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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: unblending our blended family due to his uBPD's unpredictable predictability...  (Read 1066 times)
SallyForth

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 5


« on: January 27, 2016, 01:47:21 PM »

I am so thankful to find this website, and message board.  I wish I had found it years ago, but I guess I thought I never would have needed it back then, but the manifestation of (his ex's) erratic behaviors over the years has finally lead me here. I have been reading through posts, and gleaning such helpful advice. 

I would love some insight regarding my issue, so I guess some background is helpful.  I am not abbv savvy so, I will try and do my best.  I met my Fiancé 6 months after my divorce.  He was also divorced a few months longer than that.  We have been together 4 years.  He is all of the traits you could desire in a partner.  My ex husband and him even get along! 

I have two sons 12 and 14 y/o.  Both on honor roll at school, and are well adjusted in life.

My fiancé has two children as well.  14 y/o twins (boy and girl)

when we met, we dated exclusively for a year before telling the kids or having them meet. In that time I learned in that year that his ExuBPD wife was a nightmare.  It started out with her calling to do odd household favors for him at her new home, running errands, kind of like treating him as if her were still at her beck and call as a wife. Looking back, she really played on his guilt (divorce, part-time dad) and played on his guilt of being deployed and gone often from home (military).  Once she found out about me it was the beginning of a nightmare.  She would call as early as 6a.m.on weekends he did not have the kids to provoke arguments that would last all weekend.  She would sabotage wknds for him with constant txts that often were about injustices she felt he dealt her in the marriage, or constant texts about the "poor children".

A year after dating we slowly introduced our children, then were 8, 10, 10, 10. Initially her kids liked me, said nice things about me, and enjoyed being around my kids. This is when his ex really started ramping up her disapproval.  She would call me disparaging names in front of her children, declare to them that my children were bad, accuse of my kids of being mean to her kids.  The campaign to ruin us had begun.  The texts starting fights (upwards on 100 on some days) then the frantic phone calls screaming at him about whatever he was ignoring on her txts.  I just figured she was having an unusually hard time adjusting to all of it (which I could understand! I was dealing with it with my ex too! Albeit sanely).His daughter slowly started showing signs of disdain towards me, even as I tried to win her over. 

IT became the norm for uBPD to have these outbursts.  They were only email, phone and txts. thankfully never showing up in person. 

Two years ago we moved in together and plan on getting married.  I was prepared to move forward with my fiancé because through all of this, he has maintained a level- head, weathered each storm she has cast at him, developed a great relationship with my kids (and even my ex).  In those years prior he also learned (with the help of a counselor, and trail and error) how to set boundaries, limits and expectations with his ExuBPD.  Needless to say, she fought kicking and screaming to not being the center of attention anymore. 

The week he moved in was when she ramped up the campaign to levels I have only heard nightmarish stories about.  Within two weeks ExuBPD claimed my son had been sexually inappropriate with her daughter, and now daughter didn't feel comfortable coming over.  ExuBPD refused to say why? But she did send an email saying that "she was going to seek professions to see what "action" need to be taken" (we took this as a thinly veiled threat to call police) so Fiancé took his daughter to lunch to infer as to what happened.  She claimed while the boys (then 10, 12, 12) were playing a competitive video game of Mario Kart, my son jumped up and did a victory dance when he won a round and part of his dance was some pelvic thrusting like Elvis)  Well, mom got ahold of that and went with it!  So, then his daughter is put in counseling, I have talk with my boys.  Since then, it has just gone downhill.

Since moving in together, our children spent time together every other weekend.  I have custody (and my ex has every other weekend w a Weds night dinner), and my fiancé has the same as my ex. 

Within weeks of moving in, it was clear that his ex was using the kids to try and persecute me and my kids, and him. 

