His friend gave me a massage and so now I'm 'acting' like a sl()t.

[misuniadziubek]

So my pwBPD and I go to his best friend's house.

His best Friend, C, is also one of my closer friends and we've hung out before. It's a strange friendship though, because pwBPD considers said friend like his 'soulmate'. They've been friends for 6 years now. My pwBPD have been friends for 4, dated for 3, so in some ways C trumps me.

C is very touchy, feely and sometimes a little manipulative, but all in all I feel pretty safe around him.

We're all sitting around a table and my pwBPD has his laptop in front of him. He's playing a video game.

I feel pretty comfortable and in between conversation I make a silly joke at his expense, something along the lines of 'you make a pretty girl.' 

There's no real reason for him to get too offended. He makes those sorts of innocent jokes at me all the time.

But he punches me in the arm. And my arm is still pretty sore from last week when someone with a developmental  disability got a bit too aggressive and hit me repeatedly in the arm.

And it hurts. And I tear up and go, "why the f* do you have to be such an ass." He just shrugs and says "That's what you get."

But I've got PTSD and the whole thing pushes me into a flashback and so I go really numb. And suddenly his friend has put his arms around me and hugs me. And it feels so wonderful. I need that physical connection so badly when I'm flashing back. And he starts to play with my hair.

And eventually he starts to massage my shoulders and asks if it feels okay. I'm like. "I'm great. Better than with pwBPD." I say sarcastically.

It was a jab at my pwBPD.

I wanted a reaction out of pwBPD. I wanted him to know that he hurt me and that I'm mad, it was completely unrelated to said friend, who was pretty much doing what I wanted my pwBPD to do.

But flashbacks are like that with me. I become like a small naive child, desperate to feel connection and to get a response.

I know it's immature. I know it's not constructive and it made my pwBPD angrier, but it was me acting out.

He massaged me for a good 10 minutes. I have scoliosis and a upper limb back and shoulder defect, so massages actually help me feel less pain.

And my thought process at this point was that he's massaged me before in front of my pwBPD and it has never been a big deal. He's always been fine with that. There's absolutely nothing sexual in it for me. Friends helping out friends. Maybe that's a naive thought, but I've always been adamant about talking with my pwBPD about what is and isn't okay.

So C leaves and I change seats to ask my pwBPD if he's okay. He barely responds. He's furious. He keeps staring at his computer screen.

I ask him what's wrong.

"You decided to act like an a-hole and now you got what you wanted."

I'm like, "You punched me, you know that my arm is sore af. I need you not to do that. I was just angry with you."

He responds with. "Whatever. Do what you're doing. I don't care anymore. You wanted this. You've got it."

He doesn't speak to me on ride home or when we go to bed.

I wake up the next morning and try to get him to talk to me. I'm not exactly sure why he is so angry.

He finally explodes. I was trying to make him jealous so I had another guy massage me. I was being a complete s|ut and doing the same sh*t as his ex-gf used to. Apparently all girls turn to the same tactics to be a ho when they are mad.

What.

Sigh.

One event wasn't related to the other in my head, so I'm extremely surprised that he saw it that way. I try to explain to him that I wasn't trying to act like H0e or make him jealous. I only said those things because I was super pi$sed off at him for punching me.

I don't feel the need to EVER make him feel jealous. I feel very secure in my relationship, otherwise I would never let anyone do any such thing.

He's like... ."The way you guys were, if I wasn't there, it might as well have lead to sex."

He doesn't believe me. He says you can't throw a ball in a hoop and claim you aren't playing basketball.

I refute it. He's our mutual friend. If it was any other guy, then I wouldn't let him touch me. I remind him that he knows how strong my physical boundaries are when I don't consent to something.

He's like, "You act that way with my friend, and then expect me to believe you wouldn't do that with a stranger."

It's all so very convoluted.

I told him that I knew that I acted very immaturely, but I want him to forgive me. And also to stop punching me. Eventually we hugged.

