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Author Topic: I am writing mainly to vent, also hoping someone on here can give me insight  (Read 457 times)
leggomyeggshell
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« on: January 22, 2016, 03:01:36 PM »

I am writing mainly to vent, also hoping someone on here can give me insight that helps in some small way, but knowing there isn't really any.

What do I do about this situation?  The back story is that I was with this pwBPD for 8 years.  She dysregulated all the time but I always thought it was because she had horrible things that happened to her in the past, so I was forgiving of her because I thought she had ptsd or something.  Then one day to punish me for going to a hobby I am involved in, she got mad and made good on her "threat" to get a dog.  However, I fell in love with the dog almost immediately so it ended up being a blessing.  Then, a year or so later she got pregnant.  How this occurred has caused fights before but she did spike my drink with yohimbe root which is like Viagra.  Maybe that's not relevant.  Anyway, our daughter is amazing, if challenging to keep up with at times.

Ok, but the storyline goes like this:  We had our daughter and moved to my hometown.  The reason for moving was that the pwBPD was putting all of the childcare duties on me and I needed help.  The only person I could think of was my mom to help out.  Around this time she got a dui and forced us to quit drinking altogether which led to some fights.  She has been a complete pain in the ass since that occurred, but I digress.

We moved near my mom and then within six months the whole situation imploded.  Her behavior had been horrible.  She was constantly out of the house, but would rage at me if I ever invited my mom over to help out with our child.  She had been starting fights over nothing and called the police multiple times just so that she could enforce some threat over nothing.  One time she called because she discovered I had drank the wine about a week earlier and she wanted to use it for cooking.  There were several times she took our daughter and went to stay at a hotel for a week, blackmailing me not to return unless I did x, y, or z.  The hard part was my family saw this situation and wanted to get me out at all costs.  I was sort of lukewarm to the idea because I didn't want to not see my daughter and dog ever again whilst continuing to get blackmailed by the pwBPD for money the rest of my life.

Long story short, once my family stepped in, she drove off one day to another state to take our daughter to her mom's house.  Apparently the YWCA where she had been going for advice to use against me (she learned how to manipulate the situation telling them she was being verbally abused and needed help - which they fell for) told her to take our kid out of the state.  I was aware of what she was doing but trying to hold things together.

Stupidly I rented a place for us in her state which we are about 6 months into at this point.  The good news is she feels slightly more secure here so I have only had the police called on me one time over nothing.  The bad news is she hasn't changed much and still is a total pain in the ass.  Now she won't let me leave the house at all because she says she is so worried I will drink.  Her way of putting it is that I can leave but she will lock me out (and threaten me the rest of the night to leave me).  If I go to a hotel after two days she will have a moment of clarity because she cannot keep up on the work without me - then the cycle continues.

She is constantly out of the house or asleep meaning I do 75% of the childcare.  She seems oblivious to this even though I have made it a central concern of mine.  The reason is that she is not capable of doing 50%.

Thankfully she began attending dbt therapy.  I have been waiting around hoping that will be the miracle solution to my problems.  So far though, my experience has been that the therapist seems to be validating everything she says or does, which has the effect of empowering her to treat me even worse, now I have to hear about how the therapist tells her that she has the right to talk as much as she wants about any issue regardless of whether our daughter is in the room (meaning I have to listen to her), that she should go out even more, when I feel she is already not home enough, etc. etc.  She has learned some stress techniques that she doesn't seem to be putting into practice yet.

She vents to me all day every day about past injustices with other people.  I try to validate and listen.  Often I strike some major positive thing in the discussion, only to see it implode 15 minutes later if I accidentally bring up the wrong topic, such as where we should live in 6 months.  She is currently raging at me today because last night after 5 hours of talking I made the mistake of suggesting we move to a place less expensive in 6 months.

This situation just sucks, is there any advice anyone can give me that might help?
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Daniell85
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2016, 03:56:48 PM »

What is her problem with moving to a less expensive place? Let's start, if you want, with the disregulation over your suggestion.

What did she say bothered her about it?

