Keeping your boundaries around suicide threats

[Chansen]

I am trying to figure out how to set boundaries and respect myself more. One thing I have decided I will not tolerate is name calling. I will stick around even though my BPD wife might say things with a very sharp painful tone, but try to listen to what she is really saying. But when she starts to attack me by calling me "a miserably copy of a man", for example, I must leave the conversation. However, with my wife this is not so easy. I have stepped away from conversations, but never without the guilt tripping comment, "don't be surprised you could find me dead when you come back if you choose to leave like this." She really expects from me to be an emotional punching bag and sit silent while she stabs me in the most sensitive spots. I see the need to protect myself and remove myself from her, but I have no idea how to respond when she says this... .or maybe a better way to say I am leaving the conflict.

In the heat of these moment she really can loose reality and I am genuinely worried about her doing something to herself (she has cut herself before and scratch herself and pulled out her hair very bad when she goes manic). I just don't want to fuel her ability to manipulate me and I also need to protect myself from how much she can destroy my confidence.

Any suggestions here?

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[flourdust]

This is classic BPD behavior. I have a similar boundary, and my wife escalated with suicide threats. I'll tell you what I was told by both my therapist and the family education program at my wife's DBT program:

You're not trained to evaluate and respond to suicide threats. That's what the crisis line is for. Get the number for your local crisis line and put it on your phone's speed dial. Give the number to your wife, too. Offer to call the line if she threatens suicide. And follow through.

I've had to do this, and I learned two things.  1) The people on the crisis line know ALL ABOUT borderline personality disorder. In fact, all you have to do is say she has BPD, and you've saved yourself ten minutes of explaining. 2) My wife wasn't really suicidal. She wanted to make me feel ... .guilty or something ... .so I wouldn't enforce my boundary and get away from her. Once the crisis line was in play, she backed down from making those threats.

[Cat Familiar]

Regarding suicide threats, my ex-husband used to say almost verbatim what you've quoted. I finally reached the end of my rope when I was several hundred miles away, visiting my father in the hospital as he was about to die. My husband called the day after my father died and told me I had to come home immediately or he was going to commit suicide. My mother was totally distraught about my father's death and we hadn't even buried him at that moment.

So I called a suicide hot line and asked for advice. They told me to ask explicitly how he intended to do it and numerous followup questions. Since I had just arranged for my father's burial, I knew all the questions about what to do with a dead body.

When my husband called again and reiterated his threat, I asked if he wanted to be cremated or buried, if he wanted to be embalmed or refrigerated, and I explained that he would have to be embalmed if he wanted to be viewed by his mother and sisters because they lived a considerable distance away.

He never again threatened me with suicide. However after I broke up with him, his girlfriend told me that he was holding her "hostage with his suicide threats." I don't know that I would recommend this technique to anyone, but it sure worked for me. And I was willing to do it because I was so utterly done with hearing his threats, especially when I was grieving for my dad.

[Chansen]

flourdust, Thank you for your response.

Get the number for your local crisis line and put it on your phone's speed dial. Give the number to your wife, too. Offer to call the line if she threatens suicide. And follow through.

I never ever thought of this as an option, but I really see how it can be. It is a relief to hear:

You're not trained to evaluate and respond to suicide threats.

For so long, I felt like such a failure not knowing what to do. I will be sure to mention BPD when I ring.

I do think my wife is sometimes suicidal though. I can see she can use it to manipulate me, but I have stolen pills from her several times, caught her in the bathroom trying to hang herself from a pull light switch strong in the ceiling... .all of which were never lethal, but terrifying without a doubt. I hide all our knives when I see she is manic for my and her safety... but she claims she fights with jumping out the window (three stories). I do want to take this seriously, as she can be so out of touch with reality when she is manic. I found a crisis line were we live now (we live abroad so I was surprised to find something in Polish. I didn't know it was such a common thing.) Thank you for the suggestion, I will defiantly use it next time she says she is suicidal... .defiantly a relief to know I am not responsible for helping hr in these moments. And besides, I am what she claims made her that way, so even if I was qualified, I could only make it worse realistically.

Thank you again flourdust! Really... .

[Cat Familiar]

I had to make guns disappear. Once I drove around for two weeks with a rifle hidden in the trunk of my car before I could find anyone who would take it from me.

[Jessica84]

I used to hear suicide threats. Scared the daylights out of me. I came to this forum looking for help, one of my first posts here. He didn't use it as a weapon to hold me hostage exactly. He was genuinely depressed. But he did use it as a way to get my attention after a breakup. When I wasn't responding to him, the threats came.

By then, the suicidal ideation was worsening and he kept talking about it. I finally told him I am willing to listen to him, let him vent, validated him, but told him I am not a professional and not equipped for this. Suggested he talk to a counselor or suicide hotline. After that, he changed his meds and eventually he stopped bringing it up.

[Chansen]

I asked if he wanted to be cremated or buried, if he wanted to be embalmed or refrigerated, and I explained that he would have to be embalmed if he wanted to be viewed by his mother and sisters because they lived a considerable distance away.

Cat Familiar, I am shocked that worked. However, I think this technique would not be good for my wife. Is this what they recommended you to do? Or did you come up with ti on your own? If not, what did they recommend? Also, I am glad guns are illegal to own privately in Poland. I think if she might have one she could use it.