But still. Just kind of shocked at the change in perspective. If we're good, then everything is fine. If he's mad, then I'm acting like a s(ut?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Grey Kitty]

You were emotionally overwhelmed. You were immature and lashed out at your pwBPD. You acknowledged it to yourself, and apologized to him.

And eventually he starts to massage my shoulders and asks if it feels okay. I'm like. "I'm great. Better than with pwBPD." I say sarcastically.

It was a jab at my pwBPD.

I wanted a reaction out of pwBPD. I wanted him to know that he hurt me and that I'm mad, it was completely unrelated to said friend, who was pretty much doing what I wanted my pwBPD to do.

But flashbacks are like that with me. I become like a small naive child, desperate to feel connection and to get a response.

Your pwBPD was emotionally overwhelmed. Your pwBPD was immature and lashed out at you.

But still. Just kind of shocked at the change in perspective. If we're good, then everything is fine. If he's mad, then I'm acting like a s(ut?

He doesn't have your capacity to acknowledge it to himself, or to apologize to you for it.

When he lashes out at you that way, especially when you KNOW that you weren't planning to sleep with his best friend C, no matter what your pwBPD says about it, try not to take it so personally.

What he's really telling you is that he's upset, jealous, hurt, afraid of being rejected by you, etc., etc. Believe that those feelings are real. And understand the other words he uses aren't true, and that you don't have to take them personally, or believe that what he says is true.

Does this perspective help?

[misuniadziubek]

You were emotionally overwhelmed. You were immature and lashed out at your pwBPD. You acknowledged it to yourself, and apologized to him.

Your pwBPD was emotionally overwhelmed. Your pwBPD was immature and lashed out at you.

He doesn't have your capacity to acknowledge it to himself, or to apologize to you for it.

When he lashes out at you that way, especially when you KNOW that you weren't planning to sleep with his best friend C, no matter what your pwBPD says about it, try not to take it so personally.

What he's really telling you is that he's upset, jealous, hurt, afraid of being rejected by you, etc., etc. Believe that those feelings are real. And understand the other words he uses aren't true, and that you don't have to take them personally, or believe that what he says is true.

Does this perspective help?

Absolutely. I understood the gist of it before, but I really needed to vent, because it was hurtful nonetheless.

I guess it makes me sad, because I empathize. I know how difficult it is to think rationally when you are emotional or triggered by something. It makes me sad that he feels those things but he doesn't have the capacity to express it to me in the moment. And I know what that's like too. I spent so much time unable to even sense my own emotions.

In a perfect world, I wish he would just take me aside and explain to me how my actions are making him feel. I don't want to escalate the situation further. Had I known why he was genuinely angry, I would have worked more at validating his fears rather than perpetuating them.

I triggered a reaction and wasn't aware. The situation reminded him of the ex-gf that used to intentionally do those sorts of things to him all the time and repeatedly cheated on him and lied to him.

I can't be everything at once, though. I empathize, sure, but he does need to learn these lessons himself. Maybe he will one day. Who knows?

It's just funny because when I mentioned that the friend initiated the physical contact, he retorted: I don't care about what C did. He's fine. You're the one I'm mad at.

At first I was kind of mad, that somehow C is blameless in anything that happens, but your response has made me realise, he doesn't care about C, because C remains his friend. He isn't afraid of losing him. My actions, on the other hand, triggered him into a panic, because it's far easier for me to abandon him.

When I pushed about the punching thing (I'm seriously so tired of getting punched when I make jokes even in private) he told me today that he is used to doing that because he grew up like that always doing that sort of stuff with his dad and his brother and it's a hard habit to break. I told him it's no excuse. I'm his girlfriend and I am not comfortable with it and he is making me feel really bad when he does it.

[Notwendy]

I feel pretty comfortable and in between conversation I make a silly joke at his expense, something along the lines of 'you make a pretty girl.'  

There's no real reason for him to get too offended. He makes those sorts of innocent jokes at me all the time.

But he punches me in the arm. And my arm is still pretty sore from last week when someone with a developmental  disability got a bit too aggressive and hit me repeatedly in the arm.