We rarely have them on weekends anymore because his ex filed new court papers (divorce modification) saying she wants supervised visits when the kids are with their father, claiming he is unfit, and names my children and I in the document also, saying untrue things.  We didn't know what it was called then, but later we learned it is Parental Alienation (PA).  His son, through it all, enjoyed at our house, and at one point declared he wanted to move in with us.  It was within a month after that he suddenly was afraid of his father and didn't feel comfortable with him! She even called the police on him once! (long unfounded story)  Although the ex still insist he see the kids, have them at our house, have overnights here, take them to practice, out to eat, etc... .  She still has the pending court case demanding "supervised visits".  My fiancé has since blocked txts, phone, and all email.  He has opted to purchase OurFamilyWizard, and bought his ex a subscription too.  She was so out of hand, and now the constant threats have somewhat subsided.  She carefully words her messages now, and mostly uses the kids and parental alienation to punish my fiancé now.


  Since the first time his ex tried to threaten action against my son, I have been very leery of blending our families.  I gave it a chance after that because his daughter was in counseling (later diagnosed w a mental disorder and on meds now).  After that chance, his daughter has had several uncontrollable outburst.  Some in front of my kids.  My fiancé is not allowed to discipline, or his kids call their mom to get rescued.  Discipline has included being sent to rooms to cool down, relinquishing cell phones, and devices, being grounded from video games, etc... .  They throw fits and call their mom (reason above when police were called) Even his seemingly happy son is now enmeshed with his mothers antics.  It is heartbreaking.

My fiancé loves his kids, and is crushed at the thought of what is happening to them.  They are both in counseling now, and he is actively part of it.  They are on their second counselor (this one an actual Ph.D. picked by my fiancé), and one who believes in PA.

MY QUESTION (yes finally!) is this:  I want to UN-Blend our families. Is this possible to do and stay together as a couple? My kids like, and respect my fiancé, but my kids are sick of this. I am too!  The little time they do see their soon-to-be step siblings it is on egg-shells!  Are his kids going to txt their mom and disparage mine if they get into a small argument? show up w/ the police again?  I worked with my ex to have our weekends switched to de-conflict visitation and so they are not together.  I do not want to be around the kids either for fear they will misconstrue something I say or do.  They seem to have their own reality. 

Is it possible to have a "family" where he see's his kids, in our house on his weekends, without me or my kids here?  HAs anyone successfully done this.  Will his kids ever be able to be here without their mom butting in?

I have lost hope, especially when I read that the BPD will never stop harassing their targets.

Just re-reading this makes me feel like I am crazy... .:'(

any helpful advice appreciated... .  thanks for listening to my long winded rant... .




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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2016, 03:07:22 PM »

Hi SallyForth   

You're not crazy!

I have been through much of what you described. I didn't have any children of my own when DH and I first got together (we now have a newborn) but that certainly hasn't stopped uBPDbm (undiagnosed BPD biological mom of my step-daughter) from running a PA (parental alienation) campaign against us. We've had the cops called on us I think 4 times. uBPDbm has filed 3 restraining orders against us all on bogus charges of us doing drugs, trying to kidnap SD, being alcoholics. We've had CPS show up at our house twice, one claiming we did drugs and the other claiming DH sexually assaulted SD. It has been a very rough ride for us.

It's good that your fiancé switched to Our Family Wizard. We did that almost two years ago, and it really cut down on the stress not to receive constant raging texts, emails, phone calls.

I feel you about the ex undermining your parenting. My SD11 does the same exact thing that the twins are doing. If we discipline her then she has an EPIC meltdown and tells her mom that we were abusing her. It is so frustrating, and it is really starting to hurt SD11's academics (because homework seems to be her trigger). I just said to DH the other night... .it has gotten to the point where being with SD isn't fun anymore. But it seems to ebb and flow.

We have had MANY talks with SD11 about not feeding into her mom's fights. We tell her that what we want is for us all to cooperate as parents. We stress over and over that WE DO NOT WANT TO FIGHT. Then we try to explain to her her role in everything. So far it hasn't been working, but I think if we got a professional involved then it could be explained better. What does the kids' T say about the situation?

