Is there hope if the father continues the emotional abuse and wont get help?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I have been making some attempts towards reconciliation with exBPD partner, the father of D14 and S12 and for two months we seemed like a perfect family again, although on the relationship front I told him I need time to see how and if that can be rebuilt. He was diagnosed one year ago but abandoned CBT therapy after a couple of months.

But this week there has been an incident which has revived all the memories why I decided to leave him 3.5 years ago because his treatment of me and our kids.

Suddenly, one day when I was travelling away for work and staying the nigt in a hotel, I rang home to find that ":)addy hasnt spoken to us since he picked us up from school" he made meals and left them by themslves to eat. Silent treatment. D14 said he told her he wouldnt speak to her anymore as she spends too much time onnher cellphone.

I rang exBPD, he was friendly on the phone like nothing was going on, and inevitably the bare question about why he isnt talking into the kids turned into an angry rant about what had they said, complaining about their behaviour (they are good kids). I said its confusinf to be the wonderful dad one minute and silent the next. My son overheard the conversation and heard his Dad say he was a disappointment and he had hit rock bottom, and he cried.

When I got back I told exBPD it had upset me and it wasnt fair or kind treatment to children and he predictably turned it round to saying he was right to discipline them, it was because of finding our son had published a pornographic picture on line (this might have been true but happened a while ago, and I dont think this is abnormal or justifies the punishment) he had done nothing wrong, I had screamed at him and attacked him on phone (not true). I said I think he was having an "episode" and he said I am the one that is mentally ill, I am so full of anger I need to get myself treated.

All the time I was thinking SET, dont JADE, but I feel sad and upset and scared at his behaviour so the Sympathy and Empathy parts are very hard. It was actually difficult to get a S or E comment in while he hit back. But I kept the conversation short and then left the room. I wonder what I should have done... .

Once I would have been angry and in tears, but I am much more detached these days. And although I would like to be able to help him and make our family work I know it destroyed me before so theres not much hope.

I was going to ask younall the question, is there any chance of me being able to trust him or have a relationship again if episodes like this are going to continue? But I think I know the answer, I need to look after me and the kids, if he still wont acknowledge his behaviour is wrong or go back to CBT and acknowldge his illness I cannot really help him.

[Cmjo]

I have been making some attempts towards reconciliation with exBPD partner, the father of D14 and S12 and for two months we seemed like a perfect family again, although on the relationship front I told him I need time to see how and if that can be rebuilt. He was diagnosed one year ago but abandoned CBT therapy after a couple of months.

But this week there has been an incident which has revived all the memories why I decided to leave him 3.5 years ago because his treatment of me and our kids.

Suddenly, one day when I was travelling away for work and staying the nigt in a hotel, I rang home to find that ":)addy hasnt spoken to us since he picked us up from school" he made meals and left them by themslves to eat. Silent treatment. D14 said he told her he wouldnt speak to her anymore as she spends too much time onnher cellphone.

I rang exBPD, he was friendly on the phone like nothing was going on, and inevitably the bare question about why he isnt talking into the kids turned into an angry rant about what had they said, complaining about their behaviour (they are good kids). I said its confusinf to be the wonderful dad one minute and silent the next. My son overheard the conversation and heard his Dad say he was a disappointment and he had hit rock bottom, and he cried.

When I got back I told exBPD it had upset me and it wasnt fair or kind treatment to children and he predictably turned it round to saying he was right to discipline them, it was because of finding our son had published a pornographic picture on line (this might have been true but happened a while ago, and I dont think this is abnormal or justifies the punishment) he had done nothing wrong, I had screamed at him and attacked him on phone (not true). I said I think he was having an "episode" and he said I am the one that is mentally ill, I am so full of anger I need to get myself treated.

All the time I was thinking SET, dont JADE, but I feel sad and upset and scared at his behaviour so the Sympathy and Empathy parts are very hard. It was actually difficult to get a S or E comment in while he hit back. But I kept the conversation short and then left the room. I wonder what I should have done... .

Once I would have been angry and in tears, but I am much more detached these days. And although I would like to be able to help him and make our family work I know it destroyed me before so theres not much hope.

I was going to ask younall the question, is there any chance of me being able to trust him or have a relationship again if episodes like this are going to continue? But I think I know the answer, I need to look after me and the kids, if he still wont acknowledge his behaviour is wrong or go back to CBT and acknowldge his illness I cannot really help him.

[Teereese]

  Cmjo

To answer the question in your topic title ... .no.

I have been where you are now. It is not a good place. I felt stuck ... .in limbo. I was somewhat detached, more able to minimize or deal with the rages and such. My children faced day to day silent treatment, rages, dysregulation. From about 12 years old to 16 years old was the absolute worst for them. He began to punish them in order to punish me.

