Not sure whether I'm still playing or chucking my hand in

[anglian365]

Hello. I am new to the site and would like to share what is happening to me/us at the moment in the hope I can get some help from you all.

 

A quick bit about me – I’m a 67yo gay woman and am used to living on my own, but am sociable and enjoy company. I have had several long term relationships in the past and remain good friends with 3 past partners (a major problem as far as my new partner was concerned). I have a long history of anxiety and chronic fatigue. I should have realised that having someone around 24 hours a day would be very draining for me. I had a relationship with a woman with BPD years ago and swore it would never happen again. Duh!

The story so far: Last summer I befriended a lovely woman on a social media music group. We started messaging. We got on extremely well and we both felt a strong connection. After a while it was obvious that she was drinking heavily at times. She revealed that she was an ex-pat living in southern Europe, and was effectively trapped in a violent abusive relationship. Her partner was keeping her without funds. During those messages she said that she’d fallen in love with me and wanted to be with me.  Despite thinking this was a bit over the top, I felt that her situation was extreme and she needed help. (Rescuer…)  To cut a long story short, she managed to come over and stayed with me. We both came back to earth with a big crash!

A pattern quickly emerged. We’d have 2 good days getting on well (I thought) then during day 3, or worse night 3, she’d lose control of her emotions. I wasn’t living up to the perfect image she’d had of me. I was too controlling.  There’d be blame, ridicule, insults etc.  I’d react with calm reason (so I thought) but didn’t know anything about validation /invalidation. She couldn’t understand my (lack of) reaction to her ‘getting a little bit upset’ (“all you had to do was put an arm round me”).  She thought all couples argued like that, and it was healthy to let your emotions out. To me it was nothing but destructive. My mental and physical health was beginning to suffer, not least because of lack of sleep. She occasionally (3 or 4 times) went out and got drunk and had to be delivered home. But she has managed to stay off alcohol largely, given she was an alcoholic, so huge credit to her.

I put her in touch with Women’s Aid who were very helpful.  She now has her own money, state pension etc. But she is being divorced by her partner and it is likely to be antagonistic.

After about 6 months I asked her to find her own place, partly because I was desperate to get space and time for myself, and partly I wanted her to find her own independent self and not be dependent on a partner. No doubt this felt like abandonment, but she found a very nice flat about 12 miles away. She says she’s enjoying the freedom of not playing second fiddle to anyone.

But there’s still a problem – we see each other most weekends and we are still romantically entangled. She comes and stays with me and nearly every time there is another long outburst at night. It can go on for hours. Sometimes I leave the bed and go to another room, or she does. Last weekend she decided she would walk home at 4.30am. I should have offered to drive her home, but persuaded her to stay because I was so tired.   Sometimes I feel so disempowered I would go out for a walk. However, I am finding it harder and harder to contain my anger.  I started shouting back. Now, I feel I can’t take any more and just want to smash something, particularly while she is still venting her feelings. This is a new feeling for me. I am very worried about this, and need to know how to defuse this. Her outbursts only happen when she is in my house. She went home on Monday and i had no contact until this morning (Thursday) when I texted to say needed space and I would email on Saturday.  Buying time, and I haven't a clue what I am going to say.

She is an intelligent woman, knows about co-dependency, says that’s what she had with her previous partner (but also what we might have?). She says she has to walk on eggshells with me, and I am gas-lighting her. Interesting that she knows these terms. She puts my cooling off as her not being attractive enough (that’s not true) but she cannot hear me say that we have a problem with communication. She is now saying that she might have a disability (would I leave anyone knowing they had a disability?).

An added complication is that I am trying to sell my house and move. She knew this as I was working on it when she came over. Originally the idea was that she would come with me, but I am feeling more and more like this would be a disaster. 

So, summing up, we have a proportion of good times together.  But the bad times are completely over-dominating the good times in my mind. I know I am going to have to make a decision whether to stop communication altogether if things don’t improve.  How can I get them to improve? I am not good at setting boundaries, but will have to do so.

Thank you for taking the time to patiently wade through this, and I would be very grateful for any comments. I am so glad I have found the site, it’s a wonderful resource. I have just discovered the Karpman Triangle and find it a very useful concept/tool. I am also going to try introducing the ‘Rules for Fair Fights’ (I’m calling it Rules for Fair Discussions). Wish me luck!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Nester]

Hi,

I just posted my own introduction, so I'm a newbie to all this as well. One thing that struck me about your post was how angry at her you say you are. I have had a hard time admitting that I'm angry sometimes at my girlfriend: I want to just turn it around towards me, because I'm scared that if I admit I'm angry with her, then it will turn out that I have to leave her (because BPD relationships are always destructive). My therapist says that it's very important to allow yourself to be angry at your partner: that it ultimately makes it easier to wade through the emotions and figure out what to do. I don't know if that helps, but I thought I'd throw it in just in case.

Good luck.

Nester

[Grey Kitty]

Wow, that is a lot to deal with!

I'm going to suggest that you insist on seeing her at her place, instead of inviting her to your place, especially overnight, starting this weekend.

Why? Because it is much easier to get up and go home where you can get a decent night's sleep alone if she is buffeting you with emotions... .than to kick her out.

I'd also suggest that the "rules for fair fighting" are an excellent proposition, but please understand how they actually work: They only work voluntarily.

When your partner gets too emotionally upset, she loses the sort of control that would have her following the rules. You can give them to her, but they will go out the window pretty quickly.

Instead, believe them yourself... .and follow them yourself... .and disengage from her when she cannot stay within them.

Good luck!