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leggomyeggshell
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2016, 04:03:15 PM »

Apparently, since she is from here, and it is a large city, she has snobbery regarding the area that I suggested we move to (which by objective standards seems like a very nice suburb).  She feels like every time she lives somewhere it is "taken from her" <-- her words.  I've asked her for alternative suggestions and she has none except telling me to figure it out on my own and that she's not living there (at the place I hypothesized).
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2016, 04:36:59 PM »

ah. my ex husband was that way. he's not the original reason I made it over to this site, but... .I will address stuff about him for myself at a later time.

He had live in Manhatten. A variety of nice places. He always insisted on living in the most exclusive areas of the town we lived in. The rent was double to live there. I tried to get him to see the long term, let's live somewhere more sensible so we can save for a house.

Nope. Not gonna happen. Never happened. He chose to live in a "better" place and didn't bother to pay child support as my son was growing up. The ex explained to me, he couldn't take care of himself AND pay child support. He pointed out that *I* did not deserve the support. It was for our son. State eventually caught up to him and he has to pay it now. My son is almost 23.

Aside from that little detour, BPD people often seem to make themselves a huge obstacle if you are trying to get directly in a straight line from one point to another.
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leggomyeggshell
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2016, 04:47:39 PM »

BPD people often seem to make themselves a huge obstacle if you are trying to get directly in a straight line from one point to another.

Someone on one of these threads recently mentioned that the BPD would probably get what they wanted if only they didn't complain about not having those things all the time... .  what a paradox.
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2016, 07:43:06 AM »

hi leggomyeggshell


It is absolutely true that it is very difficult to maintain a relationship with a person suffering from this disorder.  There are special challenges and problems that we all face.    BPD is a spectrum disorder and some of our partners are higher functioning, some lower.   

 The bad news is she hasn't changed much and still is a total pain in the ass.

Waiting for some one to recover from BPD is like waiting for someone to recover from diabetes.   Roughly speaking.    BPD can be managed with therapy, usually a great deal of it, if the person with BPD is highly committed and the therapeutic bond is effective.   That is why the focus here on the Staying Board is on you, as the Non Disordered member of the relationship to make every effort, be just as committed to creating a healthy relationship and to work the tools and lessons.

 Now she won't let me leave the house at all because she says she is so worried I will drink.

Hmmmm.   What do you think about this Leggo?    How is this playing out for you?    I picked this link out for you, go ahead and take a look.

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence


 I try to validate and listen.

Validation is good.   It is a skill that takes time to grow.   The flips side of the validation coin is boundaries and standing up for my core values. 

When I was first here a member said to me “twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to shape yourself to match her ability to understand/comprehend ends up with you terribly twisted in your own thinking and overly identified with her thinking.”   That rang all sorts of bells for me.   I was trying so hard to match her ability to comprehend or fix her emotional excesses I was twisting myself into a pretzel.  I needed to carefully and gracefully using the healthy tools provided here, stop.   And not be afraid that doing something that was good for me was going to cause an emotional deregulation.

what do you think?

'ducks

 

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leggomyeggshell
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2016, 11:10:18 AM »

Thank you babyducks, for your response.  With regard to the lessons, I Have been reading and trying them, but I do get impatient sometimes always being the one who has to accept being treated poorly.  It does help to know that it is possible for them to recover.  With regard to boundaries, I have always enforced them when the pwBPD went so far I had no other choice...   But with regard to everyday matters, she is something of a boundary buster.  Sometimes it does not seem worth it to get into a major conflict over something small, which is what will occur if I assert a boundary.  I can do it anyway, if I want the next few days to be filled with drama, threats, etc. and loss of extra cash.
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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2016, 08:11:37 AM »

  With regard to the lessons, I Have been reading and trying them, but I do get impatient sometimes always being the one who has to accept being treated poorly. 

Hi Leggo,

The Lessons say you should accept that she has a disorder that causes her to process life in certain ways and act in certain ways.  That's pretty much a given for all of us.   You can accept that the disorder is not personal.   

