Finally bit the bullet

[JerryRG]

Hello everyone

I finally think I'm ready to exchange texts with my sons mother. The operative word here is "think"

Over 4 months NC and this is going to be a test for me to impliment the tools I've learned here and in AA, Alanon and counceling

Stick to the facts

Leave out emotion

Only discuss our son

Be brief and to the point

Bounderies

Expect the same behaviours

Realize she's mentally ill

Realize she's vulnerable

She's BPD

?

[david]

Don't get upset if it doesn't seem to work since it is the first try. It took me a while to figure out how to "communicate" with my ex.

One thing that helped me was to think that I was talking to a judge which may be what happens at some point in the future. I only communicate with my ex through email so it is all in print. My ex ran away in 2007 and I still get raging emails. I do not respond to them. They are less than before but they still happen.

[JerryRG]

Thank you David

Good advice, I was given similar advice from a very wise ex cop, she said whenever texting or emailing to visualize a jury watching everything. Oh man did I NOT follow this one, my temper is short, my vocabulary colorful, my patients thin.

Restraint of tounge and pen are disiplines I desperately need to work on.

[david]

I used to try to explain myself and defend myself from her false allegations. Eventually I stopped doing that since it wasn't productive. Ex still sends me emails that used to provoke me into explaining or defending but I now ignore. I read her emails and answer only the thing that pertains to our boys now. It took practice.

The rule is to answer in three to five sentences. 99% of the time that is all you need. Also, with email, you can write the email and walk away to look at it later when you have calmed down.

[ugghh]

Stick to the facts.

Do not feed her trolling comments.

If you feel yourself getting angry or emotional - do not respond right away.

I am not a fan of text because although they can be downloaded in general they are harder to document.

If i had a brief text exchange with the ex, I would always follow with an email - something like "Ex, thank you for your text message regarding school conferences.  To confirm you will attend on Tuesday and I will attend the following Wednesday.  Ugghh"

[JerryRG]

Thanks guys

One thing I've heard is most people will say things in text they may not say face to face. My exBPDgf would text most of the time while I insisted on calls, so easy to misinterpreted anything in text.

Oh well, again my logic fell on deaf ears

And yes she's an expert at pushing buttons and... .if I did 1% of the things she accused of I would be in prison or dead or the most rotten person on earth. Twisted thinking on her part was difficult to keep up with.

[Thunderstruck]

Can you email instead? Email is better for documentation. Plus it seems to help with highly emotional exchanges. Something about sitting down to write an email that makes you rethink how to word things rather than firing off a text.

Also... .you might want to think about a limit to communication. I know with DH, he was always bothered because the text/email notifications came up on his phone. It would probably have been better if he set up a separate email account that didn't show notifications and that he would only check once a day.

We switched to using Our Family Wizard which used to have a daily (at 5pm) notification if uBPDbm sent any messages. Now, however, they have push notifications whenever a message is sent so it's kind of the same as emailing.

[david]

I wrote the majority of or custody agreement. The judge gave both of us two weeks to hand in what we thought worked. I handed in 14 points all spelled out in detail. Ex sent a rambling paper accusing me of being abusive towards her and our boys and nothing else.

I had every holiday spelled out including what to do with extended holidays and the extra day. It was rotated year to year.

I also had one point that all communication must be through email, only pertain to kids, and must be responded to within 48 hours. Ex doesn't follow that precisely but I have learned to accept the nonsense. I simply follow the rules and ignore the rest.

I also included a point that any changes to the custody order must be done through email and it must have both parents consent. Once both parties consent it is considered binding. That is usually used for one specific incident and I make sure I spell that out in my email whether I initiate the change or if ex does.

The judge copied my points exactly as written and it is the major part of our order. Judges want solutions and don't like to get involved with the arguments. They don't like to make the decision themselves. Since they don't know the details they use what the usually use if they have to write the order.

