SPOUSE is walking on eggshells...

[Depression = 72% of members]

Soo... .any time we try to accomplish a task together, he gets impatient with the task if it isn't going well and lashes out at me.  The last time this happened, I validated "I know this is frustrating for you... .it's frustrating for me, too.  I wish you could moderate your tone with me, though."

This resulted in a heated discussion wherein he basically said that I "overreact to everything" and that "nothing he ever does is good enough for me" (meaning, basically, why can't I just accept the way he lashes out at me?) and that he is "constantly walking on eggshells."  Serious gas lighting, because this IS exactly what goes on in our house, only in exact reverse.  He overreacts to the smallest thing (such as me asking him not to snap at me) and I am walking on eggshells not to set him off.  He feels like he is walking on eggshells when he has to try to censor his thoughts and not say horrible things.  That's not walking on eggshells.  That's just being a decent person.

I said, "Help me to understand what you mean.  Can you give me an example?"  (Because, I am telling you, our relationship has reached the point where I am careful about everything I say to him, to the point where there's basically a 3-second delay where I vet everything I think before I say it.  And I mean, everything.)

And he said:  "I can't give you examples.  I'm not a lawyer like you (he throws this in my face aaaaallll the time) and I can't remember specifics and give you a power point presentation full of examples."

And I said:  "I understand... .how about just one?  I want to address and work on what you're saying, and it would help me to have an example of what I've said that made you feel this way."

And then I had to leave on an errand, and an hour later, he texted:  "I guess it's just that I think negative things about me, and I assume you do, too."

This is SO CRAZY.  How can he go from speculating that maybe I share HIS negative thoughts, straight to saying "Nothing I ever do is good enough for you, all you do is criticize me" and BELIEVE IT when he's saying it?  This is the main thing I can't understand about dysregulation... .it's not the terrible or crazy things he says, it is the fact that he BELIEVES what he is saying when he gets this way.  He MEANS it.

It's like the logical part of his brain gets completely hijacked until he calms down.  Completely.

[earthgirl]

Soo... .any time we try to accomplish a task together, he gets impatient with the task if it isn't going well and lashes out at me.  The last time this happened, I validated "I know this is frustrating for you... .it's frustrating for me, too.  I wish you could moderate your tone with me, though."

This resulted in a heated discussion wherein he basically said that I "overreact to everything" and that "nothing he ever does is good enough for me" (meaning, basically, why can't I just accept the way he lashes out at me?) and that he is "constantly walking on eggshells."  Serious gas lighting, because this IS exactly what goes on in our house, only in exact reverse.  He overreacts to the smallest thing (such as me asking him not to snap at me) and I am walking on eggshells not to set him off.  He feels like he is walking on eggshells when he has to try to censor his thoughts and not say horrible things.  That's not walking on eggshells.  That's just being a decent person.

I said, "Help me to understand what you mean.  Can you give me an example?"  (Because, I am telling you, our relationship has reached the point where I am careful about everything I say to him, to the point where there's basically a 3-second delay where I vet everything I think before I say it.  And I mean, everything.)

And he said:  "I can't give you examples.  I'm not a lawyer like you (he throws this in my face aaaaallll the time) and I can't remember specifics and give you a power point presentation full of examples."

And I said:  "I understand... .how about just one?  I want to address and work on what you're saying, and it would help me to have an example of what I've said that made you feel this way."

And then I had to leave on an errand, and an hour later, he texted:  "I guess it's just that I think negative things about me, and I assume you do, too."

This is SO CRAZY.  How can he go from speculating that maybe I share HIS negative thoughts, straight to saying "Nothing I ever do is good enough for you, all you do is criticize me" and BELIEVE IT when he's saying it?  This is the main thing I can't understand about dysregulation... .it's not the terrible or crazy things he says, it is the fact that he BELIEVES what he is saying when he gets this way.  He MEANS it.

It's like the logical part of his brain gets completely hijacked until he calms down.  Completely.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[HurtinNW]

I think its awesome that he has the insight to know he was just thinking it... .and to take accountability for it! My boyfriend rarely has that insight. I wonder if you can validate this. Maybe it is something you can build on?

