Hello. New here. Wish I had known...

[BrokenClock]

I'm following the advice to introduce myself. I'm a man that has been struggling with my BPD partner for almost 10 years now. After a string of especially horrific infidelities, we went to counseling. BPD came up almost immediately. She is a absolute textbook case high functioning BPD. She admitted she was formally diagnosed long ago. So casual about it, "Ohh yea I already knew that, so what?" I wish I had known. God damn it, I wish I had known. Even if it was to avoid the situation. Or to walk in better armed. Or to protect myself. Or to have sought help sooner. Or just to know.

I've been reading this website for a few days now, since BPD was brought up. I'm reading and reading and reading. It's like someone explained gravity to me and I finally understand what the hell has been going on for the last 10 years. I can't explain how I felt when I started reading your experiences. It's all so familiar to me, the same rationalizations, the same hurtful, self destructive behaviors. I know all these stories already because I've been living them for a decade!

I even see your stories of your own BPD explaining themselves using the exact same words, almost verbatim. That I think, more than anything, is what clicked with me. I'm not alone in this. Wow, I'm not alone.

Right now I'm trying to decide if I can stay or if I need to leave. Of course, like many of you, I do still love her. She has nobody, she has burned all her relationships into ashes. But I also know that staying is not the best for me personally. Before this relationship I was always solid. I was 100%. After this started, slowly, I've spent so much time trying to keep the peace, tip toeing around issues, avoiding the rages, that I became weak though exhaustion. I lost my strength, the same strength that built the relationship to begin with. It's a slow and insidious process, like a very subtle cancer that infects your soul. And that same cancer is what she looks at now with such disgust and will never realize it was her own work. No sympathy for the devil.

I'm in my mid 30's now, and I worry that if I stay I will be typing this out again, only worse, in 10 more years. I know there are people who are warm, and compassionate, and honest out there. It's hard, but I know they exist. I'm probably capable of managing it if I want to stay, but I do ask myself if that is what I want. Is that a life I want? To just manage a situation until we die? Is it ok to swallow down so much hurt and pain, just to have it blow up again, or worse, at any minute? If you look at it logically, it's completely absurd that I would consider staying, I'm not even sure why this is still an option. I can't rationally explain why I haven't just left yet. Maybe I've just become too used to the irrational? I don't know!

Thank you for reading.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[C.Stein]

Welcome  ,

On a fence you are and for good reason.  Can you read this if you haven't already and comment on how deep into the FOG you are?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

[BrokenClock]

Thank you.

From that link, I would say I've just got into the meat of "Step 2" within the last few weeks, by not grasping on too tightly to emotional ties. It was really difficult, I virtually had a breakdown, but started to rebuild myself and view things independently and rationally.

The next step about non-defensive communication really hits a nerve with me. I've always, even from an early stage, recognized that almost anything I said would be taken in a negative light. If I said I was craving apples, she'd think I was criticizing her shopping list. If I said I didn't feel like going to the bar, she think I'm calling her a drunk. I once asked about where we should go eat and it somehow turned into a angry episode about her weight. I've always tried to point out these things, show her that she's being defensive, or finding personal attacks in the mundane, but it never stuck. Never. I thought that was the right answer to break this pattern. I didn't realize it was just a single piece of the larger puzzle.

I have mixed feelings about the idea of trying to reframe almost everything I say. I admit that is probably just generally a useful life skill, but on the other hand is this just not a form of enabling? Another form of giving in and acquiescing?

I have similar issues with many of the other items in step 3.

[waverider]

I have mixed feelings about the idea of trying to reframe almost everything I say. I admit that is probably just generally a useful life skill, but on the other hand is this just not a form of enabling? Another form of giving in and acquiescing?

I have similar issues with many of the other items in step 3.

It is not enabling, think of it of reframing how you interact with others, and I mean everyone, not just your pwBPD.  The reason you don't normally have to do it with others is they have a greater tolerance around their triggers.

To use an analogy speaking clearly may not be necessary around your own family and friends as they understand your dialect and accent/slang. However speaking with more clear diction you can be understood by everyone not just those who are familiar enough to fill in the gaps. Think of the tools here as a way to clean up the diction on your interactions with others in general.

As you get better at it and it becomes natural you will notice others you come across in your daily life reacting better to you, which in turn builds your own self esteem. So ultimately you are doing this for you.

You may even notice it in the posts from senior members here, their ability to empathize, offer support without being dismissive or invaliding has been picked up as a consequence of employing these same communication tools.

[gotbushels]

Welcome BrokenClock 

[... .] been struggling with my BPD partner for almost 10 years now. [... .] She admitted she was formally diagnosed long ago. So casual about it, "Ohh yea I already knew that, so what?" I wish I had known.

If I were you I would have wished the same thing.

I'm reading and reading and reading. It's like someone explained gravity to me and I finally understand what the hell has been going on for the last 10 years. I can't explain how I felt when I started reading your experiences. It's all so familiar to me, the same rationalizations, the same hurtful, self destructive behaviors. I know all these stories already because I've been living them for a decade!

