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Author Topic: If your BPD partner is in therapy...  (Read 365 times)
Curiously1
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 390


« on: May 29, 2016, 11:20:33 PM »

were they in therapy before they met you or not?

what brought them to try therapy?

have you tried couples therapy? I've heard its not as effective as individual therapy for pwBPD

My ex and I are trying to make things work again however nothing has changed and I'm considering bringing up therapy with her again or ready to move on. Does anyone have an idea of how to bring it up without getting a pwBPD too defensive or flip out?

The last time this happened (when we were broken up and I was seen in a bad light), I was accused of being BPD myself, acting schiz and that I'm the one who needs therapy more than she does.

I know you cannot convince someone of going to therapy but, is there an effective way of bringing it up?

Additional question...

Also how do you deal with gaslighting? What is your response to it?

I'm normally thrown off when trying to consider my exes perspective.

My ex is implying I am an abuser and wanting to isolate her when that isn't the point I was making.

She is still friends with the replacement and I told her that made me uncomfortable and that in some circumstances

you can tell your partner you aren't cool with their friendships because of what happened in the past.

I told her she can make new friends and so can the replacement. The replacement is also suicidal and relies heavily on my ex for support and still loves my ex. The replacement's only friend is my ex and my ex only friend in this town is the replacement and they both guilt trip me. For example, the friend would ask me to decide whether she should stay or leave, or that she will disappear as long as I tell her to. I know that it will cause drama if I make the decisions for her and tell her to leave and that my ex will blame me for it. I told her that although I am uncomfortable, it's best she decides what she wants to do for herself (just so I am not caught in unnecessary drama). She thanked me for allowing her to spend time with my ex as a friend...

and reminded me that even if my ex is in the wrong she'll always be by my exes side and that she will try to be the best friend my ex ever had even if my ex wont care as much for her back. That relationships = pain for her and that I don't know her life. She has serious issues as well.

My ex told me I had to deal with her choosing to not cut ties and to stop being insecure because telling her to cut off a friend is unhealthy, abusive and a way of isolating her. She told me even if a friends a crap person a partner has no right to tell her what to do and be controlling and if she wasn't happy with someone I was friends with she wouldn't do it to me. In general normal circumstances I believe this is true. I don't normally tell people to cut people off for me. She forgot she hurt me badly because of her bad decisions...

and were working on trust and becoming a more secure couple. I don't think she understands the point. My feelings aren't being taken into account... at all. And the suicide thing affects me too.

She told me that it is the friends fault if they stick around even when they have feelings and cannot cope and it's the friends decision to stay. I asked her if she feels that this person isn't making her happy why does she keep her around and if she feels she owes the friend anything for hurting the friends feelings and she just said no.

She justifies it by saying she makes sure to spend only a couple of hours once a week with the replacement to catch up on a tv series they both enjoy watching together. She tells me she's happily friendzoned them. That the friend is only enjoyable in small doses and I don't need to worry and that shell take care of everything. She also justifies it by saying she's been in a similar situation before where she loved a friend but they didn't like her back. Eventually she got over it and for me to stop thinking in black and white that the replacement wont be able to get over their feelings for her whilst being her friend.
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JQ
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 09:09:33 PM »

Hello C1,

My now exBPDgf has been in & out of therapy with Clinical physiologist, Clinical Therapist and Ph.d's for more then 25 years.  She has an Ivy league education and has 2 Master degree's.  We did try couples therapy, but that ended in a mushroom cloud over the office of the Clinical Therapist.  Without getting to deep into my personal situation unless you really want to know details I will tell you that she is self aware that she has BPD. She has tried different pharma in addition to "talk therapy" aka DBT, EMDR among others.  I believe she is no further along in "management" of her behavior then she was 25 years ago.

ExBPDgf #1 & I had more then several conversations, text messages, IM's, & emails where she told me she was "broken" and couldn't promise me anything, including stopping the infidelity.  BPD is a VERY serious Cluster B Mental Illness with the origins of it being on a genetic level passing on from parent to child.  I've come to understand this better than I wanted to finding out my step mother is BPD who has passed it down to my step sister.