[waverider]

What he is experiencing is a form of delusion, parania and projection. We try not to use the term "gaslighting" here as that is a pop culture term taken from a movie which depicts a criminal yet sane mind deliberately trying to con someone into believing they are insane for financial gain. pwBPD are not what we would call "criminal yet sane mind",even though it may seem so sometimes.

[earthgirl]

Waverider,

I didn't know that about the use of the term "gas lighting" -- I've seen it used in many discussions about BPD, including by some psychologists.  I'll keep that in mind for future reference on this site, though. 

[earthgirl]

HurtinNW,  I think that's a great point.  He *did* have self-awareness with that.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I will try to go somewhere with that.   

[Cat Familiar]

I "overreact to everything" and that "nothing he ever does is good enough for me" (meaning, basically, why can't I just accept the way he lashes out at me?) and that he is "constantly walking on eggshells... .I can't remember specifics and give you a power point presentation full of examples... .Nothing I ever do is good enough for you, all you do is criticize me."

I've heard this screed word for word so many times. And my husband is the lawyer in the family.

It's so funny when he accuses me of "overreacting" because I'm so unemotional. He even gets mad at me for not getting upset about things he thinks are worrisome--like politics, wars, climate change. He's welcome to be Don Quixote tilting at windmills and raging at what's wrong with the world. With things that I can actually influence, I do what I can, but to dwell in a constant state of anxiety because the world doesn't match your beliefs of how things should be--no thanks.

Having grown up with a BPD mom, then married two BPD husbands, I've perfected the poker face. So much of the time it's not only pointless, but counterproductive to express what I really think or feel. I've gone through the grief stage that I don't have a partner who can behave like a fully functioning adult. Now I'm in the beginning of the Radical Acceptance stage and counting my blessings for the economic freedom and latitude that comes with this relationship. I still complain, but I'm not as bitter and angry as I was when I first landed here a year ago.

I will second HurtinNW because your SO does seem to have some self-reflective ability. That's often sorely lacking with my husband. At times I can find humor in the situation. I do think it's remarkable how often others seem to be having nearly identical experiences with their pwBPD. It's quite a challenge to not get overwhelmed by the disorder.   

[EmotionalWarfare]

Earthgirl,

You already show amazing insight and understanding.  I'm sorry to hear of another person dealing with a BPD S/O because it is such a difficult life at times.  But I am truly glad you're here sharing your experience.  Your s/o is lucky to have you.  It's the positive, insightful individuals like yourself that make this site so valuable.  It's great your s/o can reflect and own some degree of the illogical thinking and outbursts.  My s/o does this at times also.  It makes me feel a bit crazy at times tho.  Because I find myself wondering how sometimes she can be closer to good emotional health and other times fall completely off the map.  Good job handling things like you did.

Cat and WR,

I love reading your posts.  You both seem so connected and in control of your emotions.  You both have amazing insight and a seemingly endless supply of patience and understanding.  My emotions lately are such a roller coaster ride lately.  I am trying so hard.  I am going thru big changes now myself and need a little support. (Career change)  It's for the best but tough being 45 and having an uBPDw.  It's difficult because I often could use some support but my uBPDw often twists the most positive events into negativity or to be about her.  So much push/pull, you're going to leave me, you're going to get a new job and a new 24 yr old wife, I know that's what you want. etc, etc.  I just need a little peace and some room to pull myself together but it's times like these that are the most difficult.  I do my best to validate, remain upbeat despite her attacks and assertions but my patience reserve is less than usual.   I'm so glad I have found this site.  I am hoping to soon arrive at the radical acceptance stage.

[Cat Familiar]

It's great your s/o can reflect and own some degree of the illogical thinking and outbursts.  My s/o does this at times also.  It makes me feel a bit crazy at times tho.  Because I find myself wondering how sometimes she can be closer to good emotional health and other times fall completely off the map. 

My emotions lately are such a roller coaster ride lately.  I am trying so hard.  I am going thru big changes now myself and need a little support. (Career change)  It's for the best but tough being 45 and having an uBPDw.  It's difficult because I often could use some support but my uBPDw often twists the most positive events into negativity or to be about her.  So much push/pull, you're going to leave me, you're going to get a new job and a new 24 yr old wife, I know that's what you want. etc, etc.  I just need a little peace and some room to pull myself together but it's times like these that are the most difficult.  I do my best to validate, remain upbeat despite her attacks and assertions but my patience reserve is less than usual.   I'm so glad I have found this site.  I am hoping to soon arrive at the radical acceptance stage.