And it hurts. And I tear up and go, "why the f* do you have to be such an ass." He just shrugs and says "That's what you get."



Hi Miz, I am highlighting these statements because they are what started this. While the first statement may have been made in fun, these kinds of things are triggering to people who have a poor self image. It may not happen every time, but it is kind of like poking at a sleeping snake. (the person isn't a snake- it's the part of them that gets triggered and lashes out) . A triggered person will lash out, as he did. Not that hitting you is justified- that part is not, but he lashes out when provoked.

Best to just not do these joking digs. They can be triggering and hurtful.

People with BPD have trouble connecting with people. What happened with you and his friend was not sexual but it was a connection. The friend comforted you after he hit you. He connected with your hurt, but your BF did not. At the moment, BF was probably feeling shame for doing this, especially in front of the friend. To him, that made him look bad. He projected that on to you.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with being connected to friends or family. However, sometimes partners of pw BPD can become isolated in response to the feelings of their SO's who are uncomfortable with this.

[formflier]

I used to be able to be sarcastic around my wife.  Now I just don't go there.

I also try to make sure I don't do that, sarcasm, with others when she is around becàuse she "picks up", That I treat her differently.

It is one of those things that " just is".

Likely you will need to get to a place like that with these kind of jokes.

 

FF

[misuniadziubek]

I used to be able to be sarcastic around my wife.  Now I just don't go there.

It is one of those things that " just is".

Likely you will need to get to a place like that with these kind of jokes

There's no real reason for him to get too offended. He makes those sorts of innocent jokes at me all the time.

But he punches me in the arm. And my arm is still pretty sore from last week when someone with a developmental  disability got a bit too aggressive and hit me repeatedly in the arm.

And it hurts. And I tear up and go, "why the f* do you have to be such an ass." He just shrugs and says "That's what you get."

Hi Miz, I am highlighting these statements because they are what started this. While the first statement may have been made in fun, these kinds of things are triggering to people who have a poor self image. It may not happen every time, but it is kind of like poking at a sleeping snake. (the person isn't a snake- it's the part of them that gets triggered and lashes out) . A triggered person will lash out, as he did. Not that hitting you is justified- that part is not, but he lashes out when provoked.

Best to just not do these joking digs. They can be triggering and hurtful.

I think both of you are right regarding the sarcasm, it's a reflex from a trigger.

But honestly, I have trouble truly accepting this.

Because he does this to me non-stop. All the time. And when we're in private it's not too terrible. It's interspersed with a lot of small loving statements and if I confront him about the small jabs then he tells me that there's no difference in intention. They all signify that he feels close to me or wants my attention.

And ironically, somehow through habit and some deep communication about needs, we've both managed to limit it when we're around other people. When we're out and about we're advocates for each other. The jokes are very tame and we don't make each other look bad. That's worked out perfectly.

But whenever we go to this friend, pwBPD becomes an extreme the other way. I don't know if it's because he used to live with this friend or they are this close. Without any provocation on my part, he'll start to pick on me, be rude to me, and do things physically that are barely acceptable when we're alone. I tell a joke to this friend and my pwBPD will flat out tell me to shut up because my jokes are terrible and no one wants to hear from me and punch me in the knee or pull me down so I nearly topple over. And if I get angry he laughs it off. His friend won't react.

If I get mad and say anything in retaliation, bad reaction.

If I get mad and say I'm not in the mood for this and walk away, I'm being -bitshy- and acting just like a woman. He'll laugh at me and tell me that I deserved it.

If I try to have any normal decent conversation with this friend, I'm met with disdain and further abuse. Everything I say is boring or bad, and I should just stay silent.

And if I stay silent, then I'm being antisocial and 'this is why he doesn't take me to friends'.

It's like he feels like he needs to show that he dominates his relationship to his friend or he wants his friend all to himself. I honestly don't know what.

But he makes me feel terrible. He's more verbally abusive and way more likely to get mad and shut down entirely. I truly don't recognize him when we're around this friend. 

