Difficulty making future plans

[globalnomad]

Does anybody else find it difficult making plans for the future due to their BPD partner's unstable sense of self?

My wife regularly flips back and forth on decisions such as:

- Which country and city she wants to live in

- Whether or not she wants to have another child

- Whether to buy or rent an apartment

- Whether she wants to work or be a stay at home mom

- If she is going to work, whether she will work for a big company or "do something creative"

- Where we should go on vacation

- Whether she wants to be with me or not

I find it extremely difficult making any kind of future plans because I know with a fairly high degree of certainty that her view will probably have totally changed within a month. This leaves me feeling a bit paralyzed. In her mind of course I am the problem and the reason why the big decisions don't get made is that I don't ever express my preferences clearly enough.

The latest example: She has just sent me a link to an apartment she wants us to buy, emphasizing that we need to move fast if we are going to buy it. Only a couple of months ago we decided (I thought) that we wouldn't be buying anything for now. I am now dreading the conversation tonight.

Any ideas for dealing with this kind of thing? I am feeling pretty exasperated.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tomacini]

Oh yes, next to impossible to make future plans.

We were supposed to leave on friday for a holiday. I asked her 2 months ago to come with me. Yeah no problem... .in those 2 months she must have changed her mind at least 6 times.

Now we've broken up so i'm taking someone else haha

All the things we did were impulsive like: let's go to spain today for a couple of days. Yeah why not... .that was fin though

[Cloudy Days]

My husband usually has all the particulars planned out. But for things like buying a house, it's the house that is in question and as soon as we bought our house we are in now, he hates it and of course blames me for the choice. He loves the land but hates the house. I think all it boils down to is they are going to find fault in something no matter what it is. So just put your thoughts into the decision as much as possible.

We do have problems planning ahead of time, I am the type of person who would like to plan things but I end up not planning anything because it's usually up to how my husband feels on if we go, like to the zoo or something big. Some things that are planned way ahead of time like a concert or a wedding my husband will tell me he's not going at least 6-7 times before the event and then when the day comes he usually goes. I usually ask for experiences for my birthday because he usually backs out of them if it is just for fun.

He has a very hard time making smaller decisions though, what to eat, what to watch on TV, what to wear, what clothes to buy. Any decisions that isn't a huge decision is something he has problems with. Because what if he chooses the wrong thing!

[globalnomad]

He has a very hard time making smaller decisions though, what to eat, what to watch on TV, what to wear, what clothes to buy. Any decisions that isn't a huge decision is something he has problems with. Because what if he chooses the wrong thing!

That is interesting - my wife is the complete opposite. She is happy to make all the small decisions but when it comes to big things she is seemingly terrified of making a mistake. This means we must analyze the problem in a million different ways (what she calls "optimizing" to ensure we make the right decision. When I inevitably get frustrated with the endless conversations and whimsical changes of direction, she gets angry and blames me for being indecisive.

[Nester]

That sounds very frustrating. I used to have trouble making big decisions, because I felt that it somehow determined who I was, like my identity was going to be fixed in place by the decision. It was like I didn't really know who I was, so I had to make sure the decisions were "right", but I also never knew what "right" was for me. It always made me feel stupid and foolish, because no matter what I chose, I felt like I'd made the wrong decision.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you don't have a strong sense of who you are, it's hard to see yourself apart from your decisions, and get some perspective on them. I know that's not much consolation on your end: I just thought maybe I could offer some insight into your wife's thought process.

It sucks any way you look at it, though, that's for sure.

[waverider]

My wife is the extreme of this. Down to daily decisions, I want X for dinner, I want to go out for coffee in half an hour,  I want to wear this, or do that.

It is not indecision, they are definite decision and everyone else is supposed to reschedule around them, quickly followed by a definite decision to do the opposite.

Most people weigh up pros and cons in parallel than make a decision on best compromise. pwBPD struggle with compromises and often think in series, consequently making impulsive decisions on the last thought that entered their mind, whether it be a pro or con. This is fueled by high levels of self doubt. The result is fluctuating decisiveness that is even harder to cope with than procrastination, as you are expected to go along with it and make arrangements for things that stand a good chance of never happening.