EmotionalWarfare,

Thanks for your kind words. Rather than being on a roller coaster, when I first arrived here, I was furious. I felt so duped that once again, I got sucked into a relationship with a BPD. Unlike some people's spouses, the BPD remained dormant for several years and I  thought I had at last found my soulmate. Then when the sleeping BPD awoke and I realized what I had gotten into, I was p!ssed.   

My husband can seem very emotionally healthy, especially in front of people he wants to impress. I kept having faith that the smart, rational person I fell in love with would return to inhabit his body permanently. But alas, we know what BPD means, so I'm grateful when that part shows up intermittently. But, probably like you, it took a long time for me not to get totally blindsided when the crazy showed up unexpectedly.

I know exactly what you mean when you say that your wife twists positive events into negativity or to be about her. So many times I've tried to share something that brings me joy only to have my husband rain on my parade. It's really hard too when you need support and they don't have your back.   

I post here when my patience is dwindling and it always seems to help. Even reading someone else's posts that mirror my situation makes me feel not so alone. Having good friends to talk with is also helpful. I know that women are more likely to share their feelings  about relationships than men, but I think that is changing with the times. Everyone needs confidants who are trustworthy and wise. Also exercise and activity really make me feel better, even when my husband is being a butthead. Having a sense of humor really helps too. That's something that my husband really seems to lack. I love to laugh and I will laugh at the most stupid and silly stuff. I'm not an elitist when it comes to humor.

[EmotionalWarfare]

Cat,

My uBPDw does this too.  She is high functioning.  She acts so kind, considerate of complete strangers or with her co-workers.  They all think she is great.  Which I am happy for her but it also is quite disturbing.  Our 19 yr old daughter went to work with her about a year ago when she was 18.  (Bring your kid to work day)  She (daughter) came home wide eyed and later proclaimed to me what a different person mom is at work.  She went on to say how positive, helpful, and kind she is.  My daughter asked me "why can't mom be more like this at home?"  Then daughter went on to say "The people mom works with would be shocked to see how mom acts at home."  This made me so sad.  Sad that my daughter feels this way, sad that this is the mother I have given her and sad that she feels less important because she saw how wonderful mom is to people who should matter less in her life.  It is quite maddening and torments my emotions to the point where I feel I'm about to have a breakdown.  It hurts me deeply to see the hurt in the eyes of my daughters.  I have a very close relationship with them both.  (both daughters)  My daughters have also grown up to be amazing, smart young ladies with no signs of  BPD.  I have always made it my top priority to protect them (especially from their mother) and have always done 99% of the parenting, raising, talks, coached their soccer teams, been their co-op parent for school events,etc.  I am a very active in their lives and am a compassionate, loving parent.  My girls are my world and I try to give them as much stability as I can.  Honestly, my daughters have no idea how much they help me too.

Every which way you slice it having a s/o with BPD is so difficult.  I find myself discouraged quite often lately.  I am a pretty strong person mentally and believe I can make it thru most any circumstance.  What is a big help often is knowing that the given situation is temporary, there's ways to fix it or make it better.  But the condition of my wife is not temporary.  It's ongoing and ever changing.  It requires so much giving on my part.  I know you all can identify with this.  Sometimes, just once in a while, I'm starving to be allowed to be the taker, but with no strings attached, no expectations, no "look at what I did for you, aren't I great?"  I'd like to be genuinely cared for out of 100% healthy love and compassion.  That's all.  It's a lonely life for sure.

