter, I enjoy, but also despise since as she goes about the house she builds up bitterness as she find how I have kept things... ."why did you fold these clothes this way?" "There is a mountain of laundry here!" "We have no food to cook!" "our floors of so dirty!"... .so back again she goes to her bed and tv... .leaving us alone. As the night drifts closer, I put our daughter to sleep and attempt to engage my wife in conversation... .usually ending in an hour or so with her raging again. Now is when I retreat back to my office at 9 or 10pm to work till 3am and go to bed. It is miserably exhausting and I can't imagine life like this any longer... .all along she continually claims it is my fault our life is like this and I need to find a away to change it and help her.

Does anyone else have an experience like this? How can you cope with it?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sweetheart]

Chansen   you might also find more specific targeted advice and support if you post on the Co-Parenting board.

You don't have to be split up to post there.

Here is a link to get you started

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.0

See you over there x

[Chansen]

Great thank you. I didn't know I could post there.

[Chansen]

I have moved this topic here now:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=289127.new#new

[formflier]

Chansen,

I'm going to debate that this needs to come back to staying board, at least for part of the post.

I noticed that you wife will "give" you tasks and that you "meet" her ever increasing emotional needs.

That is really staying board stuff.

Big theory:  You are a husband, not maid or employee.  Do what you feel comfortable with, do your best, and let your wife "be" however she is going to be about it.

Figure out how much of yourself you can "give" to your wife and stick to it.  She will eventually figure out "it" won't come from you and stop looking, or will look somewhere else.

We do need more specific posts if we are going to be able to give you more detailed answers.

FF

[leggomyeggshell]

I have a similar situation as you.  my wife will sleep in leaving me everyday to not only work 2 jobs but also take care of our child.  I eventually wake her up around 11 am by bringing her coffee, I would not go to the extreme of a big meal unless it was already part of something I was cooking, but then again I am not a good cook either.  I can relate to having the nap time be the window for work to get done and then the pwBPD trying to distract you during that time.  Then after naptime she wants at least 50% participation with our child from me as well which also prevents me from working.  Then by bedtime for our child I am pretty much exhausted, so I have to find clever ways to sneak being able to work, which is ridiculous if you think about it.  At one point I had to wait until she went to bed before I could start working at like 2 am.  Then set the alarm so that I can wake up to take care of our child.  It's been a struggle I am still working out, but thankfully due to me raising the issue about being overwhelmed so many times, and also her attending therapy, lately the issue has been alleviated somewhat.  I'm saying that because the last week has been better, but who knows how long that will last.  Then on days when she would take over tasks so I can work, because I've practically begged her for it, she would resent me the whole time, I have to just put up a wall in my mind of like "I don't care" just so the work can get done.  Of course she also gives me additional tasks on those days as well such as telling me I am supposed to pick up all the toys from the morning, that we are starting a new system where I have to meticulously clean everything in the house, etc.  I've offered to have house cleaners come, she says no, they will steal things.  I've asked if we can get a babysitter so that I would have time to work, she says no, she doesn't want us to lose the time with our child.  Honestly this is a huge issue for me as well and I have no idea how to resolve it.  Things that have improved:  she has started getting up earlier by choice and even left the house with our child on a few days which was awesome.  unfortunately for her to do this she has to be mad at me for some reason, and leaving the house as sort of a tell off to me.  Then it can be hard for me to work until my emotions recover for a few hours, depending how severe the threats were that she gives just before she left, can leave me in a state of anxiety...   After that dissipates however it is smooth sailing as far as work finally getting done.

[leggomyeggshell]

The days she does attempt to cook and take care of our daughter, I enjoy, but also despise since as she goes about the house she builds up bitterness as she find how I have kept things... ."why did you fold these clothes this way?" "There is a mountain of laundry here!" "We have no food to cook!" "our floors of so dirty!"... .so back again she goes to her bed and tv... .leaving us alone. As the night drifts closer, I put our daughter to sleep and attempt to engage my wife in conversation... .usually ending in an hour or so with her raging again. Now is when I retreat back to my office at 9 or 10pm to work till 3am and go to bed. It is miserably exhausting and I can't imagine life like this any longer... .all along she continually claims it is my fault our life is like this and I need to find a away to change it and help her.

