Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 28, 2024, 11:05:04 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
204
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: How do I help my 5 year old granddaughter?  (Read 492 times)
snozzberry

Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Posts: 7


« on: January 26, 2016, 04:03:20 PM »

 community! I've never done anything like this before, but I have been perusing the internet and cannot seem to find the answers/help I'm seeking.

My single mother daughter married a man a little over a year ago who, we believe, is text book BPD. I found/met with his ex (3 yrs married) and heard horror stories from her. At that time I just suspected that he was extremely controlling and had an anger problem, but she filled in many blanks and gave me the "Walking on Eggshells... ." book to read. In this past year, I have seen our daughter's personality change and worse than that, our 5 year old granddaughter's! She is much more emotional than she was, has gotten into the habit of pulling in her upper lip and sucking on it until it is red and chapped, says she "doesn't like daddy's house because there are monsters there" (they moved into his home), and has lost her unique "spark" (she used to be VERY outgoing and silly in nature). I have 2 other children with spouses and we all get together once a month to eat and let the cousins play. Every one of them have noticed the same changes in her, so that helps to confirm to me that I'm not just "looking for signs" after learning about BPD.

By posting, I hope that perhaps a grandma, cousin, aunt, etc. in the community will give me guidance as to how I can help counteract some of the damage that is undoubtedly being done to that little girl in my daughter's home. Her husband is the high functioning type (seemingly charming, outgoing and very capable to the outside world) so I fear that the likelihood of our granddaughter getting out of that home anytime soon is slim. From what I've read, it's up to the loving family outside the home to to as much damage control as is possible.

Last week I had her alone for 15 mins (we have her less and less often since my daughter married him) in which she told me that she wanted to live at our house "without daddy"... .so, that was telling.

Thank you for any help you can provide! 
Logged
thisagain
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 408


« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2016, 11:31:38 PM »

Welcome, snozzberry! I'm so sorry that you're going through this, but we're glad you found us.

The changes you describe in your granddaughter seem to me like red flags for abuse. We can definitely help you with emotional "damage control" as you say, but if there are other types of abuse going on, that may require a different response. Are you worried about her physical safety?

There are a lot of great resources here that can help you. Here's one thread I found that might be a good place to start: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=97979.0

Please keep posting and reading here! You'll find a lot of support and hope. I don't have kids or nieces myself, but I share your worry for your granddaughter and wanted to let you know we're here for you. Many members are in similar situations and will be able to offer you more specific advice. Hang in there.
Logged

Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2016, 11:43:25 PM »

Hello snozberry,

I'd like to join thisagain in welcoming you to our family 

It must be shocking when your GD says things like there are monsters at Daddy's house, not to mention her shift in demeanor. How do you respond when she says things like that?

Turkish
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
snozzberry

Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Posts: 7


« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2016, 02:12:34 AM »

thank you both for your warm welcome. @thisagain: the family does worry that there is possibly physical or even sexual abuse going on. something odd she did when she spent the night with us last month was to, while watching a movie with her grandpa and I, unzip her footed pajamas and stand stark naked in front of her grandpa shaking her hips back and forth (of course making him feel very uncomfortable). she has a silly side that emerges, albeit less than it used to, but we've never seen her do something like that. we're not therapists but it seemed very "off" to us. his ex said that they only had sex when she was unable (sick, etc.), otherwise he was usually uninterested, so I don't know... .our daughter has been living alone with her daughter for 3 1/2 of her 5 years. i can't imagine she wouldn't be aware of something like that going on and stand up for her/put a stop to it. she was our stubborn, rebellious child!

i will get to see our granddaughter tomorrow (YAY!). i plan to do some coloring with her while her mama is gone. i will ask her about those monsters and why she wants to live with us without daddy, trying to be as non chelant as possible. her mama (my daughter) tells me that they make it a habit to delve into the particulars of any visit she has away from home, asking her questions about what she did, who was there, etc. so i have to be careful.

:-/
Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2016, 02:55:57 AM »

Good that you have some more time with her!

Age-appropriate questions are best, and not leading, such as, "has Daddy ever touched you like this?" Let her talk. Better is something like, "why do you feel that way?" "what happened?"  It's unclear at this point to conclude sexual abuse, or if she's reacting to witnessing verbal abuse. If she trust you, and it sounds like she does, she'll open up, in language given her age.
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
thisagain
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 408


« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2016, 09:10:12 PM »

That sounds like a very wise and balanced way to approach it. Coloring is really helpful for kids to open up about things like that. Turkish's tips are also important -- especially if god forbid it turns out something happened, they'll always want to know exactly who said what and whether you suggested anything.

Please keep us posted! I'm so glad she has you and her aunts looking out for her.

