It's gotten a lot harder after the baby

[Depression = 72% of members]

Within the first month of dating my wife was upfront with me about being diagnosed with bipolar disorder for several years and being on medication for it.  I appreciated the honesty and did research but didn't see anything that I would have been able to interpret as warning signs.  She seemed stable on all fronts that I was equipped to evaluate.

I was upfront with what I expected out of a romantic relationship.  One of the biggest is being partners and putting in equal effort.  I felt my previous relationship was greatly skewed against my efforts and contributions.  I took great pains to explain that effort did not equal money (especially since I have always made so much more than her).  Effort to me is more chores, working toward our shared and separate goals, etc.

We married within six months and bought a house a year later.  Again, I wasn't able detect any major warning signs. 

However, it did start to manifest itself within that year via a creeping dissatisfaction with her job.  During the house purchasing process she would call me asking me if it was ok to quit, not because it was an awful place to work or abusive but because of a sense of entitlement that it wasn't worth her education and didn't pay as much as mine.  While I was supportive of her finding a new job, I was adamant that she needed to keep working.  She had loans and her own set of hobbies to pay for and I didn't feel it would be fair for her to quit and rely on me to support her (especially since I was paying the entirety of housing, car insurances, etc).  It eventually fell on deaf ears and she quit.

On one hand she never asked me for money.  On the other she didn't have to because her father gave us a considerable sum of money for home improvements.  Since it was from him, I didn't feel it was my place to point out that she was spending against those improvements.  However, it did make for a slightly tight financial time when we'd pulled the trigger to have the work done for those improvements and I had to come up with the balance.

She was originally convinced she could find the "right" job within a month.  After two months of disappointment she stopped looking.  Within six months she was back to work again at a job not much different than what she left except it was a much closer commute.  Overall though, part of my confidence in her was shattered and I felt it was only a matter of time before she quit again.

About a month into the job, she was pregnant.  It was planned and she did great throughout, working up to the final month.  My feeling about equal effort was still there but modified over the circumstances where I was satisfied with her contribution of healthily carrying the baby and an agreed upon six month postpartum recovery.  In other words, without a baby I wouldn't have helped with her student loans or other money necessities, but carrying a baby?  Of course!

Nearly six months later she's gone back to work and the baby is in daycare during the week.  I'm the one that drops him off and picks him up.  I've also been the one that has been taking care of post-pickup chores like washing his bottles and doing his laundry.  And that's where things reached its recent head... .

Last night we both forgot that she had therapy after work and wouldnt be back until well after he was asleep.  Even though I was very tired it was fine and I watched the baby and did the post-pickup chores like usual.  However, she wanted to start him in non-disposable diapers this week and he had a couple of blowouts in them yesterday.  I cleaned the blowouts from the outfits and given the rest of the work I did that evening, I felt it was more than fair for her to clean out the diapers (it's not like I have an aversion to it).  I wouldn't exactly call going to therapy "her time" but I would definitely call going out to a nice restaurant and taking the long way back to drive in her new car and watching TV until midnight as "her time".

This morning after I came back home from dropping him off at daycare, she asked me to clean the diapers.  I work from home but that doesn't mean I can be counted upon or expected to do household chores.  I also didn't feel that it was fair for her not to do them.  Still I told her if I could find the time, I would and... .

... .as you can guess that answer was not good enough.  The only acceptable answer was "Of course I'll do it".  When I tried to explain as I do in these cases where she thinks that since I work from home I can do it all and that explain I have work to do (that brings in the bulk of our income) and would try to do what she was asking but couldn't guarantee it, she blew up and threw it in my face that it would only take a few minutes to do and when I asked why she couldn't do them either last night or this morning or to come back during her lunch hour, of course it was time to deflect.  We ended the conversation with me yelling at her to grow up.

So much for getting much work done this morning.  I was worked up, needed some help, came across some good resources, and eventually found myself here. 

[Cheebus98]

Within the first month of dating my wife was upfront with me about being diagnosed with bipolar disorder for several years and being on medication for it.  I appreciated the honesty and did research but didn't see anything that I would have been able to interpret as warning signs.  She seemed stable on all fronts that I was equipped to evaluate.

I was upfront with what I expected out of a romantic relationship.  One of the biggest is being partners and putting in equal effort.  I felt my previous relationship was greatly skewed against my efforts and contributions.  I took great pains to explain that effort did not equal money (especially since I have always made so much more than her).  Effort to me is more chores, working toward our shared and separate goals, etc.