The answer to your question about alternating the kids schedules... .If you think that would help the situation then try it for awhile and see how it goes. Is it going to stop BPDx from making crazy allegations against you and ramping up the twins' emotions? Probably not. At least you'll get to enjoy the time you get with your kids instead of dealing with the drama. If things cool down, maybe you can re-blend them a bit. It really would be good for the twins to spend time with your "normal" kids and see what normalcy looks like. Remember that they permanently live in crazy land and it can be very confusing for them.
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SallyForth

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2016, 04:39:08 PM »

Thunderstruck,  Thank you- I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

When you say you have had police and CPS involved my heart just races.  I feel so bad for you, because my biggest fear is my biological kids life going from what is a pretty "normal" life after divorce situation, to being dragged into a "unstable childhood of CPS investigations and police being called type of life-style.

The oddest thing for me to wrap my head around is the fact that she is doing this to her own children purposefully!  It leads me to believe she would do worse to mine, if given the chance.  That is why I do not want my kids around my fiancé's kids at all; or me for that matter.  The uBPDbm seems to be gunning for us all, and since de-conflicting my kids and me from the situation, she has less to work with.  She has also in the past eluded to my fiancé being an alcoholic, and drunk driving and scaring the kids.  it never seems to end... .  I felt like we were the only ones until I read your reply... .sigh.  my heart goes out to you.

As far as results from counseling? The first T has "counseling" credentials, and had diagnosed SD with a disorder (not sure how much I should divulge on here and is on meds for it), yet somehow things only got worse with that counselor, whom uBPDbm is quite fond of.

My fiancé found a new T who has a PhD, and specializes in disorders like SD's.  She also believes in PA.  He has met once with her discussing issues, and each child SS, SD, have met once with her and continue to go.  He used to drive and pick up kids to and fro appts, but now uBPDbm likes to say the kids are afraid to ride in the car with him to appointments so she MUST drive them or they can't go. And his kids go along with this?  Yet he can take them out too eat or go shopping or to practice, and they are ok!

Even with therapist involvement for going on two years now (albeit SD only goes twice a month), we still cannot brooch the subject of rules at our house because when they get upset, they refuse to abide by them, and call their mom.  Mom then says father is abusive etc... .tells the kids that, they repeat it disrespectfully to him... .cycle repeats again and again.  So, not sure Therapy helps if the uBPDbm is an active enabler.  I wish we had an Ebb and flow.

Keeping my kids out of the fray has helped tremendously so far them and me, as they are not exposed to any meltdowns, nor are they fodder for the SD14 and SS14 to "report back" to their BM anymore. 

We had spoken to them, especially SS, about tattling, and reporting back to his mom.  Our kids could have the littlest disagreement in the past and SS/SD would report back to their mom saying my kids were being jerks.  That was fodder enough for the uBPDbm to start raging rants to fiancé.  Unblend=less fodder

I think you are right about re-blending them at some point when things cool down.  I think we should wait until after the latest of her lawsuits is over?

We were really hopeful for SS14, he really iked hanging out wiith my boys.  We had him here for 1/2 of Holiday break, he really missed my boys, but uBPDbm kept texting him until he said he was "homesick" and wanted to return to mommy's 3 days early.  (yes, he (14) calls her mommy).  She was also on OFWizard explaining how he wanted to go home so badly, practically demanding it.  sigh... .SS has not been back since, an is now "scared".  It is bizarre

I just fear I am also teaching my kids about unhealthy family dynamics by living a split life? 

On a positive note, the last 4+ years have taught me so much about being a "good ex-wife".  Living the Hell of uBPDbm's antics really helped me see how important it is to our kids to set aside differences and be pleasant and flexible and work with one another to continue to raise the kids.  We even exchange Christmas gifts, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).
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Panda39
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2016, 09:05:46 PM »

Hi SallyForth  

I wanted to join Thunderstruck and welcome you to the BPD Family.

I officially second it... .you are not crazy.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I have been dating my SO (significant other) for 5+ years and have also witnessed PA and have had his daughters be pretty rotten towards me in the past too.

I, like you dated my SO for a year before meeting his daughters (they did know of me).  My SO was separated and going through an ugly divorce that would take 2 years to complete   My son met my SO when I did and has naturally developed a friendship over our time together.  

