what's best for s9?

[bus boy]

Am I paranoid or can a BPD/npd mother actually instill fear in a child. I've posted on this topic a few times. I fought hard to have proper access to s9. S9 had been alienated from me and especially my family. S9 mother used fear and threats on me many times. She's an emotionally abusive expert, a covert manuplating genus. S9 has good visits with me, he gets full of fear if he forgets to call his mother. Yesterday he got upset bc he didn't call in the morning when he got up. She is getting s9 to promise to call. The court order says she gets 1 goodnight phone call. I let s9 have his call in private before he goes to bed. S9 spent the afternoon at my sisters with his cousins, s9 was up set when I picked him up, said I was gone to long. My father broke down on the road, he asked if I would pick him up. I gave s9 the option of coming with me or staying with his cousins, he chose cousins. I think s9 was fearful when I picked him up, his mother puts the questions to him and he sometimes lies says I made him go to aunties,. S9 was wanting to go home said he was lonely but I've seen his mother use fear on him when he goes to my family's house. More than once s9 made me promise not to tell his mom he was at my families.  I think a combination of being at my families,  forgetting to call his mother when he got up caused his anxiety at school today. He called from school at noon to go home early early said his tummy was sore, I have to drop s9 at home in the morning to drop off his cloths bag than he continues on to school with me. Than he has a sore tummy. I think it's all fear related. She drills him with questions sometimes he lies, says I went to work and dropped him off at my families.  It all seems so unnatural. Does he drop the bomb on me to ease the pressure off himself? S9 comes to a very safe environment at my house, he never calls between access visits. S9 would full of anxiety yesterday when I picked him up at my sisters, like I abandon him. One time s9 mother stopped in front of my sisters house and asked s9 if he went there for a visit, he was scared but said yes, she started telling s9 to get out and go stay with auntie, s9 told me he was crying and said he wanted to stay with mommy. She kept telling him to go stay at aunties. S9 was begging and crying, saying I want to stay with you mommy, I want to stay with you. This past access visit I didn't see or talk to s9 for 11 days and he still wanted to go home early and today he left school early. I feel something is not right here. I know how much fear she created in me when I went to visit my family, what would make s9 any different?

[bus boy]

I should add that s9 mother is pushing me very hard to cut back on my access, saying it's to hard on s9. I feel she is creating the problem. I am, at last putting up boundries but she is pushing harder. What happens to s9 is nothing to her. I don't want to back away from access but s9 gets caught in the middle. My brain can't go to the dark areas of the soul that are natural to her. She will create the problem and I will be the villain.  She's an evil genus.

[FamilyLaw]

Please, please get your son into therapy. Start out talking to the school counselor and let her know that he's having some problems with the transition between mom's house and dad's house. Get a recommendation for a therapist with at least an MSW or a Ph.D. Say it's for help working on your relationship if you need to.  Or say that it will give DS9 a safe place to process. Say whatever you need to get him a counselor who will listen to him and support him and support your relationship.  Your attorney probably knows the best ones in your area. But do whatever you can for your son and your relationship with him.

[bus boy]

OK.  I talked to s9 teacher yesterday, I called and made an app with a child clinical therapist. The school board has a social worker, I will make an app with her today.

Thank you

[scraps66]

If you read up on alienation and abusive environments, in some cases this can be how an alienating parents manages a child.  If that child sees the BPD/NPD parents abusing the other parent on a regular basis, the child can feel obligated - by the effects of fear - to come around to the BPD/NPD parent's point of view. This can then grow in to the child becoming the alienating parent's "agent."

To answer your question, yes.

[ambivalentmom]

When uBPDex was playing mind games with D13, I took over all responsibility for visitation.  Dad tells her that it is her decision who she wants to spend time with, but she would feel bad when she has to choose.  To take the burden off her plate, I go by the court order and tell her that it wasn't her decision and I'm sorry your dad told you it was.

If the court order states one phone call a night, then stand firm with both S9 and mom.  If mom starts sending hate-mail, save the emails/texts to show a pattern.  If you absolutely can not leave it and must reply once, then state that you are going by the court order and more than one call a day is disrupting your visitation time.  S9 will probably fight with you too, but will be relieved on the inside.  He will be mad because fleas or because if he's mad at you, then mom won't be mad at him.

When she starts hating on you, remember that you are taking the blunt of the hate/manipulation in place of your son.  It's not right for her to treat you/talk badly, but you are more emotionally equipped to handle her than your son is.  As he gets older, you can do more to help prepare him with understanding healthy/unhealthy relationships.

Most importantly, you know S9's mom best.  Take my advice lightly.  Only you know the situation well enough to decide what to do.  I am very glad that you were able to pursue counseling so quickly, it will be very good to have an unbiased professional that can support S9.  I hope you have a good week.   

[Ulysses]

I feel something is not right here.

I think this is an important statement.  If something doesn't feel right, I would encourage you to listen to that feeling.  You're probably right.

... .can a BPD/npd mother actually instill fear in a child.

In my experience, with my exH, the answer is yes.  Sometimes when my children come back to me, they have eyes as big as saucers and they looked terrified of me.  It's creepy.  Therapy has helped keep our relationships going.  It was very, very rocky with S12, especially when I started taking him to therapy.  Once in therapy, it go worse before it got better.  But after 9 months, he seems happier.  We still struggle sometimes, but it's not like before. 

I remember how crazy I felt when I was married and interacting daily with exH.  Now my kids do when they're with him.  I try to keep this in mind when they return to me and are acting hyper, angry, or "weird" (and not in a good way).