Your situation is so very familiar to one i had not so long ago when my grandpa died. We live abroad and my family called and told me that grandpa would probably die in the next week and I should fly back to say good bye and stay for the funeral if possible. I was very emotional and told my wife I wanted to go right away. Unfortunately, she does not have a visa yet to travel to the States so this meant she (very low-functioning) would have to stay back with our 1.5 year old daughter for a few days. She supported me for a few hours, but suddenly switched and told me "Your grandpa is dying, but I am too and I am your wife. So make your decision... ." She threatened me with suicide for the coming days if I would go despite my trying to find a way for her stay with a family friend... .all along I am mourning the possibility of never seeing my grandpa again as I waste time sucked in her endless emotional black hole... .in the end sadly my Grandpa passed away and I only was able to say good bye over the phone when he was just barely conscious to understand. I watch his funeral streamed online fortunately though... .If it was just her, like your ex-husband, I would have gone and forced her to stay with a friend, but my daughter was caught in the middle who I could not bring along... .tough situation and I really have not grieved his loss so much because of the situation. Thank you for sharing your story, it opens up some things I need to heal apparently.

[Cat Familiar]

What they recommended was to ask how he planned on killing himself and to get him talking about it. Other than that, I don't remember too much as it was many years ago and I was in a very upset state having to deal with him making threats, soothing my BPD mother who was completely surprised by my dad's death even though he had cancer and looked terrible, and my own grief.

Because I was so incensed that he would demand I return before the funeral, I just improvised. I think he was shocked that I could talk about him committing suicide in such a matter-of-fact way and all I wanted to know was how he wanted me to handle his death. It was a real wake-up call for me to realize how selfish he was and how he had zero compassion for my circumstances. It ultimately was one of the factors that led to me breaking up with him.

[teapay]

My W has attempted suicide a few times.  Blew out her liver ODing on pills.  She has had long spells of suicidal ideation.  The last two years have been particularly bad.  Some of it is real.  Some of it is trying to manipulate me, usually to have me back off some issue.  She will self harm with burns, cuts and horrific bruises the same way.

My take has evolved into if you feel you might kill yourself you belong in the hospital.  I offer to take her or call the ambulance.  If it is real, she'll go.  If not, it just goes away because she doesnt really want to explain to the paramedics why they got called and taken against her will.

I don't suicide proff the house.  It's impossible.  We need forks and knives to eat.  We heat with wood and cook on a stove.  We need medicines.  We need tools to fix things.  I've made terms with her going bye bye if that's what she does.  I've had to think about how and plan I would raise our kids.  I think that has empowered me alittle to make some changes and be less a prisoners of it all.  Her attempts have definitely damaged our relationship.

[Notwendy]

Cat, I love the burial questions in detail!

[waverider]

Therapy for BPD started off as therapy for suicidal women, from there it was soon realized that BPD was often at the heart of most suicide idealizations. Hence the therapy was adapted specifically for BPD in the form of DBT and its equivalents. This is why suicide crisis teams are very clued up on the Borderline mindset.

The idea behind going into clinical details is to bring them out of the idealization phase back into reality. The goal of not having things like guns around is to not have the means available for impulsive actions before this can be accomplished. If someone is dead set on doing it you can't stop them, but you can deter impulsive actions.

Arguing and reacting can feed, and validate, impulsive thoughts. If you panic it normalizes their own panic levels.

[Thread]

You're not trained to evaluate and respond to suicide threats. That's what the crisis line is for. Get the number for your local crisis line and put it on your phone's speed dial. Give the number to your wife, too. Offer to call the line if she threatens suicide. And follow through.

Just as flourdust said my therapist has given me the same advice, the one from where we met and the one I locally was seeing.

I never could tell if it was manipulation or threats, so when he would do it I said I'd call. And he'd stop. Also my mom called once because he was texting me suicidal comments... .We called and the police did show up at his door. I haven't had any issues for a long while with those kind of comments.

I'm sorry you're going through this sounds similar to stuff I have dealt with too... .Right now I'm working on the put downs, belittling and name calling. Happens every time he feels insecure or that I may be better than him at something.

[sweetheart]

This is classic BPD behavior. I have a similar boundary, and my wife escalated with suicide threats. I'll tell you what I was told by both my therapist and the family education program at my wife's DBT program:

You're not trained to evaluate and respond to suicide threats. That's what the crisis line is for. Get the number for your local crisis line and put it on your phone's speed dial. Give the number to your wife, too. Offer to call the line if she threatens suicide. And follow through.

I've had to do this, and I learned two things.  1) The people on the crisis line know ALL ABOUT borderline personality disorder. In fact, all you have to do is say she has BPD, and you've saved yourself ten minutes of explaining. 2) My wife wasn't really suicidal. She wanted to make me feel ... .guilty or something ... .so I wouldn't enforce my boundary and get away from her. Once the crisis line was in play, she backed down from making those threats.

This from flourdust is about as good as it gets. Also just to add if things ever get violent or you don't have crisis number to hand, phone the emergency services/police and they will help you. They did me.

My h threatened and attempted suicide on many occasions, I would always make that call, I am not qualified to deal with it. I also refuse to be held to ransom by it but I understand that it can be terrifying to be on the receiving end of.

Here is this forums link for advice on how to deal with suicidal ideation,

https://bpdfamily.com/discussions/search-info3.htm