Meh...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hey guys, it's been some time since I've been active here, but I kinda just wanted to vent a few things and get my head straight.

My ex broke up with me a little over a year ago. This was after a year of some pretty subtle and affecting emotional abuse, and a 2.5 year relationship that took us around the world together. We're still in touch, 'friends' I suppose. In my head I understand her disorder and what it does to her. It's kind of a shame—she really does have the capacity to be a kind, loving person. Everything feels one-sided to me though... .and I'm just realizing now that this isn't what I want in my friendships. I've tried, of course, to make everything feel normal for myself, but that's just not how it is. It's not a two-way street there, and predictably so. I guess I just never wanted to accept that. The relationship gave me too big of a glimpse of what it was like to be close to her... .

I'm traveling right now, staying with old friends and have a lot of distance from home—an ocean's worth. It feels nice, and I kind of am at the point where I really want to live a different kind of life. I can't keep doing the same things and expect different results. It's not working. And really, I think it all boils down to keeping myself at an arms length from my ex. Really, I just don't know if I can do the friends thing with her anymore. It's too hard, and I get stuck ruminating at times and forget about doing things to progress myself.

So, that's it. I think I'm gonna start taking some steps away from her. It's not really what I *want*, but I think its the best thing to do for myself.

Anyways! Hope everyone is doing well! 

[valet]

Hey guys, it's been some time since I've been active here, but I kinda just wanted to vent a few things and get my head straight.

My ex broke up with me a little over a year ago. This was after a year of some pretty subtle and affecting emotional abuse, and a 2.5 year relationship that took us around the world together. We're still in touch, 'friends' I suppose. In my head I understand her disorder and what it does to her. It's kind of a shame—she really does have the capacity to be a kind, loving person. Everything feels one-sided to me though... .and I'm just realizing now that this isn't what I want in my friendships. I've tried, of course, to make everything feel normal for myself, but that's just not how it is. It's not a two-way street there, and predictably so. I guess I just never wanted to accept that. The relationship gave me too big of a glimpse of what it was like to be close to her... .

I'm traveling right now, staying with old friends and have a lot of distance from home—an ocean's worth. It feels nice, and I kind of am at the point where I really want to live a different kind of life. I can't keep doing the same things and expect different results. It's not working. And really, I think it all boils down to keeping myself at an arms length from my ex. Really, I just don't know if I can do the friends thing with her anymore. It's too hard, and I get stuck ruminating at times and forget about doing things to progress myself.

So, that's it. I think I'm gonna start taking some steps away from her. It's not really what I *want*, but I think its the best thing to do for myself.

Anyways! Hope everyone is doing well! 

[jhkbuzz]

My ex wanted to be friends after we broke up, and from the very limited contact we've had, I suspect she still wants that. But as I viewed our r/s and how one-sided it was, I knew it would be a kind of a death for me to continue in any kind of relationship - even a friendship. I realized that my job was to take care of myself - so I've remained no contact. It sounds like you're on a path to self care - that's good. You can detach with love - love for yourself, which I suspect has been lacking in this "friendship."

[Ahoy]

Only 2 posts but a heck of a lot of wisdom in here already I think.

Now I'm no expert by any means but I agree with a comment I read earlier today that a friendship has a lot of the aspects of a relationship.

How the heck can you have a meaningful 'friendship' with a person thinks about themselves first (if anyone else at all) and has a seriously limited capacity for empathy.

Sadly I've read enough posts here to understand friendship after a relationship usually involves being part of the drama triangle when things are not going well with the replacement/current partner.

My friends? I have a handful of them. They 100% have my back in any situation. I have theirs too. If one needed me, I would fly interstate tomorrow to give them a chop out. My Ex? she has already proven time and time again that she 'helps' if that falls in line with her interests OR she can show the world what a wonderful caring person she is... .yuck.

it's a terrible realization Valet but possibly one that is for the best in the long run.