Does anyone else have an experience like this? How can you cope with it?

Also my wife sometimes dysregulates at night over household stuff in much the same way after I already did the morning shift with our child which means it is yet another day where I had to do both childcare shifts...   so this sounds all too familiar... .  I did manage recently to get her to dbt therapy after ten years.  She has seen various counsellors over the years but generally she keeps them as "yes-people" where she never really worked on herself, just spent her time venting about this or that frustration (usually me).  She's done the thing with all of them where she believes they are siding with her against me and it actually empowers her to treat me even worse in a way.  I actually don't know if the dbt therapy is helping her yet but it gives me hope for the situation.  Never tell her though about BPD though if you can help it, there seems to be some kind of trigger point for people with BPD if you tell them they might have it.

Have you tried hiring a babysitter or nanny to help so that you can work in the morning before she wakes up?  Mine would not let me as she insists on being the one to pick the caregiver and thoroughly vet them, but then never actually does anything to find anyone.  I have toyed with the idea of finding a babysitter myself.  If I do that then my wife will reject the person because it was my idea, but then it will spurn action from her so the work problem would probably be solved, regardless of the roller coaster that ensues ... .

[waverider]

My wife is low functioning too. Maybe even lower than yours. The important thing s to find the benefit to you. To me this came when I stopped pestering her about things that she simply can't do. These are likely to be the things she is projecting onto you. In return for not guilting her I made sure the things that I do I have total control.  Do not accept lists of chores. If you are to do them then you will set and schedule them.

It then becomes your business not your obligation, you feel less like a servant then. I also now can take huge slabs of me time, whereas before a slight absence would result in self harming etc.

If you feel resentment it will show, and she will preemptively strike out at you.

If she feels incapable she wil want to make out you are too, that way it normalizes it

[Notwendy]

My mother is a low functioning BPD and we had household help. My mother was fine with it, in fact, she enjoys the idea of having someone to tend to her. So, from the start, there were baby nurses to take care of us, housekeepers, and babysitters.

Eventually, we as kids got the feeling that something was different about our mother, but nobody would explain and we were punished if we rocked the boat by asking too much. There were the rages, but one contrast that I noticed was that the mothers of my friends did thing like cook dinner, clean. This was a generation ago where women were mainly housewives, and it was rare that the mothers of my friends had careers, so I mostly noticed that the mothers did things that mine didn't.

By my teens, I was aware of financial stresses, and offered to do more in the house. I also felt that we didn't need a babysitter as we kids were getting old enough to not need one but my parents insisted on continuing having regular household help. My dad didn't say much about my requests, but only replied " mother has to have this".

Ironically, my mother has aged into where what was not normal is normal. She is elderly and has household help, as well as people doing things one would normally do for an elderly person- take her places, grocery shop. But it was as an adult a while back that I recognized how low functioning she was. I could not see this as a kid.

There is a mental function called "executive function" that is independent from intelligence. My mother is very intelligent actually, but the transfer of that intelligence into productivity is where she has trouble. Executive function is our mental planning of getting something done. So to cook something we think : recipe, ingredients, go to the store. My mother can not do this, and if she wants to do something when I am there, I have to walk her through the steps. She has the motivation to want to do it. I recall that she would sign up to bring baked goods at school- be motivated to do this like the other moms and then come home and rage at me to do it for her. I just thought she was crazy mean, but she does not have the executive function to bake cookies and wanted home made. But when she "wants" to cook something when I am there, it is " which pan should I use? This one? where do I put it? I am sure it is embarrassing for her to not be able to do these things, so instead of admitting it, she would rage at us and make us do them for her----- or have hired help do it and that's why it eventually made sense to me that we would have to have household help long past the time we kids outgrew sitters. By our teens we were busy with school, activities, and not home with her as much. I don't know how much she can accomplish task wise in the home. Taking my mother to the mall is like taking a small child- who gets lost, can't find what they need to buy. She isn't elderly-forgetful. She was always this way. Yet this charming beautiful woman can discuss current events or a book and appears completely intact in other situations, but she does not seem to have much executive function.  

