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Author Topic: Why can't they change back?  (Read 468 times)
CrazyChuck
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« on: May 06, 2016, 09:32:43 AM »

When I met my wife she was fantastic. Everything was perfect. I could get lost driving to a new restaurant without a total meltdown and the night being over before it started. Back during the first year, she probably would have helped me figure out how to get back on track and laugh about it. I could order us a pizza and surprise her with a movie night. And if she showed up with a pizza, it wasn't a total meltdown on how I failed to communicate, and how I do not care about how she is feeling, and the night wouldn't be over before it started. We would just have leftover pizza.

I see so many other people have gone through the same process. The relationship starts out great and then the BPD changes into someone nobody would ever want to have in a relationship.

Why can't they just change back? 
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2016, 11:26:25 AM »

Partly because the person you initially met was just a small fraction of the whole.  You see what is needed to be seen, and only after it's "safe" for them to do so, does the easily upset, emotionally challenged person appear. 

#1 - the pwBPD would have to admit fault at something in order to consciously change back - not going to happen

#2 - the pwBPD has realized that you have hit a point of investment where the rages and outbursts will not make you immediately walk - this is kinda where the r/s changes.  For a non-BPD r/s, this is where you let him see you without make up.  Think of the "never gonna get mad, fun loving person" as make up.  Not an all out lie, but there is a lot more under the surface that you just did not see at first.

#3 - it's just not 100% who they are.  So of course they can't really "change back".  There is nothing to change back into.

To us, it looks like a personality change.  It's not.  You have just been absorbed into the emotional bubble of the pwBPD, and now, all the turmoil that is always going on inside is exposed to you, because in a weird way, they see you as part of them (my own interpretation).  Like this, FI is always fastidious about his appearance, hates how he looks no matter how nice, and really fusses and preens forever before leaving the house.  Hate to be stereotypical, but as the woman, I get dressed faster than he does, no matter how involved my attire or the occasion (unless he has been hogging the bathroom).  But when he is most dysregulating, his hated of how HE looks expands to me, and he starts nagging my clothing, hair and anything else he can, because to him, I am now just an extension OF him.  You have been absorbed by the BPD-blob, and now see all that was beneath the surface, which was there the whole time.

In essence, you are asking an emotionally challenged person to simply stop acting on their emotions and put on a show of not having unregulated emotions.  Once the wall has dropped, it cannot be raised again. 
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drummerboy5
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2016, 11:38:21 AM »

 From what I've experienced and read, they can't keep the facade up forever... PwBPD/npd try really hard in the beginning to mask the real person lying behind the mask. Plus you've got to think in the beginning you are white and have no flaws, as time goes by they start to see you are not perfect. My exBPD/npd told me from week two she had BPD/npd and an alcohol addiction.

She was in therapy for both is what she told me. So I was like ok I can manage because she wasn't that bad. Ha after more weekend went by things slowly got worse, more break ups and her words towards me got stronger and hurt more. Now shes 7 months pregnant and silent/doesn't want me around at all.

I see pwBPD/npd as an empty shell and they mirror the person or people they are around at that time. They change constantly so you never know what's the real person or the mirrored person. just my thoughts?

We never fought in person only over text and phone. She does get verbal but she is more of a quite BPD and cuts. When not on meds and in therapy she disappears, block all contact and when she does come around( once a month or so) a day later she's mean and blocks all contact again Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). I'm starting to like the silence.
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waverider
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2016, 08:35:16 PM »

When you first met you were the new start, the path out of her troubles, the quick fix. She never owned her troubles so she believed you allowed her to leave them behind and off into the sunset with her white knight.

Reality is her troubles are from within, so after the honeymoon i sover and its back to reality, they surface again. Still not wanting to own them you are regarded as somehow having not been the savior she thought you were and so the troubles are your fault. She is less forgiving and understanding.

When stuff goes wrong you get blamed in the first instance, then she is reminded of all the past unresolved issues she has had, which fuels the emotion and they are just piled onto the issue.

