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Author Topic: Questions regarding validation/ help with scenarios  (Read 482 times)
waitingwife
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« on: April 13, 2016, 01:48:26 PM »

I think I got a decent grip on radical acceptance. Now I'm digging my head into validation coz I am surely having a hard time validating during the acute phase of dysregulation.

Is there any way I can overcome my challenge and how to practice it on a daily basis?
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2016, 02:50:52 PM »

You can practice on other people, people you work with, your family. You can do it with anyone. When I figured out the ins and outs of validation I started to pick it up in movies and tv shows that people were validating others during tough times and would note it in my head for later. When I first started doing it I had a hard time making it sound natural or not rehearsed. My husband would call me out and say I sounded like a robot and not sincere. So I would pay attention to something and try to figure out how I would say it that would make it sound more natural. It takes some time but it comes natural to me now.

If you haven't read about how to avoid invalidating that is just as important because it can stop a lot of needless arguments that don't even need to exist. I noticed my mother in law invalidating my husband a lot when I learned what it was. I understood why they never got along and she does it with her other son and her grandson too. She has problems with my nephew because she invalidates him. She's a sweet woman but she says things like "you shouldn't feel that way". which is a huge trigger for my husband.

Validation I feel has more to do with the pwBPD wanting to feel understood and heard, because when they were children or at some point in their life they weren't understood or heard. So they learned to over react to situations because that was the way they were actually taken seriously. When you know how to make them feel like they are being taken seriously from the get go it solves a lot of frustration and you can start working on the other tools.

Are there any situations you want specific help on?
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2016, 03:00:13 PM »

hi waitingwife  

id like to offer a big pat on the back and  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post). neither radical acceptance nor validation are easy, or necessarily intuitive, but they can not only be relationship improving, but life changing.

yes, you can practice validation on a daily basis. im not currently in a romantic relationship myself, but i use it daily with friends, family, acquaintances, on this board, and even with myself. these are not necessarily as challenging situations as when your partner is dysregulating, but the idea is that practice will lend itself to validation coming more naturally, and make you more aware of invalidation. have you had the chance to read the articles and workshops on the subject? they include a lot of member experience, and examples of validation vs invalidation (even when we actually mean to validate!).

it might help if you give an example of your struggle to validate during dysregulation. do you mean when your partner is saying hurtful things to you? thats a big challenge.

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waitingwife
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2016, 08:45:03 PM »

I know my H has a family full of BPD people in it and I think he is high functioning pwBPD. Also me being in therapy and working on my co-dependency has motivated him to make some amends... .Our relationship is improving a lot.

I am visiting my parents and they live in another far away country. My in-laws live not too far away from my parents. I have a lot of my own questions regarding my FOO. According to the amount of introspection I have done my dad had BPD traits and I have a fully codependent mom who has stood her ground but with a lot of resentment or the "I have compromised a lot" feeling in her heart.

One thing that happened between me & mom yesterday was she is a very religious person who believes in praying in the temple,etc. I am not religious or don't believe in idol worship. So since I am visiting for only 12 days, she suggested we go to the temple. I have come to radically accept that she has her reasons to believe in visiting a temple and religion is nuthing but faith like for me spirituality gives me the faith. So if going to the temple is going to make her happy and won't make me unhappy, I can give her that happiness. We went... .Me, dad and mom.

But she was constantly on the edge about little things... For example she commented about how I haven't dressed appropriately... .They live in the Eastern world and me in the Western and I was dressed for the weather coz where they live is 100 degrees F. So I said to her, I don't believe in wearing a particular dress while visiting the temple would make the Gods any happier coz I felt judged and maybe she triggered me. Then she kept saying things like, I shouldn't have called you & dad coz you guys always make me feel like I am forcing you to come. I said you are choosing to hold onto all these negative things instead of being thankful for me going with you and then after a few hours asked her- what is exactly going on in her mind and that she appears upset and on the edge. So she started crying and said- I feel like we could have visited 2 more temples. Then I told her I'm not a mind reader and you have a lot of pain inside and I can see that. She said dad always does this out of force and he also acted like I was dragging u both. I asked her whether she feels bad that we don't share her beliefs and she said yes... .Then I told her honestly that I do not believe in praying in a temple allthough we have grown up like that but I respect her way of praying and being religious... .I told her that I didn't come out of force but I came to make her happy. Then she started saying ok you all keep doing whatever you want. I told her if her goal is for us to believe in Idol worshipping or having the kinda faith she does then that's not going to happen and she is self-harming herself. I also told her that you have to deal with your inner pain and find the courage to fight her own demons... She said that she is a person with a lot of fear and in my mind, I was so frustrated coz right now I am dealing with similar issues modelled by her to me. So she giving me passive aggressive treatment triggers me so badly... .I was terribly upset with her coz she didn't think of us coming as anything and only focussed on my dress and how we didn't visit 2 more temples... .Then my brain was juggling so many thoughts and thinking whether my mom or dad is truly BPD-like?

I have come to visit my parents without my H & daughter so that I can make it right in someway... .My parents have resentment between them and they have found a way that works for them... .They are together for 44 years and going strong but I truly want to break away from their model of marriage and have a loving model for myself. Don't get me wrong, I love my parents and they haven't directly abused us as kids but I am starting to seem some clarity in their r/s. They didn't live together with love but they lived together coz they HAD to.