[anglian365]

Thank you Nester for replying to me.   Funnily enough it does make it easier to admit the anger.  It's sort of validation of your own feelings, instead of somehow attempting to bury them as I used to do.  It is a relief to admit to not being 'nice' all the time.  I look forward to reading your post too 

Grey Kitty, thank you for the excellent suggestion about seeing her/ staying at her place.  A slight complication is that I have 3 dogs   who go with me.  It might be a bit like trying to move a circus in the middle of the night.  . Guess I could always leave them behind and collect them the next day!

I take on board your comments about the rules for fair fighting. I don't expect miracles.

Thank you both again.

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, the dogs do complicate things. That also leaves the option of visiting her on the weekend days/evenings but coming home to sleep at your place to be back with your dogs. Or arranging for somebody else to look in on and take care of your dogs. Or as you said, driving home with three dogs you just woke up in the late evening/middle of the night.

Whatever you do... .try to avoid getting "stuck" in situations where she is likely to get really upset and you cannot get out / get away.

You were pretty clear that her spending the night at your place usually results in something that is bad for your relationship and bad for your health personally (sleep deprivation).

Many members here have found that being trapped in a car with their pwBPD is a really bad situation, especially if the pwBPD is driving. Again... .best bet is to avoid those situations, even if it is difficult/complicated to do so.

[anglian365]

Thank you GreyKitty for the good suggestions about the dogs.  However, plans about that may or may not be relevant anymore.

I sent an email today to my pwBPD, using the guidelines and JADE for saying how I wished to be treated and that I would leave the situation and take time out if she carried on venting. I also suggested we used the Fair Fighting directions, and sent her a copy. She replied saying she agreed with what I said, said her venting went against everything she believed, wished me well and said she was working on getting her physical and mental health back. So far so good.

We had a phone conversation about an hour later, quite amicable.

About half an hour later my mobile rang, I was in another room so it went to voicemail.  As I was listening to the message about needing a mutual friend's phone number, the home phone rang.  I didn't get to it in time but picked it up in time to hear her say to the answerphone, "I am sorry but I can't go on with this, you never answer the phone", going on to say that it was over between us).  I was able to over-ride the message, and speak to her. I was able to give her the friend's phone number, and then there was rather an awkward exchange, which ended when she said, "Its all about love, if you love someone you will find them in the universe, if you don't you won't."  She put the phone down.

About half an hour later she texted to say ":)on't misunderstand, I'm only going away so you can be yourself - am always here."

So, not sure how this will play out now. That seems like a clear signal that our relationship is over? Time will tell, I guess... .

[Grey Kitty]

I would call that a clear signal that she wanted to end the relationship ... .for at least a period of ~40 minutes from the first call to the text message.

Anything beyond that is less certain, especially with BPD involved.

Are you interested in continuing?

If so, you might reply back with something stating that you do want to continue with her, but if she's wants to go you can't and won't stop her.

[anglian365]

Are you interested in continuing?

Hmm.  I think I am going to have to sleep on that one.  I'm feeling a bit numb at the moment.  Got to do a bit of processing now.

If it were possible I'd rather be a good friend, and see her meeting other people and widening her circle of friends. She said once if we split up she couldn't be friends. 

Thanks for being there Grey Kitty 

[waverider]

Grey Kitty echoed my advice exactly. Your anger comes from staying in a situation that is frustrating you past its tolerance threshold.

This is the essence of boundaries. Boundaries are only effective if you have the means to action the implementation. Having someone in your house would ultimately mean the bottom line is showing them the door, a hard thing to do. Removing yourself is somewhat easier to do, and most importantly you dont have to wait until the explosion until you do it. The awareness that you can, and have, helps to ease your feelings of being trapped and vulnerable, it also creates an awareness in your partner than that if they continue to escalate they will be left alone.

Dogs may create a complication but you either have to find a workaround or make a choice, as continuing the way you are it will blow up to the extent that your hand is forced. Being naturally patient and having an understanding of BPD probably means you have let it go far longer than most would have, and so it is at a more critical stage than you realize.

[anglian365]

so it is at a more critical stage than you realize.

Thank you waverider - I am not sure what you mean, could you explain a bit more please.

Are you saying that this is the moment to stop all contact?

[waverider]

so it is at a more critical stage than you realize.

Thank you waverider - I am not sure what you mean, could you explain a bit more please.

Are you saying that this is the moment to stop all contact?

Not necessarily to stop all contact unless that is what your inner voice is telling you. It is more a case of making sure side excuses dont get in the way of making important turning point decisions. Its what could be called a flag point where if we dont take control of our choices events could overtake us.

Listen to that inner voice, are you experiencing anxiety, shortening of patience, does it overly occupy your mind and intrude on you when you should be focusing on something else, a desire to escape?

[anglian365]

if we dont take control of our choices events could overtake us.

Agree entirely Waverider, and your point was illustrated today.  After I was told the relationship was over last night, I wasn't surprised to get a call this morning which I missed. I texted ':)id you need to speak to me'.  'Am always pleased to speak to you' was the reply. 

I rang because wanted to check out the scenario of being friends. After some chat during which she stated she could 'just shake the dust off' (?) she asked me if I was going over to her place next weekend. I said 'no, I don't think its a good idea'. I was genuinely confused at this point, weren't we over?  Then said 'Can't we be friends?' 'No'. End of call.

An hour later a text informed me to go and pick up boxes tomorrow while she's out, which I have agreed to do.

When I read this, I think what a numpty I am, I know things are always thrown at you from a different angle to where you are looking. 

Listen to that inner voice,

My inner voice is telling me that there's no point second guessing her words or actions. There is anxiety here, but nowhere near as much as there was.  The scare over the anger I felt is enough to make sure that I will stay at arm's length.

Thank you for your continuing support!  It is much appreciated.