Reaching Out for Help

[AntigoneJayne]

I am head over heels in love with a man who I strongly believe (after a lot of education and research and observation) could be living with BPD. 

I have known him for nearly five years; been in an active relationship with him for almost a year, lived with him for half of that now.  I knew he had depression issues before we moved in together.  Did I know that it went as far as what I've seen in the last four months?  Not at all.

I'll start by saying that he is undiagnosed---only a depression diagnosis from ten years ago when he was a teen.  However, I have been reading for several weeks now and I am seeing so many BPD things.

I am coming here because I am a strong, loving, patient, and nurturing woman who LOVES this man.   I am not leaving---I don't want to hear "it's early enough---get out."   That wouldn't be right for either one of us. I just need a place to go and people to lean on for support because this life is a CHOICE but it is still hard.   In more posts and conversations I am sure that I will open up a bit more about the sometimes daily challenges I face.  But that's me. This is my introduction.  I'm so glad I've found this place.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

Welcome!

You've come to a good supportive place. You've brought a very healthy attitude here as well.

You say you believe he could have BPD. That's enough--many people here have partners who haven't been diagnosed. Many have partners who have BPD traits, but aren't bad enough (at least now) to qualify for diagnosis. That's not important. What is important is whether the support and tools you find here help you in dealing with the relationship you have, no matter the diagnosis or labels applied to it.

Have you read much of the educational material here about BPD? Or material elsewhere?

Would you like to share some of the things that make you suspect BPD?

[Bpdsupporter]

Welcome 

So glad your here. Reaching out for support shows that you have a healthy outlook and know that you can't do this alone. Kudos to you! I'm like you in love with a wonderful man who is suffering with BPD. And I am also committed to this relationship even with its challenges. Bpd is a real mental illness but that does not mean you cant have a rewarding and fufilling relationship. It is possible i am living proof. I had to change alot of things in myself first. I had to get my own mental emotional spirtual and physical health in check. That has to be a priority. You sound like an empath like myself and we tend to put others first over our own needs. Which we really enjoy doing but it can also lead to burn out! So i had to learn and still educate myself on that.

And then you will really have to work on empathy (sounds like you already are a natural at that) validation, and reflective listening skills. Our loved ones with BPD needs loads and loads of this. It takes alot of practice patience and hard work. But over time the skills should become second nature to you!

Ive included a few YouTube clips that were really helpful for me. I used the information and had incredible results in my relationship. We still have bumps in the road but now I feel equipped and ready and we are so much closer and enjoy each other more. I love him very much and its exciting to see how these little changes I've made are actually working!

And wheather your partner has BPD or not these skills will improve any relationship. I use them with everyone and all my relationships have improved! So be encouraged and he's a lucky man to have such a caring individual like yourself stick with him as he goes though tough times like depression. Be blessed!

Oh and get this book... "Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder" by Shari Manning. it's really the best one in my opinion that I've read about BPD because alot of publications emphasis alot about the negative and don't really give solutions or hope that you can actually have a great relationship with someone with this illness. Shari has got a big heart for people with BPD and so do I!

Ok here's a few links. Wasn't planning to write so much . But I just really wanted to encourage you and just know you are not alone and that the challenges you may be facing I know first hand and will be happy to support you and lift you up when you need it! Peace to you!

Reflective \Active Listening

https://youtu.be/1uRwwz-b6Zk

https://youtu.be/oG_UlQrFmAY

https://youtu.be/FEvldkFkgsc

Validation

https://youtu.be/DABarBuR2K4

hhttpsa//youtu.be/EDSIYTQX_dk

Empathy

https://youtu.be/1Evwgu369Jw

https://youtu.be/ecb6ExBaW80

Book

www.amazon.com/Someone-Borderline-Personality-Disorder-Control/dp/1593856075

[Nester]

I second the book recommendation: my gf (who has BPD) asked me to read it, and she is listening to it on audio. It doesn't shame the person with BPD, or you for wanting to be with them. Also, while I don't have BPD, the part about being raised in an invalidating environment really hit home: I've been feeling a lot of sadness about my childhood that has nothing to do with my gf.

[AntigoneJayne]

Grey Kitty: 

Yes, I printed off and many of the topics that were most relevant to what I have experienced. 

Here is the tricky thing---and I haven't been able to browse enough to know if this is normal.  My partner doesn't know that I think this is what he's dealing with.  How does one even approach this?  That is my biggest torment right now, because I DO NOT want to trigger him into an episode (or make an existing one worse) by bringing up that I think I may be at least in the right direction of what his underlying issues are stemming from.  That's the biggest reason that I am here.  I want, no I NEED people who have been through this to process with me and help me know where to go from here. 