I felt the same.

I even see your stories of your own BPD explaining themselves using the exact same words, almost verbatim.

Yes.

I'm probably capable of managing it if I want to stay, but I do ask myself if that is what I want. Is that a life I want? To just manage a situation until we die? Is it ok to swallow down so much hurt and pain, just to have it blow up again, or worse, at any minute?

These concerns were remarkably close to mine.

If you look at it logically, it's completely absurd that I would consider staying, I'm not even sure why this is still an option. I can't rationally explain why I haven't just left yet. Maybe I've just become too used to the irrational? I don't know!

This is very, very close to my experience with some of the behaviours.

Don't forget to read the side bar on the right of each page to make sure you're on the right board.

When I was close to your position, my P recommended me a BPD book. I suggest you have a look at the book review section but be careful not to get overwhelmed.

Be well and rested on your journey:)

[Cloudy Days]

I think most of us have written a post like this when we first get to these boards. It's like a light goes on and you see everything for what it really is. I have also had the same thoughts of, I don't want to be doing this in 10 years, I think it is the one thing that made me change what I was doing. I was miserable truly miserable. Things aren't 100% now but it's certainly better to the point I can say that I love my husband and we are both committed to each other. He has to work on the relationship too, that was one biggie for me staying, he had to get treatment, and it wasn't until us as a relationship hit rock bottom that he agreed to go.

The validation and not invalidating thing is huge with someone who has BPD. Once I found this site I realized how much I was doing that was setting my husband off more. If I had just said one thing to him, the huge fight we had, had that morning would have never happened. It's not really giving up part of you. It's a new way of communication and I do practice on the rest of the world that interact with.

I'll give you an easy example that I went through with my husband. We had two dogs at the time and we had a neighbor that we didn't like. One of our dogs had just had surgery and was on a restricted diet. That morning my husband found out our neighbor was throwing our dogs treats. I didn't see this as him meaning harm to our dogs, it was just a treat, but my husband was clearly upset about it. I told my husband that he was over reacting and shouldn't be mad about that and that the neighbor didn't mean any harm. This turned into a 2 hour fight and I went to work crying. I came to these boards, studied some and realized I had invalidated him on a major scale.

I actually talked to him that night and Validated him. I apologized for telling him that he shouldn't be upset about it because he clearly was and I could completely understand why he was upset because he loves our dogs. This made him really happy actually, he even said that he felt I understood him. I think that is what they are looking for a lot of the time, understanding. I studied the invalidation and validation techniques on here a lot after that. It's not the only tool but its certainly the one to start with because it can stop a lot of senseless arguing so you can get to the real problems.

I even coached his mom on the subject, we would get in the car and go somewhere with her and she would invalidate on an extreme level and I wanted to shout at her ":)on't say that!" It explained why they didn't get along at all.

[waverider]

I'll give you an easy example that I went through with my husband. We had two dogs at the time and we had a neighbor that we didn't like. One of our dogs had just had surgery and was on a restricted diet. That morning my husband found out our neighbor was throwing our dogs treats. I didn't see this as him meaning harm to our dogs, it was just a treat, but my husband was clearly upset about it. I told my husband that he was over reacting and shouldn't be mad about that and that the neighbor didn't mean any harm. This turned into a 2 hour fight and I went to work crying. I came to these boards, studied some and realized I had invalidated him on a major scale.

I actually talked to him that night and Validated him. I apologized for telling him that he shouldn't be upset about it because he clearly was and I could completely understand why he was upset because he loves our dogs. This made him really happy actually, he even said that he felt I understood him. I think that is what they are looking for a lot of the time, understanding. I studied the invalidation and validation techniques on here a lot after that. It's not the only tool but its certainly the one to start with because it can stop a lot of senseless arguing so you can get to the real problems.

I even coached his mom on the subject, we would get in the car and go somewhere with her and she would invalidate on an extreme level and I wanted to shout at her ":)on't say that!" It explained why they didn't get along at all.

It clears a lot of the smoke away and stops a lot of those sideshow arguments that pile it on for no good reason, preventing you from focusing on the real issue as you say.

If someone is upset they are upset, that is a fact. Acknowledge this and find out why and what can be done about it, rather than arguing about you thinking they are wrong for being upset. Otherwise it goes away from the issue to you always telling them they are are wrong, and it becomes about you and not them.

[BrokenClock]

It is not enabling, think of it of reframing how you interact with others, and I mean everyone, not just your pwBPD.  The reason you don't normally have to do it with others is they have a greater tolerance around their triggers.

To use an analogy speaking clearly may not be necessary around your own family and friends as they understand your dialect and accent/slang. However speaking with more clear diction you can be understood by everyone not just those who are familiar enough to fill in the gaps. Think of the tools here as a way to clean up the diction on your interactions with others in general.

As you get better at it and it becomes natural you will notice others you come across in your daily life reacting better to you, which in turn builds your own self esteem. So ultimately you are doing this for you.