"you ruined the night" reminds her of all the ruined nights she has had in her life, she needs to express that emotion so it is just added to the volume of this expression.

Why cant she go back? Because that fantasy has been exposed as just the same reality that has always been around. Your interests are not her interests, she just wanted them to be to fill that hole that her lack of self leaves. That hole can never be filled by others no matter how hard she tries. The lack of self is the damaged foundation of BPD, it causes everything to crumble
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2016, 04:49:42 PM »

Last week I got to experience the wonderful guy I fell in love with and married 10 years ago. On the day of our anniversary, he gave me a very extravagant necklace and reverted to the incredible person who stole my heart.

Note I say "incredible" because it only lasted for a day and when the next day came, he was back to the depressed sad sack who has been sharing my life in recent years. I felt sucker punched because I thought it was possible that he might have "changed back", but alas, it was only for a few hours--just like Cinderella with the glass slippers at the ball before the clock struck midnight and her coach turned into a pumpkin.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2016, 05:06:58 PM »

Last week I got to experience the wonderful guy I fell in love with and married 10 years ago. On the day of our anniversary, he gave me a very extravagant necklace and reverted to the incredible person who stole my heart.

Note I say "incredible" because it only lasted for a day and when the next day came, he was back to the depressed sad sack who has been sharing my life in recent years. I felt sucker punched because I thought it was possible that he might have "changed back", but alas, it was only for a few hours--just like Cinderella with the glass slippers at the ball before the clock struck midnight and her coach turned into a pumpkin.

We never completely stop being deluded by wishful thinking, just for a short while. At least you enjoyed the moment. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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hope2727
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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2016, 05:36:14 PM »

I don't know if this helps but mine told me he only pretended to be what he thought I wanted him to be. That the person I fell in love with was completely made up and that I had to grieve that person like a death. He claimed that his therapist told him that but who knows. I have no idea when what comes out of his mouth is a lie or truth or some combination thereof. So take it with a grain of salt.

I choose to grieve the man I love, forgive the person he truly is and recognize that I do not like the person he chooses to be.

Hope that helps a bit.

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drummerboy5
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2016, 05:42:44 PM »

I don't know if this helps but mine told me he only pretended to be what he thought I wanted him to be. That the person I fell in love with was completely made up and that I had to grieve that person like a death. He claimed that his therapist told him that but who knows. I have no idea when what comes out of his mouth is a lie or truth or some combination thereof. So take it with a grain of salt.

I choose to grieve the man I love, forgive the person he truly is and recognize that I do not like the person he chooses to be.

Hope that helps a bit.

I think you nailed it!
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waverider
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2016, 02:31:06 AM »

I have no idea when what comes out of his mouth is a lie or truth or some combination thereof. So take it with a grain of salt.

Thats weak personal boundaries and values at the heart of this. There is truth, distorted truth and fabrication, and they will wander back and forth across the boundaries between them to use which ever best expresses their message. Its almost like using different pigments to arrive at a best color match. the end result is usually a blend of all three in an almost subconcious way.
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2016, 04:54:28 AM »

During the time when my H was painting me black. ( I guess I wan't Fantasy Woman either) he would on occasion snap into the Man of My Dreams- be amazingly attentive, caring, and then back to being angry or ignoring me. It was very confusing to me.

The Mask gets established sometime in childhood when ( probably due to a dysfunctional parent) the child isn't unconditionally loved and establishes an identity that he/she hopes will get love and acceptance. I was amazed that I was doing this too, even as a young child. Even as an adult my mother uses these words when pleased. Usually because I did something for her. " I told your father you were such a good girl for doing these things" she would say to me- as an adult. Ugh. So I also got the message as a child that I had to be doing things for people to be loved.

My H didn't talk about his FOO and maintained that they were "normal". Well compared to mine, normal is relative maybe. But later, hearing some of the things his parents said to him growing up, I could see where they were critical and hurtful. I think I could begin to forgive that "Mask" when I realized that we do choose people who match us in a way. My "Mask" was not to appear as a false perfect person, but to do things for people in hopes that they would love me- co-dependency.