[Invictus01]

I think many people find out that the whole friendship thing after one of these relationship just doesn't work. You start paying attention to some things and see that this particular friendship becomes so effing one sided, it's not something you want. Of course, if you were cool and centered during the relationship itself and could look at things rationally without all those yucky feelings involved you'd probably see that your relationship was equally one sided. Right after my dating experience blew up, my best buddy told me "That selfish self-centered b$@ch doesn't deserve your time" I was blown away. Selfish? Self-Centered? What does he mean? And then after months of NC when I was in a little bit better place mentally and tried to stay in touch with her, I saw what my buddy meant by selfish and self centered... .and I didn't wanna have anything to do with it.

The reality is that this is why many PD individuals end up without friends. People just walk away because they don't wanna deal with all this selfishness. Life is too short. This is why I am in a solid distant acquaintance status with my ex. When she pops up from time to time, we catch up on our lives. That's about it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Hadlee]

I suppose in a way I have been fortunate enough to have had a romantic relationship with a pwBPD/NPD and a friendship with a pwBPD.  What I can tell you from my experience, there was not much difference between the two relationships, apart from sex, which obviously wasn't part of the equation with the friend.

My experience with my former friend was, I believe, that she thought in her own mind WE WERE in a relationship.  I was her possession.  As others have stated, it was very one sided, which I only realized towards the end.

In order for me to be happy and healthy I need to not have ANY person in my life that has a personality disorder, not even one that I am LC with.  It's not healthy for me, and quite frankly, I don't want someone in my life that drags me down.

What I have learnt from my experiences is that I owe it to myself to look after ME and do what's best for ME.  No more "people pleaser" from me, that much I can guarantee

Good work, valet

[valet]

LC I can handle. I was in an incidental LC situation with her and felt great, like there could be some sort of real friendship salvaged from the broken relationship. But as I try to make it that, she's showing me that she just doesn't have the capacity to maintain any kind of mutual friendship that doesn't benefit her in an inordinate and unbalanced way.

I really don't want to believe that this is who she is, but yeah... .It kind of is.

Supposedly she's been in therapy for a few months now. I think that's really good and am proud of her, but I didn't realize that it would be so ineffective thus far in teaching her how to better manage her social relationships. In short, I thought she had changed, but what I think happened is that I was just hoping she would in terms of how I want things to be. I guess that's just the nature of the disorder though, and also reveals a big chunk of my own unhealthy thinking.

How the heck can you have a meaningful 'friendship' with a person thinks about themselves first (if anyone else at all) and has a seriously limited capacity for empathy...

This is a good question. I think that a lot of negativity about this specific subject floats around these boards quite a bit. When I was really deep into figuring more out about the disorder and read people saying things along these lines my reaction was something like, 'Well, that seems like an awfully immature assumption for people that just aren't willing to do the work and fully accept their pwBPD.' I still think that's true, but what I didn't fully consider was that, yes, it is super difficult, and for the most part only feeds into the pre-existing dynamic. I have one or two other friends that I would consider to have borderline traits, and I really enjoy their company when I have it, but I would never in a million years consider beginning a romantic relationship with them. It would be a nightmare.

That said, with my ex it's one of those things where you can't go back. My initial boundaries weren't firm enough and the ship already sank. I just don't know if there is anything valuable for me to try and recover other than just being nice when I see her around town. For now, yeah, I really want to make a concentrated effort not to go out of my way to see her. I'm fine if she would ever show reciprocity there, but I'm not willing to be the one that arranges everything from now on. I don't need any further reasons to question my judgements, and I'm making them for myself... .This needs to stop.

[Hadlee]

LC I can handle. I was in an incidental LC situation with her and felt great, like there could be some sort of real friendship salvaged from the broken relationship. But as I try to make it that, she's showing me that she just doesn't have the capacity to maintain any kind of mutual friendship that doesn't benefit her in an inordinate and unbalanced way.

Black & white thinking.  It's all or nothing.  That was certainly the case for me.  Mine couldn't cope with LC.

[fromheeltoheal]

I was in an incidental LC situation with her and felt great, like there could be some sort of real friendship salvaged from the broken relationship. But as I try to make it that, she's showing me that she just doesn't have the capacity to maintain any kind of mutual friendship that doesn't benefit her in an inordinate and unbalanced way.

