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Author Topic: Causes of BPD - Sexual Abuse  (Read 747 times)
StillRecovering
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« on: February 14, 2016, 11:26:31 AM »

I have moved past the point of having any desire to have any sort of contact with my ex but I do want to better understand personality disorders.  Borderline personality disorder doesn't just come out of nowhere; there have to be some causes of it. As I continue learning more and more about this disorder, a common theme that seems to come up is pwBPD being victims of sexual abuse.  When something so horrible, so atrocious, and so confusing happens to you as a child, it is not surprising that the person has issues of trust, abandonment, and rage as an adult.

My BPDex was sexually abused as a child.  This is not something she told many people and I don't know all of the details of it.  But it sounds truly horrible.  A person who is supposed to take care of you, an uncle, a family friend, maybe even your own father, doing things to you and make you do things to them.  Things that you know are wrong but at such a young age don't understand.  This is the kind of abuse that can break a person for life, that is, it may not be possible to recover from it.

Mine carried around the shame from it, as one might expect.  She called herself "unclean" and "damaged goods".  I encouraged her to seek help but she assured me there was nothing wrong with her and refused going to any kind of counseling.  

I can't imagine what it would be like to be sexually assaulted as a child.  And when it has happened to you multiple times, always dreading the next time.  The movie "Sleepers" made me shiver, but I really can't imagine that happening in real life.  I really have to wonder if all the rage built up inside of her, all the the lack of trust, all the many aspects of her disorder all go back to this horrible thing that happened to her years ago.  

Does anyone else have experiences like this?
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2016, 11:38:59 AM »

If you are asking someone with BPD to talk about it inhere, I don't think you'll have many reactions as this kind of subject is most than probably triggering for them.

With that said, not all pwBPD have been sexually abused. They may have lived other traumas though such as being beaten or abandoned as early as they were babies.

It's damaging for life and heartbreaking to know that they had to go through hell when they were babies and children and that because of their persecutors and torturers they still today live a hellish life with near-to-impossible commitments to long term relationships.

What is also heartbreaking is that no matter how much we may love them, we seem helpless. If only there was a magical wand... .sigh.
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StillRecovering
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2016, 11:42:36 AM »

If you are asking someone with BPD to talk about it inhere, I don't think you'll have many reactions as this kind of subject is most than probably triggering for them.

Please let me clarify.  I meant does anyone have experiences in a relationship with a borderline who has been sexually abused.  I was wondering about the effect it had on the relationship, e.g., rages, trust issues, withholding sex, cheating, etc.

What is also heartbreaking is that no matter how much we may love them, we seem helpless. If only there was a magical wand... .sigh.

That really is the most frustrating part.  I thought I could help her, that we could be happy together... .like you said... .sigh... .
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2016, 12:12:42 PM »

Dear StillRecovering,

I'm truly sorry that your BPDex went through sexual abuse as a child. I'm happy that she is alive, no matter how fragile and is a survivor. I hope she finds a healing path one day, which may lessen her pain if not achieve full "recovery".

As far as I know, reports of high-betrayal recovery is around 75% in BPD and many people here have heard from their partners that they were sexually abused as children. As these homes may not be emotionally safe in a lot of senses, I think, with some individuals, the mechanism for BPD may have been established before that as well. Many effects of trauma (rage etc) may also be not due to long-term neglect individuals experience as children.  

My ex (a male) has shared this with me but from what he says, this occurred when he was 16. I know for sure that he had a traumatic childhood and he dissociates a lot, so trauma has been a big part of his psychological state. He also says he was raped by a male friend as an adult. I know for sure that his sexual boundaries are mixed-up as I experienced violation of my boundaries with him and also heard his shock-stories - I don't know how true these are.

I feel sad, very sad for what he experienced as a child (with or without sexual abuse) but I also feel sad that I had to experience abuse from him. As an adult, I'm still trying to come to terms with it. (I'm grateful that as an adult, life offers me the opportunity to become a survivor rather than remain as a victim. Many victims of childhood sexual abuse say that this path is what heals them as well.)

