What Do You Do When...

[Rock Chick]

What do you do when someone in your life with severe BPD (amongst other things) starts getting addicted to and abuses the meds that their primary care doctor or another doctor at same place primary is prescribes? Is there anything those of us in the BPDs life can do like a family member can do? Should we alert the BPDs doctor or psychologist and how like what do we do? My bf's mother last week went to the doctors after complaining about back pain that started as soon as she woke up that morning and saying she could hardly move or get out of bed. My bf took her to the doctors and they were there for awhile. The doctor she saw said she has back spasms and arthritis but he is not her primary and doesn't know her history. She has always complained about how many pills she already takes and says she feels like a druggie and doesn't want to take anymore. Yet she is all for taking as many pills as the doctor prescribed for the supposed spasms and arthritis. You don't just wake up one morning and get either of them. They show up over time or so I have been lead to believe. Everything she described and my bf told me sounds more like she has now become full blown diabetic and what she felt was her kidneys having issue and anything else effected by diabetes. My grandpa when he was still alive had the same pain and issues she has and so he went in to doctors and thats when he found out he was diabetic and things were caused by this. So I think her telling us she is gonna pretend she doesn't have diabetes or whatever is right before full blown diabetic has caught up to her. Her sugar levels or whatever call it have been threw the roof staying mostly esp lately in the 300 to 400 range. She doesn't eat healthy, her hygiene is awful, she eats loads of sugary fatty greasy etc foods/drinks, smokes and she doesn't get up and do really anything and she is overweight (wears like 3x to 4x in shirts etc). So one med she try to say that she was supposed to take it every 3 hours and the other one could take as needed. Well I didn't believe about the every 3 hrs so I looked at the bottle and it said she is supposed to take up to 3 times a day as needed which means she can take up to 3 NOT every 3 hrs. So she is still taking every 3 and gosh idk how many of the other med. She said other day they aren't working that well. Now today she is acting weird and forgetful and thought my boyfriend was still at work when it was like 8pm at night and he worked from 6am to 10am that day and then when he got home from my house tonight things said to me about her were very concerning. I think she is addicted to meds. I wish the doctor would of looked at her history and seen she has a history of abusing alcohol and drugs (rather prescribed or not and when in her life she did things. she was into drug abusing 7 yrs ago a lot and i think since then off and on either not taking meds when supposed to, not taking them at all or taking too much). Is her not following doctors words of how to take like a form of self harm? Idk maybe thats thinking too much idk. Sorry for long ramble. Just dunno what to do and why things are etc. Any help advice etc be greatly appreciated.

[P.F.Change]

Hi, RockChick,

I can see why you're concerned about your mom. Prescription painkiller addiction is often kind of an "accidental" addiction and it happens to a lot of people. They have real pain but develop a tolerance for the medication, and have to take more and more to notice any change in their symptoms. I don't think this is intentional self-harm, but if she's taking them every 3 hours instead of every 8, that is very concerning. That is something she needs to tell her doctor. Too high a dose can have negative effects on major organs, especially over long periods of time, and it will also mean the drugs will lose effectiveness and she will feel she needs to take even more. I think you're right to be concerned about her.

Because of confidentiality laws, it may not be possible your mother's doctor or pharmacist to discuss those concerns with you or your BF, unless she has signed a consent in advance. It might be possible for your boyfriend to bring it up with them, but they wouldn't be able to even confirm she's their patient, and would probably have to tell her he called them. It sounds like she might prefer to be able to take fewer pills and feels "like a druggie," so that might be a good place to start a conversation with her. The two of you might ask if she would be willing to have your boyfriend accompany her to visit the doctor as support, and to ask questions about ways to help her feel better.