****I am dyslexic therefore acronyms and abbreviations and forum jargon confuses me, so please just tolerate my non-usage of them in my personal postings.****

You asked me what kind of things I've gone through with him to make me think this.  I will do my best to explain them now. SORRY FOR THE FRIGGIN BOOK! 

My BPD partner and I have known each other for just about five years.  This time last year I was struggling after my marriage fell apart (husband relapsed onto meth hard after 8 years clean and this was also when I became aware of his cheating).  I wasn't so much mourning the marriage as I was my relationship with my stepson, who I had helped raise (50/50) since birth, and was still dealing with the loss and trauma of losing my daughter at 10 weeks the winter before.

About the beginning of the summer (2015), my BPD partner had become a steady support system for me through my loss and an innocent friendship turned QUICKLY (as I've read is common) into a full-blown two sided infatuation.  Being that we had a history of knowing one another as close friends, I was aware that he had ups and downs with depression.  It was during this time that I see what is now the common thing of him putting me on a pedestal.  He called me his cure-all, stating that I could do no wrong in his eyes, and that he was shocked that any person would ever treat me the way my ex had, especially after all the trials I'd been through with him.  Looking back now, I should have seen that this could have been a sign (because nobody is as perfect as he claimed to believe I was); however, I loved him then and I love him now---I don't think at all that knowing he was probably suffering from BPD would have stopped me from getting into this relationship with him. 

Anyway, we reconnected and all of this was over the phone (text, calls, facetime) because we were, at that time, 750 miles apart.  Due to both of our having relationship healing from the past, we took this as a good thing, and the first few months of our relationship was only by phone.  It wasn't until August that we physically spent time together.  And he made me feel like the most special person in the world because he would get through his work week and on friday drive straight from work the 11 hours to come see me and spend just a day and a half with me before driving all the way back to be at work on Monday morning.  He did this probably 8 times in three months.  Other than very normal points of tension in a relationship that is new (adjusting to each others weirdnesses and differences and whatnot), we had a fabulous "honeymoon period".  Alas, those always end, don't they? 

Due to some safety issues (my ex had broken into my house multiple times, and one of the times he got physical with me), I needed to move.  "Why not come live with me?" was my partner's suggestion.  I took a month to think about it and we weighed a lot of things out, and we decided to go for it. 

Now, that I've lived with him for five months, I've seen him go into these depression modes. 

He has destroyed property (his own---never mine or my landlords).  he threw his phone against a wall, and a different time he broke his TV. 

He has postured at me but never gotten violent with me (he knows I have zero tolerance for this in a relationship.  Yell all you want but you keep your hands to yourself!).  ***also would like to note that he does not threaten me verbally or anything like that either.  My job is working with high risk teenagers and at this point I am pretty much unphased by intimidation so while some people might be afraid of the yelling or the posturing, to me, I see it for what I believe it really is, just a part of the acting out without intention of actually going any further. 

A couple months ago, with no notice at all, he just up and quit his job.  And here we are a couple months later, and he thinks about working on and off but then has another episode and basically says "F-CK that, not doing it."  (I will say though, while I'm the one working right now, he pulls his weight around the house---does everything but cook).  This is the first time he has EVER gone without a job or quit a job without another one lined up.

He went from "I trust you fully, you can do no wrong," to "you're probably talking to tons of guys behind my back."  Accusations of cheating (which he admits later when totally grounded again that he knows they're bogus).  He has hacked into my phone and facebook (*which is fine, I have no secrets and actually took security codes off of everything so he can access them if he wants---I don't care) and has found reasons to suspect that I'm cheating (such as liking someone's photo, or accepting a friend request).  Again, when he resets and is my sweet partner again, he acknowledges that these are all just his way of projecting his fear or rejection and abandonment on me, even when he knows Im doing none of those things. 

He will text me when I'm at work once in a while and basically tell me he will probably be gone when I get home and pretty much "have a nice life you'll never hear from me again".  I used to get caught up in my emotions over this but have learned that it is nothing but a cry for help or maybe even a warning to me that he's on that side of his mental state again.  He never actually has left me---although one day he did take off on his bike but was home about fifteen minutes later. 