So how do I relate to what I heard? My ex always talked about his painful childhood. I come from one as well although my childhood was not as volatile as his. So, when I heard his story, I felt a familiarity. I never visualised him as a child, but he had something childlike about him sometimes and I wanted to cuddle that child and wanted to say We'll be OK. During this, I happened to neglect my own broken-hearted inner child that I have had to make contact with after a childhood with a low-grade NPD mother. I felt very angry for everything my ex had to go through. I thought, as people with similar emotional experiences, we could treat each other with sensitivity and care. Unfortunately, this did not happen. So, in my healing, I feel anger at him sometimes. My goal is to handle this in a healthy way, trying to hear what my anger says to me about myself and my boundaries and then let go. Judith Herman of trauma studies says something along these lines: if abuse is not treated or if the victim doesn't heal, they become their abuser. This is where bitterness takes people to; we may entitled to cause pain to others because we, ourselves, suffered so much. I feel very sorry that my ex is like this and angry (very angry at life, at his parents, at many psychiatrists who ignored abuse, trauma, BPD and just focused on his drug use, at people who told him to quit drugs first and then they would talk to him, at everyone basically). Still, I think this gives him no right to treat people the way he treats them. As an adult, he received this feedback from a lot of people but doesn't have the motivation to change at this point in his life. I have calmness in me about detachment. I have worked on acceptance.

So, this is how I relate to this situation. What are your feelings (other than frustration), your understanding and your personal healing goal in relation to this?

Best,

TW

 
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 12:15:21 PM »

Please let me clarify.  I meant does anyone have experiences in a relationship with a borderline who has been sexually abused.  I was wondering about the effect it had on the relationship, e.g., rages, trust issues, withholding sex, cheating, etc.

That really is the most frustrating part.  I thought I could help her, that we could be happy together... .like you said... .sigh... .

I suspect there are many BPD women that were sexually abused. Mine was. I don't think it was THE reason that she was BPD, but was one more reason. Strange part was she was a very sexual person (maybe even hyper sexual). I would have thought those that were abused would shy away from sex.

Unfortunately, my codependent side thought I could show her that not all men were like those from her past and "love her through this". That did not work and before long I felt lost myself.

Sorry to say it this way, but I am glad I am not alone. It's good to know my sanity (or lack thereof at times), is shared with others.

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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2016, 12:21:01 PM »

I know mine was abused in various ways.

I suspected sexual abuse and when she was in therapy for 4 years the topic came up. When I asked her if it happened she said "I don't know" .

Her borderline sister had previously accused a cousin of it, but the parents brushed it under the carpet to avoid the family fallout.

She lives in a delusional world so this kind of thing might be too painful for her mind to a knowledge or bring up. So yes I suspect it but it's not confirmed.
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StillRecovering
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2016, 12:24:55 PM »

So, this is how I relate to this situation. What are your feelings (other than frustration), your understanding and your personal healing goal in relation to this?

 

Thisworld,

Thank you for your caring, detailed response.  I am very sad for my ex as well, and I can relate to what you said about trying to bond.  My goal is to understand where the angry, bizarre, and abusive behavior of my ex and other pwBPD comes from.  It seems to all come down to abandonment.  Sexual abuse is clearly a form of abandonment.  Someone who was supposed to take care of you (or at the very least not force sexual acts on you) abandoned you by doing these things and robbing you of your innocence.  I don't think a child is developed enough to process what is going on, but it lays the groundwork for BPD.  Also, like you said, if it is an environment where sexual abuse can occur, there are likely other problems in these homes, furthering the probability of developing BPD.  The BPD was abandoned as a child and that mark is left there, very deeply, making them always fear abandonment as an adult, thus the cycle of the disorder continues.
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StillRecovering
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 12:27:20 PM »

I suspect there are many BPD women that were sexually abused. Mine was. I don't think it was THE reason that she was BPD, but was one more reason. Strange part was she was a very sexual person (maybe even hyper sexual). I would have thought those that were abused would shy away from sex.

Same in my case.

She lives in a delusional world so this kind of thing might be too painful for her mind to a knowledge or bring up. So yes I suspect it but it's not confirmed.

Similar to my case in lot of ways.

It really is astonishing how similar all of our experiences with pwBPD are.  I read other people's stories on here and it's like I'm hearing about my own life.
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2016, 12:36:34 PM »

Just to put in my two-penny worth:

There are lots of people who have been sexually abused who do not develop BPD and also there are pwBPD who make false allegations at various points in their lives (as evidenced on the parenting board here). My limited understanding is that pwBPD who are diagnosed, have genetically different brain structure to nons. So, it is a very complex interaction.  I don't think sexual abuse or other trauma causes BPD, though it may cause push-pull behaviours that mimic BPD in some ways. Perhaps trauma precipitates BPD if the person is genetically pre-disposed to it.

Whatever the causes of the BPD, sexual abuse causes great suffering to the individuals involved. An interesting book for relatives of women who have been sexually abused is 'The Courage to Heal' by Ellen Bass and Laura Davies.

Love Lifewriter
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 01:05:20 PM »

Thisworld, I could have written this myself--practically word for word. This is why I can never get to anger. (This and the legacy of my own childhood.)

Well, still working on detaching.

But he already has my forgiveness. Even though he hasn't asked for it. 