I tend to say "thats a good idea" as it really is only an idea not a decision, then not make any firm arrangements based around it. Arguing is futile as you are likely to be arguing about about something that is not likely to occur anyway.

[waverider]

Try introducing word substitution

"need">>"desire"

"want">>"prefer/would like"

Takes the absolute out of it. You might need oxygen to breathe or you will die, but you dont need a muffin or you will starve to death. Throwing "need" in is often just a way of overselling your own preferences to get instant gratification. pwBPD do this so well

[teapay]

Global,

Many of the things you mention are not small decision like whether you want fries or mashed potatoes.  They are larger than that and could impact you and your child for a long time.  As the clear thinking one in the family, this is where you might best be served by keeping your hands firmly on the steer wheel and make sure any decisions you make aren't against your best interest.  Be smart, be wise, know what you want.  Don't make major decision just to placate or wife if they don't smell right or that you dont want.  You might deeply regret those choices later.  She'll likely regret any decision, so there is probably nothing you can do to make her happy by going down that road.  "Staying" can be tenuous even if that is someone's greatest hope.  In these major areas of life you need to protect yourself alittle. 

[Notwendy]

I will second teapay's advice to take the wheel on these major decisions.

With my H, I find making decisions difficult as he seems to put the negative spin on my ideas. Or if I speak up about my wishes, there tends to be an argument. I try to be a team player, come up with ideas that could suit us both, but my speaking up probably feels like invalidating. It gets tiring to do this and we end up not deciding to do anything- which is a decision in itself.

But my BPD mother makes wild decisions and my father went along with them. They tended to be magical thinking ones. A couple of them were "vacations that would solve all the family problems". There were several times she was going to "leave my father and get an apartment". I found that many of her decisions were about her idealized situations, not based on reality. Dad stretched himself financially to pay for her wants, but then, there wasn't money for other family needs.

[waverider]

Do not be the trailer hitched onto your wife's car. If you allow her to make wildly swinging decisions and you try to follow these you will be swinging all over the road as she swerves down the road. Not only will you be also unstable but you will always be one step behind trying to appease, therefore compounding the instability.

It is far better you take the wheel, as mentioned, and drive the straight line, she may still swing wildly behind you, but the overall instability will be far less.

[globalnomad]

Do not be the trailer hitched onto your wife's car. If you allow her to make wildly swinging decisions and you try to follow these you will be swinging all over the road as she swerves down the road. Not only will you be also unstable but you will always be one step behind trying to appease, therefore compounding the instability.

Thanks all. Waverider, this is very good. I am stuck in a bit of a vicious circle at present. If I do make a decision, she inevitably is not happy with it and blames me for making the wrong one. If I let her take the wheel, we end up swerving all over the road. I need to pick the lesser of two evils -- obviously that is the former.

Also, to echo an earlier point above, the type of thing I am talking about is very different from indecision. One of my previous partners, for example, was extremely indecisive. Whether choosing a salad dressing or where to live, she would be paralyzed and often unable to make a decision. But she was consistently indecisive. It wasn't that the values themselves underlying her decisions were unstable. And she knew her indecision was her own responsibility. She never tried to make me take responsibility for the difficult emotions that stirred up in her.

Herein lies the difference. With my wife I think it's more a fundamental lack of stability -- her decisions will change like the wind depending on her emotional state and then she projects that onto me in the form of frustration and or rage.

[teapay]

Global,

I'm tracking the decisional instability you are talking about.  My W has a very unstable self and has made erratic decisions or has had erractic, often mutually exclusive desires throughout our marriage.  Fundemental aspects of her identity she has struggle with and it has been pervasive: career, work, role in family, children, religous beliefs, political beliefs, where she wants to live, what she wants to do and on and on.  For example, when we got married we both wanted a big family.  Then as kids started coming she didn't want a big family.  Then she did.  Then she didn't.  Did.  Wanted to adopt.  Then didnt.  Well we now have a big family. Then she wanted to leave big family and live her life because she felt she was wasting it.  Then she didn't want that.  Then she wanted briefly to adopt large sibling groups and have a bigger family.  She's had similar struggles with work (work, not work, this career, that career, that other guys career, volunteer, home school).