My first exBPDgf father had told me that her mother was placed in a mental ward of a local hospital more then once over the 40 yrs they were married and wanted me to go in with my "eyes wide open" if I was going to marry his daughter. I commend his courage to telling me such a family secret. He told me, "I don't want you to suffer the same fate I have without knowing ALL the details of what your about to get into."  And yes, she has r/s behavioral issues to this date. In her mind it's ok to have a bf at home where she shares a roof with, but no sex or other intimate details of their lives. She wanted to drop bf#2 who was providing her the sexual release she needed in order to obtain it from me. I refused her advances and it was like I had placed her cat in the electric chair and dropped the switch myself. I consider myself lucky to have been educated in BPD before this advance of hers.

After my last exBPDgf, I dove into everything BPD, here on the site, my own therapist, books, etc. I have come to learn why I was a codependent, "BPD step mother & alcoholic absent father" has set me up in part to be attracted to these type of r/s. I have since have gone through a tremendous amount of therapy to learn why & how to avoid it again and to search for a better r/s.

I've been told & taught & read that bringing up therapy or insisting on it or asking them if they've taken their meds is never a good idea. BPD is like being an alcoholic, you CAN'T force them to go. THEY have to WANT to go & seek out help on their own or it's NEVER going to work.  I would however encourage YOU to seek out a good therapist for YOUR OWN peace of mind to help you sort through your own thoughts, feelings, emotions in regards to this BPD r/s.  YOU need to learn to set YOUR OWN boundaries and how to enforce the consequences for someone stepping over and or breaking those boundaries.  This is a key part in any r/s much less one that involves someone having BPD.

Example, if you've read anything on this site or listen to your therapist, a BPD will keep more then one r/s, a main and one or more back-ups or standby's.  Once the replacement in the main r/s starts to get painted black the BPD will look for another replacement & start to paint them white. My exBPDgf had told me more than once about how her therapist could write a book on her sex triangles.  She was dating my replacement and sexting me, then called me. in the beginning I played along. But after some reenforcement therapy, I put down a boundary.

The next time she sexted me or called me for sexual conversation, I told her I was rather uncomfortable with the situation and that she should be having this conversation with her bf.  She tried to continue the conversation and I again enforced the boundary by telling her, "This is a conversation YOU should be having with "XXX"", I think I need to go, I miss you but I can't and won't be a part of any triangle again. It hurts to much", and with that I told her, if things change, you can call me.  

Less than an hour later she told me she had broken up with him and wanted to know if she could call me.  Now YOU seem to be a pretty smart person, would you believe her in this situation?  Yeah I didn't either, needless to say, that night didn't end well.  I set boundaries, I maintained them AND the MOST important part of boundaries, I maintained the consequences of breaking the boundary. I refused to talk to her as long as she was seeing someone else, I don't play the bf roulette game, to many consequences to it.

My point, is that they will continue to "insist" on being friends with an ex to maintain a steady back up of those who will feed their need even though they INSIST you drop all contact with any ex gf, spouse, etc so that they are the only one. In fact, during one of her more "lucid, clear head moments" we were having a conversation and I asked her if I maintained contact with my ex would she be ok with it and she said, "NO".  I then I asked her why then should I agree with your request if it's not good enough for me to do the same thing? She couldn't come up with a good answer.

In fact, she told me more then once, "I love you", "You need to know that I love you". I asked her, "What does that mean to you", her response, "Good questions, I'm not really sure".  She told me more than once she was "broken" which seems to be a common theme  within the forums here.  ANNND from a medical aspect she and others who suffer from the Cluster B Mental Illness of BPD are actually broken, physically & mentally.  YOU need to know there is NO cure for BPD and the BEST anyone can hope for is some level of "MANAGEMENT" of their behavior.  Which means they might continue the behavior they currently have, or they might be able to "MANAGE" it to a degree. But don't be fooled or hold out false hope. Again my exBPDgf has been in & out of therapy with very, VERY highly educated professional mental health experts for 25 plus years and still has behavior that is unexceptable to me, her ex-husband X 2, and numerous bf's.  I was very arrogantly uneducated in the BPD lifestyle, what made me think I could succeed where mental health professionals had failed.

