First Post: Questioning Why Did I Stay As Well?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This is my first post. Please forgive lack of cohesiveness. I feel like my life just imploded. Just left so of 15 years approx month ago and don't feel like I'm getting any better. I've been reading a lot of articles on this site and am almost positive he has BPD. The verbal abuse angry outbursts devaluation or complete idealization Dr Jekyll mr Hyde completely fits. I feel so lost. I moved out while he was staying away (I was being punished bc my father came to town to visit). His texts have been filled with vitriol telling me he hates me he'll never forgive me prays that God never forgives me and threatening bodily harm to my father. These texts are intermingled with I love you come home I know you won't. I never even conceptualized that he was mentally ill.  I thought he was two people one normal and one who I privately nicknamed psycho.

Please tell me I'm not alone in feeling lost beyond hurt and dumbfounded by his actions. He's threatened police lawyers told me I was a horrible person and the worst woman he's ever been with. Then hours later I'll always love you and I'll never let you go.

I've been placating saying I'm sorry and swallowing words for years bc he did not listen very well. There was no resolution to any conflict he would give me the silent treatment lock himself in guest bedroom or be so mean and nasty that I gave up trying to communicate. Saved the best for last- he's been calling my work 5 or more times a day telling lies to anyone who will listen that I stole from him and trashed his house. Please, someone tell me this gets better. I don't know how to cut off contact nor sure if that is best- but I'm thinking of his well being not my own.  My family doesn't understand considering the names he's been calling me and telling me he hopes I drop dead. I also have some personal items i need to recover and am not sure how to navigate retrieving them. I don't think seeing him is advisable at this point. He keeps saying how angry he is and how I've ruined his life.

On one hand I feel like I was being consumed by depression and losing myself. I was starting to hoard - buy items I didn't need, sleeping too much, and feeling helpless like I could never leave bc he needed me, and I needed him bc he made me feel important, needed. On the other hand ... .I wish I could go back and why? For more abuse and despair? Thank you for reading my post. It feels better to put it into words.



Mod Note: This post split from Why did I stay? Why did you?

[Phoenix41]

This is my first post. Please forgive lack of cohesiveness. I feel like my life just imploded. Just left so of 15 years approx month ago and don't feel like I'm getting any better. I've been reading a lot of articles on this site and am almost positive he has BPD. The verbal abuse angry outbursts devaluation or complete idealization Dr Jekyll mr Hyde completely fits. I feel so lost. I moved out while he was staying away (I was being punished bc my father came to town to visit). His texts have been filled with vitriol telling me he hates me he'll never forgive me prays that God never forgives me and threatening bodily harm to my father. These texts are intermingled with I love you come home I know you won't. I never even conceptualized that he was mentally ill.  I thought he was two people one normal and one who I privately nicknamed psycho.

Please tell me I'm not alone in feeling lost beyond hurt and dumbfounded by his actions. He's threatened police lawyers told me I was a horrible person and the worst woman he's ever been with. Then hours later I'll always love you and I'll never let you go.

I've been placating saying I'm sorry and swallowing words for years bc he did not listen very well. There was no resolution to any conflict he would give me the silent treatment lock himself in guest bedroom or be so mean and nasty that I gave up trying to communicate. Saved the best for last- he's been calling my work 5 or more times a day telling lies to anyone who will listen that I stole from him and trashed his house. Please, someone tell me this gets better. I don't know how to cut off contact nor sure if that is best- but I'm thinking of his well being not my own.  My family doesn't understand considering the names he's been calling me and telling me he hopes I drop dead. I also have some personal items i need to recover and am not sure how to navigate retrieving them. I don't think seeing him is advisable at this point. He keeps saying how angry he is and how I've ruined his life.

On one hand I feel like I was being consumed by depression and losing myself. I was starting to hoard - buy items I didn't need, sleeping too much, and feeling helpless like I could never leave bc he needed me, and I needed him bc he made me feel important, needed. On the other hand ... .I wish I could go back and why? For more abuse and despair? Thank you for reading my post. It feels better to put it into words.



Mod Note: This post split from Why did I stay? Why did you?

[C.Stein]

Hello Phoenix,  

The mixed messages, not knowing if you are coming or going, the love then the hate ... .it really makes you question everything you thought you knew.

I completely understand that feeling of being consumed by depression ... .and anxiety.  It caused me to withdraw into myself and distance myself from my ex.  It is so very hard to let go of the good, to let go of the potential you once saw.  Remember times like those makes it all the more confusing.

