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Author Topic: Trying to talk to s9  (Read 406 times)
bus boy
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« on: April 27, 2016, 07:56:17 PM »

I'm having a hard time talking to s9. Getting proper access has been very difficult. Now maintaining it is tough. In December exBPD wife and I had a hearing confrience, not a trial, we sat with lawyers and s judge and hammered out an access agreement. Both sides had to agree an everything, the judge was there to guide not judge. Now like every agreement in the past, she is trying to cut back on my access. S9 is fine until he calls his mother, he wants to go home. Ex BPD has total control over s9, he always wants to have his story stright before he talks to her, tell mommy this, don't tell mommy that, what should I tell mommy if she asks this or that, I forgot to call mommy what do I tell her why I didn't call. S9 tells her he asks to come home but I don't let him. He asked me once and I hated to buy I said he had to stay, he talked to his mom and all of a sudden wanted to go home. I have missed so much time with s9, not from a lack of trying. He lies to his mother and says I won't let him go home. I try to talk to s9 but he changes the topic, gets all figgity, uncomfortable and stammering over his words. The time I said s9 had to stay s9 was good with it, his mother called 8 times text 2 times. I shut the ringer off and now I don't let s9 talk to his mother until bed time. He get to stressed out if he doesn't call, says mommy will drill him with questions if he forgets to call. I think it's very sad a 9 year old has to lie and get his story stright for his mother.
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Turkish
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Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2016, 12:20:35 AM »

9. Depending upon how emotionally mature he is, it might be time to have the talk that he's not responsible for someone else's feelings. Not mentioning his mom at all, you can point to you. Or his peers.
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bus boy
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2016, 03:58:12 AM »

S9 is with me until Sunday. I will talk to him when he goes to bed, he seems to open up more when he's in bed. I know something isn't right. S9 mother is a minuplating master, I refer to her as cunning, baffling, and powerful. S9 can tell some tall stories as well. I fear he's become conditioned to lie to protect him self. He gets fearful as to what to say to his mother, I tell s9, tell the truth, blame daddy if you have to. So when she tells me I wouldn't let s9 come home, I know she is behind it, bc he only ever asked once to go home early and that was right after he called her.
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SallyForth

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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2016, 05:35:29 PM »

That is such a tough situation you are in .  We go through the same thing with SS14, and SD14.  They are in constant contact with their uBPN mother via texts and phone calls.  I mean CONSTANTLY

Since my fiancé's visitation is every other weekend (Fri eve-Monday morning) and Wednesday evening for dinner, his ex liked to EMPHASIZE that HER house was HOME. 

We learned to remind the kids that OUR home was THEIR home too!  And with the help of the Psychologist, we implemented Parallel Parenting instead of Co-Parenting.  Rules at moms and dads house are different, and that's OK. 

When fiancé tries to discipline or give consequences to his kids, they call/txt mom and then the drama gets turned up to 11 and the kids scream to leave back "home".  Fiancé then reminds them in a loving way that the ARE home.  Funny how one parent can word things to make it seem like the other parents house is somehow Less significant... .

You are lucky your son is old enough to take away his phone for a reprieve from his mom.  If we tried, we'd have WW3 on our hands.

Keep up the good work staying on the moral high ground  at least your son see's ONE parent set a good example

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Turkish
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Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2016, 05:46:35 PM »

When he was 5, S6 tried to pull the "this is My house!" on me. I saw that he was power-tripping. I said, "No, son, this is MY home, and I let you live here! Someday, it will probably be yours, but as long as I am here, I'm in charge." He may have had another message in there, but he never brought it up again.

Followed up later by validating talk that the three of us were a family together here in the home, and that Mommy wasn't coming back, etc... .
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livednlearned
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2016, 07:34:39 PM »

I'm having a hard time talking to s9.

I understand. Kids who have BPD parents feel scared to differentiate and be their own person. BPD parents tend to see the kids as extensions of themselves. Having bad boundaries with kids can be very psychologically damaging.

