Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 28, 2024, 06:27:58 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
204
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Trauma Focused CBT Recommended For Us  (Read 634 times)
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« on: May 27, 2016, 12:12:25 AM »

www.academicdepartments.musc.edu/projectbest/tfcbt/tfcbt.htm

We had the appointment for S6 yesterday. Unfortunately, his mother and I talked to the P about his recent playing with his sister's dolls. He was sticking his hands down the pants of one last week.

My Ex also expanded upon the story of him hiding in the closet with  a doll, undressing it, and a male figurine. He told his mom that the girl was muddy, and the guy was preparing her for a bath, then he would go away forever.

The P asked us to tell her about the molestation incident a year ago. My Ex started, then I continued, having been the one to report, since then D3 told me. Then S5 confirmed it, then later denied it. We were told by my T and confirmed by this P that this was typical for a kid his age. It caused me to doubt even so, but S6 did it tonight in the space of a minute. Grandma sticks hot peppers in their mouths. They've developed this frustrating habit of giving the Bronx Cheer when they don't like something. S6 due to his OCDness has been saying "poo-poo pee-pee." D4 and S6 told me, and I tried to be as calm as possible, then S6 denied it. D4 said that she did. I told my son that I believed him the first time, which is what I said about 8 months ago when he changed his story and said his sister was lying.

The P seemed more sympathetic to my Ex, who started tearing up. Sure, I easnt at the home when 4 cops descended, cuffed her 17yo brother and interviewed everyone seperately, but I stood at the police station window for 4 hours that day, wracked with anxiety and guilt, feeling like I was going to get in trouble fir not reporting it the first time our daughter told me... .when she was still 2, a few months before her 3rd birthday.

The Psychiatrist's residency is ending at the end of summer, so not quite enough time for her to lead us through this. She referred us into TFCBT, which involves both children and parents.

Personally, I want us to move past this, especially since D4 hasn't mentioned it since September. There may be latent issues here, however, that need to be addressed. If it comes up again, the family may once again hate us as they did last year for many months; mostly me, but my Exm too, for "siding" with me. 

Tonight was her brother's his graduation. It's my custody night, but I saw nothing wrong with her taking them. Public place, family, it only happens once. I offered twice, then stopped. The kids would be safe. He's around, there are parties. His sister threatened him last year if he ever touched them again.

The outlier here is mom's projected anxieties, especially given her own molestation, which no one in her family knows about (it was in their home country, and the perp's long dead).

I came across a book where the female T had a thesis that the reactions of adults, even professionals, resulted in traumatizing child victims of sexual abuse more than the abuse itself.  Some of that argument is compelling. The comments from some of the reviewers turned me off, however: not so thinly disguised advocates for adult-child sex. Sickening, it was, how seemingly reasoned their arguments were. Not straight out pedos, but close. Sick bastids.

So this leaves us where we are. Additional complications are the history of the "divorce" how mom elicited anger from the kids by introducing them to their now step-dad right after she moved out. Lying to our son about why she left, etc. I like to think I handled it well vis-a-vis the kds, but maybe I did some things wrong as well.
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Thunderstruck
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 823



« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2016, 05:58:09 PM »

I came across a book where the female T had a thesis that the reactions of adults, even professionals, resulted in traumatizing child victims of sexual abuse more than the abuse itself. 

I do believe this. Not just about sexual abuse, but about many threats/abuse. I've read many stories about dads who lost their temper with a child and the mother made such a big deal about it being a fearful thing/event that eventually the child ends up not wanting to see the father because they are so scared (of course, this is where the abuse and alienation overlap).
Logged

"Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength."