We married within six months and bought a house a year later.  Again, I wasn't able detect any major warning signs. 

However, it did start to manifest itself within that year via a creeping dissatisfaction with her job.  During the house purchasing process she would call me asking me if it was ok to quit, not because it was an awful place to work or abusive but because of a sense of entitlement that it wasn't worth her education and didn't pay as much as mine.  While I was supportive of her finding a new job, I was adamant that she needed to keep working.  She had loans and her own set of hobbies to pay for and I didn't feel it would be fair for her to quit and rely on me to support her (especially since I was paying the entirety of housing, car insurances, etc).  It eventually fell on deaf ears and she quit.

On one hand she never asked me for money.  On the other she didn't have to because her father gave us a considerable sum of money for home improvements.  Since it was from him, I didn't feel it was my place to point out that she was spending against those improvements.  However, it did make for a slightly tight financial time when we'd pulled the trigger to have the work done for those improvements and I had to come up with the balance.

She was originally convinced she could find the "right" job within a month.  After two months of disappointment she stopped looking.  Within six months she was back to work again at a job not much different than what she left except it was a much closer commute.  Overall though, part of my confidence in her was shattered and I felt it was only a matter of time before she quit again.

About a month into the job, she was pregnant.  It was planned and she did great throughout, working up to the final month.  My feeling about equal effort was still there but modified over the circumstances where I was satisfied with her contribution of healthily carrying the baby and an agreed upon six month postpartum recovery.  In other words, without a baby I wouldn't have helped with her student loans or other money necessities, but carrying a baby?  Of course!

Nearly six months later she's gone back to work and the baby is in daycare during the week.  I'm the one that drops him off and picks him up.  I've also been the one that has been taking care of post-pickup chores like washing his bottles and doing his laundry.  And that's where things reached its recent head... .

Last night we both forgot that she had therapy after work and wouldnt be back until well after he was asleep.  Even though I was very tired it was fine and I watched the baby and did the post-pickup chores like usual.  However, she wanted to start him in non-disposable diapers this week and he had a couple of blowouts in them yesterday.  I cleaned the blowouts from the outfits and given the rest of the work I did that evening, I felt it was more than fair for her to clean out the diapers (it's not like I have an aversion to it).  I wouldn't exactly call going to therapy "her time" but I would definitely call going out to a nice restaurant and taking the long way back to drive in her new car and watching TV until midnight as "her time".

This morning after I came back home from dropping him off at daycare, she asked me to clean the diapers.  I work from home but that doesn't mean I can be counted upon or expected to do household chores.  I also didn't feel that it was fair for her not to do them.  Still I told her if I could find the time, I would and... .

... .as you can guess that answer was not good enough.  The only acceptable answer was "Of course I'll do it".  When I tried to explain as I do in these cases where she thinks that since I work from home I can do it all and that explain I have work to do (that brings in the bulk of our income) and would try to do what she was asking but couldn't guarantee it, she blew up and threw it in my face that it would only take a few minutes to do and when I asked why she couldn't do them either last night or this morning or to come back during her lunch hour, of course it was time to deflect.  We ended the conversation with me yelling at her to grow up.

So much for getting much work done this morning.  I was worked up, needed some help, came across some good resources, and eventually found myself here. 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

Welcome to this board Cheesbus. The lessons to the right of this page are good ways to start. If your goal is to improve your relationship, then understanding your part in it is an important step.

Marriage is a relationship that can undergo changes over a long period of time. The challenge is to use this commitment to grow through these changes. Certainly, the addition of a new baby is one of those major changes.

When conflict over things like diapers becomes a major issue, then this can be a symptom of underlying communications, frustrations, and unmet expectations. One doesn't really have a way to predict what life is like with a new baby. Change is stressful- yet this is the beginning of many changes to come- parenting a school age child, a teen, a college student and so on.

Few marriages are such that everything is 50-50. One partner may earn more money, do more chores, have more or less desire for sex. Some of these positions involve power and control, but using these elements in a marriage doesn't lead to harmony between two people.  While being co-dependent- taking on more than one's share of contributions to the marriage is not desirable, I don't think taking inventory of who does what too exactly works well either. If someone has a mental illness, then they could conceivably feel overwhelmed by their contribution, even if the other spouse is doing more. Part of our work is to practice acceptance. It could be that a different balance is what works in your marriage. One very positive is that your wife is working. I would encourage that for both of you. Working is a source of personal satisfaction and self image and this is not only based on wages earned. So even if your wife earns less than you, her job could have much value to her. Yet, working may also take much from her and she may also feel overwhelmed. This isn't about doing "more" or "less" than you. You are different people and both of you  may be doing the best you can. While you may wish she is doing more, being judgmental about her contribution may not serve your relationship well.