He goes from loving my dogs to acting like he would rather they be dead.  He has yelled at them, he is impatient with them, and he gets frustrated with them.  (He never actually abuses them, and my dogs are big dumb 100 pound balls of fat and fluff, so they care about little other than some affection and some food.)  On the flipside, I've seen him in the middle of his worst episode just lay down on the floor with one of them and basically cry into her fur.  He has even admitted to me (today actually) that he doesn't hate them---but that they are easy for him to just project onto and blame for his inner turmoil. He knows that I will tolerate his griping about them, and even yelling at them, but if he is ever violent with them I will call the police.  He hasn't crossed that boundary, and I'm not sure that he ever will.

He will go from planning our future together long term, to basically telling me how dumb I am for even being involved with him, because he is going nowhere in life. 

He has made suicidal statements, like "I hate my whole existence."  "I wish I was dead."  "I'd be lucky if a semi hit me while I'm out riding."  etc.  We own a gun, I have asked him many times if he feels like he will hurt himself.  He states to me that he is all talk and venting.  That his son (oh did I mention---he has a 4 year old son across the country---another situation that plagues and triggers him and we will discuss a different time) doesn't deserve to lose him like that, etc.  Another boundary I have set is that any suicidal threats, plans, or statements will lead to me calling the ambulance to have him put into a safer place until he is ready to come home.  We haven't had to utilize this either. 

He has cut off everyone.  Other than the people we see at the grocery store or drive through, I am pretty much the only person who he physically sees.  He texts a couple people but there is no consistency in this.  I guess this is why I've come to understand why I get all the highs and lows---I'm the only person he really has to take it out on, anyway.   

There is more, but quite frankly, I'm a little embarrassed about my inability to keep this short.  I want to be thorough and honest with you about what I see though.  Thank you for listening to me. 

Opinions, thoughts, (even if they might be criticism towards me), advice---all welcome.   Thank you.

[AntigoneJayne]

BPDsupporter__

thanks for reaching out!    I appreciate it more than you know.  And to hear from another woman who is involved with a BPD man, is encouraging.  Many of the things I've seen are men with BPD women, as its likely more common in women. 

You're right---I AM absolutely an empath.  Maybe the most empath-iest empath I know.    This is such a blessing and a curse, isn't it?  That being said, I still would love resources and advice on empathy, validation, and reflective listening especially in regards to being a BPD partner. 

Any advice, support, whatever is appreciated.  I will check out those resources as soon as I can. 

I do have to say---my partner can be the most amazing, loving, logical, and tender man.  I hold on to this every day.  I'm just really struggling right now because we are in the longest episode he has ever had---even according to him.  He will have "good" days and "not good days."  But his good days are not what they used to be or could be.  There is this cloud over him that seems to limit his ability to believe that this rut he's in will ever end. 

I just want to be the best partner I can be for him.  If I knew that my ending things and leaving him alone would solve his problems, I would do it---but that's not going to get him into recovery from BPD.  I'm learning that BPD (or BPD like behaviors that I'm witnessing) is my partner's rollercoaster.  I am just choosing to go along for the ride with him.  I wouldn't change the decisions I made that got me here.  I'm in it for the long haul.  Please, help me to help him, if you can.  I appreciate it more than you know.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm going to try to touch on a bunch of things you said here.

First, don't worry about the acronyms, you're communicating just fine. If you are confused by reading other's topics, here is the secret decoder key: What do all these abbreviations mean?

From what I've seen, this disorder seems to impact men and women about as much, despite the behavior being more stereo-typically female. The non's here sure represent both genders pretty well.

My partner doesn't know that I think this is what he's dealing with.  How does one even approach this?

For now, DON'T approach this directly. Short version: about 95% of the instances where a partner mentioned possible/likely/obvious BPD to the pwBPD in their life, it only made things worse.

It is pretty natural to read all about it, have that  WOW, this explains everything moment and want to share it with him. Sharing it is as you guessed, likely to trigger him, and unlikely to do any good.

What DOES work is to focus on specific BPD-driven/related behavior, and address the behavior. So try to hold your horses for a while if you can.

He sounds more self-aware than many pwBPD, which is a hopeful/better than average sign. My wife was too similarly self-aware.  (But hearing about BPD only triggered her despite all this! I quickly learned to shut up about it!)

You comment about how you see the highs and lows that nobody else does--there is another reason for this--you are the closest, most intimate person in his life--and everybody, BPD or not, tends to reserve their most extreme behavior for the people closest to us. It just happens that his worst is more extreme than a lot of people!

And that brings me to one big caution for you -- Abusive behavior on his part. You've already mentioned him being out of control and shouting. Targeting your dogs, and his own property. You are clear that physical abuse is a zero tolerance area for you, and he knows that too.

