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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Middle School (part 2)  (Read 486 times)
Thunderstruck
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« on: April 26, 2016, 10:04:29 AM »

SD11 has always attended the same elementary school. DH and uBPDbm used to live together in that school district until SD was in 2nd grade, when he moved out. uBPDbm remained in that district until this past fall when she moved (technically was evicted) out of the school district.

DH and I lived in the next county over (~15 miles from SD's school). We sold our house and had planned to move into a different, better school system... .but decided to move into SD's current school district so that she could continue on to her middle school without interruption.

Of course when we first mentioned to uBPDbm that we wanted SD to attend school in the better district (where we had originally planned to move), she insisted that SD stay in the current district. Then when we changed our plans and moved to SDs current district, uBPDbm now says that she doesn't want SD attending that school. She says "I will look into schools and let you know" and that's all we've gotten out of her. 

Apparently a few weeks ago some forms came home to register SD for middle school. They have been "misplaced". We didn't know anything about them, so we asked the teacher for another set to fill out.

How do you think we should proceed here? I want to make sure we inform uBPDbm properly and our messages look reasonable, because I'm guessing we'll have to bring them to court to resolve this matter.

I was thinking something simple, like "The forms for middle school came home and we filled them out." But then we don't have a clue how to respond when she rages and says "No".
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"Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength."

"The sun shines and warms and lights us and we have no curiosity to know why this is so. But we ask the reason of all evil, of pain, and hunger, and mosquitos and silly people." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
bravhart1
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2016, 11:23:56 AM »

What is the actual timeshare, custody at this time?

If dad has more than 50% then I would just fill out forms however you like.

If dad is residential parent, same thing.

(I personally would fill out forms how ever you like, but I've stopped trying to appease BPDm for a while now, since there was NO appeasing her)

Maybe approach it as if there was no question in your mind as to SD continuing in this district and just move forward. Would mom even say or do anything at this point to change it? Court is expensive, and mom may not have enough time to make a stink. If she says "no", I wouldn't take it as gospel, just her opinion, and leave it at that. Let her figure out how to fight it.

Since she originally said she wanted this one then changed her mind, (hope that was in writing) I would go for a "mom has oppositional issues" if it ever went to court.
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david
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2016, 11:34:12 AM »

Our youngest starts middle school next year. His mom insists, since kindergarten, that he has a learning disability. She had the school take him out of the AP classes for next year. I signed the over ride forms and said nothing to her. He is currently in an accelerated program and is doing well.

Next year either she will not realize what is happening or she will get angry. If she gets angry she will have to take me to court to get him out of the AP classes. I stopped trying to find common ground between us several years ago and she hasn't done a thing about any of my decisions besides sending me a nasty or threatening email. I can live with that.

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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2016, 11:40:08 AM »

50/50. "The parties shall have temporary shared parental responsibility". There is nothing that states who is residential for school (or otherwise).

Our plan is definitely to fill out the forms and proceed as if SD will be attending her middle school.

I don't think uBPDbm would do anything through the court to have the school changed. I think she would do things like throw away the original forms and not tell us they even existed (as I said, they were "misplaced", register SD for another school in secret, and play a bunch of dirty tricks to try to have SD on the first day of school. She would probably go as far as showing up at the school and yanking her out to transfer her to another school. We just want to avoid all that drama and have it clearly specified before school starts.

But when we go to the court, I want to make sure everything we have done up until now has been on the level. If we argue that she made the decision to change schools unilaterally then I don't want us to look like we made the decision to stay unilaterally.
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"Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength."

"The sun shines and warms and lights us and we have no curiosity to know why this is so. But we ask the reason of all evil, of pain, and hunger, and mosquitos and silly people." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
david
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2016, 11:48:02 AM »

Suppose BPDm decides to fight you in court. Lets look at the facts.1) Mom was kicked out of the school district. That may take some finesse on how to present that in court but it should be presented. 2) You moved into sd's school district to maintain stability since mom was evicted. On top of that you wanted to move to another district you believed better but BPDm disagreed so, in an attempt to "co parent", you changed your mind and moved into her current district. I assume you have evidence to those communications.

Perhaps BPDm could explain her position on the stand so that everyone understands.