Another important consideration is the baby. The baby is innocent, and completely dependent on his caretakers. His needs have to be met, no matter who does what. In the case where one person refuses care, then the other parent has to take it on, or hire someone. I don't know how to force a parent to do more, but IMHO, a resentful parent isn't  in a position to be the best for the baby.

Self care is important here as well. If one parent is taking up much of the job, he/she can become overwhelmed. This is where you can consider ways to make your life easier. If you can afford it, maybe get a sitter to have some "me " time. One thing to consider is the diapers. It may have been a nice idea to not use disposables - but if nobody wants to clean cloth diapers, then a quick solution is to use disposables.

This isn't a solution to the issues in your marriage, but we can pick our battles while learning ways to handle marital conflict.

The lessons are a good place to start.

[Lady Adur]

Hi Cheesbus,

I just wanted to say that I share your frustrations. I have a three week old baby with my BPD boyfriend. My boyfriend does very little in the way of chores and although he works full time he makes no contribution financially. If I try and ask him to do more he tells me he can't cope with the pressure and reminds me he has a mental illness. He constantly tells me that if he is put under too much pressure then he will leave and I will have to manage alone. I share your view that relationships should be 50/50 or as close as possible but I have had to accept that because of his BPD I will always have to shoulder more. I just never know how much more is reasonable. Some days I feel like I can't cope but leaving is not an option.

I find myself longing for a partner who will share the load and that makes me feel guilty because I love my boyfriend.

[globalnomad]

This morning after I came back home from dropping him off at daycare, she asked me to clean the diapers.  I work from home but that doesn't mean I can be counted upon or expected to do household chores.  I also didn't feel that it was fair for her not to do them.  Still I told her if I could find the time, I would and... .

... .as you can guess that answer was not good enough.  The only acceptable answer was "Of course I'll do it".  When I tried to explain as I do in these cases where she thinks that since I work from home I can do it all and that explain I have work to do (that brings in the bulk of our income) and would try to do what she was asking but couldn't guarantee it, she blew up and threw it in my face that it would only take a few minutes to do and when I asked why she couldn't do them either last night or this morning or to come back during her lunch hour, of course it was time to deflect.  We ended the conversation with me yelling at her to grow up.

Hi Cheebus. Welcome to the forum. I can certainly sympathize with you here. I have a job that occasionally allows me to work from home. I have discovered, however, that working from home usually only leads to trouble. If I am there, my wife expects me to be running around changing diapers, cleaning, and doing a million other things she considers urgent at the time. If I am inattentive to these requests because I have work to do, she gets upset. I'm not sure what it is, but pwBPD seem to have enormous trouble thinking in shades of gray. Either you are there for her (great) or you are not (terrrible). There is no in between.

I generally avoid working from home now. When I do I set clear boundaries. I will be busy from xx to xx with the door closed. I let her know I'll take a break at time xx, and can take care of any chores then and only then. This seems to work better.

[Cheebus98]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. 

For the record, I was able to find time that day to clean the diaper covers.  But I resented the hell out of given how that conversation went down.

Notwendy: You're right I appreciate that she works.  With that she's able to pay for her "stuff" I feel like she's contributing and that's a load off my mind. 

globalnomad, I hear what you're saying about working for home but it's not an option for me.  My business office is across the country.

I meant to respond sooner, but things have been sort of on the mend since then... .until now.  I'm a bit steamed again and I hope this doesn't become a pattern of me just coming here to vent.

We both came down with colds over the weekend.  She was fine to me this morning helping me get the baby for daycare.  I came back after dropping the baby off, and she was getting ready for work.  Out of nowhere she starts screaming.  I was grinding coffee so I couldn't make out what she was saying.  She came into the kitchen and started screaming about how congested she was and blaming a pharmacist last week for convincing her to not buy Sudafed and she wouldn't have time to pick any up before work.  It was the kind of rage screaming that I don't feel comfortable getting engaging her so I didn't say anything.  She was upset, I understood and let her continue to vent... .until out of nowhere she said it:

"But you don't care do you?"