In retrospect, although I resented the sitters, I am now grateful to know that someone took care of me. My father did but he had to work. I realize that, thanks to the sitters, I did have someone to love me, hug me, feed me as a baby and that was important for my well being. I think it was also important for dad to have a life too- a career- and having sitters gave him peace of mind- he didn't have to worry about us, or mom as much if someone was there.

So, from my own experience- I am all for it. But I am also with WW in that one needs to let her do what she is capable of doing, so that she does have a sense of accomplishment, and then- some radical acceptance of what can not be done.

[Notwendy]

I also want to address the idea of bringing someone in. This, in a sense, may highlight the deficit and the person with BPD might resist it. There could also be some drama between the pwBPD and the sitter- especially if the sitter dares to say something triggering.

What my mother does not admit, is that not accomplishing things does hurt her self esteem, and so does not want them to be pointed out. So she will resort to other behaviors to get people to do them for her. She has raged at me to run errands, make appointments for her, somehow twisting this into some reason why I need to do them. She also pretends she can do things, and if we mention anything that she doesn't do them, she will rage.

I suspect that having babysitters/household help was presented in a way that didn't involve any possible criticism of my mother.

[Chansen]

Although my heart goes out to you all for having the same miserable situation... .I am also very relieved to not be alone. I constantly feel like such a failure for not providing for our families basic needs and hearing how you all are struggling with the same gives me confidence that I am not a failure.

Big theory:  You are a husband, not maid or employee.  Do what you feel comfortable with, do your best, and let your wife "be" however she is going to be about it.

Figure out how much of yourself you can "give" to your wife and stick to it.  She will eventually figure out "it" won't come from you and stop looking... .or will look somewhere else.

I have tried to putt his in action and it has helped a lot. Instead of trying to complete her every command, but instead complete what I CAN do and respecting myself gives me a lot of freedom and peace.

leggomyeggshell, I am especially shocked by how similar our situations are. I didn't think I would ever find someone else who was self-employed and had a low-functioning BPD spouse. We have to stay in contact!

lately the issue has been alleviated somewhat.  I'm saying that because the last week has been better, but who knows how long that will last.  Then on days when she would take over tasks so I can work, because I've practically begged her for it, she would resent me the whole time,

And yes leggomyeggshell, I feel the same way here all the time. She does pick herself up frequently and try. Although, I know it is mostly motivated by guilt of not being involved in her daughters life... .which becomes evident very quickly as becomes exhausted in the evening and blames me for it and all of our problems again.

Then it can be hard for me to work until my emotions recover for a few hours, depending how severe the threats were that she gives just before she left, can leave me in a state of anxiety...   After that dissipates however it is smooth sailing as far as work finally getting done.

I feel the same way so often, but I am trying to remove myself more from her emotions and am learning a lot how I can regulate my emotions so I can save myself and how I act around our daughters... .if I don't that stress she induces on me can really come out poorly when our daughter refuses to get dressed and change diapers ten times a day... .I know improving myself has really helped, but I really wish she would go to DBT as your is... .I know she would be so receptive of it, but I have pushed it a little TOO much and should leave it be for a while as I am worried she might resent it soon... .staying patient I guess is the lessen here.

Have you tried hiring a babysitter or nanny to help so that you can work in the morning before she wakes up?  Mine would not let me as she insists on being the one to pick the caregiver and thoroughly vet them, but then never actually does anything to find anyone.  I have toyed with the idea of finding a babysitter myself.  If I do that then my wife will reject the person because it was my idea, but then it will spurn action from her so the work problem would probably be solved, regardless of the roller coaster that ensues ... .