C is the person who talked to a former girl friend of mine and found out that she had a friend who was being physically abused in her relationship. C assumed it was me and told it to my pwBPD. This resulted in more of an intense dysregulation in pwBPD than I've ever seen. He was convinced that I betrayed him. I didn't feel like my relationship was physically abusive at the time, but C witnessed pwBPD punch me after I'd fallen asleep on the couch and woke up and decided it wasn't too far-fetched. He was just looking out for his best friend.

People with BPD have trouble connecting with people. What happened with you and his friend was not sexual but it was a connection. The friend comforted you after he hit you. He connected with your hurt, but your BF did not. At the moment, BF was probably feeling shame for doing this, especially in front of the friend. To him, that made him look bad. He projected that on to you.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with being connected to friends or family. However, sometimes partners of pw BPD can become isolated in response to the feelings of their SO's who are uncomfortable with this. 

He does this sort of thing in front of his friend all the time. He says it's just "kidding around" but I could be screaming bloody murder for him to stop and he'd just laugh it off with his friend.

But I agree with the connection part and the jealousy. Last time said friend massaged me, I was sitting next my pwBPD holding his hand so there was no room for jealousy.

It made him feel jealous, so he projected it onto me for trying to make him feel jealous. I told C that he made me realise I should get some real massages because they would help my upper shoulder tension. C said "oh this isn't good enough?" And I sheepishly corrected myself and told him that they were 'that good' that it made me want more. PwBPD ignored everything but the last sentence and called me disgusting.

Idk. It's all a work in progress. But I will definitely heed your advice on limiting the jabs at him.

[Grey Kitty]

Sarcasm is a funny thing. I found these forums four years ago. When I found the lessons, I started working not avoiding invalidation, and being more validating. Not just with my wife, but with everybody I interact with. I've been glad I did.

While doing this, I've mostly dropped being sarcastic from my life... .and I these days I only do it rarely with my most special and most trusted friends, who know and trust me enough to know when I'm joking/teasing. I've also noticed is that my "attempts" to be sarcastic/teasing/funny will occasionally fall on the wrong side and end up hurting somebody in a way that I never intended. And my willingness to risk this just to be funny is way less than it used to be.

Conclusion 1: Using sarcasm with a pwBPD is a bad risk. Just don't go there anymore.

Because he does this to me non-stop. All the time. And when we're in private it's not too terrible. It's interspersed with a lot of small loving statements and if I confront him about the small jabs then he tells me that there's no difference in intention. They all signify that he feels close to me or wants my attention.

Conclusion 2: A pwBPD does a particularly bad job of staying on the fun/teasing side and avoiding the hurtful/abusive side of sarcasm. Don't let him go there anymore either.

I'd recommend you treat sarcasm from your pwBPD like you treat other verbal abuse from your pwBPD. Enforce a boundary of not being present / not tolerating it aimed at you.

Trying to explain/convince him that it is hurtful to you is a losing proposition--you end up JADEing all over the place, and turn it into an argument.

But whenever we go to this friend, pwBPD becomes an extreme the other way. [... .] Without any provocation on my part, he'll start to pick on me, be rude to me, and do things physically that are barely acceptable when we're alone. [... .]

If I get mad and say I'm not in the mood for this and walk away, I'm being -bitshy- and acting just like a woman. He'll laugh at me and tell me that I deserved it.

[... .]

It's like he feels like he needs to show that he dominates his relationship to his friend or he wants his friend all to himself. I honestly don't know what.

But he makes me feel terrible. He's more verbally abusive and way more likely to get mad and shut down entirely. I truly don't recognize him when we're around this friend. 

It sounds like spending time with your pwBPD and this friend together is simply a losing proposition for you. Avoid it when you can, and be ready to end it immediately when it does happen.

And while "get mad, say you aren't in the mood and walk away" isn't the best response, I'd say that it works. Let him accuse you of being -bitshy- or whatever he wants to.

Better practice is just to say "I won't be treated/spoken to this way" and walk away, calmly, not mad.