Wishing you peace,

PF

[HappyChappy]

Hi Rock Chick,

This must be very worrying for you. Addiction to painkillers does happen. But from what you’ve been told, sounds like this is a matter for your mother in law’s Dr. or whomever is responsible for prescribing. In the UK this is the GP in local practice. Others can’t prescribe beyond an emergency amount without access to your records.  If someone doesn’t follow the prescribed amounts, this should be picked up when they re-order. There will be a safety system in place. You could ask primary care what the safety mechanism are, that’s not patient specific info, and it might put your mind at rest.

I’m guessing unless she buys on-line from Canada, her medication will be monitored. From a Dr’s point of view they are so liable to legal action, they’d do take this seriously. Hope that helps.

[P.F.Change]

I’m guessing unless she buys on-line from Canada, her medication will be monitored. From a Dr’s point of view they are so liable to legal action, they’d do take this seriously. Hope that helps.

This is somewhat true in the US as well. As far as I know, there's no master database, but pharmacists and doctors do communicate with each other if they think someone may be trying to get their hands on too many pills. Sometimes it does take a while for them to catch on, especially when the patient is using multiple pharmacies or multiple doctors, but once someone notices they tell the other area professionals.

[Rock Chick]

Prescription painkiller addiction is often kind of an "accidental" addiction and it happens to a lot of people. They have real pain but develop a tolerance for the medication, and have to take more and more to notice any change in their symptoms. I don't think this is intentional self-harm, but if she's taking them every 3 hours instead of every 8, that is very concerning. That is something she needs to tell her doctor. Too high a dose can have negative effects on major organs, especially over long periods of time, and it will also mean the drugs will lose effectiveness and she will feel she needs to take even more. I think you're right to be concerned about her. Because of confidentiality laws, it may not be possible your mother's doctor or pharmacist to discuss those concerns with you or your BF, unless she has signed a consent in advance. It might be possible for your boyfriend to bring it up with them, but they wouldn't be able to even confirm she's their patient, and would probably have to tell her he called them. It sounds like she might prefer to be able to take fewer pills and feels "like a druggie," so that might be a good place to start a conversation with her. The two of you might ask if she would be willing to have your boyfriend accompany her to visit the doctor as support, and to ask questions about ways to help her feel better.

Yes I am very concerned and worried about my boyfriends mother. I am even more worried and concerned because she has a history of addiction to and abusing illegal drugs, alcohol, cigarettes/cigars, gambling, etc.  I believe that this pain she is experiencing is due to her becoming full blown diabetic because she does not manage her diabetes at all. She still eats in excess everything a diabetic should not things that make you get numbers that go reallllllllllllly high or dangerously low etc. Yes she is taking the pills every 3 hours instead of 3 pills in 24 hrs. She also wants to take more than the 1 pill each time of each med. She will never tell her doctor what she is doing and will deny what she is doing if confronted. I have read up on the effects of taking too high of doses and more than doctor prescribes. It can be fatal taking too much of either. I wish she would of been to see her primary care doctor instead of someone that had an appt time available. Her doctor may have not prescribed what this guy did. The laws I think are really both good and bad. She wont sign a form unless we can figure a way to trick her for lack of better words. Before she started taking these meds I wrote about here we had numerous discussions with her about amount of pills and her always saying she feels like a druggie cuz she takes so many pills in her mind. We had this discussion for almost a yr cuz her primary wants her to see a psychiatrist and she wont get the ball rolling on that and do that so she can get on right meds for her supposed bipolar etc. He goes with her to appts almost every time and most times goes into appt with her. It just sucks she is way she is and wont do what doctor says and take care of herself etc. I'm still on the fence about intentional and non intentional self harm behavior with how she is being with these 2 meds. She has made one kinda joking comment and 2 minor comments about not wanting to be here. She has also done some self harm stuff here and there not cutting but other things that are considered self harm.