A BPD will say or do whatever they need to in order to justify how they see the situation in THEIR eyes, regardless what you say. I started out with small boundaries and saw SOME success in it, but it was short lived and it was a small boundary.  Again the bottom line is that THEY will justify anything they need to if it, "FEEDS THEIR NEEDS" regardless of who it might hurt or the consequences of their actions.

My guidance to you is to seek out a REALLY good therapist who is very well educated in BPD/Codependent r/s and start to understand why you are attracted to someone who has BPD. You might not like what you find C1, but trust me, if you are to move forward in life and find a healthy r/s, it's the key to it all.  And nothing but good can come from that.

J
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Curiously1
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 390


« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2016, 07:05:06 AM »

Hello C1,

My now exBPDgf has been in & out of therapy with Clinical physiologist, Clinical Therapist and Ph.d's for more then 25 years.  She has an Ivy league education and has 2 Master degree's.  We did try couples therapy, but that ended in a mushroom cloud over the office of the Clinical Therapist.  Without getting to deep into my personal situation unless you really want to know details I will tell you that she is self aware that she has BPD. She has tried different pharma in addition to "talk therapy" aka DBT, EMDR among others.  I believe she is no further along in "management" of her behavior then she was 25 years ago.

ExBPDgf #1 & I had more then several conversations, text messages, IM's, & emails where she told me she was "broken" and couldn't promise me anything, including stopping the infidelity.  BPD is a VERY serious Cluster B Mental Illness with the origins of it being on a genetic level passing on from parent to child.  I've come to understand this better than I wanted to finding out my step mother is BPD who has passed it down to my step sister.

My first exBPDgf father had told me that her mother was placed in a mental ward of a local hospital more then once over the 40 yrs they were married and wanted me to go in with my "eyes wide open" if I was going to marry his daughter. I commend his courage to telling me such a family secret. He told me, "I don't want you to suffer the same fate I have without knowing ALL the details of what your about to get into."  And yes, she has r/s behavioral issues to this date. In her mind it's ok to have a bf at home where she shares a roof with, but no sex or other intimate details of their lives. She wanted to drop bf#2 who was providing her the sexual release she needed in order to obtain it from me. I refused her advances and it was like I had placed her cat in the electric chair and dropped the switch myself. I consider myself lucky to have been educated in BPD before this advance of hers.

After my last exBPDgf, I dove into everything BPD, here on the site, my own therapist, books, etc. I have come to learn why I was a codependent, "BPD step mother & alcoholic absent father" has set me up in part to be attracted to these type of r/s. I have since have gone through a tremendous amount of therapy to learn why & how to avoid it again and to search for a better r/s.

I've been told & taught & read that bringing up therapy or insisting on it or asking them if they've taken their meds is never a good idea. BPD is like being an alcoholic, you CAN'T force them to go. THEY have to WANT to go & seek out help on their own or it's NEVER going to work.  I would however encourage YOU to seek out a good therapist for YOUR OWN peace of mind to help you sort through your own thoughts, feelings, emotions in regards to this BPD r/s.  YOU need to learn to set YOUR OWN boundaries and how to enforce the consequences for someone stepping over and or breaking those boundaries.  This is a key part in any r/s much less one that involves someone having BPD.

Example, if you've read anything on this site or listen to your therapist, a BPD will keep more then one r/s, a main and one or more back-ups or standby's.  Once the replacement in the main r/s starts to get painted black the BPD will look for another replacement & start to paint them white. My exBPDgf had told me more than once about how her therapist could write a book on her sex triangles.  She was dating my replacement and sexting me, then called me. in the beginning I played along. But after some reenforcement therapy, I put down a boundary.

The next time she sexted me or called me for sexual conversation, I told her I was rather uncomfortable with the situation and that she should be having this conversation with her bf.  She tried to continue the conversation and I again enforced the boundary by telling her, "This is a conversation YOU should be having with "XXX"", I think I need to go, I miss you but I can't and won't be a part of any triangle again. It hurts to much", and with that I told her, if things change, you can call me.   