If mom tries to change what school sd is going to I believe she would have to notify her current school. I would hand deliver the forms needed for middle school and let them know what is going on. Make sure they agree to contact you if anything happens.
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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 12:12:58 PM »

Ok, maybe when uBPDbm argues about SD attending "our" middle school our response could look something like "We are supposed to discuss and agree before making any changes. Neither of us should be changing SDs school without conferring with the other parent." And maybe ask her for her justifications for desiring a school change?

I'm also wondering if we can go to the CE and say "Hey, this one issue is time sensitive... .could we just get your recommendation on this while we finish up the rest?" Or get some other recommendation from her on how to proceed.

Don't worry david, all our communication is through OFW so it's all saved. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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"Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength."

"The sun shines and warms and lights us and we have no curiosity to know why this is so. But we ask the reason of all evil, of pain, and hunger, and mosquitos and silly people." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Thunderstruck
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 07:46:52 AM »

Ok, we filled out the forms and submitted them today. We told uBPDbm about it. Her reaction (as expected) was "you had no right. Who said I want her going to that school?"

Um, you did lady.   Until we moved into the district, of course.

We replied and uBPDbm has ignored the messages. 
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"Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength."

"The sun shines and warms and lights us and we have no curiosity to know why this is so. But we ask the reason of all evil, of pain, and hunger, and mosquitos and silly people." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 07:53:25 AM »

What was your reply? 

I am not sure I would have told her until school was out for the spring... .Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2016, 08:09:20 AM »

"We have shared parenting, so if either of us wanted to change her school then we would discuss it with each other and agree. I proposed moving her school to the (higher rated schools in another district). You disagreed and instead insisted that she stay in (the current county) at (the current middle school). There has been no other discussion or agreement to change her school, which is why I moved into this school district."

The message hasn't been read.

Now was probably a good time to tell her. Like I said, we want to appear to be on the level and not hide anything. The CE has been contacting her to set up another home visit, so she might feel like she's still under a microscope and might behave. In any case, if she doesn't behave then we still have an open investigation with the CE and it will be brought to the CEs attention immediately.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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"Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength."

"The sun shines and warms and lights us and we have no curiosity to know why this is so. But we ask the reason of all evil, of pain, and hunger, and mosquitos and silly people." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
david
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2016, 11:45:46 AM »

I think that was a great response. It covered everything.

If this were my ex she would send a few long and threatening emails. My ex likes to send me emails like that and also cc them to her atty. I think she is trying to scare me when she does that. If I did respond, which I probably would not since I already said everything I needed to say, I would simply repeat exactly what I already said.

I think you set a good boundary.
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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2016, 10:12:14 AM »

DH asked her numerous times not to involve SD11 until they have discussed the change and have come to an agreement. Ok... .we made some attempts at "discussing" this issue with BPDmom. He pointed out the instability in her living situation ("What happens if your roommate moves out? The last time you moved it was out of her district" and she blew up. uBPDbm is now refusing to read or respond to his messages.

Yesterday DH sent a letter to the CE asking "How should we proceed?". He explained that this is the parenting issue that is time sensitive and if the report is coming out soon, that should cover it, but if not then how can we get this resolved?

This morning he got a letter from SD11's teacher. SD11 walked into the classroom and said she wasn't going to her middle school and she didn't know what school she would be going to and seemed upset.

Tonight I suppose we'll have to sit down with SD11 and have a talk. SD11 complains about being placed in the middle, so we are going to have to figure out how to keep her out of the middle without invalidating her/not listening to her wishes.
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"Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength."

"The sun shines and warms and lights us and we have no curiosity to know why this is so. But we ask the reason of all evil, of pain, and hunger, and mosquitos and silly people." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
david
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2016, 10:25:01 AM »

My ex did things like that in the past. She still does but not as much. I told the boys, when they approached me about whatever issue it was, that the decision was between mom and me and if we could not find an agreeable solution the judge would. I usually knew what they were thinking/wanted/etc beforehand since they approached me with the issue and were expressing their fears/thoughts/etc. I also explained that the judge was supposed to make his ruling on what was best for them. That usually opened them up and they would tell me what they thought was best. I would listen and validate at that point.

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david
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2016, 10:32:35 AM »

Another thought, when my ex did those things it felt to me like she was using the boys to communicate to me. I kept that in mind whenever I talked to ex by not letting on what our boys talked to me about. I believed that bringing up my conversation, between the boys and me, to ex was a way for her to "feel engaged". Not sure if I am explaining myself clearly.