You are not alone here.  We have all been where you are right now in one way or another.  You have our support and please feel comfortable sharing your story with us all.  It helps to write it out, helps to make at least some sense of it all.  

[Phoenix41]

Hi C. Stein

Thank you for your reply. I feel less alone with this forum, already. My friends and family don't really understand. Heck, I don't. My father saying to my mother "why isn't she over this already?" Lol.

So true about the questioning. I keep rethinking and hoping this is the time it makes sense. But it doesn't. You cannot make rational sense out of irrational behavior. I keep falling back into codependent ways of thinking- worrying about him, if he's ok, who is calming him down. What is he doing. Putting him first always, despite being called names that would make a sailor blush and told to drop dead repeatedly. I know this will take time to heal from. I have been being quiet and ignoring the pain, minimizing it, trying to pretend. For a long time. As I look back, there were warning signs before we lived together. He bought me a pager and a cellphone within 2 mths of dating. Had outbursts that he would explain as r/t diet medications or past wounds. Told me he loved me soon after we started dating. All red flags, in retrospect.

Leading an inauthentic life will start to affect you psychologically. I would lay there in the tub thinking I can never leave him. I would be at work saying great things about him to coworkers thinking inside that is a lie! Who are you trying to convince. But I think the strongest psychic response was feeling anger over other peoples esp. friends and family's milestones like weddings and graduations And child births. My internal ( not expressed) anger was my understanding that the life I was leading was not healthy, so I was angry at other peoples joy and seeming normal lives. I didn't even feel like I could take him to a friends- afraid he would put me down or say something inappropriate. Didn't feel like I could marry him after 15 yrs. yet didn't feel like I could ever leave him, paradoxically.

I didn't even realize something was really wrong until I left, got some time and space and the bizarre behaviors came so fast and furious that I could no longer explain them away. It also helped that I shared with my family his text messages and some of his behavior and hearing them say it was not stable helped me wake up to the fact that maybe I wasn't to blame for everything after all. He has always blamed me. He accepts no responsibility, doesn't say I'm sorry, lies about promises that he has made, saying I never said that! And the lies. Gives three different excuses when bad behavior is questioned. But then twists it to being my fault, regardless.

Talk about crazy making.

I barely escaped. The whole time I was thinking, I'm coming back. It's ok. The ambivalence I felt about leaving was the hardest. I still had hope. There were three zingers in one day that I just couldn't absorb any more pain. I'll try to write about it soon. It's a long story to tell.

Now I see what I couldn't see when we were living together. He did not love me for me, but rather what I did for him. Here is a prime illustrative example: I would ask him why do you love me? His reply: b/c you take care of me you love me your good to me. I would have to say no, what do you love about ME?

I was isolated - friend and family out of state- so made excuses for his behaviors toward me. For 15 years. It boggles my mind.

[Ahoy]

Yep mind boggling is the correct phrase!

I'm 3 months out of a 4 year relationship. The entire week I have been detaching and feeling like I am taking big steps forward by blocking out thoughts of my ex.

Today? My brain is dredging silly thoughts back up about my ex, mainly of a fantasy lost. So now I'm sitting in the bath, on here again reading and understanding.

I'm not learning anything new, I think I have learnt all there is to know about how this disorder impacted my relationship. But like you wrote, our brains get stuck in little loops trying to make sense of things so reading helps my brain accept the fact that I will never untangle her reality, only to appreciate I am now free.

Read, read and then read some more. Knowledge is power especially in the early stages that most of us are in.

Nobody truly understands a BPD separation aside from those tho have gone through one and trained specialists, so go easy on yourself if you keep getting generic advice, we all 100% understand and empathise with what you are currently going through!

[Phoenix41]

Hi Ahoy

It truly does feel like a family here, surrounded by people who've been through what I have or worse. Congratulations on 3 months out. One day of rumination out of seven sounds like heaven right now. Fantasy lost is such a accurate way to put it isn't it? It was always a fantasy. Never really real. Not a true reciprocal adult relationship.

Prior to my leaving, I had no true understanding that seemingly "normal" people could have a mental illness. Certainly not my partner! He made good money, never acted crazy around anyone but me. Which made it easier to block it out and forget it. No one could challenge my forgetting which was truly not deliberate or his manipulation of my perceptions.  Like, I never said that, you misunderstood me, this is all your fault.