Less than an hour later she told me she had broken up with him and wanted to know if she could call me.  Now YOU seem to be a pretty smart person, would you believe her in this situation?  Yeah I didn't either, needless to say, that night didn't end well.  I set boundaries, I maintained them AND the MOST important part of boundaries, I maintained the consequences of breaking the boundary. I refused to talk to her as long as she was seeing someone else, I don't play the bf roulette game, to many consequences to it.

My point, is that they will continue to "insist" on being friends with an ex to maintain a steady back up of those who will feed their need even though they INSIST you drop all contact with any ex gf, spouse, etc so that they are the only one. In fact, during one of her more "lucid, clear head moments" we were having a conversation and I asked her if I maintained contact with my ex would she be ok with it and she said, "NO".  I then I asked her why then should I agree with your request if it's not good enough for me to do the same thing? She couldn't come up with a good answer.

In fact, she told me more then once, "I love you", "You need to know that I love you". I asked her, "What does that mean to you", her response, "Good questions, I'm not really sure".  She told me more than once she was "broken" which seems to be a common theme  within the forums here.  ANNND from a medical aspect she and others who suffer from the Cluster B Mental Illness of BPD are actually broken, physically & mentally. YOU need to know there is NO cure for BPD and the BEST anyone can hope for is some level of "MANAGEMENT" of their behavior.  Which means they might continue the behavior they currently have, or they might be able to "MANAGE" it to a degree. But don't be fooled or hold out false hope. Again my exBPDgf has been in & out of therapy with very, VERY highly educated professional mental health experts for 25 plus years and still has behavior that is unexceptable to me, her ex-husband X 2, and numerous bf's.  I was very arrogantly uneducated in the BPD lifestyle, what made me think I could succeed where mental health professionals had failed.

A BPD will say or do whatever they need to in order to justify how they see the situation in THEIR eyes, regardless what you say. I started out with small boundaries and saw SOME success in it, but it was short lived and it was a small boundary.  Again the bottom line is that THEY will justify anything they need to if it, "FEEDS THEIR NEEDS" regardless of who it might hurt or the consequences of their actions.

My guidance to you is to seek out a REALLY good therapist who is very well educated in BPD/Codependent r/s and start to understand why you are attracted to someone who has BPD. You might not like what you find C1, but trust me, if you are to move forward in life and find a healthy r/s, it's the key to it all.  And nothing but good can come from that.

J

Thank you JQ for your detailed response. I appreciate you sharing your story.

I am at the edge right now. I am experiencing so much pain than I should for her to maintain a friendship with this replacement and seriously questioning whether I should and could take this any longer. I feel so disrespected. However, she has convinced me though that this is only a friendship and I need to learn to trust her which she wants to work on with me. So if we can learn and grow from the mistakes we both made, while her having the friend around, that could work too. As long as she shows she's trying to change in regards to OUR r/s.


Right now she sees me as her gf while in my mind I see her as my ex still or I still kind of call her my ex to my friends. I have built up resentment and not really as  keen calling her my gf even though we are trying to work things out and we are only seeing each other right now.

UPDATE surprisingly she has agreed to couples therapy. She told me that I pick the therapist and she will go with me otherwise we can spend as much or as little time together as I see fit.

IDEALLY I'd want her to do DBT individually. While I see a T separately since people are saying that works best for pwBPD.

I told her I was worried (which I am) because of what happened in the past so when she said she'll go with me if I pick a T is that in her mind it's more about me than it is about her. She is just going with and supporting me, most probably is why she is agreeing. I told her I get suddenly sad some of the time when I think of when we abandoned each other and she tells me to get better soon and she hopes I grieve healthily. I think that if I gave her an ultimatum or told her to go get therapy because she still has BPD and didn't cure it like she said last time, she will  be just as defensive as my first attempt to get her to try therapy herself.

Nothing really bad has happened so far for me to pinpoint to my ex, see this is why we need therapy. Sometimes I think I should wait for the time I can be like see this is why I think you have BPD but that isn't the point I know. They have to want to change and compromise...