Keep with that zero tolerance. I highly recommend you take almost as strong a stand on verbal/emotional attacks.

The reason is that this kind of abusive behavior will continue to escalate, IF IT IS UNCHECKED. It often creeps up over time, starting with little controlling things that aren't a big deal... .gets more controlling, starts isolating you from other people (like snooping on your phone, which can chill your communication with others), and will continue to get worse.

Or you can enforce clear boundaries showing that you will not tolerate such behavior, and stop the escalation in its tracks. Now is the time for that. (And we have a lot of tools to help with this here!)

[AntigoneJayne]

GK:

How do I do that?  I'm just not sure how to put up those boundaries.


I should clarify, he hasn't tried snooping my phone since about February.  And that's when I just said forget it and took the passwords off because it was just easier. 

And here's a little bit of our situation.   It's not that he has isolated me from people---I moved up here to this new place and I don't know anybody really so my only friends up here are my coworkers.   He has, however, completely isolated himself.  :/

[Grey Kitty]

I'd suggest a couple things to file away for "later".

You do have a right to privacy and private communications with friends and family, and to having relationships (not romantic ones, of course) that he isn't actively involved in. If you meet new friends, or start to socialize with your coworkers, they might become mutual friends... .or they might not. Maybe he stays isolated and avoids them. Maybe he and some new friends just don't "click" or have much in common. Or maybe he gets some friends too. While fighting to keep your phone private isn't worth it, getting into fights after he snoops and misinterprets something there isn't worth it either.

Back to today's problem--how to enforce boundaries on verbal and/or emotional abuse. These workshops should help:

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

BOUNDARIES: Case studies

I also find that getting very specific with an actual situation helps a lot too. Describe a situation in some detail where he targeted you or expressed anger in a way you weren't comfortable with, starting before it got out of hand.

Then look at when and how you could have enforced a boundary. If you aren't sure, that's OK; I or other members can help you see possible ways.

[Bpdsupporter]

Wow... what a story friend. You have been though quite alot. Im so glad you wrote it all out in detail, writing our story is a great way to heal. Ive been there when it comes to the snooping issue. The best way that i deal with it for me, is I treat all his emotions as valid. Heres a sample convo that I had about it with my pwBPD that actually worked and he really appreciated me listening.

Him

Who is this unknonw number, are you seeing someone behind my back?

Me

NO

Him

I dont believe you, your lying you are trying to deceive me, I dont trust you!

So in the past I use to get really pissed off and try to defend myself, what I do now is validate.

Me

So you dont trust me because you see this unkonwn number in my phone?

Him

Yes

Me

Sounds like it makes you very nervous upset and frustrated. Is that how you feel?

(this is mind-reading so you may be wrong about the emotions, so be prepared to be corrected. If corrected just repeat back what he says word for word)

Him

Yes it makes me think you are hiding something from me.

Me

Ahh ok, I can see how that could make you nervous. We talk about everything and you know all my friends. Its perfectly understandable to feel like that because you never seen that number before.Can you tell me more about what those feelings?

So this is just a way to get to the real issue which is his feelings, not what hes saying about me. With emotional dyregualtion you gotta talk about the emotions. Its tough because sometimes they say some crazy stuff. But the key that Ive learned is to take my judgement hat off and really listen. For me my pwBPD just calms right on down and opens up. Its almost like you have to think of yourself as another person and you are helping them just really get some clarity about that person. Its really something that take practice and humility. If you notice too validation does not mean I agree with him, Im just empathizing and trying to understand where he is coming from. Validation has no judgement at all about right or wrong. Its just validating that their feelings.

Fortunately this approach works well with with my pwBPD. But it may not work overnight and you may have to deal with the snooping again, you will have to really practice and get your skills up,  overtime you will see results.

I guess I dont really see BPD as something that my partner will be cured from. If our relationship was  going to survive I had to change how I handle him, and educating yourself, getting yourself healthy, is the only thing that will help you for sure. But make it your mission to learn empathy, validation, and reflective listening skills. Practice the skills in other relationships too. For empaths its actually quite rewarding. I use to get so nervous and afraid when he gets  dyregualted, but now I kind of get excited that I can use the skills Ive learned. I think the most frustrating thing that I felt with my pwBPD was that no matter what I tried before wasnt worknig and I just didnt know what to do. Now that I feel more equipped and prepared things just improved so much. Oh and Read up on DBT too, which is dialectical behavior therapy. This is the therapy  used for BPD treatment. This is a great book im reading on DBT.

www.amazon.com/DBT-Made-Simple-Step-Step/dp/1608821641

peace good friend!