[Rock Chick]

This must be very worrying for you. Addiction to painkillers does happen. But from what you’ve been told, sounds like this is a matter for your mother in law’s Dr. or whomever is responsible for prescribing. In the UK this is the GP in local practice. Others can’t prescribe beyond an emergency amount without access to your records.  If someone doesn’t follow the prescribed amounts, this should be picked up when they re-order. There will be a safety system in place. You could ask primary care what the safety mechanism are, that’s not patient specific info, and it might put your mind at rest. I’m guessing unless she buys on-line from Canada, her medication will be monitored. From a Dr’s point of view they are so liable to legal action, they’d do take this seriously. Hope that helps.

Another doctor at the doctors office her primary doctor works at saw her because her doctor didnt have an appt that day. He prescribed the 2 meds one for back spasms and one for supposed arthritis. I am hoping she doesnt have any refills on this med. I am thinking probably not because my boyfriend told me that the doctor said to make an appt if things didnt get better and meds run out. When she went to the checkout counter there where u pay and make appts the lady asked if she like to make an appt and she refused to. She does not buy from online as she does not go online other then when my bf sets up his computer to go to facebook and she plays wizard of oz slots game on there. 

[Rock Chick]

Update:

She called her doctors office and spoke to her doctors nurse about a week ago. She told them she needs something more for the pain as the 2 meds she was on either dont work at all or only partly (the supposed arthritis and back spasms that just spontaneously appeared one day a few weeks ago and are not the result of an injury etc that a doctor that is not her primary and doesn't know her history gave her after seeing her once). The nurse said the doctor would give her Norco enough for 12 days and said that is it. They can't give her anything else. What's alarming is... .1)she is most the time not taking the meds as directed 2) she is begging for more meds/give her her pills like every hour to every 3 or 4 hrs 3) she has picked up drinking alcohol again and drinking a fair amount of alcohol to a lot on 2 occasions since taking norco (try hiding this by doing when slept or we went out for a lil while) 4)she is self harming 5)getting into cars with strangers to get alcohol 6) begging for and borrowing money from strangers/ppl she doesn't know well. We are still feeling so helpless and we are soo worried. Do we just let her continue to harm herself and do things that will lead to her death? Or can we do anything and what can we do?

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Rock Chick,

I can definitely see why you are concerned about your bf's mother. It sounds like she is 'self soothing' in such a way that is or could be potentially very harmful. I can see how much you care for her and for the relationship you have with your bf. 

I agree with HappyChappy and PFChang that there are ways that the pharmacist's and doctor's can follow a patient's use of medications and thus follow up. I work at a family medicine office in the US. Doctor's have the ability to track the medicine prescribed and filled through a report they can run. If a physician is prescribing controlled medications such as she is taking, by law they are required to run this report at least 2 times a year. This can help to show abuse of any sort.

In addition to that, drug screens are also recommended on a regular basis. The pharmacies frequently call us to let us know that the patient just had medication "A" filled on such a day. ':)o we want to allow this new script to be filled since they cannot legally fill again before the original script is due?' is the frequent question we receive. Thus they protect themselves and we are alerted to any potential abuse going on. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to catch up to the abusers, but we eventually do. They know how to work the system, and sadly not all doctor's follow this protocol. Just know that there are checks and balances in place. It may take some time though.

While she is not taking care of herself the way we would hope she would do, are you able to step back and let her make these choices, as hard as it is to watch? I recall some training that my DH received as he prepared to volunteer in an area where there was a lot of abuse of all sorts going on. They told him something that has stuck with me: you can only help someone as much as they want to help themselves. I'm very sorry for the pain and worry that this is most certainly causing you. I can hear it in your posts. It sounds like you are setting your own boundaries though, healthy ones, by not stepping in to assist her in her unhealthy choices. Kudos to you! 



Wools

[Rock Chick]

While she is not taking care of herself the way we would hope she would do, are you able to step back and let her make these choices, as hard as it is to watch? I recall some training that my DH received as he prepared to volunteer in an area where there was a lot of abuse of all sorts going on. They told him something that has stuck with me: you can only help someone as much as they want to help themselves. I'm very sorry for the pain and worry that this is most certainly causing you. I can hear it in your posts. It sounds like you are setting your own boundaries though, healthy ones, by not stepping in to assist her in her unhealthy choices. Kudos to you!

