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Author Topic: Tell me lies, tell me weird little lies that make you look even crazier...  (Read 504 times)
flourdust
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« on: January 26, 2016, 08:52:11 AM »

I've seen a lot of threads on here about pwBPD who are habitual liars. I've never thought of my wife that way. A serial exaggerator, sure. Distorter of memories, all the time. But liar?

Recently, I've caught her in a number of BPD-related lies. Here's the list of greatest hits.



  • She frequently claims to be suicidal, but backs down and says it's not true when I offer to call the crisis line.


  • She says she is suicidal and called the crisis line twice in the last few days. I checked the phone logs - no calls.


  • She claims to be cutting herself, but there is no sign of injury.


  • She claims to be abusing alcohol, but there's no evidence of drinking.


  • She told me she had recordings of me saying things that I hadn't said, then admitted she didn't have any recordings.




What is up with this? Sympathy ploy? Desire to say the most dramatic thing she can to get a reaction? General craziness?
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sweetheart
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2016, 09:06:43 AM »

flourdust with the exception of the last one its sounds to me like your w could be telling you how distressed she is feeling and how confusing the distress is to her so much so that she makes and retracts statements about it. She wants help, she doesn't want help. This indicates to me internal distress that is as confusing to her as it is to you.

I wonder if there might be another way around your responses here to help your w feel less conflicted .

Does she expand on the things you are supposed to have said?

What could you do differently?

I understand that the level of dysregulations that you are part of might be making you feel burnt out.  I'm a believer though that when it comes from a place of emotional distress all words convey more than just what is spoken. 
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babyducks
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2016, 09:35:11 AM »

Hi flourdust,

I'm normally careful about what examples I use here as this board is searchable from the public domain.   I do talk about this from time to time but change some of the details to protect the people involved.

So having said that,   I will also say there have been times my partner's illness has reached the stage where reality was absent.    In a maniac state reality wasn't just distorted,  it was gone.   At that point she believed she could communicate with forces not present.

What I was told was that her reality was real to her.  She believed she could communicate with the wind and that driving with the window down and her arm out would give her direction about which way to go.   Attempting to view her distorted reality through non disturbed eyes and make judgments about it wasn't particularly helpful to me.     If I kept looking for her behavior to be similar to someone who doesn't suffer from a mental illness and then try to explain and understand based on "normal " behavior leaves me frustrated and on the wrong foot.

Maybe that's what sweetheart was alluding to?  In a badly distressed moment react to the illness first,    I have found that is normally what I am dealing with.     Not  a deliberate attempt to manipulate me.    It's more frequently an attempt deal with their internal chaos.

I think all talk of suicide should be taken seriously.   

My two cents.
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flourdust
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2016, 09:38:47 AM »

flourdust with the exception of the last one its sounds to me like your w could be telling you how distressed she is feeling and how confusing the distress is to her so much so that she makes and retracts statements about it. She wants help, she doesn't want help. This indicates to me internal distress that is as confusing to her as it is to you.

I wonder if there might be another way around your responses here to help your w feel less conflicted .

Does she expand on the things you are supposed to have said?

What could you do differently?

I understand that the level of dysregulations that you are part of might be making you feel burnt out.  I'm a believer though that when it comes from a place of emotional distress all words convey more than just what is spoken.  

I'm disengaging. I'm not going to validate the crazy, and I'm not going to validate her destructive attempts to get my attention so she can heap abuse on me.

I do respond to suicide threats by offering to call the crisis line. I have called them once before, and the number is programmed into my phone.

I generally don't challenge her on her assertions (such as claims that I've said things), other than perhaps one initial denial. I don't show her the evidence that she's lying. Mostly, I am working on just not reacting to any of this.
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sweetheart
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2016, 10:08:47 AM »




Validation is still possible even when disengaging. Validation is about acknowledge the feeling behind the statement, it is not about colluding with 'the crazy.'