During the separation my SO's daughters spied on him, read his text messages, went through his closet and reported everything back to their mother... .even reported what was in the refrigerator    I was very angry about it, honestly I was angry about a lot of things back then and I absolutely did not trust those kids or their uBPDmom (undiagnosed BPD mom).

Then there was the "Phone Incident".  My SO was talking to his ex on the phone and was frustrated with her so when he hung up he threw the phone into the couch.  That became throwing the phone so it shattered, then it became the girls were not allowed to call their mother, and then it became he blocked the door so they couldn't leave and then it became an emergency filing with the courts for child abuse.  My SO showed up to court on the appointed day and guess who wasn't there?  The terribly concerned (for the wellfare of her kids) mother.  She told the court she was ill.  Where was she really? Getting a mani/pedi with the youngest daughter     What the kids didn't understand was that by going along with mom's exaggerations they risked not seeing their dad at all. (They were shocked to learn this later) My SO told his story and it was determined that abuse was unfounded but that he should see a therapist for "anger management".  The therapist quickly learned that there was no anger issue.

My SO's daughters were also receiving therapy through a therapist that mom chose and who bought mom's BS.  The therapy with this person was so good that D13 (now D15) ended up inpatient psych for suicidal threats.  This therapist luckily for D15 moved her practice to another city and although uBPDmom promised to "follow her to the end of the earth" D15 started going to another therapist that "gets it" and has been really helping D15 negotiate her mom.

When I finally did meet my SO's daughters they were not friendly and although I was friendly I was wary and I was also hurt by them.  I didn't want them around my son either if they could so easily throw their own father under the bus what kind of accusations might they make about the son of someone they didn't like?

When the divorce was final and the dust settled my SO ended up with majority custody so things changed for us all of us.  It has taken time but things are really good these days I have a good relationship with my SO's daughters D15 & D19.  Several things have gotten us here.  Time, patience on my part, maturity of the girls, therapy, healing and forgiveness.  Unfortunately the other piece of the puzzle is that their mother has done things to the girls that has also driven them away from her.

I can almost describe my journey in holidays... .

X-mas 1st year my SO spent with me and my son

X-mas 2nd year to we spent with our own kids (SO and his daughters had a strained tough time)

X-mas 3rd year my SO wanted to invite my son and I but I was rejected by his older daughter so separate Christmas again

Thanksgiving 4th year daughters and uBPDmom fiasco both girls reaching out to their dad for support

Thanksgiving 5th year... .Thanksgiving together!

Okay so this is where I stop telling my story... .just wanted you to know that you are not alone many of us are in the same boat with you, I bet we could have our own "crew team"  .

So what should you do?  I think your instincts are good keep the kids separated until you feel comfortable trying the mix again.  I think protecting your kids while all of this is going on is a good idea.  Patience on your part, boundaries around the ex and Dad needs to keep fighting for his kids and his rights. Also, be sure that the two of you spend time together with no ex & kid talk.  Keep the team strong  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) There you have it... .my 2 cents  

One more thing be sure to check out the links in the box to the right --> each topic is a link to more information.

Again Welcome,

Panda39
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bravhart1
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2016, 12:59:28 AM »

The worst mistake I made when getting involved with my now DH was not undertanding the tremendous stress and damage that one person can have on so many others. My DH's exgf is BPDm to SD7.

I have two of my five children still living at home. I try to keep them as far removed from all this BPD drama as I can, but  unfortunately all it did in the end was to separate me from my own children in numerous ways. We are working on rebuilding but it's been painful for all of us to realize I made some huge judgement errors allowing my family, thorugh me, to get pulled into this mess. Your instincts are right on to protect your children first, and yes, the ex will do and say unspeakable things to your children with no remorse or guilt. If she can justify what she does to her own child, she won't think twice about yours.

My SD was only three and really needed a lot of attention and I somehow thought everyone would be ok. I gave more to my SD than I did my own children, or myself. She was in such dire need. But I was wrong. I am no good to anyone in the poor health I am in now, and my own children resent the drama and stress, and loss of funds all due to the BPD in our lives.   