I have read some books on BPD and been regularly reading this support board when we were broken up ... but now back together.

I know I am walking on eggshells. I didn't fully disclose to her that the reason we are doing T is because of her BPD behaviours but of course mostly working as a team and her learning some self awareness as an individual (I hope), and of course me learning to cope based on my own issues.

I don't know if I can bring it up at some point or hope that a T from couples therapy would be able to diagnose her (she is not diagnosed but lots of her exes suspect BPD and so do I. Either way something is very wrong). Of course they probably won't diagnose her during our sessions but I hope that by telling the T I suspect BPD or picking a T who has dealt with BPD before and is good will be able to pick it up somehow, hopefully. I'm afraid of the possiblity nobody could because my ex is probably good at being sane/reasonable to strangers. I don't know what possible alternatives are good besides DBT for BPD if you have any suggestions? I will try and research and look around my area what might at least make things a little better for us both or help us gain something to make our r/s alittle bit better than it is.
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Curiously1
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 390


« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2016, 01:01:08 PM »

if you've read anything on this site or listen to your therapist, a BPD will keep more then one r/s, a main and one or more back-ups or standby's. Once the replacement in the main r/s starts to get painted black the BPD will look for another replacement & start to paint them white. My exBPDgf had told me more than once about how her therapist could write a book on her sex triangles.  She was dating my replacement and sexting me, then called me. in the beginning I played along. But after some reenforcement therapy, I put down a boundary.

My gf... wrote on her twitter she regretted her decision in breaking up with me thinking I wasn't neurotypical enough. We tried to be friends for a couple of weeks but then I removed myself because I couldn't do it anymore. By then she was out trying to date other new people and the replacement that didn't work out (lasted only 2 weeks) still remained in the wings as her friend.

I don't think the replacement was necessarily painted black or else why would she be friendzoned and still have value for my gf as a friend? They were aquaintances when I first met the girl and then yes the friendship since they met. My only guess is the friend is a max dose of ego-boost and a safety net because she'd doubtful about our relationship. Why? This girl is obsessed with my gf, has severe depression and is suicidal and that's kind of stuff isn't very appealing and my gf couldn't handle all the replacement's issues. But at the same time the friend treats her like a diva I suppose and is a very 'safe' person that agrees with her a lot I guess (even when the friend is hurt she still agrees for the sake of pleasing her). The replacement told me that my gf said she already told ther that she cannot be with her because if they did stay together the relationship would be one-sided and abusive.


My point, is that they will continue to "insist" on being friends with an ex to maintain a steady back up of those who will feed their need even though they INSIST you drop all contact with any ex gf, spouse, etc so that they are the only one. In fact, during one of her more "lucid, clear head moments" we were having a conversation and I asked her if I maintained contact with my ex would she be ok with it and she said, "NO".  I then I asked her why then should I agree with your request if it's not good enough for me to do the same thing? She couldn't come up with a good answer.

My gf also recently told me she regretted sleeping with her friend and wished they just stayed as friends. I asked my gf is she felt she owed the replacement anything but she said no and that she enjoys her company but only in small doses. The replacement has 0 friends and perhaps my gf pities her to some extent or can relate to the replacement's pain and suffering? She insists I learn to trust her.

My gf agreed that she only slept with her friend because we were in conflict at the time, and she saw the friend as all good and she felt I neglected her or that she wasn't good enough for me. And then when she broke up with me, she just gave her a try and hoped she'd forget about how much she felt worthless and not good enough for me. The friend also told me that my gf told her couldn't guarantee she could truly return her feelings back. The replacement is mentally ill too and told me that relationships = pain and all she knows is pain so she's used to it therefore chooses to stay and please my gf by being the best friend she'll ever have that will always have her back even if she is in the wrong. The replacement reminded me that if anything bad happens to my gf and I then yes, she will take my gfs side. She tries to gain sympathy from me too by saying she has no friends and then asking my permission to be my gfs friend or else she'll disappear and make my gf hate her. It's really immature.

my gf said she could never love her and hopes the friend finds happiness one day and gets the help she needs so I assume that my gf just made a mistake and chose to run away than to really work on good communication with me and project that something was wrong with me as an excuse to see if her friend could make her happier.

