Phone contact

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi friends,

The last few months have been a nightmare of relentless conflict and badmouthing.  My ex is really digging in her heels to alienate me with our 13 yo son.

There’s many issues on the run at the moment, but I really need some guidance on the main one, to do with phone contact during his time with me.

At the beginning of this year, my ex got him a phone and she's been constantly texting and calling him ever since during his time with me (our agreement is we arrange for a phone call to be made every 3rd night).  Over our week together in the last school holidays, she sent him 40 texts and called 9 times; and it wasn’t pleasant content, our holiday was completely ruined because she caused so much drama and was constantly badmouthing me to him over the phone.

After the holiday debacle, I’d had enough and emailed my ex to set some clear boundaries with his phone but she replied with the “how dare you!” speech and has completely ignored the courtesies I asked to be respected in my house  The boundaries were (1) wait until our son replies to her text before texting again, (2) text me if she wants him to call her rather than calling unannounced and (3) no badmouthing.  If the courtesies weren’t respected then I would block her phone until the next changeover.

The next time I saw our son after the email was sent, he argued with me that he wants to be able to contact his mother whenever he chooses and not to block her phone.  My son and I agreed to a compromise that (1) his mother could text him rather than me if she wants a phone call (2) he can’t call her before school, (3) he’s to tell me if she calls unannounced or badmouths me.

Last week and after our compromise agreement, my son admitted that he had called her before school, but that it was “only for 2 minutes”.  I said it doesn’t matter how long, that its important to keep agreements and I took his phone away for the rest of the night. I never punish him so this was hard for me, but the phone is becoming such a problem and intrusion that I had to shown him that I’m serious about the rules.  The next morning I checked his phone and found that he didn’t call her at all, but she called him.  I assume he lied to protect her.

Today I receive an email from my ex making me out to be a monster for “ALL” the rules and penalties I’m imposing, that I’m taking his “freedom” away and show him “no respect” etc etc etc. She says she has shown the email to our son and is “speaking on his behalf” because “you shut him down and don’t listen to him" and she also cc’d him to his email address.  She rationalises that I’m imposing these rules because I’m “jealous” of her relationship with him and that he’ll now have to delete their messages and phone call records so I’m teaching him to “lie” and be “deceitful”.

I’d love to just block her phone all the time when he’s with me and have peace but (1) she’s been threatening to ignore our parenting schedule, and this could give her the excuse to do it and (2) it makes me the bad guy with our son, even though he doesn't understand that she doesn't know how to do things within reasonable bounds.

Any ideas?

[Concord]

Hi friends,

The last few months have been a nightmare of relentless conflict and badmouthing.  My ex is really digging in her heels to alienate me with our 13 yo son.

There’s many issues on the run at the moment, but I really need some guidance on the main one, to do with phone contact during his time with me.

At the beginning of this year, my ex got him a phone and she's been constantly texting and calling him ever since during his time with me (our agreement is we arrange for a phone call to be made every 3rd night).  Over our week together in the last school holidays, she sent him 40 texts and called 9 times; and it wasn’t pleasant content, our holiday was completely ruined because she caused so much drama and was constantly badmouthing me to him over the phone.

After the holiday debacle, I’d had enough and emailed my ex to set some clear boundaries with his phone but she replied with the “how dare you!” speech and has completely ignored the courtesies I asked to be respected in my house  The boundaries were (1) wait until our son replies to her text before texting again, (2) text me if she wants him to call her rather than calling unannounced and (3) no badmouthing.  If the courtesies weren’t respected then I would block her phone until the next changeover.

The next time I saw our son after the email was sent, he argued with me that he wants to be able to contact his mother whenever he chooses and not to block her phone.  My son and I agreed to a compromise that (1) his mother could text him rather than me if she wants a phone call (2) he can’t call her before school, (3) he’s to tell me if she calls unannounced or badmouths me.

Last week and after our compromise agreement, my son admitted that he had called her before school, but that it was “only for 2 minutes”.  I said it doesn’t matter how long, that its important to keep agreements and I took his phone away for the rest of the night. I never punish him so this was hard for me, but the phone is becoming such a problem and intrusion that I had to shown him that I’m serious about the rules.  The next morning I checked his phone and found that he didn’t call her at all, but she called him.  I assume he lied to protect her.