I had a textbook but not a visceral understanding of dysfunction. My ex was high functioning- same job for years- but had two failed marriages, vilified both his exes, cut off contact with his daughter, had hx of accidents and hospitalizations for injuries/accidents that I at times suspected were self inflicted, medical reasons and anxiety attacks- and exhibited what I know now in retrospect to be BPD behavior. Rages. Childish tantrums. He even called me mommy. And, no, we didn't have children together. How did I explain this to myself in the rare moments when I had enough spirit to question his behavior? I thought that he was two different people. I then bizarrely enough had a BPD esque response- I idealized the good guy and devalued or rather minimized the bad. How did I devalue the bad guy? Oh, he wasn't that bad! I caused his anger! Did he really exist? My memory is so bad... .so, I would forget what the bad guy said or did. This was my main defense mechanism. I Eventually disintegrated into a depressed shell of my former self. The only thing I could do was work bathe try to placate/avoid him sleep repeat.

I can remember one pretty horrific memory of him screaming inches from my face " I hate you so much right now."

It is only as I read more and more about this disorder that I finally have a framework to explain my relationship. My reality.  This forum has been a Godsend to me.

He has not texted me for two whole days. I am not initiating any contact as it only results in pages of verbal abuse and accusations. Definitely am seeing a side of him I never saw before. I don't know who this person is. Very disjointed. Like I'm hearing from different people on different days.

Question - has anyone experienced their BPD partner having weird instances of memory loss?

[WoundedBibi]

Question - has anyone experienced their BPD partner having weird instances of memory loss?

Yes and no.

Yes in the sense that he forgot that he never told me about an important part of his life ("as I told you before" and kept talking as if he had previously spoken to me about this. He never had (I was smart enough not to interject and let him think he had and just listen to what he said as it gave me info on how he sees things). But this could be 'just' down to his excessive drinking binges 6 nights a week. Alcohol, brain cells, not best friends.

Other than that no. But that doesn't mean my ex didn't forget what happened, what he did, what I said, and so on; he quickly turned into a mute. During our short relationship he hardly ever spoke to me other than in cryptic one liners usually spoken in anger. It's difficult to know what he remembered as he stopped communicating.

It is a common thing though for pwBPD to experience memory loss. I have been reading some things on boards for pwBPD to get more insight and it is something they describe. Someone went as far as making notes immediately after an argument with his partner as he knew he would not remember later on what happened or who said what.

I think the memory loss is part of dissociating. I did actually see my ex dissociate twice, where he just froze in the stance he was in and his face went completely blank. Both occasions had to do with me and immense fear getting triggered within him about if I would cheat or if I was perhaps more of a sexual being than he anticipated (misogyny mixed with a virgin-whore complex and an immense need to control me).

Dissociating happens under immens stress. Does that make sense to you in the instances you're referring to?

[troisette]

Yes, my ex had occurrences of memory loss. I interpret it as dissociation when under stress.

After we broke up a mutual friend asked him to write out a recipe. He did so that evening, as a creative scroll. But he put another friend's name on it and delivered it to her the following day. Also, it was my birthday just after we broke up, this was marked by him in several ways. But a couple of weeks later he told me he was going away and would therefore miss my birthday. I had to point out that it was two weeks before.

There were a couple of instances when I had informally said I'd be popping by his house and he was surprised when I arrived.

Also, his eyes would blank at other times. I think this might be dissociation too.

Very hard for him.

[C.Stein]

So true about the questioning. I keep rethinking and hoping this is the time it makes sense. But it doesn't. You cannot make rational sense out of irrational behavior.

This is a good realization and one that is very true.  While you can strive to understand the possible motivations behind the behavior, trying to rationalize it within the framework of a "healthy" relationship just leads to frustration and more confusion.  While you are immersed in the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) you can't really see anything clearly.  You know something isn't right but you always seem to find a way to excuse it ... .that is until it breaks you.

Leading an inauthentic life will start to affect you psychologically. I would lay there in the tub thinking I can never leave him.

I understand this.  When my ex broke me I also thought about leaving but I couldn't.  I felt obligated to her and in spite of the things she had done I still loved her even if she had destroyed any sense of emotional security and intimacy.  So I waited and hoped that she could take the initiative and be a loving and caring partner, to accept responsibility for her behavior and make a genuine effort to fix what she had broken.   She couldn't do it, in fact she did the opposite and I withdrew deeper into myself and into depression which was the wrong thing to do ... .for me, my health and for the relationship. 

