Can you help me interpret this conversation?

[ArleighBurke]

Sorry about the long post. Can anyone shed light on this conversation?

Me (40M), wife (40F uBPDw), 3 kids (11,9,6). Married 15yrs. I've known about BPD for the past 3yrs.

Yesterday was a Public Holiday. I said I wanted to take the kids to a local festival for a few hrs in the morning. Wife didn't come (it was too noisy, she doesn't like big crowds). We came home for lunch by 12. She asked me what I wanted to do in the afternoon - I said i was thinking of thworing the kids in the pool for the arvo and painting outside. I asked if she had any plans and she said no. About 1hr later (after lunch) she said she had some stuff to setup at work, and would i come with her to do it (she said it'd be a nice drive and we'd be back for swimming by 3). So we took 1 kid and did that. During the 20min drive I chatted with her.

When we came home we swam. I attempted to cuddle her from the front (in the pool) but she was uncomfortable. I said I was really happy that she came to bed and cuddled with me last night (it's been a long time since she'd done that). That it felt good. Then I moved away from her. Later I cuddled her (still in the pool) from behind. I said I could see she was still feeling uncomfortable with her - and was there a way I could cuddle her taht would feel better? She said no. I was stroking her belly button and she moved her hand over mine to stop the movement. I said I appriciate that she may feel <something> and that that's ok, and that if she needs me to touch her differently or give her space that it was OK - she just has to tell me.

My 11M son asked her about why she didnt' lose weight (it was in context - wife was explaining why she didn't sink in the pool). He was really nice about it. Wife explained she probably should but there were many factors, and we should feel OK with our bodies.

That night the kids went to bed at 8 and she sat in "her spot" on the lounge. I sat next to her. She put on a movie and was on her laptop doing work. I surfed reddit and made a few comments about some articles every now and again. At about 9:30 she put her laptop away... I immeditaely put away my device, and started talking. I talked about our daughter (who had a difficult time going to bed that night) and are we managing it OK? I then asked about the work she was working on - how it was progressing. I commented how much fun the kids had at the fectival that morning. All these got a sentance respone but not much. So then I talked about the movie and was trying to predict who would die... .At 10pm the movie ended and I said I was going to bed. This is a pretty standard night.

This morning, I got up before her. When she woke I was in the kitchen making my breakfast and the kids lunches. She came in and said morning, I responded and patted her on the bum. She made cereal, then moved into the next room back to "her spot" on the lounge. I ate my breakfast while helping the kids make their lunches. Then I went and showered and dressed. Again, very standard morning. I then went to her to say I was leaving for work - she blew up. 

She opened with "I'm so lonely - you don't talk to me. You've ignored me all morning". (perhaps she's lonely because she has no friends, no hobbies and no social life... .!) Previously she's told me that I'm not allowed to talk with her in the morning because there's not enough time, she's getting ready for work and in 'work mindest' already. Also, if she wanted to talk surely she'd have stayed in the kitchen with me to chat, or sat at the breakfast bar. I'm guessing that this feelign was left over from the night before. She is always on a device playing. She says that conversations with me are too slow, so she needs something to occupy her mind. So I've accepted that - I'll chat while she plays. But last night she was doign WORK or her laptop - not just a mindless game. And when she's working shes not part of the conversation - I've noticed this before - and raised this with her.

Other things she said in this mornings vent:

"You talk to me about stupid work stuff". I talk about work things from a "this is a challange for me" point of view - such as a moral dilema in signing something, or how to best deal with a subordinate. I said "I try to cover many topics, but most topics don't go anywhere - so I try different ones". She said "if you can see no conversation is working, you need to ask me 'Hey I see the conversarions aren't going anywhere - is there anything up?' "

"I have no idea what you feel.".  I have deliberately told her how I felt about a few issues in the last few months. I tried with 3 issues that actually had nothing to do with her - and in each case she took offense about my stance. I've then decided that telling her any feeling I have about her would be bad.

"You've given up". Probably true - I'm certainly close.

"I havn't come to bed at the same time as you for so long - you've never said anything about it so you musn't care". I know from history that if i say anything, she will obsess over it. If I said "I miss you comign to bed with me" she would imedaitely argue/justify why this was because of me. AND every night from then on she'd stress over knowing that my want and her action were different. I've seen this in many other instances. She's also flat out told me that she "knows everything I want - so don't her because that just makes her feel pressure". Also, I have not complained or even mentioned for a few months now the things that I miss about the relationship - because no matter now I phrase it ("I look forward to us doing... .", "I miss X", "I would like to X, how can we... ." - it always makes her feel guilty/pressured. So if I say things, she feels pressure, if I DON'T say things - she feels I no longer care?

"Are you just waiting for me to tell you the marriage is over?". Is she projecting? Is this her fear of me?

"You're checked out". I do often sit next to her with no idea what to say. I've exhausted all conversation lines and got nowhere.