Now this is something my wife even brought up recently! And I am glad about it since I can imagine she would very easily see it as a failure. I would like to pursue this, however, where we live right now there isn't much options. We live abroad in Poland (she is Polish) and we live in a very small city. We have talked about moving to the nearest larger city where we have friends which she said would be good fit to take care of our child for a half a day to alleviate some pressure on her during the day as well as get me in routine with work. I will bring this up with her soon as I really think this will help with most of the stress she has (ie. dirty dishes, kitchen, floors, and laundry and constantly being broke because of me not working... .which she still blames me for)

My wife is low functioning too. Maybe even lower than yours. The important thing s to find the benefit to you. To me this came when I stopped pestering her about things that she simply can't do. These are likely to be the things she is projecting onto you. In return for not guilting her I made sure the things that I do I have total control.  Do not accept lists of chores. If you are to do them then you will set and schedule them.

It then becomes your business not your obligation, you feel less like a servant then. I also now can take huge slabs of me time, whereas before a slight absence would result in self harming etc.

If you feel resentment it will show, and she will preemptively strike out at you.

If she feels incapable she wil want to make out you are too, that way it normalizes it

waverider, this is very wise. I too often take her lists and accomplish them, with resentment, and later after not feeling at all acknowledged, the resentment defiantly comes out in bittnerness. I am trying to be on a more schedule cleaning and be ok with myself on what I can and cannot do and not caring how she reacts. I will work on this, thank you for the simple advice.

In retrospect, although I resented the sitters, I am now grateful to know that someone took care of me. My father did but he had to work. I realize that, thanks to the sitters, I did have someone to love me, hug me, feed me as a baby and that was important for my well being. I think it was also important for dad to have a life too- a career- and having sitters gave him peace of mind- he didn't have to worry about us, or mom as much if someone was there.

Thanks Notwendy! This quote really hit me. I am so scared for our daughter. I try to give her an extra portion of love every day, but one person cannot adequately take care of a child practical and emotional needs. I can see how much lighter and predictable life would feel if we had someone take care of her during the day. As well as my wife has suggested one of her friends to hire as a nanny which will allow and motivate her to also be involved still with our daughter during the day, but without the pressure to to everything if she gets overwhelmed. I will really look into this. Thank you for sharing your story... .I replaced my daughter in your story as I read and I can really see the benefit. Sometimes I would see having a nanny as a failure as a parent, but I see here that it is necessary until things really change in my wife.

Thank you all again for your responses. It really means a lot!

[leggomyeggshell]

It is also good to know that I am not the only person going through this out there.  There were two points from your post that I can offer additional insight into:  1) I tried the thing where we moved closer to a relative who could help with our child.  It lasted about six months before my wife was in a major conflict with every person we knew at the new location and then she took our child and drove 1000 miles away to "escape" from their "abuse".  I spent way too much money to recover our family after this situation.  So, be careful involving family and friends because they might get caught up in the drama.  2) getting her into dbt therapy was next to impossible.  It happened at a moment when she admitted she needed counseling for other issues that had nothing to do with her blowup episodes, and then when I did a Google search I was able to find someone that did both dbt therapy and also listed that they counsel people for her admitted issue of ptsd.  Then she made the call.  Any time in the past when I would tell her at a moment of weakness that she had BPD she would insist she had looked it up and that she didn't fit the symptoms.  I have to tread lightly about her therapy but there have been weeks where I could not wait for her next session to come along because of how much turmoil she is causing.