During the last 6 months of our relationship I thought about my longevity a lot, in part due to heart attack symptoms I kept experiencing as a result of the anxiety but also I think because I just wanted the emotional pain to end and couldn't bring myself to give up on her.  I found myself a few times wishing it all would just end.  Not in a suicide way but in an I'm tired of living kinda way.  It was truly one of the lowest periods of my life ... .and then I hit the lowest part of my life a couple of months after she had throw me away like trash.

Even after almost 10 months since being introduced to the trash bin at times I still feel connected to her, obligated, loyal and committed to her.  It seems as if I am still stuck in the FOG in some ways, but right on the edge.  I can see most everything with clarity now and feel like I am finally going to free myself but the FOG continues to hold onto me, follow me as I try to move forward.  It would seem I have clearly been traumatized by my relationship.  I expect you are probably too and it might help you to do some research on trauma bonds. 

It does get better though, trust in yourself and your ability and strength to get through this. 

The whole time I was thinking, I'm coming back. It's ok. The ambivalence I felt about leaving was the hardest. I still had hope. There were three zingers in one day that I just couldn't absorb any more pain.

I totally get this too.  My ex ended our relationship with a some guilt tripping and blame filled texts.  I never responded to that last text because I just couldn't take it anymore.  I also felt ambivalence and I think I still had some hope in my heart, but it was a false hope.   She never reached out again (because I had been replaced months before I was thrown away) and I was easily deleted from her life, literally like we never shared anything together other than being acquaintances and "friends".

Question - has anyone experienced their BPD partner having weird instances of memory loss?

Absolutely.  Not only seemingly forgetting some of the really hurtful things she had said and done but revision of history as well.  Not really weird as this I believe is a coping mechanism so she could avoid feeling shame and guilt.  It was also used so she could avoid taking responsibility for her hurtful and destructive behavior.

[Phoenix41]

Thank you c stein wounded bibi and troisette for your replies to my posts.

Short response for now, will post more later. I need to figure out how to insert quotes from your posts, until then, I'll just say the following thank yous.

To c stein- thank you for your sharing the same experience of your partner forgetting horrible things said and also the revision of history. It felt so reassuring that you understood what I was saying and had experienced similar thoughts, feelings, circumstances.

To wounded bibi- thank you for sharing the information from the BPD board that they self report forgetting arguments, needing to take notes. I started to take notes myself, then when I would read them, think that they didn't happen! The eyes blanking. I think I experienced this when I would try to unravel a confused story (lie) he was telling. He would get angry but also kind of momentarily freeze. Then I would get blamed for something or he would stomp away.

To troisette- thank you for sharing the memory loss episodes that you experienced. Wow. I'm not sure if I ever saw him dissociate under stress. I think I did, as I stated above. Not until we broke up- now there seems to be a real lack of cohesion in his self presentation. His behavior is bizarre. His texts read like they are from a couple different people. Only one of them is nice. Surprise! Lol.

Here are some of the weird memory loss experiences that I recall. They are mostly mundane. And also of note- my family recently shared with me that he alwAys had 2-3 different stories for something. And stupid stuff, like purchase costs or why he was working overtime.

A couple of weeks ago I brought him tea while he was soaking in the tub. I thought he seemed a little off, like goofy almost, as his voice and manner were off. Not quite able to give you a clear example. I thought- is he drinking- he did that a lot and hid it and lied about it. He has type 2 diabetes so the beer affected him terribly- slurred speech, balance, temper, headache, almost instantaneous sleep. So, a lot of odd behaviors I attributed to alcohol consumption and sugar irregularities.

He asked for tea, I brought it. The next day he said- why is there a teacup in the tub? I said you asked for it. He was like oh. Obviously no recall.

We are sitting outside. He jumps up saying who left the propane burners on on the grill? I never do that! Now mind you, I don't even know how to use the grill. He turns off both burners and sits down. He had to have left it on the night before when he cooked. I don't even say anything bc I have learned not to challenge him.

Vaguer memories- items broken in the house that he claimed to know nothing about. It's only us who lived there so unless it was the house ghost, who else could it have been? Not remembering arguments, promises, hateful words that he had said.

His memory loss frightened me.