"The sun shines and warms and lights us and we have no curiosity to know why this is so. But we ask the reason of all evil, of pain, and hunger, and mosquitos and silly people." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2016, 11:17:26 PM »

I left a message for the doc, and she called me back. Made an appointment to talk to her, just us parents. I listed some of my concerns, and she said that she would explain why it's necessary. I called my Ex to see if she could make the appointment. She was telling me about behaviors she observes with the kids, then she started theorizing that the kids, especially D4, may feel that she doesn't protect them due to being around her brother ("someone who abused her", even if the time is minimal. She tells the kids that if anybody mistreats them to come to her, even Daddy. And then she threw in that they should come to me if she mistreats them. Maybe she feels guilty that our daughter didn't tell her until after she told me?

She projects anxiety. She stopped by the house a few weeks ago to drop off a bag. The kids were happy to see her, so they went onto the porch to greet her. Her first words were, "get inside! It's cold! Why aren't you wearing socks, or pants!" D was wearing a pajama dress and didn't want pants. Neither wanted socks. Then she said, "I dint understand. You guys always wear socks at my house." She has carpet, I have tile and laminate. D4 runs hot anyway, and is always taking off her socks. I felt like saying, "this is a Safe House. We leave our anxieties at the door." She picked up a lot of anxieties from her mom, and is aware of this.

I still am considering Step-dad's comments to me about how much calmer the kids are when they come back from me. BPD waif mothers often comment how their kids are uncontrollable, but will not see that they themselves are the problem by failing to administer rules.

Her mom is a major hermit. Her 17 yo brother (the molester) didn't learn to ride a bike until he was 17, and he had to teach himself, despite two parents and 5 older siblings. I spent 20 mins with S6 after removing his training wheels, a stage he mostly skipped.  In addition to the previous violence, the family unit neglects its members severely from an emotional standpoint.

Talking to her on the phone today, I almost feel like she's on the border of finding alternate childcare. Simmer is here. Her brother will be home. I personally feel that the kids are safe from the brother, given the clearly communicated boundaries, and what I did. Calling the cops was a mercy. If it had been the reverse, I'm sure several men would have showed up at my home with baseball bats.

In any case, we'll move forward. Their mom wants to transfer our son to a different school. She feels the staff is disrespecting her. I just listened. Not sure what to validate there or how to proceed, but that's another subject.

Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Ulysses
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 239


« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2016, 11:27:48 PM »

Hi Turkish, this is an interesting post.  

I agree to an extent that an adult's reaction to a situation can affect the child.  I remember with some of the very, very worrying things my D (the 6) did or that happened to her, I felt I had to use super-human strength to stay calm, and relaxed.  For instance, the time I was getting her ready for her bath, and I saw that her dad and his girlfriend had drawn intricate tattoos just above her hipbones, I was seething. But my biggest thought was, I don't want her to feel dirty because of the reaction she sees in me.  Stay calm, stay calm, stay calm.  So I totally understand.

At the same time, I think a parent needs to realize when something is probably going on, or did go on, that affected the child.  Children often work things out through play.  His play with dolls could indicate he's thinking about something or working through some things.  It could also just be his age.  When my daughter was 6 and drew a picture I was stunned and horrified with, and told a "riddle" about naked people in rope crawling home, I took it to her therapist and I took it to the school counselor (I was 99% sure this was not an age-related thing).  I asked if it was possible she could have been exposed to these ideas as school.  (BTW that was another time I was screaming inside my head but trying to remain super-calm with my D).  The school counselor felt it was out of character for my D, and there was no evidence of anything like that going on at the school.  She contacted my D T and recommended my D go more frequently.

I don't have any research to back this up, but I do believe I've heard that a parent who is abused and doesn't get therapy can pass on traits that are a result of their abuse, to their children.  It's called generational-something, I think.  It seems that therapy could be really beneficial to your children, if not due only to molestation, but to change in family circumstances.

I'm also wondering, and I ask this respectfully, why is your D even around the uncle that molested her?   I hope I don't offend with this question.  She might not be acting out in a way that is recognizable, or acting out at all at this time, but I would think that being around someone who molested her is sending her a message about her worth.  Is it certain that he touched her inappropriately?  