Do what you have to do to protect your children and your self. I used to think there was no way I was going to let BPDm run me off. But four years later, no end in sight. Hundreds of thousands of dollars later(no that's not a typo) and now a debilitating illness. I am not so sure I would have made the same choices. Or at least like you I would have tried to mitigate the damage the BPDm could do to us all.

I love my DH, and my SD very much. I don't think you could find fault in my dedication.

But the cost is very high and Im still waiting on the reward to arrive. There is no part of my life that looks remotely familiar to me anymore.

I would have, should have, kept SD and her mothers drama away from my kids at all costs, I would have continued to live separately, and let my DH figure out how to deal with his ex. before allowing us all to be in the same house.

Yes, we've had it all, CPS, police, false accusations of every nature. She even bullies us online.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this, but I think your instinct is right. I think you are CRAZY not to think this.

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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2016, 02:21:44 AM »

Sounds like a completely bogus accusation against your son. I don't blame you for keeping the kids apart. Protect your own. As painful and frustrating as it is, not to mention tremendously stressful on your r/s, shielding your kids from any possible hints of accusations is the right thing to do. It wouldn't hurt to keep a journal. Back-Date it.
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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2016, 03:28:42 PM »

Hi SallyForth,

Excerpt
I want to UN-Blend our families. Is this possible to do and stay together as a couple?



How does your fiance feel about what's going on, and what does he think about unblending?

Excerpt
My kids like, and respect my fiancé, but my kids are sick of this. I am too!  The little time they do see their soon-to-be step siblings it is on egg-shells!  Are his kids going to txt their mom and disparage mine if they get into a small argument? show up w/ the police again?  I worked with my ex to have our weekends switched to de-conflict visitation and so they are not together.  I do not want to be around the kids either for fear they will misconstrue something I say or do.  They seem to have their own reality. 

I wonder if you can try something halfway, where the schedule is such that the families are not blended, yet you can still get together for events in public. Like a short dinner. Or some clearly defined structured event. It might also be worthwhile to get you and the kids into family counseling to talk through some of these issues. Bill Eddy says BPD people aren't just difficult people, they're the most difficult people. Learning skills to protect your boundaries while also minimizing conflict can be helpful whether your families are blended, kinda blended, or not blended. Your kids need to see how adults handle abuse, and the more they see you leading in this space, the more prepared they will be as young adults when they come across similar types of behavior.

I wouldn't wish a BPD parent or co-parent on any child, though I will say that there are a lot of opportunities to learn advanced skills when it comes to dealing with difficult people.

There's a theory about kids being either "orchids" or "dandelions," with the former being more emotionally fragile and sensitive kids who are very susceptible to their environments, and the latter being very resilient kids who seem to handle stress in stride, and may not bloom quite as brightly like an orchid given the right kinds of interventions. Hope that makes sense. I mention it because the disposition of my kid has determined a lot of my decisions. He's definitely an orchid (BPD dad, so likely a lineage). If your kids are resilient, they may be able to handle the dysfunction as long as they have some adults helping them with skills. It takes a lot of strength to not be emotionally injured in these BPD relationships as an adult, so kids are going to struggle even more. Your responsibility is first and foremost to them, and this doesn't necessarily mean going silent -- it just means deciding as a family how best to integrate. It might be a weird blend that doesn't look anything like what others have, and somehow together you can make it work for you.
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2016, 12:00:32 AM »

This is all so familiar. BPDh's kids all were hating on their Mom when I met them, and it was actually ME who told them they needed to forgive her(for her infidelity, which wasn't technically their business anyway), but have boundaries with her. Because they kept telling me how toxic, and crazy she was. Well, she is all that, but as soon as they started contact with her again, she launched a hate crusade against ME, and life has been hell since then regarding BPD's kids.

Granted they are all adults now at ages 30, 27, 26, and 22. His youngest was 16 or 17 when we met and started dating, and my kids were 11 and 14, I think.