[waverider]

Cat,

My uBPDw does this too.  She is high functioning.  She acts so kind, considerate of complete strangers or with her co-workers.  They all think she is great.  Which I am happy for her but it also is quite disturbing.  Our 19 yr old daughter went to work with her about a year ago when she was 18.  (Bring your kid to work day)  She (daughter) came home wide eyed and later proclaimed to me what a different person mom is at work.  She went on to say how positive, helpful, and kind she is.  My daughter asked me "why can't mom be more like this at home?"  Then daughter went on to say "The people mom works with would be shocked to see how mom acts at home."  This made me so sad.  Sad that my daughter feels this way, sad that this is the mother I have given her and sad that she feels less important because she saw how wonderful mom is to people who should matter less in her life.  It is quite maddening and torments my emotions to the point where I feel I'm about to have a breakdown.  It hurts me deeply to see the hurt in the eyes of my daughters.  I have a very close relationship with them both.  (both daughters)  My daughters have also grown up to be amazing, smart young ladies with no signs of  BPD.  I have always made it my top priority to protect them (especially from their mother) and have always done 99% of the parenting, raising, talks, coached their soccer teams, been their co-op parent for school events,etc.  I am a very active in their lives and am a compassionate, loving parent.  My girls are my world and I try to give them as much stability as I can.  Honestly, my daughters have no idea how much they help me too.

Every which way you slice it having a s/o with BPD is so difficult.  I find myself discouraged quite often lately.  I am a pretty strong person mentally and believe I can make it thru most any circumstance.  What is a big help often is knowing that the given situation is temporary, there's ways to fix it or make it better.  But the condition of my wife is not temporary.  It's ongoing and ever changing.  It requires so much giving on my part.  I know you all can identify with this.  Sometimes, just once in a while, I'm starving to be allowed to be the taker, but with no strings attached, no expectations, no "look at what I did for you, aren't I great?"  I'd like to be genuinely cared for out of 100% healthy love and compassion.  That's all.  It's a lonely life for sure.

The hard thing is the more you compensate at home to be the "good caring parent' the more the parent with BPD starts to feel alienated and criticized, and to a degree a failure. This in turn brings out greater hostility as she sees your compensating as a passive aggressive attack on her. Things get worse.

So while you may have to take the lead it is important not to openly diminish her input, even if it is minimal. You want her to want to do her best and feel appreciated. It is important to realize that the outside world including the workplace is somewhere a pwBPD can paint a facade of who they would like to be, much like an actor on stage. Not being able to maintain this 24/7 is normal as it is not completely who they are so the subdued part comes out on those close to them.

It is futile for them to present this wishful facade to those close to them as you know it to be not who they are.

We all have good , bad, and ugly to our personalities. The more secure you are the less you try to hide the bad and so it is spread out in a balanced way. If someone has inner insecurity they are afraid of these 'cracks' showing so they put enormous effort into trying to be perfect, black and white thinking. The bad then is compounding by the resultant bottled up frustrations.

It is hard to make things better, but it is a long journey so it is important to make sure you dont try to make it harder than you can handle, otherwise you wont appreciate the journey.

Waverider

[EmotionalWarfare]

Jesus WR, that makes perfect sense.  Mostly.  But is equally frustrating.  All of what you shared helped once again for me to become a bit more insightful.  Thank you.  I don't minimize my s/o's input and I am always certain my daughters show their mom respect. (as much as you can with teenagers anyway) It is not a situation where it's mom vs. dad.  Our family was very fractured due to having a schizophrenic, anti-social PD son.  Over the last couple years it's been high priority for me to pull my family together since my daughters don't have much time remaining at home.  I don't want their memories of home to be overshadowed by the negativity they endured having their brother be so mentally ill.  My daughter have been overlooked a large part of their life and what was important to them had to take a backseat to the chaos inflicted by their brother very often.  Frequent police at our home, etc. etc.  It was bad.  This life has been much more difficult than anyone should have to bear.(for all of us)  I am just trying to pull it all together but I'm in a bad spot too with career change leaving me less energy for what I'm usually able to take on with ease.  Plus coming to the realization of my s/o BPD has left me first angry, denying, grieving and I'm trying desperately to accept this and move on the best I can.  Because I truly love my wife, I don't want to be without her even though I often feel continuing to be with her will lead to the deterioration of my health.  I find myself exhausted as my wife can find fault and blame for nearly any way I handle a situation.  One second I'm praised and the next I'm a rotten SOB for the very same event.  With that being said... .

It is hard to make things better, but it is a long journey so it is important to make sure you dont try to make it harder than you can handle, otherwise you wont appreciate the journey.