We choose people who match us emotionally in a way- so we chose the Mask. Maybe not entirely, as it is possible to be fooled at first but perhaps someone else would have walked away once that Mask came off. We didn't- we stayed because we matched. I think it helps to own our part in this and accept that part- as it helps us accept others.

But we don't have to accept being mistreated- and that comes with boundaries. I do think we grieve the loss of the partner we fell in love with, but that part is still a part of the person, just not the whole person.

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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2016, 02:20:52 PM »

We never completely stop being deluded by wishful thinking, just for a short while. At least you enjoyed the moment. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Yes, at times I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football, just as Lucy pulls it away. Are codependents perpetual optimists? Or are we easily satisfied with crumbs?

Even though I now know my husband managed to wear the mask for several years around me, I still hold out hope that some molecule of that false persona might return, and it does now and then--usually to try and impress other people.     

It just now occurred to me that the reason he could continue with the "deception" for so long was that he was working full time and we didn't spend that much time together. When he retired, that was when the mask came off for good.

I choose to grieve the man I love, forgive the person he truly is and recognize that I do not like the person he chooses to be.

This is great! I can so relate. Oddly enough, now that I'm starting to find more acceptance, I'm growing to like him better.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

During the time when my H was painting me black. ( I guess I wan't Fantasy Woman either) he would on occasion snap into the Man of My Dreams- be amazingly attentive, caring, and then back to being angry or ignoring me. It was very confusing to me.

Yes, it's tremendously confusing, the sudden jerk between extreme emotions, seemingly without an obvious external cause. It's enough to give a non emotional whiplash.

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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2016, 10:55:18 AM »

The moment when the nons realize there is actually no way back, because there IS no back, then comes the question and the plan for US to change THEM into something better (whatever that might be). When we uncover this as another illusion, then we just travel from stage to stage and the stages depend on our possibility to develop and accept the reality.

I often asked myself a question why I don´t do something for our mutual benefit in peaceful moments. I discovered that first there was a hope that "good" moments will stay. Then when this hope failed, it was a decision not make unnecessary waves and just live and enjoy as long (or short) it lasts.

It´s a constant trial and error method. It´s exhausting and painful. I am not a masochist, so why I do and live all this?

He causes me mental and emotional pain but I don´t enjoy it and I don´t just wait for it to cease, I fight with lots of falls and risings.

Do we nons live in a constant state of oncoming new deceptions? Or are we just discovering numerous new levels of changes in us, because the change itself is something that we are looking for?
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« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2016, 02:55:29 PM »

... .the person I fell in love with was completely made up and that I had to grieve that person like a death... .

I choose to grieve the man I love, forgive the person he truly is and recognize that I do not like the person he chooses to be.

I can't tell you how inspiring this post was to me.  What your partner's T supposedly told him to relay to you is exactly what my T has said to me:  the love of your life is a construct who doesn't exist except in your memory of who She once was, and briefly; mourn your loss of how things might have been but remember things as they truly were.

My wife died twice in this process:  first as she descended into madness, and again as I've realized exactly who she truly was.  I loathe the person she is; my hope is that she can, with years of therapy, actualize a facsimile of who she portrayed herself to be, because even a fax would be an amazing woman to know
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2016, 02:13:30 PM »

The Mask gets established sometime in childhood when ( probably due to a dysfunctional parent) the child isn't unconditionally loved and establishes an identity that he/she hopes will get love and acceptance. I was amazed that I was doing this too, even as a young child.

I'm just learning about this. My mask, developed as a child was accommodating to avoid being yelled at or shamed. Hmmm... .still at it!

I do think we grieve the loss of the partner we fell in love with, but that part is still a part of the person, just not the whole person.

I agree, at least in the case of my uBPDH, that it wasn't all just a show at the beginning, and that there is definitely a good person in there. (And thankfully, I get to see it fairly often). I remember watching a movie with him in which a character emotionally quoted a poem about the struggle of having both goodness and evil inside him. My H was uncharacteristically moved to tears. I'm sure he related.
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