I've been lied about, BPDh blamed me and never stopped demanding I apologize(when I hadn't done a dang thing wrong), and I did, only for them to gloat, and two of them flat out ignored my apology. BPDh thought that would "cure" everything, but of course it didn't. They want control of him, and their Mother is stirring the pot. Apparently Parental Alienation isn't just with "children".

BPDh now has grandkids he isn't allowed to see, and he's only recently taken a stand against, "Ceruleanblue can't be around our kids, but you can come". BPDh kept saying "give it time, I'll work on them", and I'd be left home, hurt and wondering why he allowed all this. He's finally worked through that no amount of time would ever be enough, and he got sick of them saying I couldn't be around them or their kids. THEY are making him make a choice, but they say they are not. They are using the grandkids as pawns, and teaching them these bad behaviors.

I'm a good person, and even used to do foster care. I've raised two kids that have never been in any trouble. It's just crazy to me that BPDh's kids will take their kids around their crazy mother who stabbed their father more than once, but call ME toxic? Okay, that's some serious messed up stuff there. They even let crazypants Grandma have overnights, but I can't be around for a cordial visit?

I think a lot of this really triggers BPDh's depression and rage. He used to blame me, but since the "apology", and a therapy session his daughter insisted on, where she acted hateful to me, he's stopped so much of the blame. He even says we've done all we can do, and it's now up to them.

I wish I'd never tried so hard with them. I wish I never actually had to deal or see them again, but of course I'd never do that to BPDh. I can be cordial to them, if they ever do decide to come around again. Two of his three daughters have told BPDh to stay out of their lives and to not contact them. The third daughter will see him, but not allow me around, and BPDh just took a stand about that.

I wish I'd know BPDh had BPD/NPD, and that his kids all have traits. Plus, I knew his ex was difficult, but I didn't know she'd turn the kids on us. His son is the only one who ever gave me a fair shake, and just lately he's starting to sound like his sisters. I'm sure he's pressured by them and his Mom, and it's hard being the last holdout. "

I felt sorry for BPDh for having such a crazy ex, and we commiserated over having former spouses who were abusive. Now, he's flipped to the other side of the triangle, and he's pretty much treating me the way I think his ex used to treat him. He hid his disorder from me.

I wish I'd known all this would become such a hot mess. None of this is what I thought I was getting into. It's been hard on MY kids, and it's been hard on me. It's also been hard on BPD to lose his kids, but HE could have done more about that.
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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2016, 10:41:58 AM »

Dear Sally:  

Yes, unfortunately the story that seems to you to be nightmarish is quite common for many of us!  Reading your description, I am grateful I did not have kids during this ordeal.  

That said, I have been with DH for 9 years, and things are mostly okay at this point.  We also dealt with false CPS allegations, for us against the kids' favorite grandma.  Totally heart-wrenching and painful for DH's mom and for the kids.  

We have dealt with allegations against me, my mom, dh, various out-of-town house guests.  It got to the point where we had to warn our friends and the kids friends parents that mom would probably make some kind of allegation against them... .so be careful!

What changed?  First, really good counselors for both girls and for us.  Second, a really good parenting plan, so she had less power.  Third, her making a few huge mistakes--a DUI, her threatening another parent at SD15's school, so she was kicked out of SD15s graduation.  A few things that let others know that it was her, not us that was creating the problems, so we no longer have to sound defensive to explain things, but rather get to be the good guys by being empathetic regarding her mental illness.  And we truly are empathetic.  

Somehow, we stopped being so reactive.  We stopped changing our plans because of her threats.  We stopped reacting.  We just realized that it was baloney.  That when she got the kids to claim abuse, the counselor explained that BPD mom was mentally ill.  That when the kids came to our home during that time wrecked and full of anger at us, we just said, "We will always believe you when you tell the truth.  We trust you guys." And so SD11 (at 8) told the truth, that mommy promised her a bear if she lied.  

