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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: When the kids are almost grown up...  (Read 449 times)
sanemom
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« on: June 04, 2016, 09:24:16 AM »

I am pondering this in my head for future.  I am sure that the stepkids will start making some pretty bad decisions as they are still strongly influenced by the masterful manipulations of their BPD mom.  Financially, I am already hearing stories of borrowing a lot of money, quitting a job before having another, having overdraft fees, etc. 

On one hand, I do believe that they are just going to have to learn some things the hard way.  On the other hand, I don't want to be portrayed (by BPD mom) as the parents who don't care because we won't "bail them out", so to speak. 

Any thoughts on this?  I know some of you have the older stepkids already.
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Sunfl0wer
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2016, 09:39:00 AM »

Maybe this is random, and I do not have (older)step kids... .

Can you find a memorable positive way to be involved?

My son is adult age and he loves playing the game CashFlow with me.  (Yet, he is a nerdy type and not all would have patience to enjoy this game)

I have taken him to the bank with me when discussing important financial matters such as opening account, opening credit card, etc.

I made him in charge of some of he houshold bills even though I supply the money for them.  (Yes, we were left in the dark right before Thanksgiving... .Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)! Yet I am certain this will never happen again!). The point is that he is learning how to build his credit, he can check CreditKarma himself and such, I usually will remind him.  It sort of turns into a fun discussion as we chat on how to improve our score and he is proud of efforts he makes and we compare scores and actions that have impacted our score.

I can understand how we often can be portrayed as the bad guy for not bailing a kid out vs allowing them to endure the consequences.

However, I wonder if you can find ways to make a lasting/memorable positive impression for some of the values you are trying to convey?  
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ambivalentmom
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2016, 09:41:34 AM »

My uBPDex was awful in the past with money.  He never paid back the money he borrowed from D13 savings account (he borrowed about 4k when she was 3~4yo) and I also ended up going to court and winning 6 years back child support because he tried to lie to me about the amount he was supposed to pay monthly.  I would now describe his relationship with our daughter as the bad boyfriend you hope they outgrow and learn from.  I'll bet this is right in line with your DH's ex.

My D13 has a debit card that will not allow overdraft and automatically gives her allowance every two weeks (available for ages 12 and up).  She has to buy her own gaming cards/toys/etc. and we buy her b-day/Christmas presents.  I still buy her random little things I think she might like, but there is a huge difference in the way she treats those things vs. what she buys with her money. 

When I talk finances, I told her the debit card and the penalty is age appropriate, which is putting things back if she can't afford it.  I tell her I want to buy things for her, but I am doing more good by getting her used to using her own money and remembering her card/pin number (kinda' funny because I'm putting the cash in her card for her allowance).  I told her in a few years, she will switch to credit card to build credit.  She has been to a couple of finance classes and I made her a proposed budget on Excel Spreadsheet for when she's 16, with her income/expenses/savings.

Advice about money is over-generalized and in her best interest.  Her budget shows end of the year savings if she sticks with it.  I told her it's best to have a thrifty mindset to save money and so no one asks for money (friends or relatives), only loan money if you would be willing to never see that money again, don't buy big purchases without sleeping on it, and don't spend money you don't have (exceptions being house, car, college).  If she mentions differences in her dad's style, then I just say there are many different choices adults can make, but you will eventually have to decide what's best for yourself.  Just like the bad boyfriend, I can't criticize his choices/mention him first or D13 will shut down and not want to talk to me.

While I don't know the step parent side, I would like to suggest clumping the kids together with age appropriate advice/activities (8DS and 11DSS)(13DD, 13DSS, and 14DSD) so the stepkids can actually see that they are getting the advice and treatment about finances the same as your biokids.  I'll bet you already are, but worth mentioning, mentor by making smart, healthy financial choices.  Eventually, they will see which parent they would rather go to for advice. 
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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2016, 04:53:38 PM »

Our church puts on classes "Financial Peace University". It's based on Dave Ramsey's financial plan. I use a lot of what he teaches in my own finances, maybe there could be a class like that for the kids to take?
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2016, 05:25:54 PM »

We have been VERY intentional about teaching the kids this stuff... .especially through the teens.  SD16 is still young, but I am feeling pretty good about her abilities.

When she shoplifted while with BPD mom, DH told her he would not pay the bill, but that he loved and supported her, helped her get a job so she could pay off the debt.  Never judged, held her accountable.

Instead of buying her a car, we donated into a bank account on which we are co-signors, that is available to her once she has a job.

We ask the kids for their solutions to problems caused by dropping the ball in ways their mom does.

We own our part in mistakes and conflicts--"Wow, I am really sorry I forgot to do that!" --to counteract mom's lack of willingness to be accountable.

Mostly, we just try hard not to judge and not to rescue.

I think that mom's bad parenting can cut both ways.  On the one hand, it models a pretty destructive way of being in the world.  On the other, it means the kids have to be that much more responsible at her home, so they have more life skills.