Do you have regular conversations, in relaxed moments, with your children about appropriate touch/bathing suit area, etc.?  It's an ongoing thing in my home, given their father's past behavior (and because of general safety).

The children being around members of the x's family who are considered abusive or neglectful is a sticky issue with me.  My in-laws are neglectful, and in my opinion, border on abusive (when my S was 5, after being watched for a few days by my MIL, played violently with his toys, played punishment and death themes, which he'd never done before, ever, and said he was a "brat."  My then-H wouldn't have a conversation with MIL about it, so I said she's not watching him until he's older, and then I spent a few months "deprogramming" him from thinking he was a bad kid.)  Yet now I have no control over them seeing the in-laws.  All I can do is have conversations with my children about appropriate behavior toward children and toward other in general (thanks to this board for giving me ideas of how to have these conversations).
Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2016, 11:56:26 PM »

I don't mind at all. I'm opening up our life for help, judgement and all...

My Ex brought up your very point this week, like are we sending her a message, despite the boundaries. As my T, the one I called who told me it was a mandatory report, said, "we dint know exactly what happened." This was before last September when D then 3 showed us. She had just turned 3 when she told me what he did and I reported the next day. Tjats more what I struggle with: what really happened. Everyone we talked to is certain something inappropriate happened though.

(As for the tatoo drawing story, wth? Pardon my language)

I watched the kds today since I didn't have to work. Mom had them yesterday. D was super defiant and acting out, the worst she's ever been. Though we're not supposed to interrogate, I asked both if something happened. They said no, not seemingly evasive. This afternoon, they were both playing with her dolls, undressing them. I didn't judge (I surreptitiously took a few pictues), though I asked them what they were doing. Same story, "they got into the mud so we're getting them ready for a bath." I told them to dress the dolls. D4 asked for help.

I went into the kitchen to wash dishes and prep for dinner. D4 came in, "S6 touched my vagina!" He did this over a month ago and I got pissed. I went into the living room and asked what he did. He told me. I was calm. I asked him why he did it (and I've told both kids numerous times that they were not to touch each other). He said it was because he wanted to make her laugh. I asked him if he'd seen that, and if he got it from somewhere. He said he got it from his head. I asked him twice.  I talked to him again about respecting our private parts, and told him point blank not to do that. Then D4 held up her doll, laughed, and said, ":)addy, I touched her vagina!"

I think we have big problems... .

Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Sunfl0wer
`
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: He moved out mid March
Posts: 2583



« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2016, 05:55:10 AM »

Excerpt
I'm also wondering, and I ask this respectfully, why is your D even around the uncle that molested her?   I hope I don't offend with this question.  She might not be acting out in a way that is recognizable, or acting out at all at this time, but I would think that being around someone who molested her is sending her a message about her worth.  Is it certain that he touched her inappropriately?   

I am thinking the same.

You said that you feel the kids seem safe with boundaries you helped put in place.

I doubt I would feel at at emotionally safe seeing the rest of the world treat my abuser as a normal person and not a perpetrator.  To see him laugh, be free, be relaxed, be anything but treated like a perpetrator would be hugely invalidating to my experience.  Because having to face my abuser, no one would know this, but I would be consumed with thoughts about the abuse.  Even at 4!  Even though I am seemingly unaffected running around acting ok.

I cannot imagine that your daughter and son can actually understand it is not ok to touch someones privates when it continues to happen to her by her brother.  This seemingly "innocent" play, then tell dad... .Just appears reinforcing that it really has little consequence to touch a another, even when reported.

IMO: Son should not ever be left unsupervised with his sister until therapist has in plan a procedure for managing this behavior and what to do if it occurs.  The CONSEQUENCE should be NO ability for access to her vagina EVER!
Logged

How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself.~Anais Nin
Ulysses
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 239


« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2016, 12:15:34 AM »

Hi Turkish, I'm sorry if my question sounded judgmental.  I didn't mean it to be, but I think I tend to ask questions beginning with "why" and that can be judgmental.  It's something I'm working on, and have been for awhile.