Being treated poorly is not something we should accept.   My partner does not curse at me, actually she doesn't curse around me because that is one of my boundaries.   She doesn't threaten me.    And she doesn't control when and where I go.   It took us a while to get to that point.  I had to carefully unravel my actions and her actions and think about things with the new information I learned here.   It wasn't easy.     When I said 'honey I am going to XYZ and I will be back at 8PM', I had to think about validating what I could, not validating the invalid and enforcing my boundaries.

The good news is it got easier over time.   Caving into placate her needs and to keep her emotionally calm is a bottomless pit.   If I kept giving up pieces of me to make her happy, I end up loosing myself.

The best thing I can do is carefully pick my times and battles and make the decision to make healthier choices.   She may follow me down the road to healthier choices, or she may not.   That's not my responsibility.   That's on her.

I need to take care of my needs.   Like they say on the airplane, put on your own oxygen mask first.   

would you like to give us an example of how she busted an every day boundary?   maybe we can offer some suggestions.

'ducks
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« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2016, 09:11:31 AM »

BPD people often seem to make themselves a huge obstacle if you are trying to get directly in a straight line from one point to another.

Someone on one of these threads recently mentioned that the BPD would probably get what they wanted if only they didn't complain about not having those things all the time... .  what a paradox.

'I want to complain about people who are always complaining about me saying I complain a lot... whats their problem?'>>blind to their own ability to answer their own question. Instead of seeing the answer to the question, they will claim they are being abused, and continue complaining rather than fix the issue.
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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2016, 03:06:31 PM »

  With regard to the lessons, I Have been reading and trying them, but I do get impatient sometimes always being the one who has to accept being treated poorly. 

would you like to give us an example of how she busted an every day boundary?   maybe we can offer some suggestions.

Even the most basic boundaries are met with opposition.  I have told her that I will leave the room when she starts yelling at me.  However, when I actually go to enforce it and she is dysregulating, she will punish me, for example, if I leave the room she will follow and tell me if I leave the room that she is taking everyone and leaving.  Often she will then go on to do this either way, whether I stay in the room and listen or not.  Naptimes, conflict free house, etc usually mean less to her than winning whatever point she is trying to make at that moment.  However, she seems to know not to cross the line too far.  Usually when she dysregulates there is not a lot of damage, except for me being scared and anyone else who hears it.  If it happens in public I run the risk of being stranded at the store if I walk away and it is embarrassing either way.
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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2016, 05:34:32 PM »

Nearly all boundaries will be resisted in this way, especially when you first start using boundaries as you are setting a new precedent of having them in the first place.

If they where easily complied with then it is unlikely you would have needed them in the first place.

Being prepared to cope with embarrassment or inconvenience as a result is part of it. These consequences are deliberately used to attempt to get you to back down. There is a lot of brinkmanship involved, but if you stay consistent it eventually goes from a raging storm to dead calm in an almost surreal way
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2016, 12:25:33 AM »

Thanks waverider.  Boundaries are challenging because validation for example seems to reduce conflict, because in a way you are giving in, at least in the sense that you have to at least listen to the person even if you may not want to.  Boundaries are like inviting a conflict into your living room which, if we are getting along that day it makes me not want to rock the boat.  Therefore I only think to assert boundaries when we are already not getting along.

I realized from reading this that maybe I am just scared of her dysregulations.  maybe it is an irrational fear as she tends to not cause much damage, it's just her threats to do harm are so scary if you will and for whatever reason I always believe she will carry out the threat.  She has called police and caused major drama many times though so I guess there is something tangible to worry about.
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2016, 04:26:34 AM »

Thanks waverider.  Boundaries are challenging because validation for example seems to reduce conflict, because in a way you are giving in, at least in the sense that you have to at least listen to the person even if you may not want to.  Boundaries are like inviting a conflict into your living room which, if we are getting along that day it makes me not want to rock the boat.  Therefore I only think to assert boundaries when we are already not getting along.

I realized from reading this that maybe I am just scared of her dysregulations.  maybe it is an irrational fear as she tends to not cause much damage, it's just her threats to do harm are so scary if you will and for whatever reason I always believe she will carry out the threat.  She has called police and caused major drama many times though so I guess there is something tangible to worry about.