[Bpdsupporter]

OH and heres two more books you should check out.

When hope is not enough by Bon Dobbs

Hard to Love:Understanding and overcoming Male Borderline Personality Disorder by Joseph Niwinski

www.amazon.com/When-Hope-Not-Enough-Dobbs/dp/1435719190/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1460593338&sr=1-1&keywords=when+hope+is+not+enough

www.amazon.com/Hard-Love-Understanding-Overcoming-Personality/dp/1937612570/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1460593529&sr=1-1&keywords=hard+to+love+personality+disorder

[AntigoneJayne]

GK:

I also find that getting very specific with an actual situation helps a lot too. Describe a situation in some detail where he targeted you or expressed anger in a way you weren't comfortable with, starting before it got out of hand.

Then look at when and how you could have enforced a boundary. If you aren't sure, that's OK; I or other members can help you see possible ways.

Okay GK  I'll try to describe something.  Its hard for me because I am the kind of person who lets things go really quickly.  But I'll go with something more recent.

Scene:  Last Saturday I was at work.  My partner had a rough night the night before (no idea what triggered it--as is the case probably 50% of the time) and didn't speak to me before I went to work that morning.  About halfway into my shift I get a text (and i can use my phone at work)... .

Him:  "Too embarrassed to have a profile picture of me and you on facebook?" 

(He has deleted his account because things on there usually just make him mad, he reactivates it now and then.) 

ME:  No.

Him:  That's fine.  We won't be together much longer anyway.

ME:  Not embarrassed at all babe.  I just don't have any current ones because you hate taking pics right now.  Honey Please. 

Him:  No, that's fine.  You're probably in some "I need attention from everyone" phase. 

ME:  No, I'm not in any phase.  I just put a profile picture up of just me because the last one that was me and you, you said the pic was stupid and asked me to take it down.

Him:  I'm not dumb, You crave and need attention from everyone.  You have never even lived alone for Christs sake. 

   (which I dont want anybody's attention.  However, I have never lived alone.  always had a roommate)

ME:  No.  I just want you. 

Add in some more just him basically insisting from that point on that we are a worthless couple and that I'll just cheat on him and he knows its coming.  That he doesn't care about anybody or anything.  and blah blah blah.

It was because I engaged as much as I did that he kept taking it further, I know it.  But my thing is---I get worried about if I don't engage, maybe he will escalate and actually leave when he threatens to.  (he did threaten to later in the convo.)  I dont know. 

Should I have just not engaged at all?  Validated him?  Said, "I understand how you might think that me having a solo picture makes it look like I am not proud of us as a couple?" 

Advice   Please. 

[Bpdsupporter]

Ok I'm glad you posted the covo.

My pwBPD use to call alot at my job too. I feel like I've had the exact same conversation before wow.

Ok so what you don't want to do is defend yourself. Because even though it seems like he is accusing you. Hes really just expressing what he feels.

So this is where empathy has to come into play. You have to really began to see where he's coming from. If you had BPD and you saw this fb thing go down it would probably make you feel afraid maybe lonely maybe think you were ashamed of him.

So what do you do.

In this case I would have said

(I like to repeat word for word what he says to me so I can be really clear about his emotions)

If he says you are too embarrassed to put a pic up of us

You could say in a question form.

So you are saying I am too embarrassed to put a pic of us on fb?

He will have to respond with yes or no.

If yes

Then you can say oh OK... .is there more you would like to share about that?

And then let him share.

When he's done... Ask him again... is there more?

When he's got it all out this is how you can validate.

You can say something like

Wow... .that must really feel so painful to think that I would be embarrassed of you. I'm sorry you have to feel like that right now.

So do you see how validation doesn't mean we agree or disagree it just means connecting with what they are feeling.

It takes alot of practice and patience.

See your dialogue with him escalated into him kind of insulting you because you tried to assure him that's what you were not doing. From my experience defending or stating my defense never assured my partner. So I don't even do it and as counterintuitive as it seems.

I really just listen. And then repeat back what he says. Empathize and then validate. And for me it takes alot of stress off me, becasue I dont have to prove anything or defend myself at all. And then we get to really talk about the real issues underneath it all.

Watch the videos on reflective listening and validation that I posted. I watch them like 20 times a day. These skills will really help you soo much!

It takes practice so be patient.