[Turkish]

Dissociation can indeed be frightening. In a lot of cases, it may be related to brain structure, the inability to form coherent memories. For the personality disorder overall, a fragmented Self may have trouble forming a coherent reality. In a lot of cases, people interpret this as "gaslighting" but that refers to the deliberate machinations of a sociopath.

I witnessed an odd incident with my BPD mother before she left my house (I rescued her from a certain winter death and she lived with me and my kids for four months before she basically ran away).

She confronted me in my kitchen with her calendar. She made reference to her property in the mountains,  not remembering it well. I said that we had visited it 6 weeks previously. She said, "no, I haven't lived there in 15 years." I repeated the time line. I witnessed her pupils dialate, and I thought she would start crying. It looked to me like a software reset. Then she came back from wherever she was mentally and said, "you're right." It was creepy.

My Ex didn't remember some significant things in our r/s. Dissociation can be an unconscious defense mechanism for pwBPD. The pathology can run to the core.

BPD BEHAVIORS:Dissociation and Dysphoria

[Phoenix41]

Thank you Turkish. Reading those posts about dissociation was helpful. Saying that the pathology can run to the core was illuminating to me.

The core of who they are as a person. Which is essentially unstable and due to the instability cannot formulate memories or process reality like a nonBPD.

I stay up at night reading these posts and feel so thankful for this board.

I think I need therapy to get through this. 15 years of trauma doesn't magically erase.

My ex is still texting, though with less frequency. It has been so hard to communicate with him since the split. It's like he tricks me with a normal text like hi, thinking of you. Take care of yourself. I'll respond in kind, then his next text is off the wall, hurtful, threatens bodily harm to my father, tells me I destroyed the love in our home and he needs to beat up my father to handle the hurt and pain in his heart. That he hopes to find someone that loves our home like he does. That he'll pick a real woman next time. I realize that I am so hopeful for him to respond to me in a loving fashion that I ignore all evidence to the contrary. The good times are so hard to let go off. I've been minimizing the bad times for years. I still don't fully understand why.

This is where I am at one month and 3 days out: I understand intellectually what occurred. Emotionally, I do not. I feel attached to him. I cared for him for so long it's as if I'm trying to program my brain to not do its most basic daily task. All the intellectual understanding in the world does not remove the pain, the attachment, the desire for the good times, the wish for things to be different. For him to be different. Though I know I can't go back- he will never see me the same- I still regret that I left. Feel terrible when he texts me all the pain I caused him. It's like the pain he caused me is not even on the radar. It's sad that I value him and his pain more than I value myself.

Time and distance. I am hopeful that I find some clarity soon.

[C.Stein]

All the intellectual understanding in the world does not remove the pain, the attachment, the desire for the good times, the wish for things to be different. For him to be different. Though I know I can't go back- he will never see me the same- I still regret that I left.

I can completely relate with this.  I can understand the probable reasons my ex behaves and does the things she does, but it doesn't help with the pain or any of the other things you mentioned.  I can even understand somewhat why I fee the way I do but again, not much help there either.  Perhaps with time we will both have a better understanding of where our own emotions originate from and find a way to let go.      

[Phoenix41]

I had a thought C Stein.

Emotions. The dysregation that we experienced with our BPD partners affected our own ability to fully access our own emotions. As we were subsumed by a caregiver role, in the FOG, and trying not to trigger rages, our emotions were re-programmed. The new programming was to focus on their needs as a way to maintain homeostasis in the r/s. To have peace. To have love.

We are essentially now having to learn to re/ program, to change our emotional focus- re-focus to ourselves. This is the first and perhaps hugest hurdle. Only then, when we put ourselves as primary can we help ourselves to heal from all the wounds.

I keep telling myself this. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Real love is unconditional. This is not what I had. I kept finding excuses to accept his conditional love, punishments and desertions, and his treating me like garbage. But someone who truly loves you cherishes you. Their love is not conditional to you agreeing with them, meeting their needs. They love you for YOU. Not what you do for them.

[Thread]

I am sorry you are going through this and YOU ARE NOT ALONE!

I am right were you are can't motivate myself to get out of bed only to snack on some things because I'm so hungry I'm uncomfortable. It's a process. Be kind to yourself. If you need to get things I have read in the lessons on then detaching page that you need to take a stranger because they won't react in front of them easily. It's been advised not to take a family member or someone they know. When I separated the first time from my bod husband I took my cousin, not smart he was acting horrible.