In what why can those responding to your thread help to improve things for you and your family?
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flourdust
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2016, 10:49:42 AM »

Validation is still possible even when disengaging. Validation is about acknowledge the feeling behind the statement, it is not about colluding with 'the crazy.'

In what why can those responding to your thread help to improve things for you and your family?

I suppose I wasn't clear about that. I'm trying to understand if these sorts of behaviors (the lying about SIBs, for example) are common, what they might indicate, that sort of thing. Basically, I'm trying to understand if this behavior is a precursor of even worse lies (such as making up stories of abuse) or just part of the normal BPD playbook.
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Scarlet Phoenix
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2016, 11:23:48 AM »

At the heart of BPD behaviours, there's the "feelings equals facts". My dBPDh has even openly stated this many times. "I just feel it, so it must be true!"

Consequently, facts are bent or "adaped" to the feeling, or to better describe the feeling. It might be that she feels very distraught, so she expresses it with "facts" that are dramatic. She might experience strong negative emotions and she doesn't know how to express them or what to do with them or why she feels that way. She might have a strong need to be rescued. Or something else. Talking about emotions, or just plain handling them, is extremely hard for someone with BPD. My dBPDh has been in therapy 1,5 year now, and he still have many moments where he dysregulates.

That being said, suicide ideation is serious. Contacting hotlines or 911 is a high priority.

Would you like to validate what she's going through?

Or would you like to put in place a boundary about this?

Or would you just like to understand what might be causing it/"lying"?

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flourdust
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2016, 11:50:46 AM »

I think you've clarified that I've conflated a few different kind of events in my list.

When she says "I'm going to kill myself" but then backs down when confronted with a concrete action (calling the hotline), she's expressing her distress in the moment by exaggerating or overdramatizing it. That's consistent with the other kinds of behaviors I've seen in dysregulation.

The other kind of event is making false claims about actions she has taken. "I've called the hotline twice." "I've been cutting myself." Those are things that didn't happen, but she makes those claims. As I'm thinking through it, I think there's an attempt here to break my boundaries or rules. If I have a rule that I call the hotline or offer to call the hotline when she's suicidal, then if she claims she's already called, perhaps she's trying to keep me from making the call so that I'll give her the direct attention she wants instead.
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sweetheart
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2016, 12:25:47 PM »

Hi flourdust,

I had a search around on BPD lying and distortions. I found this https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201112/why-some-narcissists-and-borderlines-lie

It's quite a comprehensive read that I hope you find helpful. It covers pretty much all aspects of lying in BPD and NPD.

See what you think.
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flourdust
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 12:53:26 PM »

Thanks for linking to that. These excerpts seem especially relevant.

Excerpt
Given that a BPD hallmark is interpersonal relationships that alternate between idealization and devaluation, the person with BPD may distort facts aimed at the person with whom they desire a personal relationship.

Whether through attempts to draw persons into [intense and rocky interpersonal] relationships or viscously attack another during episodes of the extreme rage associated with perceived abandonment-the borderline personality may use lies and deceitfulness to accomplish these objectives.

... .

Impulsivity and poor impulse control, he writes, means they may not consider the impact of their words before they speak. "In the moment, their desired objective, whatever that may be, takes such precedence over speaking the truth or behaving honestly that the potential consequences of their conduct are reduced to shadowy details."

... .

Some statements may be exaggerations, such as a woman accusing her husband of "strangling her" when he touched her neck.

... .

Lies may create drama and gain attention. One woman lied that she had been raped to get her boyfriend's attention when he had not been paying enough attention to her.

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Daniell85
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 01:55:27 PM »

Are you hoping to improve your communication with your BPD wife?

She is clearly in a very distressed state. From what I recall reading, you have taken on the majority of child care and indicated you are thinking of a way forward without your wife.

The lady probably knows, and is feeling the loss of child and probably you. I "get" why you would try and shelter your daughter from mom's abuse, at the same time, it looks kind of like parental alienation against your wife.

