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Author Topic: Is it possible for a BPD person to validate a Non?  (Read 649 times)
sempervivum
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« on: April 06, 2016, 12:52:27 AM »

When my UBPDh addresses me in his bossy/military-like manner, I'm totally aware why is he does that. I think I'm reasonably good in validating him in such a situation.

As a human I don't want to be treated as a lower being. I objected to his tone and he told me that this is not commanding,  it's his way of speaking. I told him this is not acceptable for me and that I'm going to be strict and determined whenever I'm addressed like this.

Maybe my decision is not quite by the book, but it's fair, since BPD strikes come suddenly and mine is announced.

Has anybody's BPD person validated your moves and boundaries positively?
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2016, 03:02:42 AM »

Yes, it is possible for a pwBPD to validate the non's emotions/feelings but the ratio of how much you and bod can validate will be way off coz they are unable to regulate their own emotions most of the time. When their defenses are fully down and they are secure, they are able to see outside their own little painful world. I have gotten validation from my uBPDH a few times and there have been times when I have desperately needed it and not gotten it from him too... So you have to be prepared for the unpredictability by make ng your life, intentions & boundaries very predictable. You'll be able to better navigate
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2016, 06:57:31 AM »

I get validated a lot, and it happens to extremes during idealization stage. Often this is what attracts us in quickly, if we are in need of it.

However, having said that I think the motivation is not so much based in empathy and consideration, rather it is often more as a means to impress. With this in mind it often comes in the form of grand gestures.

If you keep this in mind it is easier to stay centered and not over indulge in it.
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2016, 11:34:44 AM »

I completely understand your frustration! My pwBPD was actually a marine so you can only imagine the bossiness I have had to deal with wow! Lol. But yes they are capable of validation and empathy. But it may not come when you need it. I remember one time he was bring extra critical and it was really making me sad. But I was too tierd that day and didn't want a fight so I didn't say anything but i did say a silent prayer and asked God how do i handle this situation. I'm not sure what happened but I  guess my silence and not reacting angrily calmed him down. And he out of nowhere said I'm sorry I'm just stressed and I shouldn't take it out on you. I was shocked! Prayer works!

All that to say they are capable for sure. It may not come when you want it though. So you definitely are going  to have to learn and find alternative ways to get your emotional needs met. My faith is what helps me the most.
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sempervivum
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2016, 02:33:07 AM »

I completely understand your frustration! My pwBPD was actually a marine so you can only imagine the bossiness I have had to deal with wow! Lol. But yes they are capable of validation and empathy. But it may not come when you need it. I remember one time he was bring extra critical and it was really making me sad. But I was too tierd that day and didn't want a fight so I didn't say anything but i did say a silent prayer and asked God how do i handle this situation. I'm not sure what happened but I  guess my silence and not reacting angrily calmed him down. And he out of nowhere said I'm sorry I'm just stressed and I shouldn't take it out on you. I was shocked! Prayer works!

All that to say they are capable for sure. It may not come when you want it though. So you definitely are going  to have to learn and find alternative ways to get your emotional needs met. My faith is what helps me the most.

I have heard/read about directing of a prayer and about the psychologically directed flow of positive thoughts towards a person that hurts us (and who is actually hurt himself/herself). I never managed to do this, because I was too involved in the storm of arguing and manipulation and emotional turmoil. First I have to overcome this!  Thought
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sempervivum
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2016, 02:42:01 AM »

I get validated a lot, and it happens to extremes during idealization stage. Often this is what attracts us in quickly, if we are in need of it.

However, having said that I think the motivation is not so much based in empathy and consideration, rather it is often more as a means to impress. With this in mind it often comes in the form of grand gestures.

If you keep this in mind it is easier to stay centered and not over indulge in it.

I recognize the things you write, especially the grand gestures. My problem with not getting validated lies in the fact that my H diminishes my good feelings and my achievements in times when I do something valuable or when I feel nice, when I just "surf" on a good wave.

