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Skills we were never taught
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A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
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Author Topic: The stuff they say...  (Read 605 times)
ArleighBurke
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« on: January 30, 2016, 08:34:46 PM »

My wife explained today that when I cuddle her from behind and my groin is touching against her bottom, that that's me being sexual and selfish and not loving (even when I have no erection).

Couple that with a recent conversation where she said I wasn't allowed to open mouth kiss her - because that's pressure. I am to "treat her as if we've never had sex, then let her escalate if she wants".

But she also complains that although we're really good friends, we're not very connected or loving... .
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This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2016, 12:53:21 AM »

It's hard, but can you play by her "rules", and see if things get better? I know this is most likely a control issue on her part, but maybe a small part of it is just a woman thing. I know with BPDh I often feel that his sole need of me is sexual. I know some women feel that way though, and their partners don't have BPD.

Also, can you ask her specifically what she needs/wants to feel connected? There is a recent blog on here about "love languages", and I was prompted by that to take the quiz on that again, and found out my secondary love language is slightly different than I thought.

Even if she has BPD, there are just going to be some issues that are simply common to a lot  of women, maybe just amplified by the BPD. I always find that asking questions is good. I may not get a lot out of BPDh, but at least I try, and sometimes I find out something that is helpful.
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waverider
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2016, 04:37:17 AM »

I dont think this is just difficult for the sake of it. It sounds like she has some underlying anxiety issues going on.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2016, 11:00:56 AM »

Did you ever say no to her request for sex, or get upset if she said no? I think being turned down by a partner is very hurtful, even for someone who is emotionally mature, but I think adding BPD/co-dependency to this makes a long term intimate and sexual relationship difficult, because, inevitably a partner will not be available for a number of reasons- not feeling well, fatigue, stress. In a healthy relationship, this isn't generally common, nor is it something that is a major damage to intact partners, but for someone with poor self esteem, someone who looks to others for their sense or self, and who thinks in black and white- the temporary "no- not tonight" becomes NEVER and YOU ARE NOT DESIRABLE and the emotional response can be extreme.

There is a pattern to long term relationships that is common. In the beginning, each person is a blank slate, a blank slate where each partner can attribute their desires and dreams to. In this stage, there is a strong physical and emotional attraction. Then, reality sets in. Each person is a real person, with strong points and flaws. Sexual desire is but one component of a relationship and in general, other qualities such as communication and maturity are leaned on for the relationship to thrive. One danger that all couples face is that they can think the thrill is gone, once it isn't the same as the initial stage of the relationship. They either part- and seek a new one, or decide to work on the one they have.

I don't have BPD but I struggle with wanting to feel that it is OK to cuddle, to be pursued, to be loved independent of whether we get to sex or not, and to initiate from a place of desire, rather than the emotional baggage created by the miscommunication we have had.

At some point, even if you have no idea what, your wife's feelings were hurt. I think she does want to cuddle with no strings attached. That may not be easy for you. There's a reason why so many of us women love those Richard Gere romance type movies- and those romance books that have the same story seem to sell- but some of this seemingly over the top romance just might work to make your wife feel safer and loved. It may be much harder with someone with BPD, but if this is what you want, then this could be what she needs.
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formflier
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2016, 09:07:06 AM »



When she says these things, can you stay in the "help me understand" mode and listen for emotions?

I don't think it is about the way you do it.  For some reason she is wanting to have complete control in this area, if you can validate this reason, my guess is she will relax somewhat.

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ArleighBurke
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2016, 03:51:44 PM »

I think she just wants control.

She believes that I just want to make everything about sex. Even though that cuddle was outside, at a public playground, with the kids around. I've made deliberate efforts for quite a few months to NOT make sexual advances towards her. Just to accept whatever she gives me.

She gives me nothing.

She told me in conversation yesterday that if it feels like I don't care (because I've stopped). Yet if I try to be playful, give her random kisses and cuddles (all out of the bedroom in situations where it can't lead to sex) that makes her feel "pressure". I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. I told her that. She did respond with understanding that she has a lot of issues, and that most of the issues are hers, but then told me that I just needed to try more.

I'm sure this is nothing that everyone here doesn't go through.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2016, 03:56:10 PM »

FWIW, I would not be upset about that hug in the park. I think there are issues of painful feelings with pw BPD that are  hard to understand and that can be triggered by things that seem normal to us.