Dear StillRecovering,

I'm truly sorry that your BPDex went through sexual abuse as a child. I'm happy that she is alive, no matter how fragile and is a survivor. I hope she finds a healing path one day, which may lessen her pain if not achieve full "recovery".

As far as I know, reports of high-betrayal recovery is around 75% in BPD and many people here have heard from their partners that they were sexually abused as children. As these homes may not be emotionally safe in a lot of senses, I think, with some individuals, the mechanism for BPD may have been established before that as well. Many effects of trauma (rage etc) may also be not due to long-term neglect individuals experience as children.  

My ex (a male) has shared this with me but from what he says, this occurred when he was 16. I know for sure that he had a traumatic childhood and he dissociates a lot, so trauma has been a big part of his psychological state. He also says he was raped by a male friend as an adult. I know for sure that his sexual boundaries are mixed-up as I experienced violation of my boundaries with him and also heard his shock-stories - I don't know how true these are.

I feel sad, very sad for what he experienced as a child (with or without sexual abuse) but I also feel sad that I had to experience abuse from him. As an adult, I'm still trying to come to terms with it. (I'm grateful that as an adult, life offers me the opportunity to become a survivor rather than remain as a victim. Many victims of childhood sexual abuse say that this path is what heals them as well.)

So how do I relate to what I heard? My ex always talked about his painful childhood. I come from one as well although my childhood was not as volatile as his. So, when I heard his story, I felt a familiarity. I never visualised him as a child, but he had something childlike about him sometimes and I wanted to cuddle that child and wanted to say We'll be OK. During this, I happened to neglect my own broken-hearted inner child that I have had to make contact with after a childhood with a low-grade NPD mother. I felt very angry for everything my ex had to go through. I thought, as people with similar emotional experiences, we could treat each other with sensitivity and care. Unfortunately, this did not happen. So, in my healing, I feel anger at him sometimes. My goal is to handle this in a healthy way, trying to hear what my anger says to me about myself and my boundaries and then let go. Judith Herman of trauma studies says something along these lines: if abuse is not treated or if the victim doesn't heal, they become their abuser. This is where bitterness takes people to; we may entitled to cause pain to others because we, ourselves, suffered so much. I feel very sorry that my ex is like this and angry (very angry at life, at his parents, at many psychiatrists who ignored abuse, trauma, BPD and just focused on his drug use, at people who told him to quit drugs first and then they would talk to him, at everyone basically). Still, I think this gives him no right to treat people the way he treats them. As an adult, he received this feedback from a lot of people but doesn't have the motivation to change at this point in his life. I have calmness in me about detachment. I have worked on acceptance.

So, this is how I relate to this situation. What are your feelings (other than frustration), your understanding and your personal healing goal in relation to this?

Best,

TW

 

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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2016, 01:12:17 PM »

According to the experts, BPD stems from a dysfunctional attachment or detachment (depending on what you read) from their very first primary caregiver. The pwBPD never developed their own identity, their own autonomous "self." That's the relationship they are continually trying to replicate in order to become "whole" again. This occured before the age of three, before recoverable memories were formed. It's a developmental disorder, not the result of abuse. As LW has stated, there also seems to be strong evidence of a genetic/hardware predisposition for the disorder.

We were all BPDer's at one point in our development, that's normal.
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StillRecovering
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2016, 01:22:35 PM »

According to the experts, BPD stems from a dysfunctional attachment or detachment (depending on what you read) from their very first primary caregiver. The pwBPD never developed their own identity, their own autonomous "self." That's the relationship they are continually trying to replicate in order to become "whole" again. This occured before the age of three, before recoverable memories were formed. It's a developmental disorder, not the result of abuse. As LW has stated, there also seems to be strong evidence of a genetic/hardware predisposition for the disorder.

We were all BPDer's at one point in our development, that's normal.

I understand what you are saying but a lot of research also points to childhood trauma as a cause for BPD.  Yes, there are genetic factors and I agree with the detachment from the primary caregiver, but events that occur after the age of three can certainly determine whether a person turns out BPD or not.  These events can be neglect, abandonment, having the validity of thoughts and feelings denied, and abuse, sexual or otherwise. 
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2016, 01:28:55 PM »

Worth distinguishing correlation and causation. The sexual or other abuse later in childhood may not cause BPD but may be correlated with it.

In the case of my uBPDx: he was regularly beaten and emotionally abused by the man his mother married when he was 7. His mother stood by. I believe he has c-ptsd.

But note that his primary caregiver MARRIED this p.o.s. and stayed with him. Why? His biological father was regularly beating HER when she was still with him. That cannot have been an emotionally healthy mother.