Ya I am def. not assisting her in her unhealthy choices. If she doesnt want to bath at all or not very often then she has to deal with the consequences of her choice... .that may mean ppl outside of the apartment making fun of her, family sitting on other side the room or not coming to visit, her getting health issues because of choice, etc etc. It's just a lil harder to deal with when it's something like not managing her diabetes (i now what sugar levels high and low do to someone and all other stuff associated with being diabetic), mixing pills and drinks, self harming and worse. I can deal with other stuff its her choice but stuff mentioned is rough. It's like watching a car crash from just before happens and while it happens... .you know its gonna happen and you know there is gonna be damage and injuries and worse and there is. She really is becoming more and more a harm/danger to herself and I'm worried if drinking continues  and doesnt get help for BPD etc she will do something to harm others and if she doesnt get other things in check will too.

[Rock Chick]

Update:
"Suzie" is drinking again and to the point of being drunk drunk. She also cut herself a lot. We don't know how she got the alcohol because she has no money to get the alcohol nor to get to any place that sells it as the state says until she pays fines and does a few other things she is not allowed to drive due to past incidents that got her into legal issues etc. So she either stole money got alcohol or got a stranger to do so/give her alcohol/buy her alcohol (rather that stranger was a neighbor, customer at a store or some cashier doing illegal stuff by letting her use her food card to buy alcohol,etc). This isnt the only time this has happened this yr. its not even the 2nd or 3rd time. Although this time things happened today after she did what she did she called her primary care doctors office and her docs ppl had an ambulance pick her up and take her to the ER (rather she was willing to go or not). She is telling everyone and anyone who will listen professional or not that her choices she made the drinking cutting etc is all her son and my fault that we made her do it and its all our fault. She has been suffering from a lot of distorted thinking/views/etc and more lately. She esp. this yr and lately has conversations with herself outloud and even talks to and at non living stuff like tvs and more. She says its fine as long as she doesnt answer herself but what she doesnt realize is she does answer herself some of the time and it's not just her talking outloud. She seems to be on a downwards spiral and because of laws and how she is we cant do anything and our helpless. We are still trying to have boundaries, lean on each other for support, etc but it just really sucks to have all this stuff mentioned and more be apart of every second of our lives, unable to help her and we cant at this time totally escape things/her til things improve for my bf (BPD's son) and myself. I thank everyone who has already posted. I just wanted to update everyone and ask anyone else who hasnt posted yet if they have been in a similar situation how did they handle it what did they do and their thoughts etc. Thanks for letting me express n vent things it def. helps and thanks for all the support.

[Naughty Nibbler]

ROCK CHICK:
So sorry about the situation with "Suzie".  People can get inventive with ways to get high.  

She is telling everyone and anyone who will listen professional or not that her choices she made the drinking cutting etc is all her son and my fault that we made her do it and its all our fault.

The "blame game" is something people with BPD tend to do, so try to not take is personal.  :)id she elaborate with any details about how she thinks you and your partner "made her do it"?

She esp. this yr and lately has conversations with herself outloud and even talks to and at non living stuff like tvs and more. She says its fine as long as she doesnt answer herself but what she doesnt realize is she does answer herself some of the time and it's not just her talking outloud. She seems to be on a downwards spiral and because of laws and how she is we cant do anything and our helpless.

Has your partner been able to discuss his mom's case with her doctors?  I'm wondering if she has some mental conditions beyond BPD.  

Is she hospitalized at the current time or back home?

[Rock Chick]

Naughty Nibbler,

I'm really not taking her "blame game" too personally. My only issue or worry with this latest incident is what the ppl she tells will think and do with the information she gives them and will they believe her lies. 