I'm in the process of separating again, I partially filed for divorce and have to pay one more fee to let the process go through. My advice get s good therapist. Find something that makes you tick to get you out of bed (I feel like a hypocrite because my one thing isn't working and I'm in the same struggle) and lastly please don't take him back a second time. The promises of change and acceptance of responsibility is so validating and hopeful. He has done intense therapy and it has not worked. I'm emotionally abused. And now like the lessons say on this page, I'm in way deeper than before and it's only harder to get out of it than it was before.

My thoughts are with you! You're not alone.

[Ahoy]

I had a thought C Stein.

Emotions. The dysregation that we experienced with our BPD partners affected our own ability to fully access our own emotions. As we were subsumed by a caregiver role, in the FOG, and trying not to trigger rages, our emotions were re-programmed. The new programming was to focus on their needs as a way to maintain homeostasis in the r/s. To have peace. To have love.

We are essentially now having to learn to re/ program, to change our emotional focus- re-focus to ourselves. This is the first and perhaps hugest hurdle. Only then, when we put ourselves as primary can we help ourselves to heal from all the wounds.

I keep telling myself this. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Real love is unconditional. This is not what I had. I kept finding excuses to accept his conditional love, punishments and desertions, and his treating me like garbage. But someone who truly loves you cherishes you. Their love is not conditional to you agreeing with them, meeting their needs. They love you for YOU. Not what you do for them.

I think parental love is unconditional. Unconditional love in a relationship is what a BPD wants, however for a healthy relationship this is not a good thing.

I know my love is conditional. It comes with the conditions that my partner will be faithful and honest (for starters) and whole host of other, reasonable conditions.

A BPD receiving unconditional love in a relationship gives them free reign to lie/cheat/manipulate without consequence.

[C.Stein]

Emotions. The dysregation that we experienced with our BPD partners affected our own ability to fully access our own emotions. As we were subsumed by a caregiver role, in the FOG, and trying not to trigger rages, our emotions were re-programmed. The new programming was to focus on their needs as a way to maintain homeostasis in the r/s. To have peace. To have love.

We are essentially now having to learn to re/ program, to change our emotional focus- re-focus to ourselves. This is the first and perhaps hugest hurdle. Only then, when we put ourselves as primary can we help ourselves to heal from all the wounds.

My relationship played out a bit differently but I agree on the point of conditioning.  We were conditioned by our respective borderlines to sideline our own emotions and focus on theirs.  It is hard to overcome this conditioning which is one reason why the pain is so bad and why the end is so devastating to us.

I keep telling myself this. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Real love is unconditional. This is not what I had. I kept finding excuses to accept his conditional love, punishments and desertions, and his treating me like garbage. But someone who truly loves you cherishes you. Their love is not conditional to you agreeing with them, meeting their needs. They love you for YOU. Not what you do for them.

I did love my ex essentially unconditionally.  My only condition was that she conduct herself with integrity and treat me with love, caring, honesty and respect.  These are not unreasonable conditions but they are still conditions.

Unconditional love, if it even really exists, is one where there is nothing that your loved one can do that won't be forgiven.   Outside of a parent-young child dynamic that type of love can lead to abuse.  I would suspect that even within a parent-child dynamic it could potentially lead to abuse and emotional damage for the parent.  

My ex was very much like this, with the child like expectation there was nothing she could do wrong that shouldn't be immediately forgiven and forgotten.  For her to believe this and more importantly for me to play this role for the majority of our relationship, released her from any accountability for her actions and any obligation (in her mind) to repair (or even see) any damage that was done.  Without accountability and a concerted effort to set right the wrongs you get the continued perpetration of the abusive cycle.  The emotional wounds to you get deeper and deeper until you finally break.

[Phoenix41]

I think parental love is unconditional. Unconditional love in a relationship is what a BPD wants, however for a healthy relationship this is not a good thing.

I know my love is conditional. It comes with the conditions that my partner will be faithful and honest (for starters) and whole host of other, reasonable conditions.

A BPD receiving unconditional love in a relationship gives them free reign to lie/cheat/manipulate without consequence.

Ahoy- thank you for your response. I think I was expecting some unconditional love from my partner bc I had done nothing wrong ( to trigger a rage, for example) So, the conditions that he imposed to receive love were, if he did wrong, it was my fault.

