Help co-parenting twins with UXBPDw

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Every once in awhile I get really stuck and find this website the best to turn to for answers.  I appreciate all the different viewpoints I can get.

That being said... .I have twins D7,S7 and have been divorced for 6 months after a year long divorce.  During the period of the divorce and after the divorce, my UXBPDw has been extremely damaging to the kids.  The child therapist recently reported her twice to CPS and at every visit insists I go back for custody.  The T feels horrible for the kids and all the trauma that mom is causing. Despite all the mental and verbal abuse she is causing the kids, the worst damage that nobody really recognizes is the parental alienation she is projecting at our daughter about me.  I recently read Coparenting with a toxic Ex and the book was incredible at describing all the stuff my UXBPDw does with the kids.  My UXBPDw fit the description of about 95% of what the author stated a toxic Ex does.  Anyhow, we have gotten to the point now that D7 regularly screams and yells at me.  During my parenting time she spends more time screaming and yelling at me then she does a normal conversational voice.  If she doesn't get her way, then she kicks, bites, slams doors, screams, and I could go on.  If I send her to time out she won't go.  If I pick her up and move her to time she immediately goes limp, falls to the ground, and says I hurt her.  I have told the therapist that I won't even touch her now.  I'm afraid to because she goes straight back to mommy every time and says that I am hurting her.  I can take privileges away but she could care less.  D7 at only 7 years old takes no responsibility for any of her behavior and hates me more than anything else.  She will call mom almost every night crying for her to come get her. To the untrained this would appear simply that daughter and mom have an extremely close bond but I don't believe that to be true.  I am leaving all the details about our marriage and details post separation but I will just sum it up by saying that mom was charged with domestic violence, assault, and has been reported to CPS 4 times.  Investigated by CPS twice. 

Anyone want to provide insight into my situation and how to move forward?

[justaboutdone]

Every once in awhile I get really stuck and find this website the best to turn to for answers.  I appreciate all the different viewpoints I can get.

That being said... .I have twins D7,S7 and have been divorced for 6 months after a year long divorce.  During the period of the divorce and after the divorce, my UXBPDw has been extremely damaging to the kids.  The child therapist recently reported her twice to CPS and at every visit insists I go back for custody.  The T feels horrible for the kids and all the trauma that mom is causing. Despite all the mental and verbal abuse she is causing the kids, the worst damage that nobody really recognizes is the parental alienation she is projecting at our daughter about me.  I recently read Coparenting with a toxic Ex and the book was incredible at describing all the stuff my UXBPDw does with the kids.  My UXBPDw fit the description of about 95% of what the author stated a toxic Ex does.  Anyhow, we have gotten to the point now that D7 regularly screams and yells at me.  During my parenting time she spends more time screaming and yelling at me then she does a normal conversational voice.  If she doesn't get her way, then she kicks, bites, slams doors, screams, and I could go on.  If I send her to time out she won't go.  If I pick her up and move her to time she immediately goes limp, falls to the ground, and says I hurt her.  I have told the therapist that I won't even touch her now.  I'm afraid to because she goes straight back to mommy every time and says that I am hurting her.  I can take privileges away but she could care less.  D7 at only 7 years old takes no responsibility for any of her behavior and hates me more than anything else.  She will call mom almost every night crying for her to come get her. To the untrained this would appear simply that daughter and mom have an extremely close bond but I don't believe that to be true.  I am leaving all the details about our marriage and details post separation but I will just sum it up by saying that mom was charged with domestic violence, assault, and has been reported to CPS 4 times.  Investigated by CPS twice. 

Anyone want to provide insight into my situation and how to move forward?

[sweetheart]

Hi justaboutdone,

The situation you describe sounds upsetting and understandably difficult to navigate.

What struck me about your d's behaviour was the similarity to the dysregulated acting out that we have all witnessed in a pwBPD. Of course children of your daughters age act out in the way you describe because they do not have the emotional language to convey just how conflicted they must be inside. There are ways that you can help her do this.

I found this link about ways of responding to you daughters behaviour https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/peaceful-parents-happy-kids/201307/5-steps-help-kids-learn-control-their-emotions

The other thing for me that is seriously hindering your attempts to get your daughters behaviour back to baseline is her being able to phone her mum. I get that she wants to phone her mum, but what it also creates and reinforces in that moment is a good/bad split. You will always be cast as the bad guy if this continues. I wonder if you could discuss with your d's T a way to put some boundaries around this that will support you more in trying to help your daughter. Obviously in the short term if you do change the phone situation your d's behaviour may get somewhat worse before it starts to improve.

[Thunderstruck]

We have been having the same problem with my SD11 for a few years now. I just posted about it a few weeks ago:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=288640.msg12717732#msg12717732

I got some helpful responses in that thread. Maybe something will resonate with you.

Unfortunately, I don't have the magic answer to resolve this. SD11 just had another acting out meltdown just this past Monday night.  :'(  And of course every time she complains to her uBPDmom, who says we are abusing SD11.

I got the book Parenting a Sensitive Child (I think that's the title) and I'm hoping there will be insight in there. We also are pursuing primary custody, and if/when that is awarded we will get SD11 into T. I think a nice structured routine would do wonders for her.

On Tuesday I was in the grocery store with SD11. She said to me ":)o you think I'm a sensitive child?" (from the book). I said "I think sometimes you get overwhelmed by your emotions". She said that she thinks she learned it from her mom, who gets overwhelmed with anger. It was interesting to hear this insight from her, but I can tell you four years ago (when she was your D's age), she would have never understood such complex thoughts.