It makes sense that abuse is strongly correlated with the conditions that put someone at risk for BPD.


According to the experts, BPD stems from a dysfunctional attachment or detachment (depending on what you read) from their very first primary caregiver. The pwBPD never developed their own identity, their own autonomous "self." That's the relationship they are continually trying to replicate in order to become "whole" again. This occured before the age of three, before recoverable memories were formed. It's a developmental disorder, not the result of abuse. As LW has stated, there also seems to be strong evidence of a genetic/hardware predisposition for the disorder.

We were all BPDer's at one point in our development, that's normal.

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thisworld
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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2016, 01:34:28 PM »

So, this is how I relate to this situation. What are your feelings (other than frustration), your understanding and your personal healing goal in relation to this?


Thisworld,

Thank you for your caring, detailed response.  I am very sad for my ex as well, and I can relate to what you said about trying to bond.  My goal is to understand where the angry, bizarre, and abusive behavior of my ex and other pwBPD comes from.  It seems to all come down to abandonment.  Sexual abuse is clearly a form of abandonment.  Someone who was supposed to take care of you (or at the very least not force sexual acts on you) abandoned you by doing these things and robbing you of your innocence.  I don't think a child is developed enough to process what is going on, but it lays the groundwork for BPD.  Also, like you said, if it is an environment where sexual abuse can occur, there are likely other problems in these homes, furthering the probability of developing BPD.  The BPD was abandoned as a child and that mark is left there, very deeply, making them always fear abandonment as an adult, thus the cycle of the disorder continues.

StillRecovering hi again,

Yes, you are right, fear of abandonment and engulfment are at the core of BPD and many behaviours we experience are coping skills for that. Is a particular person abusive at that moment because of this particular fear, or are they experiencing a mood change they cannot name, or is it something else? I think we may never know exactly. Also, sexual abuse doesn't mean that people with coping skills similar to those of our exes are the only possible outcome. For every individual there is a unique combination, isn't there? Genetic disposition, life circumstances, experiences, years experienced as a result of certain coping skills, choices. I understand your need to understand where this all comes from and making meaning is important for our own healing. If your ex was sexually abused and this has not been treated, even a relationship with someone with the same sex as the abuser may cause a lot of reactions you may deem extraordinary depending on her trauma - again, every traumatised person is unique. Sometimes, in some abusive families, things go back for generations and some behaviours are just learned. Only your ex can discover the causes of her behaviour in therapy by making her own narrative the way you are.

One thing is for sure, these reactions come from a probably disordered, troubled state which cannot be healed by love alone - especially with BPD in the equation.  

My personal opinion is that when we are looking for causes for a present state, we should also consider the lack of personal motivation to seek inner healing (through formal, informal, personal, inner methods) as this is the factor that moves an abuse victim from the victim state to the survivor state. In this sense, personal responsibility if we can use it for our own health is liberating in the end. I have no moral judgment on this "lack" as pwBPD sometimes have a condition that prevent them from seeing that they have a problem. However, this is not the case with sexual abuse. I'm not saying that it's the victim's "fault" that they are not seeking healing. This is not a "fault" and nobody, simply nobody

can judge this because we can never truly know what prevents a victim from doing that. Sometimes, people believe they will not heal so they are afraid to start. Sometimes, there are unintentional enablers around. Sometimes nobody has an idea how painful this may all be. But we can only hope they find tools that bring them peace of mind one day. I truly wish for this. 

How is your detachment going? How do you feel about the 3Cs: didn't cause it, cannot control it, cannot cure it?

Stay strong     
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2016, 01:44:57 PM »

My BPD friend was molested once, at age 15.  Her mother had the person removed from their house, through the proper channels, and my BPD friend went to therapy for it.  But according to my BPD friend, it happened from ages 10-16.  She also lies about or exaggerates about abuse in her romantic relationships. 

Her mom and dad got divorced when she was young, but she saw both parents often.  Mom reports that, from an early age, my BPD friend just wasn't content.  She bounced around from interest to interest and gave up on things when they became too difficult (riding a bike, riding a horse, karate lessons). 

In 2009, her mom got married again, but before they got married, they sat my BPD friend down and told her they could wait until she graduated high school to get married, so she could graduate from the high school she had been attending for three years.  She said she was fine with moving, so they moved.  The first year was pretty good, but as soon as she started college, it all went downhill.  A different guy every weekend, drugs, alcohol, a suicide attempt, stealing money, etc.  She then started making a big deal out of the molestation, and her mom offered to put her back in therapy, but my BPD friend refused. 

So, that event might have contributed to her BPD coming to the surface, but there were already hints of it when she was a kid.