I think it's good that your kids talk to you about this.

I think at 5 and 6 years of age children do think about private parts, babies, etc.  However, what you're describing sounds somewhat different, but I'm not expert.

I think Sunflower has a good suggestion.  I wonder if you can orchestrate playtime to be in the same room that you're in?  Maybe have an activity for them in the kitchen when you're cooking?  Or one of them can come in the kitchen to color or do a special activity while you're cooking (you could alternate each night)?  This makes more work for you.  But it might break the habit/pattern of them being left alone at that time of day.  This might help establish new patterns for them.  I read about this type of separation in a child development book, I think put out decades ago by the Gesell institute.  They called it home engineering or something, and talked about having separate play areas within the house for children when needed.  I did a version of this when my youngest was first walking and inevitably walked through the intricate playmobile scenes my older one had spent hours building (kind of like Godzilla).  I moved furniture so my oldest (6 at the time) could play safely while my youngest could roam free.  

What about a mother's helper?  A 12-14 year old girl who could be with your children while you're at home?  One hour a day would give you time to cook.  The few wonderful babysitters and mother's helpers I've had have taken a little weight off of my shoulders (interestingly, when I was married, H complained about the cost after I told him how nice it was to get help 5 hours/week).  The one I have now, who I hired after the divorce, is great with my kids.  I hear them laughing and it's really nice, especially on the days or weeks when I'm stressed or feeling down, and don't feel I can be the happy one with my kids.

I imagine a therapist would have better strategies than this for you.  

I think I would see if you could keep your daughter and son away from anyone who has mistreated them.  It sounds like their mom might agree with you on this?  What about the stepfather?  What is his role/his input?  I wonder if you could talk to your kids about the uncle, and that he does things that are hurtful, and with which you do not agree?  When I found out about the role my MIL played in my exH's affair, we agreed she would not be around my children, or me (unless she came to therapy with me).  We told our children that she was sick in the heart (and maybe the head), and we didn't feel it was healthy for them to be around  her.  Just like if someone had the flu, we wouldn't want them to be around them.  I checked it out with MC and my T before I told my children, and they said it was fine to tell them this.  It seems a little harsh, but I do believe there is something sick about her, and her behavior was awful.  I still maintain this as my truth when I talk to my children, although I know my exH doesn't anymore.  

Do you ever draw with your children?  Sometimes they can convey information to you through drawings, that they can't verbalize yet.  You could spend a few weeks drawing different locations, how you feel at some of those locations, drawing family members, etc.  Just see what they come up with.  Can you videotape how they're playing with the dolls?  Or is that too weird?  You might want to document everything.

No apologies needed about the tattoo episode.  My thoughts about it were, and are, much stronger than, "wth."  It makes me sick to my stomach to think about it.  There's so much more to it than that, including a past affair partner and the porno books they wrote together, and tattoos and sexual satisfaction.  Ick.

When do your children begin seeing therapists?
Logged
Ulysses
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 239


« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2016, 12:33:46 AM »

Excerpt
Talking to her on the phone today, I almost feel like she's on the border of finding alternate childcare. Simmer is here. Her brother will be home.

What are the summer care plans for your children?  I would hesitate to have them at home all day with a relative who molested them.

Excerpt
His sister threatened him last year if he ever touched them again.

Um, so what?  Not to be too blunt here, but this sounds like a dysfunctional situation.  Lots of family members tell alcoholics that they will leave, punish, etc., if they drink again.  I imagine it could be the same for abuse.

Excerpt
The outlier here is mom's projected anxieties, especially given her own molestation

Could you clarify what you mean by this?  I'm not sure I understand re:  the projected anxieties and the actual things your children seem to be saying and doing.

