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Author Topic: Managing money  (Read 447 times)
Dragon72
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« on: May 25, 2016, 11:53:19 AM »

I am the sole bread-winner in the household (my uBPDw, toddler son and me). My wife is a stay-at-home mom who "struggles to get everything done", even though our house is very small and our son is at a play group for 4 hours every morning.

I have two sources of income: my "day job" as a school teacher brings in the majority of the income, and my freelance private lessons in the afternoon brings in 10-20% of my day-job's take home pay as extra.

Currently my wife demands that I withdraw all my money from the bank every time my dayjob pays me, and give her the cash for her to manage. 

I am left with the freelance work money which she says is for "extras" like birthday presents for us and the extended family, for entertaining, for her to have English lessons twice a week (she's Mexican and her English is v. poor) and for unforseen expenses. Also our phone/cable/internet bill falls into this category for some strange reason.  We very rarely go out and very rarely treat ourselves to anything, but when we do, it comes out of this source of cash.

She has piles of my day-job cash tucked away in a hidden location in the house, with each pile earmarked for different things: mortgage payments, bills, son's school fees etc. etc. She also has "piles" of cash which are for money she is setting aside to eventually buy a new car (which I say we do not need) and for a holiday to see a friend of hers in another country (which was also decided without my full consent). 

At the end of each month she says there is no money left over and that it is all spent or allocated for future purchases.  Whenever I enquire about the state of our finances I she gets defensive, thinking that I am questioning her honesty, and when she does give me a breakdown of where it all goes, it is written down (quite literally) on the back of a napkin.

I am not happy with this situation for many reasons, not the least of which is the question of what happens if there is a fire and all our money goes up in smoke.  On a number of occasions I have tried to persuade her to manage it on a spreadsheet so that it can be easily seen and calculated by both of us, and to make forward planning easier.  She has refused each time to cooperate with that. 

One time I came home on payday and announced that I would be handling the money from now on, but that we both should work together with the help of the spreadsheet I had set up, to plan the allocation of the funds.  I said that the speadsheet would be always viewable and editable by both of us for complete transparency.  I included what I felt the budget should look like, including a very modest and equal amount that we would each receive to spend how we want each month.

Her reaction was not good and she completely refused to cooperate.  She told me that I should just do it all on my own, if that's my attitude.  She then emotionally manipulated me into capitulating and we're back to the situation where I hand over all my hard earned cash every payday and I feel like the question of where the money ends up is a taboo subject.

I'm not really sure how to get out of this situation without major conflict. Or is it that I just have to accept that it will get ugly?

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flourdust
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2016, 12:03:09 PM »

Take her up on the offer to do it all on your own. You can still make the spreadsheet available to her for transparency.
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globalnomad
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2016, 12:59:39 PM »

Her reaction was not good and she completely refused to cooperate.  She told me that I should just do it all on my own, if that's my attitude.  She then emotionally manipulated me into capitulating and we're back to the situation where I hand over all my hard earned cash every payday and I feel like the question of where the money ends up is a taboo subject.

I'm not really sure how to get out of this situation without major conflict. Or is it that I just have to accept that it will get ugly?

Hey Dragon. Sounds like a tough one. I would second flourdust. Take her up on the offer. But put aside the spreadsheet issues for now. Are you happy with handing over all your cash to her to manage? Have you considered setting a boundary here?
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formflier
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2016, 01:20:21 PM »



Few big picture things.

1.  Take her up on her offer.  But keep the door open to her to participate in a healthy way.  Don't "hold it over her" that she once tried to be manipulative.

2.  Don't worry about her feelings.  She is in charge of them.  You are in charge of yours.

3.  Keep the spreadsheet for your own purposes.  If she wants to look, she can look.  Don't push it, don't hide it.

Even bigger picture, when she starts wanting the cash again, ask for help understanding how that is better, listen, don't judge.  Validate what you can.  Restate her position to make sure you have it right. 

But for now, take her up on her offer.

For the future, limit your "announcements".  Bring things up for discussion.  Ask her desires first.  Listen for the idea, but more importantly the emotion to validate. 

in the end, manage the money, keep the door open for her.

FF
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Dragon72
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2016, 01:22:48 PM »

I guess the answer is, no, I'm not happy handing over all my money.

Her replies:

"Why aren't you happy that I manage the money?"

"It's not your money. It's the family's money."

":)on't you trust me?"

"You don't trust me!"

"My father always did that for my mother to manage and my father was perfectly happy"

"I'm doing you a favor as I can pay the bills while you're at work"

"Why, what are you going to spend the money on?"
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formflier
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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2016, 02:01:21 PM »



Very informative replies. 

Take a look at them and tell me about the emotions that you see in those messages, the fears.

FF
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flourdust
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« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2016, 02:06:33 PM »

Don't argue. Just stop giving her your paycheck.

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Dragon72
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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2016, 02:40:56 PM »

Very informative replies. 

Take a look at them and tell me about the emotions that you see in those messages... .the fears.

FF

This is what I think is really being said in her head:

"Why aren't you happy that I manage the money?" (You don't think I'm responsible)

"It's not your money. It's the family's money." (You're not going to take care of me and our son)

":)on't you trust me?" (I don't trust you)

"You don't trust me!" (I don't trust you)

"My father always did that for my mother to manage and my father was perfectly happy" (My mother was the matriarch. That's what I must be too)

"I'm doing you a favor as I can pay the bills while you're at work" (I need something to do apart from housework and childcare)

"Why, what are you going to spend the money on?" (You're going to steal money from the family)
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formflier
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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2016, 04:19:54 PM »

 

Pretty good responses, there is fear there.

How can you validate that?  If you asked her about her emotions when she brought that up, what would she say?

You want to find the "validation target" if possible

FF
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teapay
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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2016, 05:54:02 PM »

Ultimately, I had to throw my W off the credit cards and the bank accounts.  I now give her a set amount on prepaid card and some cash.  She has her own accounts and a small part time job.

I heard alot of the things your wife says over the years.  We tried to work on this over the last few years in every way imaginable.  Spreadsheets, Quicken apps, cash, budgets after budgets, even during MC with smooches agreements.  Still my W would find some way to bleed us of cash.  Early on in our marriage she was really good at this stuff but lost the ability to manage simple things like money.  Eventually I had to pull the plug.  Did it go down well?  No.  But do boundaries generally go down well?  Is the family better off now?  Yes.  Is she happy about it.  No.  Am I happier now that I feel the family finances are more solid and controlled.  Yes, much happier.  Nuff said.
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waverider
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« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2016, 09:09:22 PM »

Ultimately nons and pwBPD handle money in different ways. Reasonings and priorities differ, many pwBPD are simply hopeless at it with impulse spending running away with them. This is all part of lack of regulation skills in most aspects of life.

The upshot is normally it is near impossible to do it by 'committee" it will always be a point of contention. Usually one or the other has to do it. Typically a pwBPD fears losing control, more than the actual desire to be "in control'. This means if the non takes over there will be resistance, however eventually once they realize it doesn't negatively impact them they are happy to let you do it, as it is less effort on their behalf and they get their needs met without the stress.
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