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Author Topic: Best Response to Guilt Trip from BPD Mother  (Read 1348 times)
anon72
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« on: April 25, 2016, 09:36:07 AM »

Hi everyone,

Let me put it in a nutshell.  My mother has used guilt with me my whole life, but I only recently became aware of it (when I finally realized that she had BPD).   I remember being told after a disagreement - that I would be sorry when she died - and I had been horrible (this was as a young boy).  Think it was probably even before I was 10 years old. 

She sent me a message on facebook today (as I haven't spoken or written to her for a few weeks), which was basically in essence stated - life seems to be going faster all the time - your father is working long hours like always - think he needs other members of the family to remind him that life is not forever on this earth. etc. etc.  Other than that - it was just a straightforward message - telling me the same stuff over and over again - but not authentic at all.  And very manipulative.

Anyways, it probably doesn't sound like much, but I have been getting horrible guilt trips my whole life - and I finally feel like I am getting Out of the FOG (but really don't know how to create boundaries and not react to this).  Does anyone have any suggestions?

I (like many of you) was never allowed to be a kid - and was made feel guilty for everything (including having feelings - having fun etc. etc.).  And I am not playing with this sort of stuff anymore - nor allowing my mother to manipulate me (which she had been doing my whole life).  Thanks in advance. 

Cheers,

Anon72
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Naughty Nibbler
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2016, 06:58:39 PM »

ANON72:

So sorry about your situation.  What would your mom likely do if you just ignored the Facebook post? 

Social media presents a lot of problems for people who have a BPD in their life (diagnosed or not, or just exhibit some of the behaviors).  The opportunity for spontaneity can be a problem and an area to set boundaries.

I'm glad I don't participate in Facebook.  I've learned how annoying email and texts can be.  My sister is the one in my life that is UBPD.  My only method of communications with her right now is by US Mail.  I finally had to block her on my cell phone, because she wouldn't comply with my advisement that I wouldn't accept them.  Just receiving a text or voice mail annoyed me.  I didn't listen to the voice mails or read the texts, after I advised her I wouldn't accept them.  It was still annoying to just see a message waiting, so I blocked her.

I guess everyone has to decide on the communication boundaries best for them and when to adjust the boundaries.  One option is ignore the Facebook post, or just stop using Facebook in general.
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isshebpd
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2016, 10:36:23 PM »

This is triangulation, I believe. Are you able to talk directly to your father without your mom's interference? I know my uBPDmom has always created barriers in communication between me and my enDad.
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Turkish
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 11:18:31 PM »

Hi anon72,

You've recently come to the realization that your mother is BPD. It probably was a harsh realization, and maybe explained you childhood, or whole life, really. Do you have trouble forgiving yourself for not wanting to answer her?

If you do answer, perhaps you can BIFF it. Brief, Informative, Friednly, Firm.

"Thanks for the update mom. Sounds like life is progressing as usual. I'll talk to you in a few weeks."

Then if she answers with more of her same... .wait those few weeks to answer. Have you seen the thread here about boundaries?
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anon72
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2016, 06:14:06 AM »

Turkish, yes - you hit the nail on the head.  I feel bad for not wanting to answer her bs msge, she has been doing this her whole life, and I always used to respond.

BIFF it, love it, never heard of that before. 

Boundaries, yes, but haven't had to really try any of that yet (as haven't had to see her personally yet). 

Naughty Nibbler:  Ignoring, that is a thought (was a message, not a post though).  Yes, social media can definitely create a lot of problems.   Re just receiving a text or voice message definitely annoys me also.  You are right, we all need to decide on our communication boundaries, too true.

Part of me wants to make it clear that I don't respond to guilt trips, but can imagine that will put her on the offensive and she will then start to make it out that I am being too sensitive and that was never her intent.  And then probably will start telling me that I am lucky to have my parents around, not like her - she just wished her parents had been around for longer.  So not sure being blunt or direct will even possibly help.

Thanks everyone.  I am talking to my Counsellor tonight, so will also be interested in her perspective. 