Excerpt
Additional complications are the history of the "divorce" how mom elicited anger from the kids by introducing them to their now step-dad right after she moved out. Lying to our son about why she left, etc. I like to think I handled it well vis-a-vis the kds, but maybe I did some things wrong as well

Yep, I'm in the same boat, although my children are a little older.  It's natural for them to feel that anger.  Is your son taking out some anger on your daughter, e.g. by touching her inappropriately?  I imagine you handled your situation well.  We probably all made some mistakes along the way in this crazy road we're traveling on. 

Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2016, 01:17:30 AM »

The session with the Resident Psych is next week. It can't some too soon. We have S6 in a science-type camp every day until he almost starts 1st grade. I need to talk to her about what we're doing with D4. Something odd happened with the neighbor across the street who had previously watched the kids from time to time. Their daughters are close to the ages of our kids. There is both a cultural and language barrier there. I still talk to the husband, who s friendly and speaks good English. The mom is recommended by another neighbor, but it's weird.

I am glad that the kids' uncle is back from college. I trust him implicitely. He's the one most differentiated from the other siblings. He got on the kids' case when they ran back to his room. Rooms are off limits. The 17yo wasn't there. I'm going to talk to her yet again about back up/alternate childcare.

The kids played with the dolls again today. Nothing sexual. I observed. They said that mom got mad when they did it at her home. I didn't. I want to gather data.

D4 was an angel today compared to yesterday. I briefly talked to their mom tonight, and she said that she spent time with our daughter, and apologized for not being patient with her enough. D4 told me a story tonight about Mommy being mad yesterday . Her Devil Child behavior towards me yesterday may have had to do more with that, and the unresolved anger may have been taken out on me and S6. It's hard to seperate out what's going on here.
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Harri
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 5981



« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2016, 05:23:32 PM »

Hi Turkish.  Gosh you have a lot going on.  I am imagining high stress levels and anxiety and incredible sadness here.  How are you holding up? 

Excerpt
The P seemed more sympathetic to my Ex, who started tearing up. Sure, I easnt at the home when 4 cops descended, cuffed her 17yo brother and interviewed everyone seperately, but I stood at the police station window for 4 hours that day, wracked with anxiety and guilt, feeling like I was going to get in trouble fir not reporting it the first time our daughter told me... .when she was still 2, a few months before her 3rd birthday.

The trauma and violation occurred for ALL of you, your daughter and son, your ex and you.  Being the one to call, well, that, gosh, I don't really have the words.  The fear and anxiety you mentioned here and in other posts regarding this is palpable.  I think in cases like this, dad's get left out and are often neglected, especially if it is a female who is listening.  (Readers, please no rotten tomato throwing! It is simply my opinion of what often happens in the world, not necessarily on this board).  This saddens me beyond words.   :'( 

Excerpt
Personally, I want us to move past this, especially since D4 hasn't mentioned it since September. There may be latent issues here, however, that need to be addressed. If it comes up again, the family may once again hate us as they did last year for many months; mostly me, but my Exm too, for "siding" with me.

Turkish, there *are* latent issues.  You've tried the 'lets move past this' and it has not worked.  The 'inappropriate behavior'/abuse will, as you are seeing, out itself one way or another and sooner is better than later IMO.  As painful and difficult as this is, thank God you are seeing the issues now and are seeking help when they are still young and there is a chance to save them from a lifetime of crap.  Well done my friend.  The next time you feel hurt and left out when some short sighted or biased counselor seems to ignore how this has affected you, remember this and maybe the grief and hurt will be lessened or at least balanced by knowing you did the right, courageous and *fatherly* thing to do.  You tend to minimize the things you do and I get it, but I am not going to let you do that here.   

Excerpt
She was telling me about behaviors she observes with the kids, then she started theorizing that the kids, especially D4, may feel that she doesn't protect them due to being around her brother ("someone who abused her", even if the time is minimal. She tells the kids that if anybody mistreats them to come to her, even Daddy. And then she threw in that they should come to me if she mistreats them. Maybe she feels guilty that our daughter didn't tell her until after she told me?

  The part i bolded seems natural (to me) given the preceding line about you, so maybe not guilt?  You know her better than anyone here though.