At this stage it's still a triangle. Even if it's platonic I feel uncomfortable about the friend. The friend feels uncomfortable and bitter about me getting back with my gf. Were both tolerating the arrangement. And my gf has the benefit of both of us and secretly loves the jealousy and drama for sure.

She believes what happened to us was a self-fulfilling prophecy. At least she reflected a bit. She said to me that she assumed I was seeing many other girls while she had just me and felt undesirable and that insecurity made her sabotage things than to believe anything I had to say that opposed that belief she had about feeling worthless.

I know for a fact that my gf would not tolerate me being friends with exes or persons I used to sleep with. She said she was contented and satisfied and then I effed up which is partly true. I made our r/s open which was a mistake of mine and regret and she always wanted to be monogamous with me hence the feeling she wasn't good enough which never ends. She still tells me that one day I might get bored of her and I have to reassure her etc. But once that was settled and were back to being monogamous of course, she can do whatever she pleases. My gf also cannot come up with a good reason for keeping friends she used to sleep with other than me needing to stop being so insecure and to trust that she cares about me because she is with me. If I ask her why she loves me she'll say it's not describable and she just knows or that it's unconditional and it doesn't need to be proven, it's just there and I need to believe that's how she feels.

She told me more than once she was "broken" which seems to be a common theme  within the forums here.  ANNND from a medical aspect she and others who suffer from the Cluster B Mental Illness of BPD are actually broken, physically & mentally.  YOU need to know there is NO cure for BPD and the BEST anyone can hope for is some level of "MANAGEMENT" of their behavior.  Which means they might continue the behavior they currently have, or they might be able to "MANAGE" it to a degree. But don't be fooled or hold out false hope. Again my exBPDgf has been in & out of therapy with very, VERY highly educated professional mental health experts for 25 plus years and still has behavior that is unexceptable to me, her ex-husband X 2, and numerous bf's.  I was very arrogantly uneducated in the BPD lifestyle, what made me think I could succeed where mental health professionals had failed.

Once time before we broke up when my gf was being vulnerable she told me she is broken too. She even wrote poetry about how empty she feels inside and who would put up with her etc. So I know that deep down there are some core issues.

I also feel like my gf is limited by her BPD traits. The whole blaming of others and not taking responsbility. There are times where I feel as if she understands and she can communicate well but that's only if she hasn't done something wrong. Like if the issue is relating to her then she will get defensive of course. She can understand others quite well and is nice to talk to or you feel better if you vent to her but yes, if it's about her it's the complete opposite and I hope that I can find a way to make things better for us. But realistically, because she is ill and I can't have false hope you're right.

A BPD will say or do whatever they need to in order to justify how they see the situation in THEIR eyes, regardless what you say. I started out with small boundaries and saw SOME success in it, but it was short lived and it was a small boundary.  Again the bottom line is that THEY will justify anything they need to if it, "FEEDS THEIR NEEDS" regardless of who it might hurt or the consequences of their actions.

My guidance to you is to seek out a REALLY good therapist who is very well educated in BPD/Codependent r/s and start to understand why you are attracted to someone who has BPD. You might not like what you find C1, but trust me, if you are to move forward in life and find a healthy r/s, it's the key to it all.  And nothing but good can come from that.

J

This is one of the worst parts of accepting your partner having BPD. Regardless of who gets hurt, as long as it feeds a need, hurt can be a consequence of the actions they take and my gf hurts so many people like the replacement that is pining for her and of course me for just simply justifying how she sees things and flipping my perspective to sound as if I am doing something wrong, or that I shouldn't feel the way I feel about certain things and that I need to take her needs into account regardless of my discomfort.

I am attracted to my gfs brutal honesty and childlike qualities, how affectionate and incredibly fun and loving when she can be and I admire her intelligence in many subjects (not emotional intelligence,  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)). To me she I feel like we're a pretty good pair, it's just the extra BPD stuff attached to her that makes her more difficult to deal with.
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