[justaboutdone]

The other thing for me that is seriously hindering your attempts to get your daughters behaviour back to baseline is her being able to phone her mum. I get that she wants to phone her mum, but what it also creates and reinforces in that moment is a good/bad split. You will always be cast as the bad guy if this continues. I wonder if you could discuss with your d's T a way to put some boundaries around this that will support you more in trying to help your daughter. Obviously in the short term if you do change the phone situation your d's behaviour may get somewhat worse before it starts to improve.

I completely agree about the phone.  But my parenting order says that I have to be able to allow her to call mom anytime she wants.  Unless we go back to court and get that changed?

[justaboutdone]

We have been having the same problem with my SD11 for a few years now. I just posted about it a few weeks ago:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=288640.msg12717732#msg12717732

I got some helpful responses in that thread. Maybe something will resonate with you.

Unfortunately, I don't have the magic answer to resolve this. SD11 just had another acting out meltdown just this past Monday night.  :'(  And of course every time she complains to her uBPDmom, who says we are abusing SD11.

I got the book Parenting a Sensitive Child (I think that's the title) and I'm hoping there will be insight in there. We also are pursuing primary custody, and if/when that is awarded we will get SD11 into T. I think a nice structured routine would do wonders for her.

On Tuesday I was in the grocery store with SD11. She said to me ":)o you think I'm a sensitive child?" (from the book). I said "I think sometimes you get overwhelmed by your emotions". She said that she thinks she learned it from her mom, who gets overwhelmed with anger. It was interesting to hear this insight from her, but I can tell you four years ago (when she was your D's age), she would have never understood such complex thoughts.

Great post and appreciate all your thoughts.  My UXBPDw withdrew consent for the T to treat our kids but according to our parenting plan, she must go through the family physician before a change can be made in mental health professionals.  The family physician knows what is going and recommended the kids go back to the T.  But UXBPDw still disagrees with family physician so the process is taking a lot longer to sort itself out but meanwhile the kids aren't seeing any T.  The T was extremely helpful every week to rejoin the kids affection for me and undo all the damage my UXBPDw did in the past week.

I can only hope my D7 will see what damage my ex is causing.  At this point, I can't see the light at the end of that tunnel but your post about the grocery store comment gives me hope.

[ForeverDad]

The child therapist recently reported her twice to CPS and at every visit insists I go back for custody.  The T feels horrible for the kids and all the trauma that mom is causing... .I will just sum it up by saying that mom was charged with domestic violence, assault, and has been reported to CPS 4 times.  Investigated by CPS twice.

Frankly, why not listen to the therapist?  Courts can require a waiting period before you can return to court, often a year.  But if there is urgency as it appears here then it can be an exception to the standard process.  Even if you can't get custody immediately, you can ask for emergency or interim custody while the case makes its way through the process.

My UXBPDw withdrew consent for the T to treat our kids but according to our parenting plan, she must go through the family physician before a change can be made in mental health professionals.  The family physician knows what is going and recommended the kids go back to the T.  But UXBPDw still disagrees with family physician so the process is taking a lot longer to sort itself out but meanwhile the kids aren't seeing any T.  The T was extremely helpful every week to rejoin the kids affection for me and undo all the damage my UXBPDw did in the past week.

The longer you wait to stem the 'bleeding' the more time Ex has to continue undermining your child's perceptions, conclusions and actions.

I can only hope my D7 will see what damage my ex is causing.

She's just a child.  Her depth of understanding is limited.  And though the T and you can help 'reset' her perceptions then Ex just starts in on her all over again.  She is so young that intense emotional manipulation can overwhelm her sense of logic and common sense.  This reminds me of a story related in Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison when a 5 year old girl hugged her grandmother, whispered "whatever I say I mean the opposite", pulled away and then started shouting "I hate you!".  That was the child's way of coping with the intense pressuring.  Of course, the risk is that over time a child can be convinced of the blaming.  That's a risk you face.

Decades ago there was an attempt to recognize Parental Alienation (and Syndrome if the alienation is successful) by Richard Gardiner but it always got a lot of pushback by the medical health community.  There's a thread here about Dr Craig Childress who more recently has approached PA from a different angle, that it's an attachment issue and a form of child abuse and that strategy may succeed where Gardiner failed since those are already recognized concepts.  Maybe you, the T and your lawyer can look into this more recent perspective to bolster your case seeking custody to limit the damage to your daughter.  If you can get emergency or temporary custody during the case then more help for your daughter will start sooner.  And if you can get an interim order then try to get modifications to the ordered phone contact.

[justaboutdone]

I think I will go back and watch this video www.youtu.be/brNuwQNN3q4 ... .again.  He explains it so clearly.  In regards to labeling PAS as child abuse, I recently read Co-parenting with a Toxic Ex by Amy Baker.  :)r Baker along with Dr Childress both feel strongly that this behavior is considered emotional abuse and the fix is to the remove the parent from that parent away from the child.  I could not agree more with their viewpoint.

BUT... .the lawyers and court in Ohio do not label any parent with PAS except for in the extreme case where the parent physically removes the other parent from the child's life.  So, how does one move forward with a PAS case in a conservative state?

[ForeverDad]

Then stick with the behaviors and behavior pattern and link that with their approaches.  It doesn't matter whether they believe PA or PAS as long as they see a need to intervene.  You try what you can IMO.

If the T asks you to file for a change, then would the T testify?  If not, can you get an experienced Guardian ad Litem (GAL - lawyer representing the children) who can then consult with T, CPS and other professionals make recommendations to the court?  You need to get something done before too much more damage is done and before Ex manages to find a way to get the T fired or released.  Ex won't stop trying so better to do what you can while you have T on your side and available.