If you want opinions (yeah, I know you did not ask for any but... .!  Smiling (click to insert in post) )  I am very glad that you and your ex are thinking of alternative options for summer and after school care.  I think the kids are spending too much time in a house after pre/school where the molestation took place *and* where your ex and her 5 brothers have all been raised to become very dysfunctional people.  Like others here mentioned, there are mixed signals being sent to the kids:  what uncle did was wrong but we are going to still let you be around him and the very people who raised him to be the damaged person he is.  If I remember correctly, your ex's mother denied S17's behavior, was angry with you for taking steps to protect your kids and says things like "you should hit the kids" to your ex.  There are other things you have reported being said in that environment that have set off alarms for me (do I remember correctly that she was actually telling your kids that the incident never happened?).  The people in that house are not emotionally or mentally healthy.  So why not limit the kids exposure to such things and instead increase their socialization with their peers and trained adults who can offer them a rich variety of social behaviors to emulate?  With summer coming up, there would be a smooth transition from g-ma's house to camps, after school programs and daycare.  Like any other family with BPD/traits and enmeshed and co-dependent enablers, they will get angry and feel resentment.  It is a reality of being involved/born to families with dysfunction.  Par for the course.  Expect it.  Plan for it.  And allow yourself to grieve.  It sucks all the way around.  There is no way things are not going to hurt and be difficult.  Change is hard for any family.  BPD/traits just ramps it up. 

While your daughter may have been the one who was molested, your son was also abused.  Maybe not overtly, but certainly being a witness to such things is indeed abusive and highly damaging.  Read up on covert sexual abuse/incest.  IMO, not that it is worth much as I have no training, your son was molested as well just by being a witness.  What a world of hurt you are all in. 

I've read enough of your posts and have read enough responses from you to my own posts to know that you have the right stuff; knowledge, compassion, empathy, wisdom and endless love.   You will get through this of that I have no doubt.  But going through is key.   
Logged

  "What is to give light must endure burning." ~Viktor Frankl
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2016, 12:24:48 AM »

S6 has only a week break, then he starts Terminator Robotics Camp until the end of July.

I talked to their mom today, echoing what you all have said. She's going to take D4 to work with her. There is a community center a block away and she's going to see if she can get her into a program.

Given that she's ten years from being able to be home by herself, this will be a recurring thing. I don't think unlce17 is going away to college like his older brother, but doing a JC locally. I don't even know that for sure. My Ex was her two youngest brothers' proxy mom when I met them, the brothers 13 and 9. After we had a family, my Ex backed off, and no one filled the gap. Then leaving me, she became kind of a grey sheep (they were all mad at her to various degrees, but she is blood, so they accepted my replacement), but her distance from her little brother grew.

I wish I could be there to guide the youngest uncle, as I kind of did the older one (with whom I've reestablished a r/s with after he came back from university and after the events a year ago), but that will never happen.

The parents are about 60. The eldest brother, about 40 who  (and probably BPD, all the siblngs know he's not exactly stable) just moved out, and the second youngest (26--- but ok, we trust him), still lives at home, but is getting married this summer. The family doesn't challenge the boys at all. I wouldn't be surprised if the 17 yo never moves out. The Baby, they infantilized him (while neglecting him). Despite what he did, it pisses me off, their family dynamic. Easy for me to say, I guess, the only child of a single mother.
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2016, 12:50:07 AM »

What are the summer care plans for your children?  I would hesitate to have them at home all day with a relative who molested them.

Quote from: Turkish
His sister threatened him last year if he ever touched them again.

Um, so what?  Not to be too blunt here, but this sounds like a dysfunctional situation.  Lots of family members tell alcoholics that they will leave, punish, etc., if they drink again.  I imagine it could be the same for abuse.

The T suggested me doing it, but said it would be necessary for his sister to do so (he's a minor, they're related). She didn't assault him, but confronted him.