Validation is a tool that can sabotage boundaries if we overuse it in a futile attempt at appeasement. Validation is like respecting their rights to a say and opinion, but it is not a right to a decision going their way. It can cause intermittent reinforcement if we alter our values and boundaries simply because crossing them is not causing intolerable conflict at the moment/this time.

This is often common when we make weak boundaries around issues that are not that serious anyway. Wishful thinking type boundaries
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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2016, 07:18:05 AM »

Thanks waverider.  Boundaries are challenging because validation for example seems to reduce conflict, because in a way you are giving in, at least in the sense that you have to at least listen to the person even if you may not want to.  Boundaries are like inviting a conflict into your living room which, if we are getting along that day it makes me not want to rock the boat.  Therefore I only think to assert boundaries when we are already not getting along.

I realized from reading this that maybe I am just scared of her dysregulations.  maybe it is an irrational fear as she tends to not cause much damage, it's just her threats to do harm are so scary if you will and for whatever reason I always believe she will carry out the threat.  She has called police and caused major drama many times though so I guess there is something tangible to worry about.

Validation is a tool that can sabotage boundaries if we overuse it in a futile attempt at appeasement. Validation is like respecting their rights to a say and opinion, but it is not a right to a decision going their way. It can cause intermittent reinforcement if we alter our values and boundaries simply because crossing them is not causing intolerable conflict at the moment/this time.

This is often common when we make weak boundaries around issues that are not that serious anyway. Wishful thinking type boundaries

leggomyeggshell, sorry to hear of your struggles. Everything you talk about is sadly familiar to me. This has been a useful discussion on boundaries, I think. A question for waverider and others:

It appears you are saying that by letting the small stuff go and only enforcing boundaries for the "intolerable" situations, we are only reinforcing bad behavior by our BPD partners. This reminds me of the "broken windows" theory in policing - used to clean up New York City in the 90s. The idea was that to overturn the atmosphere of lawlessness, you have to stop letting the small stuff go. By cracking down on petty crimes such as vandalism or fare evasion, you restore a sense of public order, which in turn helps prevent more serious crimes from happening. I may be simplifying, but is this the kind of approach you are advocating?

I know I struggle with this. Like leggomyeggshell I uphold boundaries by walking away when there are major violations. I let a lot of small things go, though. Rude, disrespectful comments and general snappiness, etc. This is generally because I am exhausted from conflict and feel like I have to pick my battles. Yet letting this stuff go only feeds into my resentment and perhaps is giving her the impression it's OK to treat me that way.

Does enforcing tougher boundaries on the small stuff over time help prevent bigger violations?

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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2016, 08:10:18 AM »

It appears you are saying that by letting the small stuff go and only enforcing boundaries for the "intolerable" situations, we are only reinforcing bad behavior by our BPD partners. This reminds me of the "broken windows" theory in policing - used to clean up New York City in the 90s. The idea was that to overturn the atmosphere of lawlessness, you have to stop letting the small stuff go. By cracking down on petty crimes such as vandalism or fare evasion, you restore a sense of public order, which in turn helps prevent more serious crimes from happening. I may be simplifying, but is this the kind of approach you are advocating?


No. The opposite

What I am saying is that you have to be clear that if you are going to have a boundary then it needs to be about something critical to your well being otherwise you wont stick to it. The "small stuff" you dont need boundaries. The problem is we often try to have half hearted boundaries about minor issues(these are the wishful thinking ones), which we dont stick to as they are not that critical. This type of intermittent approach to them means that we teach people that our boundaries are not firm, any of them. Hence it becomes difficult to enforce any boundary as we are not taken seriously.

By definition we need to be clear within ourselves what is important and why, along with the actual underlying reason. This is not always that readily apparent, as we jump on symptoms not causes.

Enforcing tougher boundaries on small issues makes everyone miserable, creates endless conflict and it simply becomes a power struggle. You can't use boundaries to mold people, only to deflect them away from your sensitivities.

Hence clear, concise and sparing used is most effective.