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busybee1116
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 09:12:58 AM »

She sent me a message on facebook today (as I haven't spoken or written to her for a few weeks), which was basically in essence stated - life seems to be going faster all the time - your father is working long hours like always - think he needs other members of the family to remind him that life is not forever on this earth. etc. etc.  Other than that - it was just a straightforward message - telling me the same stuff over and over again - but not authentic at all.  And very manipulative.

as issheBPD noted, this is triangulation. It took me a long time to recognize that my mother's helpful  suggestions or offhand comments were actually messages for other people and very manipulative. I finally realized she was aiming me at other family members like a gun rather than fighting her own battles. She had me tell my brother some pretty awful things this way (so I look awful and she can just seem concerned or later claimed I misunderstood or deny entirely) and helped her fight some very petty battles with my dad. It took awhile for me to recognize because like you, "it doesn't seem like much," but it's everything. There are lots of threads here about the drama triangle

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0

and then later you can read about wisemind

something that was also enormously helpful for me was learning about "medium chill." I use it all the time now and I think of it as how to BIFF

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=114204.0

I realized as well that I picked up bad habits from my parents and was using triangulation a lot in the way I communicate with others--recognizing that and stopping it has been helpful in changing/ending other relationships that were not healthy and improving communication other relationships. For example. My brother called upset about a trip my parents are making to visit him. My parents are retired and have all the time in the world. Mom is uBPD. My brother is the golden child. While there have been issues, my brother still enjoys my parents' company and visits. They have been talking casually about making this trip for a few months and would drive (a day's drive). They live in a senior community and there are activities that they regularly participate in. At the last minute, my dad decided not to go, even though my brother had talked about taking a day off to do things together and had ideas for other things they could do over the weekend. My dad's excuse was that there were too many things going on in their community and no one to look after their place. Lame excuses. So my brother called me mainly to complain about this and say how disappointed he was that my dad isn't coming. In the past, I would have carried this message to my mother... .who would have told my father, and after some more guilt-tripping (I'm sure my mother is pissed he's not going mainly because it's more driving for her), he would eventually go and be a total pill, figure out a way to cut the trip short. Instead... .I just asked my brother, ":)id you tell dad how sad you are that he isn't coming? That you were looking forward to seeing him, you had some plans already mapped out?" My brother said, "No." He laughed, he's starting to get it too. He's older, and a little behind me in figuring tis whole BPD thing out, but we're on the same page. We role played a little and he's going to call my dad towards the end of my mom's trip (not pressuring/guilt-tripping, using SET) and talk to him about how much he wanted to see him, disappointed he didn't come, hoped he would come soon/next time. My dad is uNPD. He wants you to basically BEG him to come, inconvenience yourself so it's worth his while, so he gets maximum attention. We don't want to do that either. But my brother didn't even state his feelings/needs, which isn't good either.

That was a rather convoluted story, but I hope you get what I mean! Hang in there, it takes time and I'm still catching myself... .but changing the way you talk to the disordered people in your life will change the way they talk to you. My mother has stopped giving me "messages" for my dad because I stopped being her messenger a few years ago. That was amazing.
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anon72
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 05:03:44 AM »

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, greatly appreciated.  Busybee, thank you for all your suggestions (both before and now, it is greatly appreciated)!  You have all given me a lot of food for thought.  

It is really weird, I have been doing so well (and having a break from this forum), but her message (and a couple of other things have triggered me in the last day or so).  It has been almost three months and I have improved so much, then I will have a day or two where I am triggered etc. - and get a bit anxious - and some of the old feelings come back.  I know it is temporary, but just freaks me out at times.  All I want to do right now is go for a motorbike ride and then cry, and I know that I need to do whatever is necessary to let me heal, no question about that.

This is the way that I ended up responding:  "regarding dad, that sounds difficult with dad working all the time".  etc. etc.

I decided that I will not engage with her drama, and will just be very chilled about the whole thing.  Empathetic but not passive aggressive.  

I still need to read more about boundaries and how to create them, that is what I will do more of shortly.

One more thing (that also helped set me off):  A friend of mine this morning wrote a post on facebook (as he is leaving to go overseas shortly for work) - that basically was positive saying that he appreciated the adventures and my friendship, but then the T-shirt image says "You don't always need a plan bro.  Sometimes you just need balls.  Harden the f... .k up".