Actually- almost everything was my fault. On the rare occasions he accepted that an argument was his fault and he would say I'm sorry, I never truly felt that he was sorry or cared for my pain. It was like he knew he had to say he was sorry to get one of his needs met, like sex. It's embarrassing to write that here. And once I was wrong, he could punish me verbally abuse me ignore me. So, when I was articulating unconditional love - in my mind- if was without the conditions he placed on his love. I had to just accept and never fight back-then everything was roses.

You are correct - I gave him free reign. But it was naïveté. I didn't know what I know now- that I should have walked away, set more boundaries, not continued to accept and accept and accept  placate, placate, placate. I know I allowed his behavior to continue -and worsen- bc I didn't fight back. I lost myself. I tried to give him unconditional love( embracing the fairytale) and it has brought me here, to a place where I don't know who I am anymore.

Thank you for helping me to understand. A healthy relationship should have conditions. I hope to have more self esteem and practice that in the future.

I did love my ex essentially unconditionally.  My only condition was that she conduct herself with integrity and treat me with love, caring, honesty and respect.  These are not unreasonable conditions but they are still conditions.

Unconditional love, if it even really exists, is one where there is nothing that your loved one can do that won't be forgiven.   Outside of a parent-young child dynamic that type of love can lead to abuse.  I would suspect that even within a parent-child dynamic it could potentially lead to abuse and emotional damage for the parent. 

My ex was very much like this, with the child like expectation there was nothing she could do wrong that shouldn't be immediately forgiven and forgotten.  For her to believe this and more importantly for me to play this role for the majority of our relationship, released her from any accountability for her actions and any obligation (in her mind) to repair (or even see) any damage that was done.  Without accountability and a concerted effort to set right the wrongs you get the continued perpetration of the abusive cycle.  The emotional wounds to you get deeper and deeper until you finally break.

Thank you for this. I was in a cycle. I am starting to understand. Very enlightening for me to read about how that dynamic and the unconditional love and acceptance I gave was a breeding ground for abuse to occur. He still perpetuates the cycle and I realize I am allowing it! His texts are abusive and I still respond! He goes from drop dead you have done me wrong to hey I thought you'd like to see a picture of this house and I'm thinking of you always. So, I ignore the hate filled text and respond to the nice one!

I am sorry you are going through this and YOU ARE NOT ALONE!

I am right were you are can't motivate myself to get out of bed only to snack on some things because I'm so hungry I'm uncomfortable. It's a process. Be kind to yourself. If you need to get things I have read in the lessons on then detaching page that you need to take a stranger because they won't react in front of them easily. It's been advised not to take a family member or someone they know. When I separated the first time from my bod husband I took my cousin, not smart he was acting horrible.

I'm in the process of separating again, I partially filed for divorce and have to pay one more fee to let the process go through. My advice get s good therapist. Find something that makes you tick to get you out of bed (I feel like a hypocrite because my one thing isn't working and I'm in the same struggle) and lastly please don't take him back a second time. The promises of change and acceptance of responsibility is so validating and hopeful. He has done intense therapy and it has not worked. I'm emotionally abused. And now like the lessons say on this page, I'm in way deeper than before and it's only harder to get out of it than it was before.

My thoughts are with you! You're not alone.

Hanging- you are an angel. Your emotional support was so needed. You have no idea. I was sobbing on the kitchen floor yesterday. Today I got out of bed bc I thought of what you wrote. I still don't have a reason to get up. But I'm trying to find something. And thank you for saying don't go back to him. That's what keeps going through my mind like an insidious snake. Go back. End this pain.

Love to all of you. Thank you.

[C.Stein]

Go back. End this pain.

Oh how I understand this feeling ... .anything to end the pain.  Yet we have to realize going back won't end the pain, it will just allow it to continue in a more subtle but significantly more damaging way.  Removing yourself from the fire allows you to see (eventually) how deeply you were getting burned.  As the burning continues your senses become dull, you don't feel the pain like you should until you become critical.

Isn't that how a relationship with a pwBPD really is?  It becomes a daily battle to manage the burns and to find a way to stay out of the fire, or at least minimize the burns.  I have no doubt it can be achieved with some success but not without significant work by the pwBPD and an immense amount of understanding, patience and emotional resilience from their partner.  Unfortunately achieving this seems to be the exception to the rule.

[Phoenix41]

C stein - thank you for your reply.

I wish I could stop romanticizing the good times and minimizing the bad. Do you do that?

My mother told me to try this- when I think of a good memory( there are a lot of them)- balance it with a bad one. My brain is fighting that.