It's quite sad, really.  When she was in preschool, she drew a picture of her mom and said she wanted to be just like her when she grew up.  Now, she's not even speaking to her. 
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StillRecovering
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2016, 03:24:08 PM »

Worth distinguishing correlation and causation. The sexual or other abuse later in childhood may not cause BPD but may be correlated with it.

In the case of my uBPDx: he was regularly beaten and emotionally abused by the man his mother married when he was 7. His mother stood by. I believe he has c-ptsd.

But note that his primary caregiver MARRIED this p.o.s. and stayed with him. Why? His biological father was regularly beating HER when she was still with him. That cannot have been an emotionally healthy mother.

It makes sense that abuse is strongly correlated with the conditions that put someone at risk for BPD.

Steelwork - this makes a lot of sense.  The environment that caused the BPD is much more likely to include sexual abuse, but correlation is not necessarily causation.

One thing is for sure, these reactions come from a probably disordered, troubled state which cannot be healed by love alone - especially with BPD in the equation.   

My personal opinion is that when we are looking for causes for a present state, we should also consider the lack of personal motivation to seek inner healing (through formal, informal, personal, inner methods) as this is the factor that moves an abuse victim from the victim state to the survivor state. In this sense, personal responsibility if we can use it for our own health is liberating in the end. I have no moral judgment on this "lack" as pwBPD sometimes have a condition that prevent them from seeing that they have a problem. However, this is not the case with sexual abuse. I'm not saying that it's the victim's "fault" that they are not seeking healing. This is not a "fault" and nobody, simply nobody

can judge this because we can never truly know what prevents a victim from doing that. Sometimes, people believe they will not heal so they are afraid to start. Sometimes, there are unintentional enablers around. Sometimes nobody has an idea how painful this may all be. But we can only hope they find tools that bring them peace of mind one day. I truly wish for this. 

How is your detachment going? How do you feel about the 3Cs: didn't cause it, cannot control it, cannot cure it?

Stay strong    

Thank you again for your helpful response thisworld.  My detachment is going somewhat well.  I can work with the "cause" and "control" parts but have trouble with the "cure" part.  Because I thought I could.  Like you said above, they cannot be cured by love alone.  The unfortunate part for the partners is that the inner rage caused by the sexual abuse combined with the personality disorder leads to it getting taken out on us.  That was the most confusing part.  Little things that wouldn't bother most people sending my BPDex into a rage.  I guess that is more the disorder than the fallout from childhood abuse?
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« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2016, 03:27:59 PM »

She then started making a big deal out of the molestation, and her mom offered to put her back in therapy, but my BPD friend refused. 

So, that event might have contributed to her BPD coming to the surface, but there were already hints of it when she was a kid.

SummerStorm, this makes a lot of sense and goes along with what Steelwork said.  I now understand that the BPD was already there and the molestation brought it out.  Thank you for sharing this.

Her mom and dad got divorced when she was young, but she saw both parents often.  Mom reports that, from an early age, my BPD friend just wasn't content.  She bounced around from interest to interest and gave up on things when they became too difficult (riding a bike, riding a horse, karate lessons).  

On a side note, this seems very common for BPD's.  They "bounce around", whether it be activities, jobs, partners, cities.  They do not have a sense of self so they cannot fully commit to anything and engage in it for long periods of time. That would be the opposite of chaos, and they thrive on chaos.
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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2016, 04:15:33 PM »

Dear StillRecovering,

I'm truly sorry that your BPDex went through sexual abuse as a child. I'm happy that she is alive, no matter how fragile and is a survivor. I hope she finds a healing path one day, which may lessen her pain if not achieve full "recovery".

As far as I know, reports of high-betrayal recovery is around 75% in BPD and many people here have heard from their partners that they were sexually abused as children. As these homes may not be emotionally safe in a lot of senses, I think, with some individuals, the mechanism for BPD may have been established before that as well. Many effects of trauma (rage etc) may also be not due to long-term neglect individuals experience as children.  

My ex (a male) has shared this with me but from what he says, this occurred when he was 16. I know for sure that he had a traumatic childhood and he dissociates a lot, so trauma has been a big part of his psychological state. He also says he was raped by a male friend as an adult. I know for sure that his sexual boundaries are mixed-up as I experienced violation of my boundaries with him and also heard his shock-stories - I don't know how true these are.

I feel sad, very sad for what he experienced as a child (with or without sexual abuse) but I also feel sad that I had to experience abuse from him. As an adult, I'm still trying to come to terms with it. (I'm grateful that as an adult, life offers me the opportunity to become a survivor rather than remain as a victim. Many victims of childhood sexual abuse say that this path is what heals them as well.)