So when you are talking to S9, he is probably in a bit of a panic because he is terrified to differentiate from his mom, even though he desires it desperately. He knows if he differentiates, he will probably be punished.

Does he have a T? Someone other than his parents to talk to? He may need to establish a trusting relationship with someone who can help point out how he genuinely feels. I found it was really hard to slow the conversation and point out enmeshed thinking. Therapists are less invested, less emotional, and have the skills to spot it when it's happening.

We have to become expert at validation to help our kids recognize their own feelings. It's the root of having a strong sense of self, to know what we feel in a genuine sense. His mother will feel threatened when S9 feels different than she does (like wanting to spend time with you).

Bill Eddy's book Don't Alienate the Kids about raising resilient kids really helped me in this regard.

The skills to deal with enmeshed/alienated kids are tough to learn and apply consistently. Especially when our own panic buttons are being pushed.
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bus boy
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2016, 06:58:54 AM »

"His mother will feel threatened when he feels different when she does" I got a lot out of that quote. It is so true. There is so much unhealthy family alienation in exBPD life and it's also a part of s9 life. S9 mother, her father, her mother and ex BPD siblings will not speak a single word to any of the extended family on both sides. This means aunts, uncles, grand parents, cousins, the whole clan is dead in her and her families eyes, there fore it should extend into s9. I know all of ex BPD relatives , many of them are friends of mine. Last night s9 and I ran into his grand uncle, an uncle to ex BPD. Very respected man in the community. Several years ago he found his wife dead in a single vehicle crash, ex BPD said " he deserved to find her". S9 told his mother he met her uncle. S9 put all the math together on his own and started asking questions about a whole new family he didn't know existed. When I first started getting access, I took s9 to visit his old gr grandmother, s9 mother was fit to be tied. Back than not knowing about PD's and seeing hope for us, I let her slither her way into my court order. S9 is growing up not knowing why these good people are out of his life and I would rather have him ask me questions than her bc he will be pumped with lies. S9 mother called frantically several times after s9 hung up and she text 4 times. Asking in an ignorant fashion if s9 is able to talk, meaning I was listening in on there conversation. I don't do that, that's her projection bc she does that when I talk to s9, its on speaker phone and her Vulcan hearing catches all. I did not answer her. The court order states she gets one goodnight phone call and she got it. I turn the ringer off bc she sinks her claws in s9 and he wants to go home. I am free of a lot of guilt today by introducing s9 to his grand uncle. My theory is, let s9 meet the family, if he chooses not to talk to them it's his choice, he was alianated from my family as well and had fear in him if mommy finds out he was visiting them.
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scraps66
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2016, 07:04:06 AM »

Also talk about the fact that he can have his own feelings no matter what someone else tells him and that no one should influence him to feel anything but his own feelings.  He should not feel the obligation to assume someone else's feelings.  Doing otherwise is an abusive form of invalidation and mind games.
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david
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2016, 09:39:56 AM »

When we first separated and I went to pick our two boys up (4 and 9 at the time) it would take about an hour for them to calm down. They would be out of control for lack of a better way to describe it. The transitions were terrible.

As they got older they got better and the transition time was much less. usually there is no problem anymore.They are 12 and 17 now. It took about three years before it was completely gone.

Ex had picked a T for the boys back in 2008. I went with them without ex. The T wanted to talk to me and left the boys alone in a separate room. I had just picked them up at ex's place and they were bouncing off the walls. I could hear the noise and told the T I needed to talk to the boys. I calmly told them they needed to chill out. They were much better but still not their normal self. We had another meeting a week later and I talked to them before we arrived. They were their normal selves that time. After the meeting the T wanted to talk to me alone. The T pointed out that was the first time she saw them so calm and relaxed. I explained what happened the time before and then this time. We continued for several months with no behavior issues. Apparently both boys were bouncing off the walls every time that ex brought them.

Staying focused on their needs and learning how to listen and validate was the key for me. Because of my ex I have become a much better parent.
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