That really hurt, I have been trying to be more authentic (and have been more authentic with him than anyone else), and know that my face conveys a deep sadness at times (even when I am doing my best to smile and have a laugh).  Slowly but surely I am peeling the layers away, but that sort of thing just reinforced the lack of empathy that I received as a child from my mother.  I will be fine, and know that I need to love myself, but just temporarily really hit me hard.  However, it is also possible (on second thoughts) that he was actually imagining that I was wearing the shirt and telling other people to get some balls and have some adventures.  I don't know, am just feeling a little sensitive.

Any thoughts?

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Naughty Nibbler
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 03:36:54 PM »

ANON72:

Perhaps you could use the thought on the tee shirt as motivation to sharpen up on boundary skills and other skills for handling BPD's.  I don't think your friend intended to hurt your feelings, but he may want you to be able to put your past behind you and enjoy life more.  People who haven't had your experiences can't fully understand.  If they have never been depressed, they may not understand why some people just can't suck it up.  It is so easy to say some things, if you have never had a taste of the problem.  I'm rather disorganized (perfectionist, so all or nothing is common).  A very organized friend once said, "all you have to do, is just do it".  In my experience, it is easier said than done, or easier to accomplish and harder to sustain.

I think it can be difficult for people, who don't have a pwBPD in their life, to understand.  Although women tend to be more open to talk about interpersonal relationships, I get the feeling that most people don't want to hear about our latest BPD drama, after a period of time.  One of the reasons I started therapy is that I felt I reached my limit on venting with a couple of friends.  I'm glad I started therapy, because I wouldn't have learned about BPD that my sister likely has it. 

One day when one friend of my was venting during a phone call,  I thought to myself, WOW, I must come across that way sometimes (venting about the same things over and over and perhaps overwhelming them, when they only want a little light conversation).  From that moment of realization, I've pulled back from general  discussions with friends regarding my BPD sister.  I will speak briefly with someone about my situation, if they ask.  For the mostpart, I now come to these messageboards to vent or in a therapy session. 

Don't be upset with your friend.  He was probably trying to inspire you in a macho guy kinda way - "be happy - just do it!"
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2016, 02:08:58 AM »

A former therapist enlightened me to the fact my mother projected guilt into me. This helped me to understand why I felt so bad whenever I interacted with her. Nothing has changed. I minimize my contact with her. I've learned to accept the reality of my situation. There is a 12 step program of recovery for adult children of dysfunctional families that has daily readings, weekly meetings. I find it very helpful.
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anon72
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2016, 05:35:11 AM »

ANON72:

Perhaps you could use the thought on the tee shirt as motivation to sharpen up on boundary skills and other skills for handling BPD's.  I don't think your friend intended to hurt your feelings, but he may want you to be able to put your past behind you and enjoy life more.  People who haven't had your experiences can't fully understand.  If they have never been depressed, they may not understand why some people just can't suck it up.  It is so easy to say some things, if you have never had a taste of the problem.  I'm rather disorganized (perfectionist, so all or nothing is common).  A very organized friend once said, "all you have to do, is just do it".  In my experience, it is easier said than done, or easier to accomplish and harder to sustain.

I think it can be difficult for people, who don't have a pwBPD in their life, to understand.  Although women tend to be more open to talk about interpersonal relationships, I get the feeling that most people don't want to hear about our latest BPD drama, after a period of time.  One of the reasons I started therapy is that I felt I reached my limit on venting with a couple of friends.  I'm glad I started therapy, because I wouldn't have learned about BPD that my sister likely has it. 

One day when one friend of my was venting during a phone call,  I thought to myself, WOW, I must come across that way sometimes (venting about the same things over and over and perhaps overwhelming them, when they only want a little light conversation).  From that moment of realization, I've pulled back from general  discussions with friends regarding my BPD sister.  I will speak briefly with someone about my situation, if they ask.  For the mostpart, I now come to these messageboards to vent or in a therapy session. 

Don't be upset with your friend.  He was probably trying to inspire you in a macho guy kinda way - "be happy - just do it!"

Thank you Naughty Nibbler Smiling (click to insert in post)  Very true, he didn't intend to hurt me, I know that, was meant with the best intentions.  I also think that he is probably too sensitive also, so may be sending a message to himself inadvertently also (as most people that get frustrated about something in someone else is due to them having similar issues with themselves). 