This is not indecision, but course changes based on implusivity and instability of self.  We've made some bad decisions based on this kind of stuff.  That is why it is so important to straighten ourselves out and keep our head on first, especially when you have dependent kids.  Otherwise, you'll all get dragged down into that BPD maw.  That is why you need to be the person who ultimately steers on isues that effect you.  Your W might try every trick in the book to get your to steer her way.  My W has selectively used parts of our religous beliefs, marriage psycology, misogyny, victimhood, family and other dupes to spread the FOG to get me to go along.  When you're  alone and ignorant your an easy mark for this kind of stuff. Now you know better.  Get a good grasp of what you really want out of life, what is important to you and what you know is wise and right and tenaciously stick with it.  It is really easy to piss that all away in these kinds of relationships. 

[globalnomad]

Global,

I'm tracking the decisional instability you are talking about.  My W has a very unstable self and has made erratic decisions or has had erractic, often mutually exclusive desires throughout our marriage.  Fundemental aspects of her identity she has struggle with and it has been pervasive: career, work, role in family, children, religous beliefs, political beliefs, where she wants to live, what she wants to do and on and on.  For example, when we got married we both wanted a big family.  Then as kids started coming she didn't want a big family.  Then she did.  Then she didn't.  Did.  Wanted to adopt.  Then didnt.  Well we now have a big family. Then she wanted to leave big family and live her life because she felt she was wasting it.  Then she didn't want that.  Then she wanted briefly to adopt large sibling groups and have a bigger family.  She's had similar struggles with work (work, not work, this career, that career, that other guys career, volunteer, home school).

This is not indecision, but course changes based on implusivity and instability of self.  We've made some bad decisions based on this kind of stuff.  That is why it is so important to straighten ourselves out and keep our head on first, especially when you have dependent kids.  Otherwise, you'll all get dragged down into that BPD maw.  That is why you need to be the person who ultimately steers on isues that effect you.  Your W might try every trick in the book to get your to steer her way.  My W has selectively used parts of our religous beliefs, marriage psycology, misogyny, victimhood, family and other dupes to spread the FOG to get me to go along.  When you're  alone and ignorant your an easy mark for this kind of stuff. Now you know better.  Get a good grasp of what you really want out of life, what is important to you and what you know is wise and right and tenaciously stick with it.  It is really easy to piss that all away in these kinds of relationships. 

Teapay, sounds like we have some similar experiences. My wife has fundamental problems figuring out key aspects of her identity. She quit a high flying corporate job 18 months ago, where she was making twice the money I do. The idea was to become a nutrition coach. She got bored with that after a few months. Depending on the day now, she either wants to go back into the corporate world, become a yoga teacher, or try to be a songwriter/poet. Sometimes she wants to upgrade to a bigger, nicer apartment. Other times she says she wants to sell all our possessions and live a simple life in the countryside. It is really exasperating trying to keep a steady course when the ground beneath you keeps shifting like this.

You are right though. I need to keep a strong hand on the wheel, especially for my son's sake.

[waverider]

Sometimes as the non in a relationship if you dont get accused of being stubborn and pigheaded occasionally you are not doing a proper job of it

[teapay]

Global,

As long as the critical stuff are planned around what is stable and secure (the things already mentioned) that shifting ground should impact you and your family less.

So as long as the things my W does don't impact me or the family stability and security much I'm okay with it.  This gives her a sense of validation and freedom.  If it is good for the family all the better but i dont rely on it because it may evaporate. If it does go against the family's best interest I do oppose it vehemently and I'm not afraid to fight it out to the point of separating.  Since separating could bring more stability and security  depending on the crazy idea I always keep it in the mix.  If I do have to fight it out over something critical, I don't fight crazy with fair and nice.  I just fight to win.