"I cant remember the last time you told me I was beautiful". I texted her THAT MORNING about her 'hot buns' and a few days ago I told her I loved her smile.



It's been a while since a conversation has stumped me. But this one has.

    - Is this still a play to control me?

    - To blame ME for the things that she sees are wrong with her?

    - Is this her insecurity - seeing me be OK with life - enjoying it - in control - and she sees she doesn't have a life. Is she worried I'm preparing to leave her?

    - Or maybe I HAVE given up - checked out. I don't THINK so - I'm still trying to talk and connect. But I am SERIOUSLY emotionally detached - maybe too far. But I just don't care about so much of her feelings/drama any more.

Thanks

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[ArleighBurke]

I think I may be "emotionally starving" her by not buying into her arguements any more. Is this really a thing? It would feel almost like lieing to her to "fake" my emotion - well I'm not really faking it because I would really feel that, but i'd have to "fake" the strength of it... .

If this is a thing - what have people done to feed their BPD partner's emotions?

[Cat Familiar]

Well you have changed the dynamic by not buying into her drama as you did previously. It seems that displays of affection in front of your children are not currently working for her. It sounds like you were trying a variety of conversational gambits and she wasn't biting.

Keep in mind that pwBPD can have a separate version of reality that has nothing to do with the reality you're experiencing. She's not giving you credit for attempting conversation. And she does seem to have picked up on you detaching emotionally. (I'm at that point too, so I can't give you any helpful advice on that, but they do seem to notice.)

I'd suggest you keep on trying to give her positive feedback. And what might be helpful is to check out her Love Language. See my thread with a link to the test. It really explained a lot to me about why I felt so unappreciated when I realized that my husband and I speak quite different Love Languages. I know he has felt unappreciated by me too because I haven't supported him in the way he needs--like giving him as much quality time, verbal approval and touch. I had checked out emotionally because he is so lazy and does so little to help me--and that's how I feel appreciated--if someone lends me a hand, cleans up their mess, does something for me--and I got to the point where I realized that he ain't gonna do that.

[Cat Familiar]

You're probably a very analytical thinker, like I am. Sometimes my husband will get mad at me because I'm not emotional enough about something. For example, say politically--if I don't think some candidate is horrible enough--then he will accuse me of not caring. I do care, but I'm not going to get all worked up about it. It's totally out of my control other than my measly input at the ballot box. So why should I stay in an ambient state of anger, fear, annoyance, etc. just to mirror him? It's not worth it. He can go f* himself if he expects me to do that.

[ArleighBurke]

I know her love languages are notes and gifts. I have stopped doing either in the last few months. I think I stopped because everything feels one sided.  I don't feel like trying to make her feel good when I get so much crap in return. But i suppose if I try I'll get LESS crap... .

In re-reading my own post, I think she might just be feeling very unsure about the relationship. Depsite her and I not "connecting", I'm still functioning 100%, living my life, enjoying the kids, and not complaining about her to her. I can see how she'd take the opinion that I obviously don't care (or am planning to leave her). But damned if I do and damned if I don't... .

[TheRealJongoBong]

But damned if I do and damned if I don't

Yup.

The relationship is always about her, what makes her feel safe and secure at whatever cost. There is no compromise. Only her way.


IMO she's noticing that you aren't supporting her like you used to, that way where you sacrifice your soul and life to her. She thinks that since you aren't giving 110% to her anymore you're going to leave, so she's trying to reject you first. The method is to try to make you feel guilty for having your own emotions as opposed to living through her.

    - Is this still a play to control me?   yes, absolutely

    - To blame ME for the things that she sees are wrong with her?   yes

    - Is this her insecurity - seeing me be OK with life - enjoying it - in control - and she sees she doesn't have a life. Is she worried I'm preparing to leave her? yes

    - Or maybe I HAVE given up - checked out. I don't THINK so - I'm still trying to talk and connect. But I am SERIOUSLY emotionally detached - maybe too far. But I just don't care about so much of her feelings/drama any more.

You are trying to connect on a level on which there is a shared responsibility for the relationship, where you both have lives and support each other. But that's a problem, it's not all about her.

[ArleighBurke]

I find it very difficult having to look at her as this broken, illogical little girl. Is that the final shattering of my illusions?

Incidentally, during the conversation she also told me that we "had to talk tonight about this. I need YOU to think and come back to me about what to do". But when she came home she had a "big work problem" that she had to deal with rather than talk, and it took until 10pm. She then said "I know I talked about not going to bed at the same time as you this morning, but I'm not ready to go to bed - I'm sure you are - so go to bed."

No talk! 

[TheRealJongoBong]

I find it very difficult having to look at her as this broken, illogical little girl. Is that the final shattering of my illusions?

Sir,  I submit to you that you are finally starting to see clarity, that you are seeing your wife as she truly is. That is the first step in the healing process for you and your relationship.