Is your stance one of protection of yourself and your daughter, with as little contact with your wife as possible,and how to get out of the situation, or are you interested in finding a way forward WITH your wife?

What are you wanting here?
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flourdust
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 02:35:16 PM »

I would love it if there was a way forward together, but I do not realistically think that is possible, and I've exhausted the efforts I'm willing to put forward to make it happen. She believes she is a victim and is unwilling to face up to her role in causing problems.

We are still married and living together, so I'm continuing to learn how and when to try to defuse problematic situations.

I don't see how anything I am doing is "parental alienation" -- can you say more about why you view things that way? Some of my wife's behaviors include venting to our daughter about how awful I am, my behaviors, how I'm forcing her out of the house so she'll never see D10 again -- I would call those parental alienation.

We will continue to need to communicate at some level, even if we are divorced, so L5 skills are never going to be irrelevant.
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Daniell85
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2016, 02:49:19 PM »

You can't see it? It's not in your words.

Am not saying what your wife is doing is ok. She is expressing her fears in unhealthy ways.

BPD is going to be hypersensitive to rejection. And a dad who redirects a child to a private meal in the basement with dad, without mom on a regular basis, while maybe being protective and well intended... .is going to trigger loss, feelings of abandonment, of being cut off from a primary relationship of mother and child. Pushed out, pushed back from it.

Essentially though your wife is being a pill and an aggrivating person to deal with, is being pushed out of the family unit. Family is now you and your daughter. Who is your wife? Someone you gave up on and are now living apart from with your daughter.

That being said, yes, your wife does have responsibility.







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flourdust
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2016, 02:56:04 PM »

BPD is going to be hypersensitive to rejection. And a dad who redirects a child to a private meal in the basement with dad, without mom on a regular basis, while maybe being protective and well intended... .is going to trigger loss, feelings of abandonment, of being cut off from a primary relationship of mother and child. Pushed out, pushed back from it.

Essentially though your wife is being a pill and an aggrivating person to deal with, is being pushed out of the family unit. Family is now you and your daughter. Who is your wife? Someone you gave up on and are now living apart from with your daughter.

 I'm not sure where this is coming from. I can think of one time when D10 and I were having dinner in the basement while we watched a show, and BPDw picked a fight with me when I came upstairs to get the food. There have been quite a few incidents where BPDw storms off from the dinner table or is too distraught to come to the table and wants us to bring her dinner in bed. There have been a couple of occasions where I've left the dinner table with my plate to de-escalate a fight.

Our daughter is stuck in the middle between us. I don't encourage this, but I understand how she feels -- she loves us both, doesn't want us to be fighting, and doesn't want to show favoritism. Sometimes she'll go with her mom when she runs away; sometimes she'll stay with me. I don't try to make a big deal about it.
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Daniell85
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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2016, 07:43:31 PM »

Ok, I thought I had read numerous times of you making and having meals separate from your wife, moving child out of contact with wife.

My mistake.
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flourdust
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« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2016, 08:23:39 AM »

Ok, I thought I had read numerous times of you making and having meals separate from your wife, moving child out of contact with wife.

My mistake.

Yeah, that's only been happening as a direct response to dysregulation. I'm sure it does add to her feelings of abandonment, so there's a vicious cycle element to it.
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2016, 09:35:07 AM »

My mother used to lie about things and when questioned, she would then adamantly claim whatever she said was true. She said that she and a neighbor had flown to Norway for a day. I think that was the biggest whopper. She didn't even have a passport.

She also made weird claims about me and things I supposedly said or did. I began to write these things off as a metaphor of what was going on in her emotional world. It was really difficult to deal with.

At one point, I involved Adult Protective Services and had them come for an evaluation, just so I had some of this behavior documented in case she tried to falsely claim some abuse on my part.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this from your wife, but it leads me to believe that her coping skills are very fragile at the moment.   
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