We have the fortune of living in a small town where we are well known.  Over time, her stories just get less traction.  We also have the fortune of attending a school where everyone knows the kids and all the parents really well.  So over time, others just understand what is happening.  We help that to happen by not getting so drawn in to the drama.  A big realization for me was that her "crises" were mostly fluff and hot air... .and yes, a call to CPS can be hard and traumatic, but ultimately, it is just fluff.  There is no REAL crisis.  It is a real crisis if the kids ARE being molested. It is painful to see mom's emotional abuse of the kids, but in the end, the best we can do for them is to understand why mom does this, to help the kids to see that, and to let them know we love them.  For the BPD mom in our family, the real crisis happened 40 years ago, when she was locked in a closet and ritually abused.  SD15 is almost 16, and just starting to talk to me about her feelings about mom... .noticing she has a ton of shame, and exploring messages mom has given her, and she trust me to talk with her about possible reasons why mom is like that.  that trauma often results in black/white thinking, that she then sees people as bad when she wants them to be different.  The kids are starting to unpack their experience.

Ultimately, what changed for us is that our when we stopped reacting, she stopped pushing buttons.  She still does mean stuff when we do positive things--when I started a new non-profit, when we recently decided to move to a better home... .she still tends to throw a wrench in the gears.  But mostly, she knows we will just ignore it.  

I think I would have moved out long ago if I had kids of my own.  And, I would have moved out myself if it was not for my step-kids, with whom I am very bonded.  We had TONS of PA, but in the end, the kids love me anyway, and I would never betray that hard-won trust, what they have sacrificed to be close to me.  I am probably the person they trust most in the world.  Still, I have considered living in a separate home, but still being involved with DH.  

As for your situation, here is my two cents worth:





Do you and your DH have a good counselor?  Counseling can help to give perspective to the crazy events.  



What can you do to get some perspective?  Get less entangled in the drama, emotionally.  See the silliness in it.  That will help the kids.  It has with our kids.  Our senses of humor have grown over the years, such that we have two hilarious kids! We talk about the seriousness of this all, validate the kids confusion and hurt and anger, and then we laugh and realize it is sort of silly when mommy acts like a kid.  Not invalidating the harm done, but putting it in perspective.  



Make a choice that is really good for you, and ignore BPD's reaction to it.  We realized at some point that she is in it for the conflict, not the result.  So if you do not conflict, she eventually stops.  At least that is true for us.  It can be a long wait.

I think you have to look not at what is likely to happen if you and DH separate your child rearing but stay married.  Your situation is not the norm, and your solutions will not be normal. They will be creative, unique, and what you are suggesting is a testament to the love and trust you have in each other, which gives you so much more a change of success.  Most people would just split up.

Will you succeed?  Who knows.  But what you will learn by doing the work to give it a try will be profoundly useful to you, in your relationship and beyond. For this to work, you both need support of counseling, family, and friends.  Make sure you have those.

For us, we have reached a point where things are mostly good, and BPD mom is often kind to us, tho also crazy.  Mostly, we just hang in there for her drama, and it is not too bad.  That said, yesterday she pulled a doozy on us, and we were terribly upset.  So we are not immune, but just mostly empathetic and grateful we are not in her shoes.  We have some real choice about how we are affected by her, and we use it to do our best to turn our feelings of powerlessness into an awareness of how powerless she must feel to be so coercive.  No need to make our distress bigger than it is--at least we are not being locked in a closet and abused on a daily basis.  How bad can it be? [/list][/list][/list]
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SallyForth

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 5


« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2016, 11:44:39 AM »

Hello again,

It has been awhile, and I wanted to update.  First I would like to thank you all for your help, advice, sharing, and empathy.  This has been absolutely harrowing to go through, and all of you have helped me gain perspective of what a crazy situation we are in.  It is literally the definition of crazy!  It's so hard to get a bearing on the constant flood of BS hurled at us, but by reading posts here, it seems to ground my sanity.

My fiancé has continued to take his son and daughter (both 14) to the PhD Psychotherapist,  and had to sit through one session with his uBPDxw! (not fun)

Last week fiance took ME to a session with the PhD so we could discuss my role in this, and so I could learn ways to help the kids when they are at our house.  **Fiance's uBPDxw threw a fit  on OFW emails, and emails to the PhD that I attended a session without HER notification, including her demand that I not be there unless both children are in attendance also, AND that Fiancé and I get our OWN counselor if we are going to attend together.