But regardless, of course it is very difficult for him to understand - and he meant well - you are correct (fyi, I never said anything to him about it, and he has only gotten to know me recently - when I am still coming out the other side of realizing and struggling with all this stuff).  Yes, you are right, unless you have had these experiences, is very difficult for someone to understand.  I know that his mother was an alcoholic, so it seems like he dealt with some of that stuff a few years ago (including serious anger), so he has had issues (but still is different - although very challenging - and I cannot imagine what it was like).  Anyways, I am definitely using it as motivation to continue improving, just had a rough day or two.  Thanks for reminding me that everything is a lesson.  Or as Gabby Bernstein says - treat every relationship interaction as an experiment (or something similar - can't remember exactly). 

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busybee1116
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2016, 08:54:46 AM »

One more thing (that also helped set me off):  A friend of mine this morning wrote a post on facebook (as he is leaving to go overseas shortly for work) - that basically was positive saying that he appreciated the adventures and my friendship, but then the T-shirt image says "You don't always need a plan bro.  Sometimes you just need balls.  Harden the f... .k up".

That really hurt, I have been trying to be more authentic (and have been more authentic with him than anyone else), and know that my face conveys a deep sadness at times (even when I am doing my best to smile and have a laugh).  Slowly but surely I am peeling the layers away, but that sort of thing just reinforced the lack of empathy that I received as a child from my mother.  I will be fine, and know that I need to love myself, but just temporarily really hit me hard.  However, it is also possible (on second thoughts) that he was actually imagining that I was wearing the shirt and telling other people to get some balls and have some adventures.  I don't know, am just feeling a little sensitive.

Any thoughts?

I think both interpretations can be correct, and it depends how you are feeling in the moment. I use triggering things like this now to reflect a little, wow that hurt--why? And if there's a possible more positive explanation (he's telling me I'm strong/wearing this shirt), why am I being so sensitive? Neither is wrong--it's just an exercise in figuring out what's going on in my mind or my life in that moment. I've figured out I'm more prone to feeling triggered when I'm tired (either not enough sleep or overextending myself) and it's time to go to bed or say no/drop some work or take a day off. It's also been helpful to use moments like that to decide if a friendship is worth keeping or not and if I can have a conversation with that person to gently figure out what they meant. Sometimes I misinterpret. Sometimes I don't need that friend anymore. I think pausing--hey, what was that about? is huge, indicates progress. Especially when you can see that it might be the way you are interpreting/experiencing the event. You're not just reacting anymore, you're responding, being curious about what is happening. That isn't to say it's easy! It's hard work!
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anon72
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2016, 09:40:08 PM »

Yes, very true Busybee, I am going to remind myself to treat all relationships and interactions as learning experiences/experiments (as Gabby Bernstein refers to them), and reflect on why that hurt for example.  

If I ask myself that question, I would say that whenever I used to tell my mum something - I was always told that I was over-sensitive (and it was discounted) - so anytime that someone starts telling me to be "less sensitive", I guess that it triggers the whole mum not listening to me and telling me that I needed to be less sensitive (when in actual fact - she discounted my feelings - and told me that they were invalid).  The other thing I would think - is that I am working on this aspect of my life - so I already know this - and tend to get defensive.  When in actual fact - I need to work on "letting go" with respect to this - and accept this is part of my personality (and I will become less sensitive over time as I work on myself).  So next time, i will try and accept any comments that are valid (rather than getting defensive) or even if it still triggers me (which is also okay too), I will work on reflecting a little more.

Yes, and the other thing you mentioned is so true - I am trying to remind myself how I am feeling at that moment.  For example, it is a busy stage of the year - so am a little tired and a spot stressed at times - so I had an early night last night (and sleep in today).  And being curious about what is happening - so true - am going to keep doing that.  And also another thing that I will keep working on - is to recognize what feeling I have and that it is just that - a feeling which is temporary - even if am feeling angry - "I am experiencing anger", NOT I am angry - that makes a huge difference.

Hope my stream of consciousness discussion with myself (which really helps me Smiling (click to insert in post) was perhaps useful to someone else (along with me).  Thank you Busybee  , I really appreciate you helping me reflect Smiling (click to insert in post)  
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