Today I receive an email from my ex making me out to be a monster for “ALL” the rules and penalties I’m imposing, that I’m taking his “freedom” away and show him “no respect” etc etc etc. She says she has shown the email to our son and is “speaking on his behalf” because “you shut him down and don’t listen to him" and she also cc’d him to his email address.  She rationalises that I’m imposing these rules because I’m “jealous” of her relationship with him and that he’ll now have to delete their messages and phone call records so I’m teaching him to “lie” and be “deceitful”.

I’d love to just block her phone all the time when he’s with me and have peace but (1) she’s been threatening to ignore our parenting schedule, and this could give her the excuse to do it and (2) it makes me the bad guy with our son, even though he doesn't understand that she doesn't know how to do things within reasonable bounds.

Any ideas?

[Thunderstruck]

Ugh, phone drama. We tried getting SD11 a phone a few years ago and we ended up shutting it off shortly after because 1) it caused soo much more arguing between her uBPDbm and us and 2) SD wasn't following the rules.

Who pays for S13's phone?

Can you just impose a "No phone" rule at your house? I mean, it's not like he really *needs* it, he's only 13. I was 22 by the time I ever got a cell phone.

It sounded like you already talked with S13... .he is old enough for you to be able to say to him "hey, this phone is causing us a real headache here. I don't want this at all. I don't want there to be fighting. So what do you think we should do about this?" You already came up with rules x, y, and z but S13 didn't follow them. Ask HIM what he thinks the rules should be to help cut down on the chaos. Explain to him your point of view ("I just want to be able to enjoy my time with you in peace". Then ask him what the punishments should be if the rules aren't followed? If he has more of a say in the rules and punishments then he won't feel like you're not listening to him.

Keep in mind with the rule about the badmouthing... .he can't help what BPDmom says. He also can't help what she does. She texts and calls because she wants to be in control. That's on her. What you should be focusing on is teaching S13 how to handle himself if and when she steps on boundaries. But these should be HIS boundaries.

There is no excuse for her to ignore the parenting schedule. Stick to it 100%.

[ForeverDad]

About the badmouthing... .

It took several years but eventually my court spoke up and made a decision that my Ex was "disparaging father" in son's presence.  My lawyers and GAL pretty much ignored it until I became Custodial Parent in a 1.5 year case.  But she still continued and I went back yet again for another 1.5 years to get majority time which I hadn't gotten before.  The order mentioned disparaging or disparagement at least 6 times!  Clearly the magistrate was at least a little peeved mother was continuing the conflict over 5 years after the final decree.

I recall when I first separated that my Ex demanded I not hang up on her but she regularly hung up on me.  It took a while for me to get fed up (realizing nothing good came from staying online) and end a call when she was ranting.  That was a good boundary I had to learn.

Perhaps you should work with your son to explain boundaries and why they're beneficial.  In this case he would benefit from knowing when and how to end a call when it devolves into ranting or badmouthing.  Yes, the first few times will be rough, the new boundary will be tested and pressured.  Be aware a firm boundary is much better than a weak or inconsistent boundary.  Also understand that when exceptions are made, as sometimes happen, his misbehaving parent will feel it is once again a boundary to be retested.

He might say... ."These are Dad's rules in his home, that he is to follow the court order."

Or don't lay any fault at Dad's feet, let the lawyers or the court be the scapegoat... ."The court order says... ."

I remember when my son was 4 and I had him with me on vacation a few states away and I was instructed to make sure he spoke with his mother every 2 or 3 days (she refused to call).  One day he said "bye" to his mother SIX times before the call finally ended when she hung up.  Your son is older, with your help (and rules) he can be empowered to set a reasonable but firm boundary.

[Bright Day Mom]

You have to love your child more than you hate your ex.  Bottom line, not cool for either of you to put him in the middle. 

What is wrong with him calling /texting mom in the morning before school?  So long as he's ready for school, dressed, fed, homework, on time, what difference does it make if he texts Mom or a  friend?  Be a little more flexible / reasonable and let your son have  a good male role model to look up to.