You may even notice it in the posts from senior members here, their ability to empathize, offer support without being dismissive or invaliding has been picked up as a consequence of employing these same communication tools.

Thank you. So when we communicate without this type of consideration, is that, or should that be viewed as a sort of deficiency on my part? I feel like I communicate pretty normally. Or should I be viewing it as a framework that is required specifically for having a BPD in my life?

Either way I think this is a skill I should learn.

[BrokenClock]

Welcome BrokenClock 

[... .]

This is very, very close to my experience with some of the behaviours.

Don't forget to read the side bar on the right of each page to make sure you're on the right board.

When I was close to your position, my P recommended me a BPD book. I suggest you have a look at the book review section but be careful not to get overwhelmed.

Be well and rested on your journey:)

Thank you for your reply. It's hard to explain how therapeutic it is just to know that others have dealt with this type of thing, down to the very fine details. So much of this stays hidden from my normal support avenues. My friends and family. Partly because I'm embarrassed, but also partly to protect her from harsh judgements coming from people I've view as part of her own family. If I do start to talk, it just sounds so insane, and nobody can relate. They only offer generic sentiments and, while they are appreciated for what they are, it's not helpful.

I read more about the different boards a little too late I think. I might need to head to the deciding board, but I am finding alot of help here on this one too.

I can't imagine how thankless of a job it is to keep holding things together. You guys and gals here are unsung heroes in my book.

[BrokenClock]

It's not really giving up part of you. It's a new way of communication and I do practice on the rest of the world that interact with.

Thank you. I'm going to take this idea and grasp onto it very tightly. Skepticism is very high, but I am willing to be open minded and move forward and start learning how to do this, and putting it immediately into practice. As you say, I do think it's still a good life skill, even out of context of BPD.

Really appreciate the reply!

[waverider]

Thank you. So when we communicate without this type of consideration, is that, or should that be viewed as a sort of deficiency on my part? I feel like I communicate pretty normally. Or should I be viewing it as a framework that is required specifically for having a BPD in my life?

Either way I think this is a skill I should learn.

Nobody is 100% , pwBPD just give us a reason to up our % a bit more which has a flow on effect, everyone else you deal with will appreciate it. It will help you to listen, and empathize, better. You will notice it yourself, and feel better for it.

[Cloudy Days]

I have been to many therapist sessions with my husband and picked up on her validation of him. She never dismisses something he says. I've noticed it on television and movies too, when you realize what validation is and really why it is important then it's easier to do. People do it every day, you just don't notice it because you are normal and not emotionally fragile so you don't need constant validation to feel ok.

One of the reasons some people develop BPD is because they were never validated as children. My husband had a foot deformity and had to have several surgeries. Any time he would complain about the pain his mother would say, well lets pray about it, however that didn't make the pain go away. Instead of actually taking him to the doctor and addressing his concerns, she would pretty much blow him off with give it to Jesus honey. They would even tell him about the boy who cried wolf, saying he was making it up. He wasn't being taken seriously and that is something that morphs into BPD. Because then they have to yell louder, make more of a scene to be heard. Which makes sense to me why they would learn that kind of coping mechanism.

I think it is important to understand the why as well as the how because it makes it easier to do more sincerely. It's something I think is important to do with children too, because a BPD mind is basically stuck emotionally in a child's mind, If that makes sense.

[waverider]

I have been to many therapist sessions with my husband and picked up on her validation of him. She never dismisses something he says. I've noticed it on television and movies too, when you realize what validation is and really why it is important then it's easier to do. People do it every day, you just don't notice it because you are normal and not emotionally fragile so you don't need constant validation to feel ok.

One of the reasons some people develop BPD is because they were never validated as children. My husband had a foot deformity and had to have several surgeries. Any time he would complain about the pain his mother would say, well lets pray about it, however that didn't make the pain go away. Instead of actually taking him to the doctor and addressing his concerns, she would pretty much blow him off with give it to Jesus honey. They would even tell him about the boy who cried wolf, saying he was making it up. He wasn't being taken seriously and that is something that morphs into BPD. Because then they have to yell louder, make more of a scene to be heard. Which makes sense to me why they would learn that kind of coping mechanism.

I think it is important to understand the why as well as the how because it makes it easier to do more sincerely. It's something I think is important to do with children too, because a BPD mind is basically stuck emotionally in a child's mind, If that makes sense.

Second this.

Watching the "pros' validating someone makes it all look so natural.

Invalidation during childhood is like watching a child constantly trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole, most give up but a pwBPD just continues, hitting it harder and harder. They seem to struggle to learn from their lack of success. If people around them stop believing them crying wolf, they ramp it up to a pack of wolves instead of realizing its simply not working. I think its their low levels of empathy which stops them seeing their complaints through the eyes of others.

The result is they push others into invalidating them, without extensive knowledge of the disorder it is near impossible not to. The whole disorder is a self fueling cycle. As a result they have a life time of bully/victim cycles. But often you will find the victim created the bully.