BPD relationships can be very intoxicating and some non-disordered partners allow their reality to become very distorted. Sometimes patterns of abuse (whether physical or emotional) are much more apparent to those outside the home.
Logged

Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2016, 09:33:11 PM »

Journaling dates, times and what was said may be good too.
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
snozzberry

Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Posts: 7


« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2016, 05:03:16 PM »

Thank you all for your input. It helps so much. Even though I have read the "Walking on Eggshells... ." book, and it was very informative, I still feel a bit as though I were flying blind in regards to the changes I see in both my daughter and granddaughter and how to deal with/react to them all the while remaining calm as, presently, there is nothing I can do to change the situation.

I have another question for any of you who were the non-bp in the relationship. Can you describe the changes your personality went through when, looking back, your personality began to be altered by the BP? I ask because my daughter is verbally very positive about life, about her husband. Told me twice (in 5 mins.) that he bought her a very expensive purse; too expensive (this isn't like her to gush). Anyway, he bought her a manual transmission car after her's was totaled in a fairly minor rear end at a light collision. She's been driving it for over a month and is still scared to death of it. Scared of getting in another collision, scared of driving on any hill at all, scared of driving it in the rain, just scared. This girl used to be my stubborn, rebellious kid. She tells me over and over that her husband says she is doing really well (he's said it in front of us too) but she blames herself, saying, "I don't know what's wrong with me." "Why can't I get this?", "I have to get over this!", and yet, she struggles every single day. I tell her to get in it and just drive a big loop from her house, go several miles, and then back, but she won't do it. She had a great success the other day driving to the next town and back while I watched my granddaughter. She came back happy;confident. Yesterday she was "too busy at home to drive" and that confidence is gone today.

I'm sorry this is long, I just wonder if this is him changing her.
Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2016, 05:19:12 PM »

This certainly could be anxiety manifesting itself. Whether it is entirely valid or not is hard to tell. Like, did he devalue her or guilt her over the accident.

Yes, anxiety from walking on eggshells can certainly change a person to an extent. From what you said, it could not be the car at all, but she's taking her anxiety about "messing up" along with her, so to speak. Sounds PTSD-ish, almost (I'm not a therapist, that's just my impression).

Validating her may not be telling her what to do, or suggesting fixes, but to get at the root of her feelings and anxiety. Something like:

"I can see why you might be nervous driving a stick-shift. It was tough for me when I first learned, too... ." Etc... .empathize by sympathizing. It can help reduce her anxiety.

It seems like there is something complex going on in the family there that's hard to pin down. How do you feel? Have you been able to talk to GD again?
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
snozzberry

Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Posts: 7


« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2016, 08:30:48 PM »

@Turkish: '"I can see why you might be nervous driving a stick-shift. It was tough for me when I first learned, too... ." Etc... .empathize by sympathizing.'

I have definitely been doing that. I'm a very empathetic person by nature not at all a "ahhh, suck it up" kinda gal. ;-) Though I've empathized, sympathized and validated about 10 different times in the last 2 weeks, it doesn't seem to be helping. Perhaps it's the 3 hour conversation I had with his ex in November where she chronicled 3 years of emotional, verbal and physical abuse (with journal entries to prove it), but I just don't believe that he hasn't shamed or belittled my daughter in some way. She seems to be acting to me. There is something uncomfortably cheery/fake about her. It's almost as if she's trying to throw me (and herself perhaps?) off with statements such as, "He's a very good teacher"; "He can fix anything on it"; "He says I'm driving very well"; "He told me that if I don't like this car, he'll go right out and sell it and get me an automatic and he'll even be able to make a good amount of money on the deal!" And yet, she declines his offer and insists on "getting this"! She literally hates driving it and gets almost sick to her stomach but she won't take him up on his offer to get her a different one after over a month of driving it? Really? I don't buy it. Something just doesn't ring true to me about this. I probably should trust my gut more than I do.

In regards to my granddaughter, I tried to get her to talk that day. I've been told it's really hard with a 5 year old; hard not to lead them. She wouldn't say why she told me she wanted to live at our house w/out daddy. I talked to her about monsters and she said she heard wolves and bobcats (that those were the monsters). They do live with woods behind but they have two huge guard dogs that she knows would lay down their life for the family if something tried to get to their back door. Again, something didn't ring true there either. She didn't use to have those fears before moving in with him. She is spending the night with her aunt on Saturday, who plans to pick up where I left off and use coloring and/or stuffed animals to probe gently. She's going to ask her about her bruised feet that I noticed when she was at my house and was putting on her shoes. I couldn't ask because her mommy had just walked in.