He has been super busy working two jobs but I know when he has tried to talk to his mothers doctor before the doctors ppl said that they cant share anything about her. We have voiced concern over some her behavior with her psychologist but again he couldn't tell us anything other than when we brought up her inappropriate behavior n comments to tell her its not okay and to stop and that the behavior possibly comes from impulsivity. If I was one of the top 500 richest in world I'd bet most my fortune that she has mental conditions beyond BPD and i'd bet that at least 3 conditions of all stuff has would be npd/covert npd, hpd and dpd on top of the BPD.

No she is not still hospitalized. She was sent home sometime after 6pm and before 10:30 pm that same day.

[Naughty Nibbler]

My only issue or worry with this latest incident is what the ppl she tells will think and do with the information she gives them and will they believe her lies. 

ROCK CHICK:
I'm thinking that her psychologist should be able to attribute her lies to her condition.  From your previous post, you are probably right in thinking that she has more than BPD issues. 

I'd prepare for the worst and hope for the best.  Just protect yourself and stay safe.  Might want to document some things and keep a journal.  People who are paranoid will tend to think everyone is stealing things from them. Substance abuse complicates the situation.  The police generally check their record of previous responses to a given address and will consider history in handling complaints.

Probably the only thing your partner can do is try and get a medical power of attorney (POA) for his mother, should she qualify as being mentally incompetent to make medical decisions.  That might be a conversation to have with her psychologist (or psychiatrist), if only to ask for input should they believe that a POA is indicated.

Are you and your partner working on a plan to get your own place, or is there any chance to move in with a relative or friend and perhaps rent a room?

[Rock Chick]

Naughty Nibbler,
But question is can her psychologist (anyone working at an ER or doctors office or police and some strangers elsewhere) tell when she is lying or will he (they) believe her lies? Will he see what my bf, her primary (who agrees BPD) and I see which is a minimum she has BPD or will he (they) not see BPD n BPD behavior at all. He has only been seeing her since I think May but I could be wrong. I would love to know what other issues she has more than BPD and what issues she has are they ones I have suspected all along or something completely different. It kinda be nice to know if she was an cluster a pd for various reasons.

I'd prepare for the worst and hope for the best.  Just protect yourself and stay safe.  Might want to document some things and keep a journal.  People who are paranoid will tend to think everyone is stealing things from them. Substance abuse complicates the situation.  The police generally check their record of previous responses to a given address and will consider history in handling complaints.

That's kinda what we are doing. We are trying to protect ourselves best we can but it's really hard to keep things up when you are dealing with her. I was thinking about keeping a diary of things and have wrote stuff here and there. I almost made a post here awhile back asking what ppls thoughts were on keeping a diary on someone who is severely BPD and if its even worth it and ask how it help if needed it in future etc. She has had issues with law before, DUIs, etc.

Whats bad about the power of attorney thing is I think unless I'm wrong that his mother would have to sign it too? She will never sign it she will refuse she has before. I really do think she is incompetent for various reasons. Guess I should google what is considered mentally incompetent to make medical decisions etc qualificationso r whatever. Unless someone here has a good link esp. for state of MI what have to do.

There is def. no chance to move in with a relative both sides of his family are pretty dysfunctional esp. his mothers side whom wants nothing to do really with my bf his mom etc cuz of his mom. No realatives of mine be to help. My parents cant let him move in cuz of my sister still living in the house and she has ptsd BPD bipolar was raped etc and since got all that and bad things happened to her she wont let guys stay at house and parent follow along with it. No friends can help they all live other side state or out of state mostly. He hasnt lived in this state all his life so its not like he has life long friends that are here that can help. We are trying to make plans to get him his own place but money is an issue. He is working two jobs now and its not really enough for rent, bills, etc. esp. when like with apartments they want you to make triple what rent is and for homes they want 10 or 15 or 25 thousands down/a percentage etc. Ugh I hate that life has to be so hard not saying it has to be the easiest of easy but dang .