Quote from: Turkish


The outlier here is mom's projected anxieties, especially given her own molestation

Could you clarify what you mean by this?  I'm not sure I understand re:  the projected anxieties and the actual things your children seem to be saying and doing.

I often had the gut feeling that my Ex was the victim of sexual abuse. I asked her once, and she denied it. She freaked when our son went through a short phase when he wanted to kiss me on the lips. He was 3. Another time I was making kissy noises near then D1's ear and she freaked again, both times like I was molesting them.

Last year, in a T session after the report (I convinced her to come along with me to the T she abandoned me to in order to get fixed), he asked her if she had been molested. She said that she had been by her grandfather in their country of origin. He's long dead. Her family doesn't know, and probably wouldn't believe her.

He asked her, "so the girls in the family were treated differently; they weren't protected."

"Yes."

Her family has no clue why she "sided" with me right away, blaming me for controlling her, perhaps (as well as suggesting that I was the molester).

Given she being easily triggered based upon her unresolved trauma, this is what I mean about projecting.
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2016, 02:18:53 AM »

We had the intake appointment for D4.

In filled out the intake form before hand to save time though I had my ex read over it.  She filled out her living situation.  I guess it is true that her husband is only 24. So she was 31 when they met,  she 31, and I was 41. She lied to me in the beginning when I guessed his age as 23 when they, met. I said that.  She didn't respond. I was out of school and working for a fortune 500 tech company (when I was 20) when he was born. The idealization ended with him.  The kids told me part week that she called him stupid when they were on an outing. I asked S6 how he felt about that: "did you feel sad,  mad,  or you didn't care?" He didn't care,  and didn't seem negative.  Sad.  

He dysregulated tonight,  multiple times.  I got angry over his defiance,  but held and comforted him.  I asked him what he was upset about.  He said because I got angry.  He said mommy gets angry.  I apologized,  but also called him out on his defiance.  Crying, dropping to the floor. He defied me by smearing toothpaste on the counter,  and dysregulated worse when I had him clean it up.  

He was fine soon after.  I probably shouldn't have asked,  but I did: ":)o I get more angry at you or does Mommy?"  After I got them into bed,  he started asking about the schedule.  She's going on a trip this week,  so I'll have them an extra two days.  I told him.  He said that he wanted to stay with me.  I asked why.  He said that it was because he loved me more.  This was despite an hour of dysregulation. I asked him why,  and he said because she was always angry.   We're also getting him evaluated for ASD, even if he is high functioning.  He did some sexual acting out at handmade house.  Exes younger sis didn't tell me,  but my ex did. Grabbed D4's hand to touch his privates.  Aunt was shocked. No one else in the family takes seriously the past abuse except for me and my ex.  Her family is foolish.  Denial.  Younger sister gives more access to her brother for her child than our kids.  Not foolish.  Stupid. My Ex's warnings fall on deaf ears.   

Filing out the intake forms., their mom tics off far more red flag traits than either kid.  She's cooperative,  but the Psychs don't know the real history here.  I'm resisting triangulating.  They wouldn't believe me,  and if in their shoes,  I might not either.  This is going to be tricky.
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2016, 11:00:16 PM »

We've had a few sessions with a T. There was one last week which I thought was specifically for  D. My ex had to take a work call,  so I had ten minutes with the T. I was unaware that she spent quite a but of time last week with my ex discussing things.  I've missed a lot of work due to all of this.  I'm going to the next appointment regardless.  My ex only emailed me a rewards sheet a few days ago,  no conversation about what they talked about.  I was kind of caught with my pants down,  though the T reviewed. 

Earlier this week we attended a parents class.  D was too young to attend the children's group,  so S6 attended.  My ex was nodding and writing things down that the T facilitator was saying,  even spoke up a few times.  She had to leave since she didn't know it went so late.  I kind of felt abandoned like I was in a few types of r/s therapies... .maybe I'm to sensitive.  Her main concern for S6 was his socialization.  I see him get along well. other than the two incidents with kids at the beginning of kindergarten,  we've never had a complaint.  His teacher even wrote this year that he was a sweet boy.  Preschool,  pre-K, kinder,  and almost 3 years of Sunday school,  and we've never heard anything bad other than the two minor incidents. I think she doesn't understand him,  and may be projecting her social anxiety on him. 