I know for me, I could never truly trust him and once I began to detach, the relationship was essentially over.

I didn't cause it, I couldn't control it and I couldn't cure it. I gave up all ownership for his illness.

I got off his back, got out of his way and got on with my life... .which enraged him.

[Cmjo]

Yes I sort of knew that was the answer... .

I still believe their father is capable of change, we will both be 50 this year, his behaviour is very ingrained but he does want desperately to save his family.

I have detached massively and have learnt about boundaries. I am sure about my values, I believe people should show kindness and respect, if he gives children silent treatment that is abusive and damaging. Our children deserve and need their parents to set an example in behaviour. The sudden retreat into silent treatment after two months calm and good behaviour is not acceptable. I told him that there is no possibility for us to revive our relationship unless he deals with that behaviour.

By calmly and kindly stating these values even in the face of denial, turning everything round to me accusing me of mental illness... .not rising to the bait or getting angry or being offensive back, maybe using these boundaries will help, already I see incidents becoming less frequent.

I spoke yesterday to the CBT therapist that he saw after his diagnosis last year, she says he was in therapy saying he was doing it for me and his children, there is no point him coming back unless he is doing it for himself. But in the meantime she has referred me to a therpist from the same centre for me to start seeing for support, it is an excellend centre specialising in personality disorders, one of the few in this country (Italy).

I will stick with that and stick to my boundaries.

[ForeverDad]

"and wont get help" is the key factor.  While some people have gotten better without therapy, it's not typical.  And while you can support any positive changes, fixing is up to him.  Even if he does improve on his own to some extent, a relapse back to old patterns is a real concern.  While no one can say 'Never', only he can answer the question of whether he will overcome the odds of making sufficient lasting improvements.

My opinion, based on my own failed marriage and other experiences here, is whether he will overcome (or chip away at) the Denial of his issues.  That would be a good First Step.  As far as I can tell, my Ex didn't.

[Cmjo]

Thank you!

I tried three years of living separately, and have moved back with him to try to give the kids more stability, We have a big house and I have taken over the downstairs space and am physically independent.

Im happy with the decision so far but after 4 months of bliss he is beginning to deregulate again, and subjecting kids to silent treatment when I am at work. When I get home and they tell me, I ask if he is ok and he says yes of course, why not? Splitting them black and me white. This morning singing, I dont dare to listen to the words as he has been known to make up songs with how he is feeling talking about how eveil I am.

I am treading carefully. I have accepted that 90 per cent of the time he acts normal and am happy to be back together. I accept that I tried to leave and was always doubting I had done the right thing. But now have to accept that in times like this he has abandoned me and them and I am alone. I have to be mother and father to them and partner to myself for a few days. They know I am unswervingly there for them. I would like to be there for him too. But for the kast three years (out of fifteen) I know he is ill. im going to see a BPD specialist to talk too. Possibly he wouod start going back to this therapy he did briefly after his diagnosis which was on,y one year ago. We are back at square one, and I think I will keep hope alive, not so much of him recovering magically, but of a steady path of mostly a happy life with hiccups along the way and giving our kids the best I can in a difficult situation, teaching them the tools I have found here in this supportive community!

[livednlearned]

Hi Cmjo,

There are some useful relationship skills addressed on the Improving board that may help now that you are living together again.

How do the kids feel after being exposed to a silent treatment? It is the behavior that most devastated my son. He is almost 15 and has told me that the ST was worse than the verbal abuse.  :'(

[Cmjo]

The ST was worse for D 14 back when she was age 10-11. He heaped presents on our son and only shouted goodbye to him when he left the house. She bottled it up though, she wont talk about it now, at the time I know it really hurt. This was the moment I realised the issue was BPD.

Now things have changed its S12 who gets thr ST, and D14 can do no wrong. S12 is very open in talking to me about it. He is mystified at his Dads behaviour.

Deep down he is very hurt I know. His Dad picks him up from school without looking at him or speaking to hm. He feels total rejection, he talks to me sometimes in a baby voice, needs lots of affection, sees me as his only support, it is making him regress. And angry so he becomes moody on and off quickly. Its awful but he has no other male role models, we dont have many close relatives around, I keep telling hm his father's behaviour is not his fault, he has done nothing wrong, not to take it personally. I have mentioned BPD and Dad not beeing well, constantly over the last three years.

Its got me really down today. I arranged for S12 to go to friends after school to avoid him being alone with BPDh while I was at work.

I only saw BPDh briefly today, asking him a few times if he is ok, he says of course, pretends nothing is happening. But I just cant hide my feelings or pretend, I said I am upset he is not talking to his son, he says its our son not talking to him... .I know a conversation or any insight from him is out of the question, so I just had to end the discussion before it started, everyone gone off to bed now feeling low and sad.