Sorry, but a hug in the park seems pretty safe. I hope you two can work this out.

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bruceli
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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2016, 11:17:49 AM »

It's hard, but can you play by her "rules", and see if things get better? I know this is most likely a control issue on her part, but maybe a small part of it is just a woman thing. I know with BPDh I often feel that his sole need of me is sexual. I know some women feel that way though, and their partners don't have BPD.

Also, can you ask her specifically what she needs/wants to feel connected? There is a recent blog on here about "love languages", and I was prompted by that to take the quiz on that again, and found out my secondary love language is slightly different than I thought.

Even if she has BPD, there are just going to be some issues that are simply common to a lot  of women, maybe just amplified by the BPD. I always find that asking questions is good. I may not get a lot out of BPDh, but at least I try, and sometimes I find out something that is helpful.

I was prompted to take the LL quiz by my pwPD.  Not only were our primary and secondary languages the same, our scores were virtually identical.  Of course she was absolutely positive that we were so different that when she got the score... .in true PD fashion... .her reply... ."you must have cheated!"  
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bruceli
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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2016, 11:20:29 AM »

I think she just wants control.

She believes that I just want to make everything about sex. Even though that cuddle was outside, at a public playground, with the kids around. I've made deliberate efforts for quite a few months to NOT make sexual advances towards her. Just to accept whatever she gives me.

She gives me nothing.

She told me in conversation yesterday that if it feels like I don't care (because I've stopped). Yet if I try to be playful, give her random kisses and cuddles (all out of the bedroom in situations where it can't lead to sex) that makes her feel "pressure". I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. I told her that. She did respond with understanding that she has a lot of issues, and that most of the issues are hers, but then told me that I just needed to try more.



I'm sure this is nothing that everyone here doesn't go through.

The hallmark of a pwPD.  It keeps us off balance and keeps them in control.
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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2016, 11:43:47 AM »

Yeah, after reading your second post, and hearing the hug was in public, and that you've backed off so she shouldn't feel all you want is sex, I'm thinking this clearly IS due to the BPD. Probably control too.

It is a lose/lose for you. I've been there myself a lot of times. I'm sort of in that cycle with BPDh. He needs sex to feel connected, but I will no longer have sex with him after he's been verbally abusive, or ignored me all day. I used to, but I just can't anymore. We've talked about it, he gets in intellectually, but he won't control his anger enough, or try to connect enough to where I feel that the sex won't be me just being used. It's clearly about control on my BPDh's part too. He wants sex with no strings attached. To him, maybe he thinks sex IS emotional connection enough? He isn't even loving during sex, so how he could be feeling emotionally connected through sex is beyond me.

Are you guys in couples therapy? Can this be addressed there? Sometimes my BPDh will listen to a therapist, when I or someone else has told him the exact same thing. It's like they selectively want to look good to the therapist.
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waverider
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« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2016, 04:48:19 PM »

I think she just wants control.

Often it is more driven by a fear of not being in control.

Innocent affection is the way to go, but it may take a long time before she accepts it as the new normal.

BPD black and white thinking in absolutes has her stuck in the mindset of affection=sex=exposure to her emotions and vulnerability=lack of control of her image=threat.

This chain of associations will take a while to break.

If cheeky flirtation just becomes part of the way you communicate with her it will normalize it. As it is she doesn't know if it comes with expectations or not. It is the fear of expectations rather than actually going with it that is causing the issues. It is part of Distress Intolerance, one of the flawed coping skills is avoidance.
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ArleighBurke
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Relationship status: was married - 15 yrs
Posts: 911


« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2016, 06:59:57 PM »

Yes - she often talks about what she *thinks* i want. We even talk about that - I will point out that I've never said that, or that is NOT what I want - and she will acknowledge with "I know - but it's what *I FEEL*". So she's aware that shes reacting to whats in her head (not reality), but that doesn't change anything. Or she talks about behaviours that I stopped 3+ years ago.

Change will take time.

She insisted that we go to marriage counselling. After 6-7 visits she didn't want to go anymore - because "the counsellor is just telling me that you won't change, and that i just need to accept you the way you are". She wouldn't have that!

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