  I think from what I read in other's posts, that her flood of BS, and controlling behavior comes out when she feels out-of-control?

Anyway, the PhD started our counseling session out with thanking me for coming, and mentioned  that the Ex (who also threatened to show up!) informed PhD that was not going to show up.  Thank God!  I remarked how relieved I was-PHEW!  The PhD then said something I will never forget-  She said "I was under the impression that "the ex" likes you and has NO problem with you? at least that's what she has conveyed to me in the past, is this not true? !  I let PhD know that indeed the ex DOES hate me, and has demonstrated it over that last 5 years over and over again by giving examples, including the lawsuit.

I guess I need to find the humor in this? right? 

Our session was productive, and the PhD was happy to have met us together, and our goal was "How do we integrate fiancé's kids into our home, and dispel the crazy fears, ideas, and paranoia that BM instills in their heads and gets them spun up before visits"? 

I know most of you have to deal with a flood of crap from the BPD's before visitation weekend.  My question is how do you dispel the fears the BPD's plant in their heads?

Fiance's kids have come to our home a few times since starting counseling and have spent good weekends here.  He takes them out every Wednesday and has had successful evenings with them too, but ex still  insists kids are scared of him?   

What can we do to help the kids relax here better under the circumstances?  We try to keep things simple, easy, and light and funny, avoiding any mention of their BM (so they don't feel they have to defend her) but I feel it's so shallow and they can't really relax ad let their hair down.  Is this a normal feeling?  like eggshells?

I have continued to keep my children out of the fray until things get better.  The uBPNxw has told D14 and S14 that I keep my kids away because I said they are bad kids with poor behavior and I am protecting my children from them (as told to me by the PhD)  I assured the PhD that my children were pulled out because of BM's behavior and threats against them and PhD agreed I did the right thing.

  So, that being said do we have any way to let his kids know why my kids really are not going to be around till things get better?  It's their mom's threats, not them? 

The sad thing is that reading posts on this site make me realize it will never end, and we need to get really good at sifting through her BS and learning what to respond to and what to ignore.

Till then we just await the date for Court.   

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livednlearned
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 12731



« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2016, 01:17:11 PM »

Did the Phd give you ideas about how best to help the kids when they are at your house?

Excerpt
My question is how do you dispel the fears the BPD's plant in their heads?

How do they express these fears with you and your fiancee? Do they bring up their fear or is it more something that shows up in their body language? Are there certain things that happen around the time they begin acting scared?

Excerpt
What can we do to help the kids relax here better under the circumstances?  We try to keep things simple, easy, and light and funny, avoiding any mention of their BM (so they don't feel they have to defend her) but I feel it's so shallow and they can't really relax ad let their hair down.  Is this a normal feeling?  like eggshells?

What would happen if you asked them, "Hey, you two seem tense. What are some good ideas to help you unwind? We're going to do x, and you're welcome to join us. If you have other ideas, let us know."

My guess is that the eggshells feeling comes because they have demonstrated they are effective proxies for mom's accusations (the false sexual allegation). So in that sense, yes! Totally understandable that you feel eggshells. No one wants a lawsuit built on false allegations.

Have you read Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison book about techniques to deal with parental alienation? Craig Childress, Phd also has a lot of good material on his website, to help understand some of the BPD psychology disordering the kids.

Normal rules don't apply in these situations. It's good you have a Phd to talk to who understands PA. I can't know exactly what I would do in your situation, but my gut says that it's important to help those kids develop a sense of their own thoughts so they aren't as enmeshed with their mom. Validation is the skill to help with that. And, where appropriate, being very clear that there are boundaries you are willing to enforce when someone violates them. Your kids were accused of doing something, and the repercussions are harmful. You are protecting them from false allegations and until there are some guarantees that they kids are safe from those allegations, no more blended visits. Or something like that?

In other words, I would walk that fine line between validating how the kids feel, while also swiftly dispelling any notions their mom puts in their heads.
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