I also believed that ex would grill the boys about what we talked about so I was careful to keep things factual and generic.

I still get emails I view as fishing for info or attempts at engaging.
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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2016, 10:43:07 AM »

uBPDbm keeps saying "It's up to SD11 to decide. I'm not going to force a school on her." then she adds the caveat "But she's going to the school in my district".   So uBPDbm is pressuring SD11 to "choose" to go to the school in BPDmom's district, and it's making SD11 upset.

We will probably tell SD11 something like... ."These are the kinds of issues that happen with moms house/dads house families. We want to hear your opinion but we do not want to place you in the middle. So please tell us everything you think. We will use your opinion along with other factors to form our opinion. Then daddy and mommy will vote. If the vote is a tie, then the judge is a tiebreaker."

I like to include humor, so maybe I'll say "Both parents need to agree. If daddy wanted to change your school to Kitten University, he wouldn't be able to enroll you unless mommy also agreed."

If we said "SD11 wants this" then uBPDbm would just say we're lying and then pressure SD into wanting what she (uBPDbm) wants. So it's very pointless to mention anything SD11 says to uBPDbm.
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"Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength."

"The sun shines and warms and lights us and we have no curiosity to know why this is so. But we ask the reason of all evil, of pain, and hunger, and mosquitos and silly people." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2016, 11:49:23 AM »

With time and parenting authority equal, then keeping the children in the same school is the default preference of the courts.  As in, "Why change what's been working all along?"

Register and don't get into a big back-and-forth that won't get anywhere positive.

The email history already can be used to prove she is oppositional and not cooperative.

Excerpt
Enroll in this better school?

No, she stays where she is.

We moved into school district so she can attend with current schoolmates.

No, she will attend where I am.

Based on her current school, who is within the school district, and mother changing the goalposts, it ought to be "less difficult" to become Residential Parent for School Purposes.

I bet she tries to move back into the area if she senses that's what it takes to stay entitled.  Hopefully it will be too late when she realizes that.

SD11 is getting close to the time when the court might include her wishes in a decision, but the court ought to be at least a little skeptical if she wants to transition away from the friends and schoolmates she's known for years.
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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2016, 02:48:41 PM »

DH forwarded the email he got from the teacher to the CE. She wrote back and said she scheduled a home visit with uBPDbm for Wednesday morning. I think she wanted to do ours at the same time since we live near(ish) to each other.

Then a report can be released. (Fingers crossed).

Hopefully showing the CE what effect this delay in getting the CE report has on SD11 spurs her into finishing it quickly.
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"Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength."

"The sun shines and warms and lights us and we have no curiosity to know why this is so. But we ask the reason of all evil, of pain, and hunger, and mosquitos and silly people." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
bravhart1
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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2016, 12:43:38 AM »

Sorry to hear how stressful all this has been. I remember when we were going through something very similar when it was time to pick a school for my SD to start kinder. Moms choice was near her residence but no where near as good academically as the school that is two blocks from us. Mom didn't care, she just wanted her way. Three years later SD still says mom is changing her school, and that this school isn't as good as "moms".

I am holding good thoughts for the CE to be clear that mom has BPD and is unable to co-parent in any logical or appropriate manner.

Your DH should without a doubt be made residential parent and even granted full legal custody to prevent these tug of wars mom seems to enjoy. It's just simply too hard on your Sd11 to be placed in the middle when mom wants to throw her weight around.
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david
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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2016, 09:20:24 AM »

The less details I told our boys about parental decisions the less information my ex got out of them. I also made sure whatever they told me did not get back to my ex by me. My communication, email only, was strictly between the ex and me. What our boys said to me was not part of my emails.  It eventually took them out of the middle because they had nothing to offer her.

I was unable to help them when they were with her, as far as her grilling them, but I wasn't adding any fuel to the fire. If ex grilled them the most they could say was that dad said he was doing what he thought was best for us. If ex wanted more she would have to email me. I would reply as short and simple as possible. I rarely, after years of practice, explain myself or my reasoning.

The most recent example. Ex did send me an email asking me why I signed the form to put our son in the honors math course for 7th grade. I simply replied that I had a multitude of reasons and I would appreciate her support of my decision.
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