[Concord]

Who pays for S13's phone?

Ex pays

Can you just impose a "No phone" rule at your house? I mean, it's not like he really *needs* it, he's only 13. I was 22 by the time I ever got a cell phone.

I’d prefer not to punish him by taking away his phone because of his mother’s behaviour. It’s also beneficial for him to have a phone to be contactable as well as stay in touch with friends.

It sounded like you already talked with S13... .he is old enough for you to be able to say to him "hey, this phone is causing us a real headache here. I don't want this at all. I don't want there to be fighting. So what do you think we should do about this?" You already came up with rules x, y, and z but S13 didn't follow them. Ask HIM what he thinks the rules should be to help cut down on the chaos. Explain to him your point of view ("I just want to be able to enjoy my time with you in peace".

That’s exactly what I did and how we came up with revised boundaries.

Then ask him what the punishments should be if the rules aren't followed? If he has more of a say in the rules and punishments then he won't feel like you're not listening to him.

We didn’t get to punishments and it didn't think to go that far. He’s a good kid who is just trying to make everyone happy.  He just answered the phone call before school, so it was ex who called unannounced when I’d asked her not to.  I'll give this some thought.

Keep in mind with the rule about the badmouthing... .he can't help what BPDmom says. He also can't help what she does. She texts and calls because she wants to be in control. That's on her. What you should be focusing on is teaching S13 how to handle himself if and when she steps on boundaries. But these should be HIS boundaries.

Oh I understand he can’t control badmouthing. Problem is he doesn’t recognise it until it’s extreme, but she’s constantly dropping covert criticisms like “If Dad’s being difficult …”, “If Dad’s not listening to you….”.  He’s starting to believe I’m difficult and don’t listen him because he’s being told all the time.  And he’s now being told in my house.

There is no excuse for her to ignore the parenting schedule. Stick to it 100%.

I always do.  My last 3 weekends have been disrupted with ex picking up from school on Friday or keeping longer than schedule.  Again, each time I just stick to the scheduled changeover.

You have to love your child more than you hate your ex.  Bottom line, not cool for either of you to put him in the middle. 

I’m not sure how I’ve put him in the middle. I emailed ex directly to request some courtesies with phone contact.  Ex then briefed S13 and he came back to negotiate based on what ex told him.  I listened to S13 and we came up with revised boundaries we were both happy with.  What else could I have done?

What is wrong with him calling /texting mom in the morning before school?  So long as he's ready for school, dressed, fed, homework, on time, what difference does it make if he texts Mom or a  friend?  Be a little more flexible / reasonable and let your son have  a good male role model to look up to.

Ex was calling him before school and he was nearly late for school twice.  She just stays on the phone with him and he can get distracted with time.  I don’t see the need for him to call his mother (and listen to her criticisms of me) before school and after school on the same day. One day they were on the phone for nearly 30 minutes in the morning (he was late for the bus but luckily the bus was also running late and he just made it) and an hour after school, and he got no homework or chores done.  It’s just very disruptive to our home and routine.

Flexible doesn’t work as it’s just abused and is like a runaway train.

Thanks for replies everyone   Still not sure what to do...

[Bright Day Mom]

Maybe set some new ":)ad house rules".  IE, phones go to charge night (not in bedroom) and are not in hand until morning rituals (breakfast, dressing, chores, etc) are done just before leaving for the school bus?  We have an "electronics free" kitchen and we all (parents included) do not answer any calls, emails, texts during meals as it is time for our family to re-connect and catch up.   

[bravhart1]

It seems pretty clear moms need to be in constant contact with a 13 year old is out of the norm, which is real underlying problem here.

How many days does he go without seeing her at a time? Is that an appropriate amount of time to be away from mom for HIM, not her without contact?

Do you also require contact while he is at moms? Do you get it or is it blocked by mom?

I'm not a fan of this phone intrusion. I would spell out clear boundries around the calls and keep the phone out of his hand until he is old enough to enforce his own boundries with her. He is pretty clearly succumbing to her pressure, understandably.