So how do I relate to what I heard? My ex always talked about his painful childhood. I come from one as well although my childhood was not as volatile as his. So, when I heard his story, I felt a familiarity. I never visualised him as a child, but he had something childlike about him sometimes and I wanted to cuddle that child and wanted to say We'll be OK. During this, I happened to neglect my own broken-hearted inner child that I have had to make contact with after a childhood with a low-grade NPD mother. I felt very angry for everything my ex had to go through. I thought, as people with similar emotional experiences, we could treat each other with sensitivity and care. Unfortunately, this did not happen. So, in my healing, I feel anger at him sometimes. My goal is to handle this in a healthy way, trying to hear what my anger says to me about myself and my boundaries and then let go. Judith Herman of trauma studies says something along these lines: if abuse is not treated or if the victim doesn't heal, they become their abuser. This is where bitterness takes people to; we may entitled to cause pain to others because we, ourselves, suffered so much. I feel very sorry that my ex is like this and angry (very angry at life, at his parents, at many psychiatrists who ignored abuse, trauma, BPD and just focused on his drug use, at people who told him to quit drugs first and then they would talk to him, at everyone basically). Still, I think this gives him no right to treat people the way he treats them. As an adult, he received this feedback from a lot of people but doesn't have the motivation to change at this point in his life. I have calmness in me about detachment. I have worked on acceptance.

So, this is how I relate to this situation. What are your feelings (other than frustration), your understanding and your personal healing goal in relation to this?

Best,

TW

 

So familiar Thisworld.

My stbxh was neglected and abused - emotionally, verbally, physically and sexually - likely while still in utero. From what I could gather over the years, it is likely both of his parents were victims of all varieties of neglect and abuse as children, as well. Family secrets.

I felt for him. I tried to help him. I tried to love him. It was jut too much for me.

To be honest, he used his childhood as a weapon. It was a trump card that got thrown out as his explanation for his behaviors.

I get angry, with myself, with him, his (now deceased parents) and his extended family. Throughout his life, he had supportive people and many chances at healing through therapy but he refused. I truly believe that the healing process would have been to hard for him. Instead he opted to hold on to the negative and remain a hurt child, an angry addict, lashing out at the world.

My goal is to detach, heal myself and move on with life.






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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2016, 04:53:04 PM »

I can work with the "cause" and "control" parts but have trouble with the "cure" part.

This is so insightful StillRecovering as many people in (or were in) difficult relationships that I know struggle most with this. For one thing, it connotes things that supposedly "can be done" in the relationship space (which is wrong). Secondly, for many people, this has connections with rescuer reflexes, perfectionism and even guilt and a feeling of failure. In my personal example, I experienced that feeling of failure a lot due to my upbringing. In this relationship, it is somehow easier to let go ( I have admitted eternal defeat at the face of Cluster B now:)). Do you think, in your case, difficulty with the last C is related to something about you and only you? I believe, if you work on that aspect of this third C, it will bother you less in time.

For failure, this is how I think nowadays: This thing where I feel failed was not something where I should or could be expected to succeed anyway. This is a disorder, at this stage it cannot be cured by relationship love. (Actually, as far as I understand, many of us or the loving space we provide seem to be the triggering factor of certain aspects of BPD). If I see this as something where I should succeed, I imagine myself as a penguin that accidentally entered a flying contest:) This area is for healthcare providers actually. We cannot cure anyone beyond their efforts (though I wish we could:)) I like to think that in reality, I didn't fail in anything actually. It was beyond my boundaries and power to cure him, it was within my boundaries to love him to the best of my power as a limited being, which I did. During this, I made some mistakes but then everybody does in every relationship. I can work on those aspects of myself on my own and with support. I also had a chance to practice better skills with my ex. It didn't work. And, unfortunately but realistically, although communication improved, the satisfaction I got from communicating or associating did not increase. I'll let go like you are successfully doing as well.  

Note: I made a mistake in my previous post. It should be "high-betrayal abuse". Sorry for that.

And again, for the cause, this is probably like a ball of wool, the owner of the issues will enter into this from a point of entry and will discover a lot about themselves on the way. But again, isn't it like that for everyone anyway? Some years ago, I came down with thought OCD, an anxiety disorder. At first, it was treated as a genetic disposition, then I discovered in my therapy stuff that was traumatic to me, then I realized that certain people around me would trigger me for a while (my NPD mother being one), then I discovered that some life experiences added new themes to my problem. I cannot say, there is this single cause. But everyone makes a narrative to make sense. I think, for our own healing and detachment purposes, it's important to understand that whatever the cause, we cannot cure it.

