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Author Topic: Avoiding sensitive subjects?  (Read 512 times)
Jessica84
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« on: April 04, 2016, 11:49:32 PM »

Every time my uBPDbf brings up 2 ex-coworkers of his, he gets all worked up... .and often enough, takes it out on me.

If I say too much, he'll pounce on something I said wrong. If I say too little, I'm not listening. If I say nothing, I'm mad or ignoring him. If I try to validate, it may work for a bit, then he's back to looking for a fight. It's a trap, and I don't know how to side-step it.

This weekend, he brings up the dreaded subject... .he waits 2 hours to get mad, then accuses ME of "always" bringing it up ? Do I need to carry a tape-recorder?

I understand why he gets angry - a lot of unresolved conflicts and the "injustices" they did to him - but I keep getting the wrath that belongs to THEM. He spiraled into calling me names, stomping around angrily, muttering obscenities, slamming doors... .I ignored and went to sleep in another room. Next day, it was like nothing happened.

Is there a way to shut down a conversation that keeps causing dysregulation?
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waverider
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« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2016, 04:37:33 AM »

What kind of things do you say?

Are you giving advice, and opinion, or are you asking questions and thereby giving him an opening to voice his opinions?

With touchy subjects I try to keep it about their opinions and avoid being enticed to offer mine. Especially if it is in disagreement.

I know it is hard as often they are attempting to get you to validate the invalid.

if it gets out of hand then its time for boundaries and be somewhere else.
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2016, 12:51:41 PM »

Yeah, I know this routine. Sucks!   It's a no win game, no matter how you play it. I think at times like that, they're just looking for a target to focus their distress upon.

I keep having to tell myself that my husband has a mental illness when he plays this game. Otherwise I get angry and defensive and think about what a double standard he has for his communication versus mine.

Sometimes when he parses my words and finds them lacking or inaccurate, he gets this evil look on his face and corrects me like a schoolmaster with a dumb student.

Then when I haven't replied fast enough, he will say it's like talking to himself or say, "Hello?" then repeat the previous phrase. Sometimes this will happen within five seconds, like I should have an instantaneous response.    

At times, I've counted the seconds in his response time to me in conversations that I initiate, and it has been well over a minute, or he hasn't responded at all. But when the shoe is on the other foot, he goes into a narcissistic hissy fit if I don't immediately jump to attention with a well thought out reply.  
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Jessica84
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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 01:53:33 PM »

Exactly Cat. When I talk, I get a heap of invalidation. It's like talking to a plant.

I think my main problem with this is I keep correcting the facts - out loud. Not on purpose, but invalidating I suppose. It's hard to live in the real world with someone who constantly rewrites history. He wants to be the victim and my inadvertent slip-ups (actual facts) are not what he wants to hear.

I need to do better validating his feelings and leave facts out. But that's so hard to do.

Honestly, my main goal is to shut down any conversation related to these people. It's too sensitive a subject for him, and I'm tired of hearing how they "ruined his life". It's been over a year since their fallout, and it's become an obsession for him. 
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globalnomad
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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2016, 03:20:00 PM »

I think my main problem with this is I keep correcting the facts - out loud. Not on purpose, but invalidating I suppose. It's hard to live in the real world with someone who constantly rewrites history. He wants to be the victim and my inadvertent slip-ups (actual facts) are not what he wants to hear.

This is really hard, isn't it? pwBPD tend to rewrite the facts to fit their emotions. I see this in my wife a lot. Last night she was dysregulating over something inconsequential and she started cursing at me. I said "Please don't call me an xx or I'll have to end the conversation." This really set her off. "I never called you an xx and how dare you even accuse me of that." Literally 10 seconds after cursing at me she denied it had ever happened and I got caught in one of those bizarro arguments where you literally feel like you're in a different universe.

I wish I knew the answer too. Validating is really hard when you can't even agree on basic facts.
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waverider
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2016, 05:44:05 PM »

Then when I haven't replied fast enough, he will say it's like talking to himself or say, "Hello?" then repeat the previous phrase. Sometimes this will happen within five seconds, like I should have an instantaneous response.    

At times, I've counted the seconds in his response time to me in conversations that I initiate, and it has been well over a minute, or he hasn't responded at all. But when the shoe is on the other foot, he goes into a narcissistic hissy fit if I don't immediately jump to attention with a well thought out reply.  

This is instant gratification side of neediness
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waverider
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 05:48:47 PM »

Honestly, my main goal is to shut down any conversation related to these people. It's too sensitive a subject for him, and I'm tired of hearing how they "ruined his life". It's been over a year since their fallout, and it's become an obsession for him. 