He is a person who makes it public when HE does something of the kind, he praises himself. I am not, I always experienced that people notice when I, let´s say, deserve validation without my mentioning. I was raised in a family where things functioned that way. He, on the other side, ignores other peoples achievements. Yes, I know the reason, but it gets exhausting for me. 
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2016, 03:39:31 AM »

When you start to see grand gestures for what they are it becomes hard to validate them as you start feeling like you are invalidating the invalid. ie the act may be generous but the motivation often isn't.
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2016, 01:14:08 PM »

I get suspicious now when he tells me how "wonderful" I am. I think he must be feeling particularly needy and vulnerable. I'd much rather be appreciated for having worked hard to do something which makes his life better, but that's unlikely to happen.
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2016, 04:43:15 PM »

Is it possible for a BPD to validate a Non?

Yes -- if the BPD wants something!
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2016, 05:35:24 PM »

Is it possible for a BPD to validate a Non?

Yes -- if the BPD wants something!

But if the non is aware of this do they accept it as validating?

I can read hidden agendas now as though they are tattooed on her forehead.

As a result of this now I dont take obvious attempts at validation, by anyone, all that seriously. However I do notice subconscious validation that others do that is simply a natural part of their personality.

pwBPD are aware of superficial validation, as they often practice it themselves, this is why our attempts fail when they are obvious. As with everything it comes back to changing our own nature in order to give it that credibility.
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sempervivum
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« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2016, 08:37:00 AM »

The last four posts confirm exactly why I opened this topic. My (unwanted, but today necessary) experience with my PBPD is thet his validation of me could have worked in the first few months or years, depending on frequency of what he validated in me.

When I graduated this  Smiling (click to insert in post) it was painful to see behind his nice words and gestures. He has a pattern of being nice when he wants something. Of course I don´t like it and I react, but in the end it comes down to action and reaction or about Pavlov´s dog - it seems I have to tame him or counter-manipulate. I do it sometimes, but I feel bad about it, its not me. I am more for spontaneity and improvisation. How on Earth did we end up together? 
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« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2016, 11:01:05 AM »

Validation requires empathy, especially on any deep level. pwBPD struggle with this, although some do better than others... .some are even pretty good at it when they aren't flooded/triggered/upset.

Being idealized isn't the same as being validated, because the praise heaped upon you isn't real and doesn't reflect who you really are.
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« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2016, 11:24:00 AM »

My husband is good at validation at times and terrible at other times. It's much easier for him if he is not going through it with me. He also struggles to validate when he has been through something similar but worse, he will usually say something along the lines of "how do you think I feel" and it smashes any hope of getting validation from him.

I have recently lost my current job and excepted a job offer from the same company I work for, it's complicated to explain. But my husband has been really great to me. He actually asked me the other day when I was going to go back to normal. Apparently I haven't been acting myself. When it's a huge thing needed he usually delivers. He was great when my father died and he has been great with my job loss. I've been rather out of sorts and he asks me to talk to him, it's something he hasn't always done so I think it's pretty great that he can recognize I am in distress. I'm not one to share things openly.

I do think the idealization phase is different, it's more along the lines of you are great, I love you so much, I don't know what I would do without you, you are beautiful, buys gifts. Validation is much different, it's more about understanding and empathy for what I am going through.

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« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2016, 12:04:22 PM »

I agree that validation is different from idealization. Idealization feels creepy to me now.

I can read hidden agendas now as though they are tattooed on her forehead.

Basically, if BPD mom is being nice to me ( her black child) she has an agenda

Which makes it hard for me to not be suspicious if someone is being nice to me, especially my H. It isn't fair to him. I used to be naive and trusting, but now, I am probably overly wary.
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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2016, 06:12:10 PM »

Being idealized isn't the same as being validated, because the praise heaped upon you isn't real and doesn't reflect who you really are.

This brings up the question of an individuals validation evaluation abilities are impaired. Do we take validation without assessing its real value because we are desparate for it?

Is this why why it is hard to validate a pwBPD because their own receptors are fickle because they dont value the words of some and over value others depending how well they match their own views? Is it also why we fall for idealization as we were in need of it at the time?

So not only is it a question of dodgy validation, it is a flaw in the ability to assess it.
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2016, 10:06:30 AM »

This brings up the question of an individuals validation evaluation abilities are impaired. Do we take validation without assessing its real value because we are desparate for it?

Is this why why it is hard to validate a pwBPD because their own receptors are fickle because they dont value the words of some and over value others depending how well they match their own views? Is it also why we fall for idealization as we were in need of it at the time?

So not only is it a question of dodgy validation, it is a flaw in the ability to assess it.