The way I see it, if we could be friends we'd still be together.  A true friendship plus a sexual spark are the necessary ingredients for a great relationship; the spark was certainly there, at least initially, too fast really, and I was hoping a great friendship would develop with time too, because those things take time.  Never did.  And add to that the fact the her she showed me was a fiction, which I ran with to create a fantasy, and true friendship was nowhere to be found.  So it would have been impossible to 'salvage' something that was never there to begin with, and had it been, I wouldn't have left her.  So what's the point now?  There isn't one.

[valet]

This is kind of a side note, but it also just struck me that maybe I didn't give the clearest picture of things. At risk of rationalizing, it does look like she is improving a bit. I don't know how deep that runs emotionally—whether if it all counts—and I guess I'm a little hurt that I am always the one that has to initiate any sort of interaction. I haven't communicated that clearly though, and it really ticks me off! Am I still walking on eggshells? Is a conversation worth it? This obviously isn't the correct board for a discussion like this, but the responses thus far have mostly been fairly insightful and honest, so I'll leave it up to you guys.

Strangely, when I see her out or something I'm just not attracted to her. She comes off as kind of annoying and has the capacity to seem childlike, which isn't uncommon, but it makes it very difficult to communicate. We just don't have great conversations unless I'm pulling most of the weight. That is my perception of things, but an observation nonetheless. In a nutshell, I really just don't feel like I want or need any sort of romantic relationship with her—it's something that runs deeper than that, and I'm not sure where to go from that point even while in therapy.

So I'm getting lost in my own head and not really being able to put a finger on it. If I'm not attracted to this person, then how could it be her that's stirring things up in my brain? That is the difficult part for me to comprehend. But still, I attribute it to her on a micro level even full well knowing that it's mostly my own baggage coming into play. And I'm wondering, mainly, whose line is it anyway?

[Mars22]

It may be stirring up your brain because you are a human being who has compassion for other people. Especially those people who need emotional support. Perhaps? Add in the fact that you once loved this girl deeply and, I'd say your having a normal reaction.

But, any kind of Friendship? ... possible but, unlikely with these kind of people that have these disorders. Granted, these are my defense mechanisms saying that now. But, what resonated with me in this post was the fact that, yes - these relationships always seem one-sided. I catered wholly on all levels so much to her every need and was ultimately blamed for our relationships failure. Of course i was, I did all the work! So I ask you — what does one gain from a one-sided friendship? What type of expectations are there again?

In order for me to accept any kind of 'act of friendship' from my uBPDxgf I'd have to hear from her that she has gained an awareness of who she really is and what she did to me. And, would like to also hear how she would change herself for the better given her new awareness. Is this even possible? It would require a long road of therapy I presume. And I would both commended and support her for actually getting help. I never had ill intent for her during our relationship so, I would surely never turn my back on her now for finally accepting who she is.

However, most healthy minded people, those in these forums tend to continue to evolve through their lives, refine and adjust and become better people naturally. So with that in mind, what does one tend to learn from unhealthy people but unhealthy habits? I would think that the deciphering needed to be her 'new friend'  would become exhausting again and any help you may try to give her [like you probably did when in the relationship] would potentially get confusing and she could fall back into her old behaviors. 

Honestly, if my uBPDxgf came back to me to apologize and tell me she was getting help now, I would support her but would need to see substantial progress along the way. Actions speak louder? Otherwise, a friendship of any kind would put us back into the same arrangement we had before. A one-sided one. And, unless you have the constitution to really be a part of her life and her disordered thinking habits, to watch her progress and watch her grow and learn [much like child] ... .these relationships are best dealt with from a distance.

It sounds like you realize this. Keep up the good work.

[valet]

Yes, I see where you're coming from MARS.

I would say that I recently also really haven't been seeking the support I need to even be capable of being her friend, not to mention my other responsibilities, which are probably too big for myself and perhaps most other people to handle. Hence the vacation. It feels so good to just be able to do NOTHING for a change!

More often than not I don't even realize that I need to talk about these things with people that are willing to listen. It's easy to forget the circumstances of my feelings, and even easier not to know what my options are as far as dealing with them are concerned. This is something that I have gotten much better at over the last year or so, but there still is work to do.

Already, however, after making this thread, I feel like a big burden has been lifted off of my shoulders. Thanks for your words everyone.