Today,  she told the T that she liked one thing I said in the parents group,  "children mirror our behaviors, so an angry parent [I actually said pissed off in the group] results in an angry child." The  T liked that.  Brownie points for Turkish, I guess. 

It's helping me a little,  but helping my ex more.  She admitted that she is working on bit reacting, but pausing to think more logically.  I said that the kids seemed more calm the past two weeks.  My ex said that she thought the T was helping,  maybe,  but I think things have calmed at their home more. 

The T said that she hasn't observed behaviors consistent with overt trauma,  so I think the CBT is out.  We will have one more individual session with just us and D4, to discuss body boundaries,  after which we'll be referred to another group for parents of kids her age. 

What I did get out of it,  and we dismissed the kids from the room at this point,  was what to say to  D4 if the topic of her uncle touching her came up again,  because she hasn't mentioned it since late last year. This especially concerns me because she still sees him.  Even when it was going on,  she still talked as if she liked him.  Hard to process. My Ex's family didn't get it,  but it's not like he locked her in a dungeon and tortured her. What I got from the T was that it was OK to think aboutb people in gray terms.  Good people do bad things;  bad people do good things. It's OK to hold onto the good memories.  If it comes up in the future,  "Uncle violated the body parts rule,  and he got in trouble with the cops... ." For me,  the hardest thing is how to deal with this if it ever comes up in the future.  Her family,  of course,  is still in denial,  though they follow the safety rules and boundaries. 

Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Ulysses
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 239


« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2016, 01:13:27 AM »

Excerpt
Even when it was going on,  she still talked as if she liked him.  Hard to process.

I've been wondering about this part of your post.  Does this mean you're not sure what to make of D4 actions/attitudes?  I would think, especially if there was harm occurring, that it could be a child's defense mechanisms kicking in. 

Also, do there need to be signs of trauma in order to participate in the CBT (e.g. insurance coverage conditions)?  I would think even if there aren't signs of trauma, CBT could be helpful for your children, given the changes they're experiencing.
Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2016, 01:36:45 AM »

I'm not sure.  The family said,  related though my ex,  "if he did something then she should be afraid of him. " that's not always his it is.  CBT is off the table for now but we have one follow up appointment next week to discuss body part boundaries.  S6 violated it tonight and blamed it on demons.  That scared me.  He may be blame shifting (probably), but he also obsesses about things. 
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2016, 12:55:45 AM »

D4 has had 2 sessions of TFCBT. Mommy and I wait in the hall,  then our daughter plays in the hall while the T talks to us.  In the first session, the T had her draw a self portrait.  Our  D sees herself well.  I think that  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  can arise during this exercise for traumatized children. 

We've been discussing body boundaries with the kids,  the T too. At this past week's session,  the T defined (age appropriately,  I'm sure) sexual abuse. D4 replied,  "like when "Uncle Billy touched me, but that was a long time ago. " A statement more than a question.  I almost started crying when I heard this.  I asked, "she said exactly that,  just a few minutes ago? " Yes.  Our daughter last mentioned this in September, the incidents having happened when she was 2, 1.5 years ago just when she turned 3. I suppose the point of this from the T's view is to not deny it,  though I'd rather D forget.  It's telling that she still remembers,  even if she doesn't seem traumatized. That would be easier... .for us to understand,  though hurtful to her. It's also why the family still denies it,  due to their preconceptions about sexual abuse.

We're also trying to work through what comes later. D4 still talks about "Uncle Billy" positively,  but it's likely that when she's 6-7-8, she might suddenly go,  "hey. ... waitaminute, you abused me!" Cue drama with the family. 
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!