[Chansen]

I want to bring up a recent situation and get some suggestions and insights on what I can do better and what I am doing wrong. Here it is:

Again, as I mentioned above, I work at home and get nothing done most of the time outside of staying up late and not getting any sleep. So the time our daughter goes to sleep is like GOLD to me. However, my wife guilt trips me in to her needs during this time leaving me staying up later that evening. Today for example, I put our daughter to sleep and went straight to work. Sometimes I would go tell her I am about to go, but this honestly gives her a chance to suck me in with something, so I went straight to my office... .WHEW! But that dreadful door opened up 15mn later and she asked me to come in the other room. Surprisingly, she sat on the coach and said nothing. I saw she needed a hug and some love, which she rarely asks for and accepts from me... .so it was a little unusual. So I genuinely decided to take some time and be with her. I picked her up and sat her in my lap and held her for over a half hour in silence, rocking her back and forth slowly, kissing her often on the head, and rubbing her back. After what seemed like 40mn, I told her I should get back to work as I need to stay on track for this next project as we do have a big bill at the end of this month. She stayed silent and sat back on the couch and I kissed her and told her we will have some quality time tonight when our daughter goes to bed before I go back to work for the remaining 3 hours I need to put in. She seemed content and I left back for my office. Once our daughter woke up, I brought her into the room my wife was in which I was happy to see her out of her pajamas and starting the day (At 4pm... .). However, her first words were "do you know what is very sad?"... .I have come to despise these first words as what follows might be sad but always filled with a sense of bitterness, passive agression, and the ability to rage with the slightest missplaced reaction... .anyway, she continued "How often do I let you hug me and you just left for work... ." I didn't respond directly, but I showed that I was listening. Our daughter conveniently spilled something (thank goodness for children!), giving me an excuse to dissolve the conversation... .WHEW! However... .once i put our daughter to sleep tonight I came to my her right away and told her how much I want to be with her and am looking forward to it since this afternoon. But, she right away brought up again how "I left her". I tried to validate her feelings and told her "I see that it made your sad and I also want to spend time now together after I have gotten work done during the day", but also told her truth "that I spent a very long time with you and really wanted to be there for you, but the time our daughter is asleep is crucial for me to get work done and not be up late ." She flipped out and told me how much it proves that I don't care about her. So I said, "then lets talk about a way we can still have the time together you, AND I, want, while still giving me time to work". She got even more angry and told me "you don't know how to pursue a women and me answering that question would be pathetic for me. Besides, I don't want to spend time with you!... ." So I decided to move the conversation away since it was not being productive and recommended we watch a movie together instead of talking. She told me she didn't want to and instead wanted to watch televison (which is in Polish, we live abroad). I told her "if you dont want to talk, and don't want to watch a movie together with me, it is a waste of my time to sit here watching this with you if were not doing together so I am going to work". She flipped and said "this is exactly what I mean. It is your job to convince me to want to spend time with you. What if it took 20 years till I wanted to, would you not try?" She started to become very manic and crazy and demanded I leave.

So here I am writing this at 1am eating at my time to work... .but I just can't get this off my mind as tomorrow, like a clock, this will all start over again... .Am I missing something? Is there another way I can talk about this? Am I validating her correctly and also sticking to my needs and the truth? I am new at this and only starting to learn it and practice it.

Connecting things a bit... .Maybe talking with her about getting a nanny would show her that I value time with her while still giving me time to work?... .

... .I'm confused in the end and need some help.

[Chansen]

leggomyeggshell, I am glad you don't feel alone as well in this. Also, thank you for the insights.

1) I tried the thing where we moved closer to a relative who could help with our child.  It lasted about six months before my wife was in a major conflict with every person we knew at the new location and then she took our child and drove 1000 miles away to "escape" from their "abuse".

This is very wise. I can definitely see this becoming an issue if I'm not careful. I will keep this in mind., thank you.

I have to tread lightly about her therapy but there have been weeks where I could not wait for her next session to come along because of how much turmoil she is causing.

Gosh I hear you! She uses BPD and DBT now as a way that I am using to excuse myself of my failures in our marriage, even though she admits she most likely has BPD and would benfit from DBT as well as me OVERSTATING that this does not mean that I don't have to work on anything and that I have not made mistakes in our marriage that have hurt her and made things harder... .however, she insists that I know that everything is my fault. The thing is, I know she will do so good in DBT. She is very intelligent and can be very hard working when she has the right motives and has a very keen ability to make connections and apply what she learns... .it's just getting her there that is so hard. I did buy a book recommended on this site called, "The High-Conflict Couple: A Dialectical Behaviour Therapy Guide to Finding Peace, Intimacy & Validation". I thought it was a nice neutral ground for both of us to work on something together as it mentions nothing about BPD (while it is written by a professional on BPD  ). I hope she will want to go through it with me once it arrives in the mail. ... I really hope so.