Such a good point! I know I was desperate for validation, having been in a dysfunctional marriage with BPD husband #1. And when we first got together, BPD current husband validated my socks off. I felt so loved and seen.

Now I don't feel validated at all--occasionally the recipient of idealization for moments at a time, but that doesn't feel nurturing, especially when internally I'm rolling my eyes and thinking he must feel needy in that moment.

I think my attempts at validation fall flat sometimes because of three things: 1. since he's such an expert at flattery, he thinks what I say is fake   2. he has such a poor self-concept that it doesn't fit with his self image  3. he thinks of it as a manipulation technique because he uses that way.
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2016, 06:25:25 PM »

It is a viscous cycle isn't it. For those who never really do get a chance to find out that it is BPD at work and educate themselves fully about it, they are sitting ducks to repeat the whole saga. Its almost like one relationship tenderizes us so that we are appetizing for the next one that happens along

I know I went through huge invalidation as my previous marriage collapsed (not BPD related) so that being treated like like a king by my current wife did not raise any redflags, it was merely filling a hole in my life and I was grateful.

Trying to sell superficial validation to a pwBPD at times can be like trying to sell fake snow to an eskimo. It needs to be backed up by actions to prove it is the real deal they know superficial when they see it.
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2016, 08:49:48 PM »

It is a viscous cycle isn't it. For those who never really do get a chance to find out that it is BPD at work and educate themselves fully about it, they are sitting ducks to repeat the whole saga. Its almost like one relationship tenderizes us so that we are appetizing for the next one that happens along

I thought I'd done my homework after my divorce when I did a few years of counseling. Yet here I am again in BPD limbo, however husband #2 is certainly BPD-lite and has many more redeeming qualities than the first.

If this relationship doesn't last, I have very little confidence that I wouldn't end up with yet another pwBPD. If this is as good as it gets, it's really on the plus side, all things considered. I'm not sure I would even recognize what a healthy relationship looked like since I never saw one modeled in my early life and all the relationships I've had since adulthood now seem like they've been with men who've had some variation of a personality disorder.
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2016, 06:30:49 AM »

I felt invisible growing up in my FOO with BPD mom. Over the years, I felt they didn't really know me, who I was, how I felt.

As one can imagine, I was very vulnerable to any kind of attention when dating. Someone who actually wanted to know me, or at least appeared to be.

I think all things considered, I am grateful for the marriage I have, that I thankfully am not in the situation like I was with my mother. Still, we brought enough of our FOO issues together to make it a challenge.

Like you Cat, I don't trust my own attraction mechanism, even with the work I have done on co-dependency. I am happy to stay married, not looking, but were I to ever be looking, I would not feel confident about my judgement.
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2016, 09:21:07 AM »

I don't trust my own attraction mechanism, even with the work I have done on co-dependency. I am happy to stay married, not looking, but were I to ever be looking, I would not feel confident about my judgement.

I agree with this 1000x, I look back on what attracted me to my husband and I think that's what still attracts me to him so I can't imagine choosing wisely the next time, if there is a next time. I know I would watch out for red flags more but he could just simply turn out to be less severe than my husband but still disordered. I don't trust my own judgment either.
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« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2016, 05:11:27 PM »

I guess "normality" is just alien to some of us to the point it could make us feel like a duck out of water.

But then there are many twists away from normality, BPD is just one of them and just as we couldn't see BPD at first we probably cant see other the other "twists" away from normality. Maybe 'normality" is just an illusion as we cant see into the other types of dark corners that exist elsewhere.

I often think I am not "normal" and only a "not normal" person could live with me Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2016, 01:57:22 AM »

I guess "normality" is just alien to some of us to the point it could make us feel like a duck out of water.

But then there are many twists away from normality, BPD is just one of them and just as we couldn't see BPD at first we probably cant see other the other "twists" away from normality. Maybe 'normality" is just an illusion as we cant see into the other types of dark corners that exist elsewhere.

I often think I am not "normal" and only a "not normal" person could live with me Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

This is very sharp and so true. There are times when I say to myself I´m asking too much, or when I question what I really want: some other normality I maybe saw in someone else´s life?

Awareness is a very huge step, when you know something/someone leaves you unhappy and empty, then the only right thing is to act by yourself to make things better.
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