I get this about my wife's FOO all the time, then she calls them and reads another invalidation between the lines and it derails the rest of the day. To me its simple, dont ring them everyday. But its like a junkie going back to their dealer to get a drama fix.

if the drama was not about the work colleagues it would be about someone else. Just be grateful its not about you or your family
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2016, 07:56:53 PM »

Do you have any idea what the underlying feelings are behind the blow-ups over these coworkers?

Can you validate those feelings? Preferably before it has gone too far for validation to work well... .
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2016, 09:09:17 AM »

I get this about my wife's FOO all the time, then she calls them and reads another invalidation between the lines and it derails the rest of the day. To me its simple, dont ring them everyday. But its like a junkie going back to their dealer to get a drama fix.

if the drama was not about the work colleagues it would be about someone else. Just be grateful its not about you or your family

Yes. One seemingly insignificant (or so it looks to me) invalidation from literally anyone (the checker at the grocery store) and my husband's day can be "ruined" and it will stay that way until he wakes up the next morning.

And other times, like the junkie needing a drama fix, he will call his sisters (with whom he has a toxic relationship) and when they don't respond in the way he thinks they should, then it's "poor me" time again.

Before I knew about BPD, I used to wonder "Why on earth is he creating unhappiness over such trivial issues?"
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Jessica84
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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016, 11:14:00 AM »

Cat- reminds me of a child sticking his hand in a beehive and expecting them not to sting. I worry when things are going well for him. I always wonder how long it will take for him to find a way to mess it up!

GK - he moved out of his office last year (impulse decision) after a big argument. One co-worker tried to provoke him to fight and threatened his staff. The other was his longtime friend who didn't defend him and called him a coward for leaving. He's been wanting an apology (or revenge) all this time, but none has come. I think he's scared of them, and embarrassed. What he conveniently forgets is how he contributed to the escalation. But I guess there's no point in bringing that up. It's purely accidental when it happens. Validation for this should be SE (and forget the T).
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016, 12:06:20 PM »

He's been wanting an apology (or revenge) all this time, but none has come. I think he's scared of them, and embarrassed. What he conveniently forgets is how he contributed to the escalation. But I guess there's no point in bringing that up. It's purely accidental when it happens. Validation for this should be SE (and forget the T).

Bingo, the "T" isn't validation at all! And he doesn't really have any need to understand/act on the truth of his role in this anyhow.

I'd suggest firm boundaries to stop him from engaging with you in an unhealthy way about these coworkers... .along with being ready to validate when it comes up.

I saw a workshop or topic with a list of validating questions, but I can't find it today. Sigh. Perhaps somebody else remembers where it is.
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« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2016, 05:58:22 PM »

This is such a common problem, I suspect for many of us. I'm new to this site, but not new to the problem. However, I've only been working specifically with the tools such as validating and not invalidating for a few weeks. The first thing I noticed once I started was that this means dealing with those subjects that trigger me in the same way as the 'easy' ones.

Last evening he called me to discuss a business issue that I've been helping him with for a couple of years. When he started criticizing the lawyer and effectively rewriting history and his part in it, I felt like a deer in the headlights. What do I do now? I want to validate his feelings, but I don't want to invalidate what is true - especially because how he behaves going forward will have an impact on his dealing with this issue. I'd say my response was, oh - maybe 50/50. I was triggered far less than before, yet I still plunged in with a different interpretation. Then - when I realized that wouldn't be helpful, I softened it - and tried to move into the "going forward" part. He ended the conversation fairly quickly and I knew he was disappointed and possibly a little angry with my response. I did two things that helped. I kept my tone very light and warm when he ended the call. Then, I kept running over what I could have said - how could I have handled this better? Within a few minutes, I sent him a text, acknowledging how difficult this issue is for him and telling him that I think he's doing great. He is doing very well given the challenge he's facing - especially in light of his BPD traits and fears.

Then this morning, he hit another one of my triggers by requesting I do something "for him" that I've always experienced or interpreted as relinquishing my autonomy because I do it for me - not for him. In the past, I've always said a version of 'no way - I don't do that for you and I won't.' I'm still wresting with this one because I always felt this was a core value for me. When I turn the request around, however, I can see it as him asking for proof of love ... .I didn't find the response I want and I'm still unclear as to what that will be, but I know that it's worth it TO ME to find a way to make this OK and better for both of us. I know for me just acquiescing is not an option. And, ignoring him won't work either.

Recently, I've begun to ask what is the cause of the trigger for me. If I can drill down to why I feel hurt or disrespected ... .whatever, then I'm better able to determine if this is one worth fighting for or over and also, what, if any aspect of it deserves my protection.

It is also helpful if I am able to understand where his hurt is focused - and in writing this, I just came up with a positive response to this morning's request that I hope can give him the reassurance he wants without invalidating my independence and self esteem.

It's tiring and time consuming. I'm new enough that I've not had an opportunity to use this approach when he was angry or dysregulating - I'm sure it's much harder.




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