That triggered me and we had another round like last week (which by the way doesn't happen very frequently).  She directed a torrent of stuff to me and I eventually responded with, "I might have cared earlier but I certainly don't now!" 

During this argument, she brought out one of her tricks which is one of the hardest elements for me during these elevated states is she'll say something an immediately deny it.  Like this:

Her: "You drop something on the floor and you blame me!"

Me: "What?  I never blame you for that kind of thing!  I'm admonishing myself!  Why are you saying I'm blaming you?"

Her: (with a smug look on your face) "I never said that you blame me!"

Me: "You just did!"

He: (smug) "No.  I.  Didn't."

That accusation then denial of that accusation drives me insane.

(for reference she was referencing occasions where I screw something up and curse myself like "Goddamit Cheebus98!"  Like dropping some food on the floor yesterday.  I always understand that it's my fault and there has never ever been a time when I thought she was to blame and certainly never a time when I ever have said, "Goddammit wife-of-Cheebus98!"

The discussion continued to spiral out of control until she stormed out.

Honestly, before the "But you don't care" line, if she asked me to go to the drug store to pick up some Sudafed and drop it off to her at work, I would have!  The "problem" is I probably would have grumbled about it (as in an unhappy response of "*sigh* Yes, I'll do it" not anything antagonistic) since I was trying to get ready for my full day of work in front of me but I would have done it because I knew she wasn't feeling well. 

I assume that her responding thought must have been along the lines of "Him saying he'll do it but he's not going to be happy about it is no better than saying he won't do it" is, similar to my response from the diaper cleaning incident last week ("if I can find the time, I'll do it". 

Is this a demonstration of BPD's "black and white" thinking?

One of the more unfortunate problems her outbursts tend to directly trigger my own issues.  When those happen it's very hard for me to take myself out of it to look at the situation objectively.  On the few occasions where those didn't intersect (e.g.,she brought up something that didn't trigger my damage) I was able to keep a cool head and it helped me to steer the discussion for the better.

Any tips or tools to help on how I can do better when I'm triggered like that?

[Stanfran]

I would like to know better tools as well

Thank you

[Notwendy]

We can actually control and even get rid of our triggers if we take the perspective that they are ours- not someone doing something to us. For something to trigger is- we need to have some emotional connection to the trigger. This connection is our own feelings and insecurities. We can even look at being triggered as an opportunity to learn about the source of these feelings. Often it isn't the spouse but some childhood issue that gets triggered.

Developing personal boundaries helps too. If someone says something or thinks something about us, it does not mean we have to accept any truth in that if we don't think it is true. Often in relationships we can be enmeshed and not be aware of the boundary between where one person ends and the others begins. Someone's thoughts are not ours. We don't need to defend or try to change what isn't true.

A first step is when triggered to take a time out. Say " I need to think about that" . We can learn to do this and not react, not JADE , not ignore it but simply say " I need a moment to think". Then we can wait until we calm down. We may need to discuss the trigger with a T or sponsor but we can step out and not react.

One tool is to imagine that someone has called us a pink elephant. Would this trigger us? Not likely because we are quite certain we are not pink elephants and someone thinking we are does not make us one. We may think that person is crazy but we would not feel hurt, dwell on it, or try to prove we are not a pink elephant. It is likely we would walk away and not be upset and even forget it, instead of the feeling, brooding, and hurt we feel over triggers.

The next step is if accused of something that is not true or reacting with hurt, put the trigger to the pink elephant test. Imagine you were called a pink elephant. If it isn't true- then it won't hurt you. If you did hurt someone's feelings or wrong them, then you can calmly apologize. Not being triggered is a win win in both cases as it will let you stay calm and have clarity.

[Notwendy]

Saying "you don't care" is ignoring a boundary. She is telling you how you are feeling- defining your reality. Our reality is our own . Others do not get to define it. If she is disordered than that is her problem- a sad one - but you define how you feel. If you are certain that you care - what she says isn't true- then it isn't. So you don't have to defend it or try to fix it by doing something to prove you care. That validates her truth and reinforces her ability to get you to change your plans to prove you care.

Since what she wants is for you to change your plans - another response isn't likely to result in a positive response from her. She may accuse you of not caring but that isn't true. You could say " I'm sorry you feel that way,  I am off to do x. Love you bye. Or no I do not wish to do X. This won't be easy but neither is appeasement working to change the dynamics between you. Appeasement only buys a moment reprieve while reinforcing the dynamics between you.