And I agree with you that there is something complex going on that's hard to pin down. 
Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2016, 11:46:46 PM »

What kind of bruises were on her feet? What is the risk of asking your daughter?
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
snozzberry

Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Posts: 7


« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2016, 01:34:31 PM »

@Turkish: We can't figure out what the bruises are (her aunt and I). Her aunt had her overnight and gave her a bath and then painted her toes while she watched a Disney movie. As she was painting she asked her, "how did you get those bruises on your toes?" My granddaughter snapped at her, "I don't know; I'm trying to hear the movie!" in a tone that was unlike her and surprised my daughter. My daughter is thinking of asking her sister. We are just leery of doing anything at this point that might risk cutting off access to my granddaughter.  Also, earlier that day they played "animals" together (with various stuffed animals). She brought a little dragon that I just bought her and a large dinosaur that she's had for a while. She said he was the daddy and the dragon was the baby. At one point she killed the dinosaur with a little Buzz Lightyear laser gun. My daughter asked her why she killed the daddy and she replied, "to save the baby" but when she probed deeper, asking why the daddy wasn't safe, she said, "I don't know."

Yesterday was our monthly family dinner and it was interesting (not in a good way, mind you) to watch her bounce back and forth from playful with her daddy to being scolded by him and retreating to our staircase away from everyone to cry. Twice when that happened I went to find her and asked her what was wrong. She whispered to me each time, obviously trying not to be heard (I've never seen her whisper before; it used to be if she was upset, she'd let you know). She told me that she was afraid of getting in trouble with daddy.

So, this confirms our suspicions that there is something going on at home. We just don't know the extent of it when he's not controlling himself/putting on the "good guy act" for extended family. :'(
Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2016, 01:54:43 PM »

Hard to say about the bruises. She is 5, after all, kicking and jumping around. Did anyone take pictures to document?

This can be a tough age at which to communicate. My just turned 6 year old does the quiet whisper voice, too, when I ask him about certain things, or his new tactic is "hiding" himself by covering his face with his hands.

If this were my GD, I'd err to the side of not doing anything rash which may escalate conflict and make things worse for everyone, and keep being there for her and your daughter as you are able. Is this how you are feeling, regardless of your worry?
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
snozzberry

Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Posts: 7


« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2016, 02:12:02 PM »

At this point, yes. We're all taking notes and trying to see her as much as possible without it being obvious. He's a very suspicious guy (shocking, right?)

Her aunt did take a picture... .her toes were gorgeous, after all ;-)

Our guts are all telling us that our gd's home doesn't feel safe to her. She has given us multiple indications now. Add to that his 3 year history of verbal, emotional and physical abuse with his first wife with no therapy in between her and our daughter and it just stands to reason. I guess, for now, we're doing all we can.

Logged
thisagain
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 408


« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2016, 09:06:41 PM »

Hi Snozzberry,

You and your granddaughter have been in my thoughts lately. How has she been doing? And how are you doing?

I agree with Turkish that it seems best to proceed with caution and don't do anything rash that might end up driving your daughter away. Your granddaughter needs you and the extended family to model healthy behavior and validate her feelings. But you're very wise to document what's going on and stay vigilant for any signs that more serious intervention is warranted.

Hope you're all hanging in there okay! We're here for you 
Logged

snozzberry

Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Posts: 7


« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2016, 11:25:57 PM »

Thank you for checking in, thisagain! I appreciate it.

My daughter and mother of the 5 year old, just announced to us that she is pregnant with her BPD (undiagnosed but I'd bet money on it) husband's first child. Yay! I have to say I've been praying that they wouldn't be able to conceive.

Since my last post, I have been keeping a behavior notebook and have added more things to it. She has started making noises in her throat whenever she sits and reads with us. Sort of like humming but there is no tune and very few pitches. She continues to suck on her upper and lower lips and chews her nails. I bought a dollhouse and played with her a lot last Sun/Mon when she slept over. The home has a mom, dad, little girl and baby. She's definitely hostile toward the father. He usually dies somehow. Her aunt played animals with her a few weeks ago and the dad dinosaur was killed in that scenario too. She said it was, "to protect the baby". She repeatedly tells me she wants to live at our house "not daddy's house" or "I don't like daddy's house". Add to this, I found her naked on the bed she was sleeping on at our house rubbing her herself in her genital area.

So, at this point, I'm (we're all) praying that something big (but not too big?) happens to get her help. I want to scream at my once really good single mom daughter for not seeing the signs we're all seeing. And now to add a baby to this disaster... .and HIS own child not his wife's... .I believe with his mental issues it will undoubtedly worsen for her when another child arrives.  :'(
Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2016, 11:51:24 PM »

What does she say if you ask her "why does the daddy die?" Or maybe a better question would be, "what does the Daddy Dino do that the Baby Dino wishes he would die?"

I was in a better (if you could call it that, but legally it was) position a year ago with my 2 then 3 yo daughter. It's important to not ask leading questions,."does daddy touch you like that?" However, I think it's valid to ask, "why are you touching yourself like that?" Maybe, "does anyone else touch you like that?"

This is tricky, and I can feel your anxiety. I've been there. My daughter flat-out told me that "Uncle touched my butt." I could kick myself for not teaching the kids anotomically correct terms early, but we've since corrected that. She was referring to her vagina. She said it when I applied diaper cream to a redened area.

That being said, my T said that kids touching themselves is normal. My D didn't seem emotionally traumatized except when she made those comments.
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!