Sometimes, when they hear that someone loved was abused, people feel shame and guilt as well as sorrow. That this person had a worse lot than ourselves makes us feel (covertly) morally obliged (for lack of a better description) to tolerate hurtful things that we would not otherwise. Do you have this? Or what do you think about it?

Stay strong! 

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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2016, 04:55:28 PM »

She then started making a big deal out of the molestation, and her mom offered to put her back in therapy, but my BPD friend refused. 

So, that event might have contributed to her BPD coming to the surface, but there were already hints of it when she was a kid.

SummerStorm, this makes a lot of sense and goes along with what Steelwork said.  I now understand that the BPD was already there and the molestation brought it out.  Thank you for sharing this.

Her mom and dad got divorced when she was young, but she saw both parents often.  Mom reports that, from an early age, my BPD friend just wasn't content.  She bounced around from interest to interest and gave up on things when they became too difficult (riding a bike, riding a horse, karate lessons).  

On a side note, this seems very common for BPD's.  They "bounce around", whether it be activities, jobs, partners, cities.  They do not have a sense of self so they cannot fully commit to anything and engage in it for long periods of time. That would be the opposite of chaos, and they thrive on chaos.

Yes, I think there are probably many things that brought it out in her.  Her mom is really nice but has been married several times.  Her mom and dad had both been married before and have both married again since then.  And she might have thought that moving to a different school for her senior year wasn't a big deal, but it was.  A few years ago, her mom and stepdad moved to a different state.  She told them it was fine, but I think it triggered abandonment fears in her.  

Her mom has a lot of health problems (lupus, a heart condition, kidney problems), and her dad is in his 70s.  I'm sure that also contributes to her abandonment fears.

She went to college for four years and student taught, but she's working at a convenience store.  Who knows where she'll work next?  
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« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2016, 06:00:35 PM »

There is a lot of talk of abuse of the pwBPD on this thread. I am curious to know how much of said abuse has actually been positively confirmed by the Non? As LW pointed out, it's quite common for pwBPD to tell tales of woe in order to get the rescuer to rescuing.
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« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2016, 06:22:03 PM »

There is a lot of talk of abuse of the pwBPD on this thread. I am curious to know how much of said abuse has actually been positively confirmed by the Non? As LW pointed out, it's quite common for pwBPD to tell tales of woe in order to get the rescuer to rescuing.

In my case, the molestation at 15 was confirmed by her mom.  It was only one time, and there was no penetration.  Obviously, still a very traumatic experience, but nothing compared to the story she tells.

But she tells everyone she gets close to that it was from ages 10-16.  
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« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2016, 06:29:03 PM »

Mine was sexually abused by her father over a period of years.

The damage this must do is incredible, i can't imagine what it must be like. Still it needs to be dealt with in therapy.
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« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2016, 10:37:03 PM »

Hi Summer,

Yep, that's classic BPD eternal victimhood:

What actually occured:

In my case, the molestation at 15 was confirmed by her mom.  It was only one time, and there was no penetration. 

What the pwBPD tells, with embellishments:

Obviously, still a very traumatic experience, but nothing compared to the story she tells.

But she tells everyone she gets close to that it was from ages 10-16.


I suspect that most of these tales of childhood abuse never occured or have been wildly exaggerated. This runs right in line with them trashing every ex partner that they've had. I think most of us become part of their "abuse" (victim) narrative.
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« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2016, 11:38:30 PM »

Please let me clarify.  I meant does anyone have experiences in a relationship with a borderline who has been sexually abused.  I was wondering about the effect it had on the relationship, e.g., rages, trust issues, withholding sex, cheating, etc.

That really is the most frustrating part.  I thought I could help her, that we could be happy together... .like you said... .sigh... .

I suspect there are many BPD women that were sexually abused. Mine was. I don't think it was THE reason that she was BPD, but was one more reason. Strange part was she was a very sexual person (maybe even hyper sexual). I would have thought those that were abused would shy away from sex.

My mother was orphaned by her mother at 12, and by her father at 14. Her father raped her from 7-14. Her older sister was, too, but managed to leave and have a fairly boilerplate mid-Western family and a happy marriage. My mother, the baby of the family (she had two older brothers as well), was left alone at 12 with her father, who also brought prostitutes to live with the two of them.

I found out about her father when I left home at 18 when my mom was basically gong off the rails. She admitted to her depression then. 24 years later, she said that one of her therapists suggested in a roundabout was that she was also BPD. My mom accepts this (in-between when she isn't arm-chair diagnosing other Borderlines, like my Ex, whom she thought was BPD right away, but never told me). Just this past week, my mom said that when I was a child (enduring her "borderline" abuse), that she was in thereapy for PTSD. She asked, "did you know that?" I BIFFed it, "no." What do you say to that? It took me growing up and leaving to send her over the edge to go into deep therapy and fully unlock the past.