[Sunfl0wer]

Two things that helped me:

Speak like a robot.  No emotion at all, think how a robot may reply to the same stuff.

Never send a txt or email written from a place of feeling triggered.  Wait before sending.  If possible, wait several hours or even a day before sending txts/email, even when not triggered.  Often upon revising to send, I could cut out 50% or even more of what I wrote and realized what was more a BIFF.

Oh, another thing, many persons with PD create a sense of urgency when there is none.  (As the urgency is actually their own emotions, not MY job, theirs) They put pressure on us to reply fast, and now.  Whenever someone seems urgent about a non urgent issue, I back away... .and contact them later, at my own convenience, and you know what, that same 'urgent' topic, is less 'urgent' often by that time. 

Humm, maybe another thing... .

Be clear about your boundaries and at what point you will back away from verbal, txting abuse.

[Sunfl0wer]

I finally think I'm ready to exchange texts with my sons mother. The operative word here is "think"

This made me think... .

Be careful because while you may feel ready, that does not mean ex is ready.  It could open up a door for new dysregulation.

It may be helpful to share with us... .

Why are you wanting to change things?

In what way do you anticipate this improving the current situation?

Is there any drawback you anticipate?

[david]

Before I got our court order to make email the means of communication I would send emails only. I stopped answering my cell phone and actually got rid of texting. I let ex know that I no longer had texting. Ex fought the idea of email only and that was the only way I knew how to change things.

My ex would call from various phone numbers so I stopped answering any call that was not in my phone book. I eventually had 6 or 7 numbers that she called from and left voice mails. None were urgent.

Finally I got it put in our court order that email communication is the only way. Ex still calls me from time to time.

About a year and a half ago I got texting back. She found out somehow and brought it up in a co parent counseling meeting. I stated simply that I would not open any text and delete them and only reply to email. Within hours after the meeting she sent me a text. I did what I said I would do. She sent two or three since then and I delete them before opening them. She tests boundaries over and over.

[JerryRG]

Thank you so much everyone

So much good advice so appriciated  

The triggering is so important to recognize

The urgency issue, like you it kept me on constant edge, adreniline fix that is very unhealthy.

Speaking like a robot, very good. I am an emotional guy and I can't change that so work with or around it.

My recovery,  last week I was reminded that everything hinges around my ability to control my mouth, sponsor say if I'm not biting it I'm not going to get well. I love to defend myself and doing that with my exBPDgf has been a waste of time for me.

This will be difficult but impossible

I will keep everyone's advice close, my son needs me

I need him

I will share my experience with all of you, I'm still waiting for her to respond, from land or sea or air .

One thing is certain, she's never been dull or boring, just obnoxious in a most uninviting way.

[ForeverDad]

If you and your Ex can come to mutual agreement on the parenting issues, good for you.  Not all BPD parents are hugely controlling, oppositional and obstructive.  However, in many cases here our parents here have had significant struggles not to be discounted, sidelined, obstructed or even blocked by the other parents.

After initial attempts failed it is proper to turn to the Real Authority: domestic or family court.  Though our Ex may not see you/me/us as having any Authority as compared to Ex's sense of Entitlement, the reality is that court doesn't see it that way.  Although often mothers do get an initial default but unwritten preference in courts, at least the court will look at both parents and (as long as we stand up for ourselves and show we are problem solvers and not the problems) issue orders that are a least a little less unfair than our Ex's terms.

There is nothing wrong in turning to court.  It actually helps define how the parents are to attempt co-parenting in the years to come.  As issues arise you may have to go back now and then for tweaks and rewrites, but the framework is essential when a parent has acting-out PD behaviors.

Court and professionals often decline to make a diagnosis of a PD but do generally choose to make recommendations and decisions based upon the behaviors and patterns of behaviors.  That is one reason we often don't get a hearing ear when we speak of BPD or other PDs, not only do they not want us to "play doctor", they're not interested in a diagnosis.  So we generally do best to bring light to the behaviors and especially how they affect or impact the children.