He can't be expected to withstand her pressure or her subtle digs on you. It must be up to you to protect your relationship with your child. We are on a site for BPD. They have issue around this very thing, don't think it's as simple as when she calls, it's the whole enchilada that is making this hard on everyone. No one likes conflict, but the alternative of doing nothing will not net you the desired outcome.

[whirlpoollife]

First court order was reasonable time to call. My xh called the the kids, and literally stayed on the phone for hours and called at 11 p m . So during a custody hearing , I brought in printed phone records with his calls  highlighted. The custody master wasn't pleased . Then in the new order, xh had restrictions on his calls.  Three times a day, five min in the morning , then ten min. the afternoon, and again later night ... .each child.  Xh didn't miss a minute .

Now S uses his cell to communicate with dad , mostly when he is out . D15 gets his calls at home on landline .  xh wants make up time if he misses one, tries to call after the 10 pm limit.

Never is done in ten minutes. I have to enforce the order.  I have to tell D each call that dads time is up.  I had to unplug the phone because he was inching his way to after 10 pm more and more. She has a cell but said she doesn't always hear it . But she checks for his texts . He is allowed three texts conversations per day.

His calls ,as with your ex, are controling and alienating.   On rare occasion he doesn't call for one of the three times, and what a difference I have ... .I'm connecting with kids while they are with me! 

A court order might be needed as it was for me. If I could do it again I would have fought for not more than one call per day .   And with a time limit.  And ended much earlier than 10 pm. And limits on txt conversations .

[newstempom]

Hi Concord, we are in the same boat with my SS13.  His uBPDbm bought him an iPhone when he was 11 without discussing it with my husband.  She uses it as a way for her to be in control.  She has instructed him to delete text conversations between her and SS13, stating things like "better delete this so 'they' don't see it and punish you." She implies that SS13's dad and I are nosy ogres who just snoop on his phone so we can find something to punish him for.  I don't know how you take this privilege away from a kid when the problems aren't his fault, but she didn't even discuss it with my husband before giving it to SS13.  [uBPDbm only communicates with my H via e-mail, now, and she has blocked both H and me from calling or texting her.  If H asks her the simplest question about the boys she flies off the handle about him being a crappy father (even though he has the kids 70% of the time) and that he's never cared before so why does he care now. (?)  She ends almost every e-mail to my H with "now leave me alone."] Clearly she has positioned us to be the "bad guys" if we ever the phone away from SS13.  But despite my protests, H has never put his foot down regarding the phone and now too much time has passed so taking SS13's phone away would be a punishment.  I suggested we get him a "dumb" phone that we pay for but of COURSE that would be detrimental to SS13 because all his friends have smart phones (further making us look like the bad guys).  Aside--when did it become a requirement that a 13 year old has a smart phone?  My H has put restrictions in place recently: phone stays upstairs in kitchen all night and is off from 8p-6a, although he hasn't been vigilant in holding SS13 to that rule.  SS13 is a very good kid, but I know he still succumbs to deleting text conversations with uBPDbm at her prodding.  Every once in awhile he will change his passcode when he is angry with us.  As the stepmom, I feel hopeless that these issues will ever change.  Having no children of my own, my H and his family disregard my input because they feel not being a mother, I don't know what's best for the children.  Sorry for the fragmented, emotional rant--just feeling sorry for myself right now (and today is my birthday to top it off).  Some days this site all my to keep moving forward.  Thank you all for listening--sorry for hijacking your post, Concord--I feel your pain. :'(

[cc 69]

Hi... well I'm trying with the phone now son tells me when he ask mum can he call dad he's been told my number has been deleted which is her of reacting to me going nc. .so brought two phone one with my contact number for him to call if he want on my part I've said over won't call him it's for him to keep in contact as he as ask... but the phone has not been turn on from the second he went though the door ... she wants nc with me so the logical thing to me is this then if he ill or owt I can be contacted . I won't lie with how things have between me and her since... I'll use the saying cos it did make smile... the new sheriff in town I feel I'm getting push out I no how she works cos she had her d6 calling me dad with in 6 months like I've said I don't believe her story about her dad wanting nowt to do with her now cos I feel she is pushing and pushing for me to walk away from my s5 when ever I've got owt planned she moves the goals so hope she accept him using phone in the future