In your example the boundary of say thou shall not kill people, does not depend on whether the person killed is important to you or not, it is applied consistently once it has been determined that killing people is a no no, and needs a boundary prevention. Whereas a discretionary speeding ticket is not a boundary.
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« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2016, 08:19:09 AM »

I know I struggle with this. Like leggomyeggshell I uphold boundaries by walking away when there are major violations. I let a lot of small things go, though. Rude, disrespectful comments and general snappiness, etc. This is generally because I am exhausted from conflict and feel like I have to pick my battles. Yet letting this stuff go only feeds into my resentment and perhaps is giving her the impression it's OK to treat me that way.

Resentment is a big issue, and is the result of compounding frustrations that are not allowed to come off the boil before they are added to. It also fuels the next issue so that is bigger than it needs to be.

As you say, you can't fight everything, as its exhausting. Not engaging, not reacting is easy to say but hard to do until you get a level of acceptance that its not the end of the world. A lot of this eventually diffuses as you get better with the big issues and a new pattern of interacting develops to the point that the pwBPD doesn't feel the need to be defensive or finger point the same.

It may never go away completely but the amplitude often moderates, along with your ability to see past it.
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2016, 02:32:06 PM »

No. The opposite

What I am saying is that you have to be clear that if you are going to have a boundary then it needs to be about something critical to your well being otherwise you wont stick to it. The "small stuff" you dont need boundaries. The problem is we often try to have half hearted boundaries about minor issues(these are the wishful thinking ones), which we dont stick to as they are not that critical. This type of intermittent approach to them means that we teach people that our boundaries are not firm, any of them. Hence it becomes difficult to enforce any boundary as we are not taken seriously.

waverider, thankyou for clarifying. this makes a lot of sense. all i need to do now is correctly implement this stuff. easier said than done Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2016, 05:09:16 PM »

BPD people often seem to make themselves a huge obstacle if you are trying to get directly in a straight line from one point to another.

Someone on one of these threads recently mentioned that the BPD would probably get what they wanted if only they didn't complain about not having those things all the time... .  what a paradox.

That would be me. Haha
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« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2016, 06:03:40 PM »

Hi Leggo,

Your situation sounds so relentlessly crazy-making. I'm still a newbie to the world of BPD - but I've lived with it since childhood (my mother) so here goes... .

BPD runs in my husband's family - and he suffers from it. Four years ago he raged at me so badly and insanely that I finally decided to ask him to go to therapy. He knew it was bad and he agreed to go.  He has shown growth and change - but it only started after a good two years of therapy. His therapist was OK, not great. But he provided a very nurturing environment for my husband to learn to open up and to face himself - that was huge for him. So don't lose hope on therapy.

I started therapy fifteen months ago. That has made life so much better for me - I can surf the chaos of my marriage and my husband's family  better since I've learned how my actions and ways of seeing things were inflaming me inside and inflaming our household. I had to grasp my part (co-dependent or co-narcissist) and I've had to grieve the loss of who I wanted my husband to be. I had to find a therapist who was willing to believe that my husband could be truly mentally ill rather than someone who made light of my concerns and pain.

It sounds like you really want to try and improve your family life and your marriage. Looking back (and I still have a lot of looking forward to do too) I feel that there is an art to loving and making a life with someone with BPD. Being able to act/speak with compassion and assertiveness at the same time is as close as I can come to putting it in a nutshell.

Wishing you some peace!
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« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2016, 07:31:21 PM »

Thanks Daisy!  Your post made me feel a lot better.  I do want things to be good between us, and I actually think my wife does too, it is just that she is overcome with these impulsive verbal outbursts from time to time. As I was reading your post in fact, I received a text from her which started out normal/good, then out of nowhere I get this text that says "You know you can be a real ass to me I guess you don't care" then "I'm with Lisa f*** you" (Lisa was an ex of mine from like 15 years ago.  Then she put me on block (which I am happy about now as my response was not all that nice, but now she will never read it.  It seems she was mad because I did not respond quickly enough.  Sometimes you just cannot win with these people.
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« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2016, 06:51:50 AM »

I just have to say that "Leggomyeggshell" is perhaps one of the best sigs on this forum.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post)
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