However, most healthy minded people, those in these forums tend to continue to evolve through their lives, refine and adjust and become better people naturally. So with that in mind, what does one tend to learn from unhealthy people but unhealthy habits? I would think that the deciphering needed to be her 'new friend'  would become exhausting again and any help you may try to give her [like you probably did when in the relationship] would potentially get confusing and she could fall back into her old behaviors.  

Honestly, if my uBPDxgf came back to me to apologize and tell me she was getting help now, I would support her but would need to see substantial progress along the way. Actions speak louder? Otherwise, a friendship of any kind would put us back into the same arrangement we had before. A one-sided one. And, unless you have the constitution to really be a part of her life and her disordered thinking habits, to watch her progress and watch her grow and learn [much like child] ... .these relationships are best dealt with from a distance.

It sounds like you realize this. Keep up the good work.

I don't recall actively trying to help her during the relationship, although I'm sure there was a major subconscious instinct that I couldn't have been aware of at the time. I do, however, remember that about 1.5 years in, there was no amount of support I could give—so I let her handle her feelings on her own. My words slowly had less and less of an effect on her over time. As for why I stayed in the relationship, that is an all together more complicated idea that I don't think I've managed to really see the big picture of.

I want to ask a question though. Would you expect her, in this hypothetical scenario, to randomly reach out to you and apologize for something that had happened so long ago? I don't think that that's realistic, and I think that there's a certain amount of communicating and work that it takes on our behalf to get our emotions sorted out—if one were to really try to be a supportive friend for a pwBPD working toward recovery. Even children can give back—they do quite frequently—, but we do have to try our best to recognize them as such and not have hidden ulterior motives buried in the back of our minds.

[Mars22]

I can't speak for you or anybody else but, I can clearly think back to ALL my old relationships and with a very clear distinction know where i was in my life at time emotionally. More importantly, i can recall details of both my actions and words and why I expressed who was at that time. And while maybe those actions were 'wrong', they were very valid for me at time. So, to answer your questions. — Would i "expect an apology from my ex with BPD traits... given things that happened so long ago?"    Absolutely not.

As, she was never able to express herself with honest feelings when we were together. I would be astonished if she was able to achieve such a major breakthrough enough to call and admit and confront me about "us" after the fact... .so many years later.

Truth is i believe. Healthy minded people don't usually into get into these type situations, leaving so many trails of despair left out in the table to be questioned in such massive volumes... Manly because they dealt with [hopefuly] most of the issues appropriately at the time the problems arisen. From my researching about this disorder, most of the time these people don't ever come to terms or even see the same facts as us to even think there was ever a problem. So, to one day suddenly get a call from her, revealing to me new light into old incidents...  with a compete and clear recall towards taking accountability ?... .I would be throttled.

So, I agree - no hidden ulterior motives.  But rather, perhaps a simple acknowledgment that we were actually BOTH responsible for the gradual failure of the relationship... and not just the other person.

Now, I'm only less than 3 months out so, I still have a closer sense of the issues. Perhaps at 1.5 years I'll take pity on her which, i really have started to do. I actually thought the other day that I was gonna just reach out to her and ask "how she's doing?". Forgetting completely that she 'erased my number and told me to never call her again'. So, I guess  I'm having a hard time supporting anything about who she is at this point. Any interaction at this point I feel will just trigger her and, I guess I had enough of that for one lifetime.

I do keep my hopes up though, and hope she comes around eventually. I'll be waiting and will do my best to keep it light and more importantly, keep the peace. I hope she is finding peace in her heart for me too.

[myself]

If you're working toward living your life in less complicated ways, and she (or whoever/whatever) keeps drawing your attention and best efforts away from that... .Meh. Do what's right for you. Be there for yourself. If you're meant to be friends the connection you share will weather that and be stronger for it.

[valet]

If you're working toward living your life in less complicated ways, and she (or whoever/whatever) keeps drawing your attention and best efforts away from that... .Meh. Do what's right for you. Be there for yourself. If you're meant to be friends the connection you share will weather that and be stronger for it.

I completely agree. Thank you.

[Mars22]

If you're working toward living your life in less complicated ways, and she (or whoever/whatever) keeps drawing your attention and best efforts away from that... .Meh. Do what's right for you. Be there for yourself. If you're meant to be friends the connection you share will weather that and be stronger for it.

Amen.