Other than a brief stint as a "borderline" hippie around 1970, where she was engaged to a San Francisco hedonist (who pretty much forced her to abort their baby), she remained sexless thereafter the break-up. She married a dear friend in the mid-90s, but mostly to make it easier to take care of him after he had a severe stroke. He was all but paralyzed. She is a registered nurse.  I resented that she finally gave me a father in my mid 20s, and I didn't consider it a "real" marriage. I seriously doubt that they comsumated it. Yes, I was a Richard. She had to ruin it by telling me later that he molested (raped) his own two daughters, who were both low functioning, back in the day. WTMI, mom. Though he was kind to us, and provided a place when we were homeless, I still don't know how to feel about him. He died over 10 years ago. I remember the call. My mom told me a few years after he died.

After D3's probably molestation last year by her 17yo uncle on my Ex's side (from what we could glean, most likely touching or poking, probably through her clothes, hard to say, still a [insert alliterative swear word here] felony, we had a session with the T she abandoned me to in 2013. He already knew after the two individual sessions they had before she quit that she didn't trust men. He asked her. This time, he asked her, "has anyone ever done anything to you?" Short answer, "yes, my grandfather." I resisted the urge to jump up and say, "I knew it!" I had asked her before, because due to my mom, and other older women who had "come out" in my life, I just had a suspicion. He may have "just" fondled and touched her, I don't know. Actually, I didn't want to jump up. We were there on serious business to get guidance on how to deal with protecting our kids. I was just sad. Really, really sad...

Maybe that wasn't a crime in their home country, though maybe like in the US, families just deny it to protect the perps while the victims are sacrificed up the alter of the narcissistic family unit. Not on the Wolf Watch! Oddly, I think I am the one man my Ex actually trusts with our kids; more than the males in her family, and more than her husband even.

Unlike my mother, who had a way more horrible childhood (her father beat all of the kids, too), my Ex wasn't non-sexual; yet, quite the opposite. She used it to connect more than what I would deem healthy in a "normal" r/s, whatever that is.

Whether early development attachment issues, trauma and abuse, neural wiring or any combination thereof, a disorder or disorders are hard to explain. Whatever stories we hear, we can never know what really happened.

This whole subject actually sickens me, especially given my research in the past year, seeing how much more prevalent it is than I thought, and his much families and communities can rally around perps. I get that there can be false accusations and embelisments, but in my case, the admissions and stories were under-stated;  my Ex's very brief, rooted in shame.
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« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2016, 11:57:30 PM »

Hi Summer,

Yep, that's classic BPD eternal victimhood:

What actually occured:

In my case, the molestation at 15 was confirmed by her mom.  It was only one time, and there was no penetration.  

What the pwBPD tells, with embellishments:

Obviously, still a very traumatic experience, but nothing compared to the story she tells.

But she tells everyone she gets close to that it was from ages 10-16.

I suspect that most of these tales of childhood abuse never occurred or have been wildly exaggerated. This runs right in line with them trashing every ex partner that they've had. I think most of us become part of their "abuse" (victim) narrative.

This is really spooky. It never occurred to me to doubt my uBPDx's story. He was utterly convincing--partly because he was so matter-of-fact about it for the first year I knew him (only opening up emotionally later on). And the details were so specific and woven into a narrative that included some other extreme circumstances that have been verified. (Like the isolationist fundamentalist church his family joined.)

But then I never thought he'd be capable of some of the distortions he's come up with about me, so why do I have such faith in his reports about his childhood?
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« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2016, 12:00:59 AM »

I am thinking their genetically different brain structure causes a BPD's thought dysfunction. Only one time did my ex admit that he does not think like normal people think; that his thoughts are twisted from everyone else's reality.

I wonder if electroshock therapy helps? Not that a BPD person would ever subject themselves to that since they are often adamant that there is nothing wrong with them though.

My ex never bonded with his mother, maybe that made his young brain rewire itself wrong?



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« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2016, 12:04:38 AM »

Turkish, how much of your mother's story do you think is true? Any idea?
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« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2016, 12:21:56 AM »

Turkish, how much of your mother's story do you think is true? Any idea?

Oh, Turkish--I wrote that thinking you had written the post by apollotech about fabrication of abuse stories.  I thought you were saying you felt there might be fabrication.

Never mind!
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« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2016, 12:22:13 AM »

X-posted  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Turkish, how much of your mother's story do you think is true? Any idea?

All of it. It came out in bits and pieces over 20+ years. It was very matter-of-fact, rather than "woe-is-me, I demand attention."
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