I am leaving for my home in 2 days and I really want to leave happily and iron out the differences I have with my mom... .I get so drained with all this coz I am also figuring out stuff with H... .
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waitingwife
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 09:49:32 PM »

Another example with my BPDH is:

H: You always stare at me or I feel like you're observing me especially when we cisit family & friends?

Me: always defended myself and said how can you say that I am observing you? I'm your wife and why would I observe tou?

H: Dissatisfied and then after a passive aggressive week or so acts like nuthing happened.

We put this on the back burner and move on. I use to feel very hurt about him saying that I am always observing him when we're with my family during get togethers or at a family friends hous.

How would you best validate this and get to the root of it? I have dealt with this statement for like 13 years and we haven't gotten anywhere much.
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waitingwife
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2016, 04:46:59 AM »

Any inputs? I feel like I am struggling with tools to deal with a uBPDH and my own codependency issues. My FOO is fully codependent and the culture that I was raised in deeply is rooted in codependency but I as a very toung child has fought it and didn't know what was the missing piece but now when I look back, it was all codependency that I was fighting hard at every front... .At some point I got enmeshed and short changed and now I keep self-doubting if it's okay to make ammends especially towards my parents to NOT be codependent anymore... .Will they feel like when it was time to take, I have taken all their support and much more and now when they're old- I want to let them be and am seeking my personal space which I really am liking.
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2016, 09:54:18 AM »

Well to help with the scenario that you described with your husband, how I explain it is if he feels you are observing him then that's how he feels and you can't stop him from feeling that way. You would basically say something along the lines of, I can see how you would be uncomfortable with me observing you, that would make me uncomfortable too. Not agreeing with it, not disagreeing with it, not denying it (denial is a huge trigger with most BPD). You can also ask clarifying questions such as "what makes you feel that I am observing you?" Instead of "why would I observe you?" Can you tell the difference between the two. One is asking him why he feels the way he does and the other is cutting him off and saying he is wrong.

I would suggest you try to validate your mother as it seems she is the one playing the passive aggressive game and it would be practice for when you go home. I understand how you feel about the religion thing, I am actually an atheist and my husband is a Christian so I can relate a bit on the issue.

Validation makes someone feel heard and understood, you aren't trying to change how they are seeing the situation you are only acknowledging their feelings. I understand, I hear you, I get why you would feel that way. Reading your post you both validated and invalidated your mother. That's why the how to stop invalidating would be something you could read.

You said "you are choosing to hold onto all these negative things instead of being thankful for me going with you"

In this line you basically told her how she should feel, you can't change how she feels and you shouldn't be telling her how she should feel, it's completely invalidating. You could have said something to your mom like, I know that going to temple is something that is very important to you (makes her feel heard, understood), I went with you because I value you and want to spend time with you. You can't really change how she feels about the situation, that's something you need to accept. Trying to change how someone feels is a codependent thing. It's something you can work on dealing with. When you start to realize the difference between validation and actually changing how someone feels about something you'll get the hang of it more.

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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2016, 10:07:15 AM »

Wanted to add, part of learning how to validate is to try and find the feeling behind what they are saying, you can't always find it but when you can you can then validate the feeling. You aren't validating the action or complaint, only the feeling behind the complaint. For instance, imagine how your mom felt when you showed up in clothing that wasn't to her liking. She felt uncomfortable right? So you would say, "I hear you that you feel I am underdressed for temple and that it makes you uncomfortable, I get why you would feel that way, I can't change so please drop it" or something to that effect.

You could also say it without the last part.
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waitingwife
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2016, 12:56:42 PM »

That makes a lot of sense. I was feeling very wierd even thought I validates her and said I respect how important it is for you to visit the temple but I did not empathize and say - I understand or it must be hurtful when your kids don't comply with your religious beliefs. Then I also invalidated by saying you & me are never going to see eye to eye on this and you cannot force me to visit the temple with the kind of devotion you do. I could have left that out but I think it came out coz I am dealing with overcoming my codependency and how my mom has modelled so much codependent behaviour all her life. I agree it did not come from a place of compassion and as hard as it is for me but I am going to make ammends and try to redo it or validate her feelings more than I did or in a better way... .I'm reading the workshop page about the real feelings below the secondary emotions... Not yet mastered it yet.
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2016, 01:08:37 PM »

It takes time and practice and if anything is true, if you fail the first time, you will always get another chance at trying it again.

To be clear you did try and validate some, you have to be careful not to validate and then follow it by invalidation. for example, I understand you are upset but... .is a big one I can think of now or I hear what you are saying and I get why you are mad however... .the validation will be ignored and they will hear whatever is after the but or the however. It takes some time to master it in the moment.

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It's not the future you are afraid of, it's repeating the past that makes you anxious.
waitingwife
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2016, 08:39:37 AM »

I think I need to focus of eliminating the "but" after the validation... .As I practice and share here, I'm learning and gaining new insights. Thanks so much for that input. I do notice thst I used a lot of "but" and how thet made my own validation invalid in a lot of ways.
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