Has anyone else here read "The High-Conflict Couple" or also gone through it with their BPD spouse? What do you think about it?

[leggomyeggshell]

Regarding your first post, she wants to be romanticized and does not see the need for you to work.  I think we take the stuff they say more seriously than they themselves do sometimes.  You are doing just fine, these blowups are going to happen almost regardless of what you do.  You spent the time with her and would have spent more with her had it not been peppered with BS.  The validation as I understand it is not a guarantee that they will come around, it just makes their dysregulation last less time and puts more of the responsibility in their court to work on their issues.  Could you have done this or that to make things better, maybe, but If you had devoted the entire night to her as she professes to want, but then the issue you would be writing about would be some other thing you said or did that she took issue with.  these blowups can happen at any time and as I am learning in another thread they are often projections onto you which convince you it was based on something you said but which was actually completely independent of your actions... .

[Notwendy]

I think that being in the house and not being available to her would be more difficult than going to work and then being available when you are home. Working at home seems to be a set up for frequently saying no to her, while being at a job, in a meeting, would have that boundary set up.  Also, if you were unavailable, she would have to find some way to entertain herself. I think pwBPD have a hard time being alone with their bad feelings. You being present in the home to soothe her would lead to her turning to you first instead of learning to self soothe.

I can see a couple of possibilities. One would be a physical office somewhere else- even a corner with a computer, and a routine where you go to work X hours a day and you would have to set up a boundary where you are not answering the phone all the time. The other would be that to do this, also, you would need a sitter for your own piece of mind.

Neither of these would be easy to set up and she may not be happy about this. But your being available to her all the time might just be a set up for continuous abandonment scenes during the day.

The sitter would also have to deal with her during the day, and that also is something to consider.

[Euler2718]

She got even more angry and told me "you don't know how to pursue a woman.

Some bonehead, long ago, put this idea of "pursuing a woman" into the collective unconscious -- it's horrible, because the whole time you're pursuing the pwBPD, they're in control, project all their faults onto you, and you're some hapless hopeless creature. Also, you might actually "catch" a normal person -- not a pwBPD, though (at least, not for very long and it will start again).

[walbsy7]

I am in a similar situation. My uBPDw is not what I would consider low-functioning, but I would not call it high functioning either... .more like somewhere in between. I leave around 7:30am and work as a Project manager for a construction company, come home around 5:30pm. My wife is VERY routined, every day is the same routine, from eating, to her working out, to when our 15mo old wakes up, eats, plays, naps, etc. She takes care of the house for the most part, although I will clean toys when I come home, do dishes at night, take out the trash, vacuum on weekends, feed our son night about half the time. To me, that is a pretty good split, as she does the other things. I would not call it necessarily "stressful" on her, as to her work load, but she complains constantly about it.

Try to understand this... .

She thinks that I think that because she is a stay at home mom and does not make any money, that I think she does not do alot. She does get stressed very easily, and I do not cope well with that (because I am the opposite, I handle stress well). I do understand why she is stressed, aka the kid crying, not eating, etc... .it builds during the day. I get it. In those situations, I try to have her calm down, relax, take a seat for a few minutes and I will finish whatever she is doing. Then she thinks that I am "replacing her" and whatever, it starts a fight. In reality, I am just trying to help her. It is frustrating.

I think the best thing to do is keep them busy. Keep their mind busy so they can not think about "other things". Generally, at least in my situation, when my wife has time to think about the past or how I have hurt her (perceived or actual), that is when things are not good. If she has responsibilities, even if they are small, maybe that will help.