I found this statement a bit perplexing.  True, it's hard to make things better and right now I am certainly not enjoying the journey.  But trying not to make it harder than I can handle?  Isn't that always the goal?  This sounds as though me and my actions are the only variable in the equation.  One thing came to mind when I read this.

Picture a big, exciting roller coaster with a large inviting sign for you to ride it.  It states "Come on in.  Ride the Biggest, fastest, roller coaster.  Then promises there to never a wait.  But under that in small print it says "unless there's a line."  LOL

[waverider]

What it really means is not trying to turn everything around with one big heave. it is all too common for people with the knowledge of a few tools to attempt to throw up too many boundaries and changes all at once. That just creates an overwhelming level of conflict that soon grinds them down and so things get worse rather than better.

Making small changes, consolidating on them, enjoying and reflecting on the fact that you are getting somewhere is more enjoyable than focusing on the overwhelming "too do' list. The more you learn the more dysfunctionalities you will see so the tunnel seems to get longer and the light no closer...

[EmotionalWarfare]

Ha, ha, ha... .I get it WR.  Thanks again.  You truly are an asset to this community and I truly appreciate your input.  I'd love to have a friend like you in my life.  I guess I vent a little too much here which makes me seem a bit excitable and like I'm running a muck trying to fix everything TODAY.  He He He!  I do not get to express how any of the past and present experiences r/t my relationship within my marriage make me feel anywhere but here.  Nor have I ever been able to speak about any of the events in my RS ever.  So this is all a first for me.  Most times even when inside I am sad, uncertain, full of doubt and feeling like I have no patience or energy left I am able to find the energy, be patient, exercise the things I have learned here but in a positive, nurturing way.  And as a result my RS with my wife is definitely improving.  I am so truly grateful for this.  I am better equipped to be good for uBPDw, as well as, being good for myself and my daughters.  It is helping me to promote a more accepting, loving, safe place for my whole nuclear family.  It is also allowing me to be a better parent/husband/friend.  These tools, lessons, posts have helped promote positive personal growth within myself to better understand what my role really is.  Because as far as marriage goes; it's not a conventional role by any means.  I accept and understand this right now far more than I ever have.  This brings me much needed peace of mind and I only hope to develop greater acceptance, more personal growth, and an increased understanding in the future.  

So I extend a sincere thank you to you and the others here.

[Cat Familiar]

EW, you're doing great!    Don't worry about venting too much. You certainly are waaaaaay more positive and optimistic and far less negative than I've been in my writings here. I think that's all part of Radical Acceptance too. We accept fully where we're at in the moment. My life is soo much easier than when I first landed here. My marriage still isn't what I'd consider a normal one--whatever that may be. I've never had much normal anyway in my familial relationships, so I wouldn't know.

[waverider]

A tip re venting;

We all do it, it lets out frustration. I think of a "vent room" as having two doors, whether it be a vocal forum, or a physical gym workout. In this "vent room" you arrive one door and put down your bags and 'work out" then before you leave you freshen up and exit through a different door without picking up the bags you came with.

This freshening up is intended to help you leave feeling good. in a gym it may be a shower, in a vocal forum it is the upbeat positive how to move forward spin, or even the "fluffy dog story" (news bulletin analogy). That is dont leave on a down note. Otherwise not only does it keep you stuck in the doldrums, but it leaves a tone for the next person to pick up and compound on the venting. This depresses everyone and no one benefits.

It is important for everyone on the Staying & improving Board in particular that we learn to end venting posts on a positive/lighter note. You will also feel a lot better for it.

Waverider

[Notwendy]

I also think venting can be a starting point for learning. I found it most helpful that when I vented, caring people turned the mirror on me, allowing me to see my part in it. It didn't seem fair to me at first, but I soon realized that the only thing I had control over was my part in it.

It is great to feel supported when we vent and people say " oh you poor dear" but if this venting keeps us from seeing what we can do, instead of what we can't, then it isn't helpful in the long run.

I think we can all use a vent once in a while, but learning is a goal. Sometimes the people I thought were "meanies" by not agreeing with me all the time were the best of friends as they helped me to grow emotionally.

[earthgirl]

I just wanted to thank you guys for the responses.  It really helps to have others who understand.