I want to only think of the good. Block out the bad. Just like I did when I was with him.

I guess it will take time.

I still can't imagine a life without him. I wish I could have him in my life in some way.

Now there's a pipe dream.     

[C.Stein]

I wish I could stop romanticizing the good times and minimizing the bad. Do you do that?

Yes, all the time to this day.  Over time I have found myself not minimizing the bad as much but I still struggle with this because I haven't completely accepted the "dark side" (as she puts it) of my ex.   I spent so much energy and time convincing myself that she could control her dark side, that I could believe in the good within her and I could trust her.  I conditioned myself, and allowed her to condition me, to overlook the bad and believe in the good.  It wasn't all that hard to believe this either because the really bad stuff wasn't very frequent.  

I want to only think of the good. Block out the bad. Just like I did when I was with him.

I don't want to only think bad of her because she can be a truly amazing person.  Who she is outside of intimate relationships is everything I could ever want and need in a partner.  This side of her is who I fell in love with, the side who is a generous, caring, affectionate, loving, supportive, compassionate and generally positive person.  This person brought joy into my heart and truly enriched my life.  The cognitive dissonance between that person and the person who deceived/lied to me, emotionally manipulated me and threw me away like trash months after she had replaced me with no apparent guilt or remorse has ripped me apart at my core.

That said, as much as I want to only remember the good I can't allow myself to forget the bad either.  Her dark side, no matter how much she tries to hide it from herself and others, always wins the battle, especially when it is most important.  I saw the dark side right from the beginning but I chose to believe and trust in her because that is who I am.  I don't believe in condemning people for their past mistakes, especially when that person "seems" self-aware and has learned from past mistakes and sincerely wants to change.  

Thing is, all the words in the world doesn't amount to anything if the actions are there to support them and they weren't.  I kept giving her the benefit of the doubt, I kept convincing myself to believe in her and trust her.  Even now I find myself at times feeling this way even though she has demonstrated in every conceivable way she is not a honest or trustworthy person within intimate relationships.  I think the depth of the love I felt(feel) for her and how I convinced myself to believe and trust in her is what has caused the most damage to me.   I not only feel deeply betrayed by her but also by myself.  By continuing to believe and trust in her even when the signs were there that I shouldn't I betrayed and compromised my own core self.  This has damaged me like no other relationship I have ever been in and this is certainly not the first time I have been deeply hurt and betrayed by a romantic partner.

I guess it will take time.

It will take time and it will get better.  We both have to allow ourselves time to pick up the pieces of our shattered self.  We ARE NOT Humpty Dumpty ... .we CAN put ourselves back together again.  I believe that and it is a belief I can trust!

I still can't imagine a life without him. I wish I could have him in my life in some way.

I know, I want the dream, the potential life I saw with her so much it hurts ... .but it was a fantasy right from the beginning.  It could never be realized because a healthy and mutually beneficial relationship with her will never be possible.   :'(

[once removed]

My mother told me to try this- when I think of a good memory( there are a lot of them)- balance it with a bad one. My brain is fighting that.

I want to only think of the good. Block out the bad. Just like I did when I was with him.

I guess it will take time.

my mother suggested the same thing to me too . she suggested i put it in writing though, because i had not consciously forgotten the bad memories but focusing on them seemed to have no effect - my ex was suddenly on a pedestal.

writing it out was powerful, a huge milestone for me. it turned into, essentially, a letter to myself. i think if you really get in that zone, it has a powerful effect in terms of it sinking in.

[C.Stein]

My mother told me to try this- when I think of a good memory( there are a lot of them)- balance it with a bad one. My brain is fighting that.

I want to only think of the good. Block out the bad. Just like I did when I was with him.

I guess it will take time.

my mother suggested the same thing to me too . she suggested i put it in writing though, because i had not consciously forgotten the bad memories but focusing on them seemed to have no effect - my ex was suddenly on a pedestal.

writing it out was powerful, a huge milestone for me. it turned into, essentially, a letter to myself. i think if you really get in that zone, it has a powerful effect in terms of it sinking in.

I agree totally.  I have a letter I have been writing since I discovered the BPD possibility (8 months now).  It details all the BPD traits and behavior that I can remember and how they impacted me emotionally.   It is an ever evolving document that helps keep me grounded in reality and I read it and add to it when I feel myself slipping.  It has also helped me learn about myself which will aid in my own personal growth and healing.