[JerryRG]

Thank you foreverdad

I got hit with a rape accusation this last weekend so I'm stepping back to regroup and I have asked for so much help here, I hope I'm being appropriate, seems like the playing field changes on a weekly basis for my son.

I am taking the best care of myself as I can to be ready for any bs she sends my way. She's found a deeper more disturbing tool to try to damage me. If she truly loved our son she would stop these lies and face her own issues. She text me a few months ago offering a letter of forgiveness for all the horrible things I've done to her, I'm working on myself and focusing on what I can do to better myself to be the best dad for my son.

It's all about her and her needs, nothing new here.

[ForeverDad]

Being reasonable, accommodating and never willing to give up trying is what got us into our messes.  So while you won't be vindictive or totally unfeeling, be aware that being reasonable, helpful or accommodating will likely be perceived as weakness or an invitation to push your boundaries more.

For example, Ex may ask for an extra night.  Well, odds are, you won't get one of Ex's nights in reciprocation.  Ex can easily ask for something Ex wants, but if you ask for something expecting normal give and take, you'll face guilting, twisting of facts or downright refusal.  Not only that, Ex may feel enabled to ask for more nights.  This isn't to say you can't make exceptions to the schedule, but as time passes you'll get a feel for how many exceptions to agree with.  Deviating from a firm boundary is like waving a red flag in front of a bull, you'll get charged.

[JerryRG]

Thank you Foreverdad

I've been healing after the rape accusation, one thing I did forget was if indeed I raped her we got engaged a short time after, maybe a month or two.

Nothing makes sense as usual, do women routinely engage their attackers? I shouldn't ask because my exBPDgf is not your typical woman.

Blah blah blah blah, I just want my son safe and his mother is mentally ill and now she has a mentally ill minion to both reinforce each other's psychosis.

[ForeverDad]

Akk!  I'm so sorry, I missed the rape accusation in your prior post.  Even if it is resolved or discounted already, it would be good to post about it in the Family Law board, she's upped the ante and forced legal involvement, if not now then there's that potential at a later time.

Frankly, many of us here in peer support were hit with claims like that.  I didn't face that, I believe, since we separated when police filed for me to have protection from her Threat of DV (death threats).  Instead she made claims of child abuse, child neglect and child endangerment, almost worse in the eyes of the professionals since it was alleged parenting behavior rather than alleged adult behavior.

From another post about failing relationships and how previous joy together was negatively reinterpreted... .

This reminded me that my ex, in the final couple years, would give hints in the morning that later at night she'd be willing.  But during that day or evening she was sure to find something to get upset about or do something that ruined the mood for me, so no fun that day.  (Looking back, she was probably toying with me, getting hopes up and then making sure to dash them.)  And in the final months she exclaimed, "I feel like a prostitute, I ought to get paid!"  I didn't reply verbally but told myself, "Well, you sure wouldn't earn much... ."

A criminal lawyer would advise you to never say anything, literally anything, that could be used against you.  For example, saying "No but... ." or "Yes but... ." may seem normal to you and I but courts and officials can take one word and ignore the rest that expound on it.  For example, if you said, "No but I could see how she feels that way", you risk them taking piece out of context and using it to support her recent musings.  You may mean, "All was great back then but now that we're not together she hates me and blames me and feels that way now" but they don't have to follow your line of reasoning.

Don't feel bad or awkward if you say, "I can't talk about this until I speak with a lawyer."

[JerryRG]

Thank you Foreverdad

I changed my phone number Tuesday so no contact for now, I know I didn't do anything wrong and she does too and with her history no one would listen. Just last week she posted on FB she was going to take a dirt nap. Her pastor told me he knows she's severely mentally ill so she's not able to hide the facts, he's only know her for a short time yet he's already seeing the symptoms.

He thinks she will collapse soon and end up in long term treatment