Finally, I cannot tell you how much of a difference it has made to teach them basic communication skills, like non-violent communication.  The kids KNOW from experience that it works better to say "I am feeling really angry right now. Can we negotiate about that later?" instead of screaming insults at a person in the way mom does.  They can also hear others' reasonable communication better, too.  This makes them responsive and responsible in a way their mom just is not.  They are not emotionally unable to connect in the way their mom is, so they naturally want to be responsible. 

I have a lot of faith in people's willingness to choose an approach that just feels better.  As long as we avoid polarizing, so our view seems oppressive, too--I think we just offer something that works better.  My SDs choose that way whenever they are not right with their mom.  They just do.  So I have learned to have faith.
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NorthernGirl
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2016, 12:41:32 PM »

Hi sanemom - I am a stepmom with 3 older stepsons - 26, 24 and 21. They are all very different, and their relationship with DH and uBPDmom are also different. We have just been updating our wills, so have had lots of discussions about finances, etc. This might be more info than you need so ignore whatever isn't relevant.

SS26 is close to DH and lived with him or us after the divorce. He is headed to law school this fall. He has had another recent attack from his mom - who blames him for her problems. He's her All Bad child. He has received little financial support from his mom for years. We have connected him with our financial advisor to help him plan for finishing school. He's okay and finances and has learned we'll help him a little when he is working hard. Unfortunately what SS26 doesn't yet have is counselling - he has long refused to see a T from the days where his mom dragged the family to counselling and pointed the finger at DH and SS26 saying they needed to be fixed.

The L doing our wills says SS26 is most likely to get the 'short end of the stick' when we die so we look for ways to support him now.

SS24 is an addict in denial. Long enmeshed with his Mom, he looks to her constantly to bail him out. She rewards his loyalty to her with gifts and cash. He doesn't have any support network or positive coping skills. He drinks/uses to cope. We think he may be sober but are never sure. He is living in his mom's condo - she moved back to her parents after the guardianship hearing for SS21 but lets SS24 live there. He has a minimum wage job and says he plans to go to college this fall. Years ago DH and I worked with SS24's counsellors to find the balance between 'helping' and 'enabling' - we have long said we wouldn't pay off his drug debts. After each treatment program he attended to please his mom, she bought him stuff - a new wardrobe, computer, etc. After rescuing him from his relapses, she rewarded him by paying his drug debts and buying him a new cell phone, etc. We consistently say we will pay for counselling and positive supports but he rarely takes us up on that.

DH and his ex had money set aside for college for all the boys. SS24 has used some of this already (dropped out but kept the money). He always seems to have credit card debt. SS26 has used the money for his first degree so will now have to finance his law degree.

The will lawyer says depending on how SS24 is doing at the time of DH's death, this son (likely with his mother's push) might successfully go after more of DH's estate if he is still struggling.

DH is now SS21's sole guardian and trustee. Both DH and his ex have some financial obligations to SS21, whose mental capacity will limit his ability to earn more than minimum wage. They already have funds set aside, that DH now administers, helping to save for SS21's future. One thing that came out in the guardianship hearing was uBPD was taking money from SS21's account each month without informing DH (they were joint trustees, so he should have been informed.) No doubt that would have continued had she got sole trusteeship. We have to ensure SS21 has reasonable financial support now and when we die.

The will L says SS21 will likely get the larger portion of funds when both DH and I die. If DH dies first, someone (uBPD) could push to have SS21 instantly receive money, rather than waiting until I die. We are setting up an insurance policy payable to SS21 when DH dies to try to stop any litigation. An extra layer with SS21 and his lack of capacity is that if he were to ever have kids, DH may have financial obligations for the child as well.

And of course the constant issue is what uBPD will do. She has pressured SS24 to call DH to ask for money many times. When he refuses, she says how heartless DH and I are. She has written me scathing emails about this. SS24 has done the same.

DH and I have had many financial discussions about the boys. He feels guilty when it comes to them and would be much quicker to bail them out than me. We've had help from counsellors and financial advisors on this and that has helped, but it will always be an issue.

It is all very complicated so if you have any of these issues, I suggest using whatever supports you have to help you. And don't make decisions based on what BPD mom may or may not say, make them based on what is in the kids' best interests. Sometimes not bailing them out is the best option.
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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2016, 10:42:05 PM »

Our church puts on classes "Financial Peace University". It's based on Dave Ramsey's financial plan. I use a lot of what he teaches in my own finances, maybe there could be a class like that for the kids to take?

This is a good class, and doesn't cost much. I had already learned a lot of it on my own... .by my mid 30s. I wish I had taken it much younger. I disagree with his opinion about the Roth being the best option, but that's a whole other thread in itself.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

I like NorthernGirl's comment: "Sometimes not bailing them out is the best option."

We see parents struggling with this on the Parenting Board.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2016, 11:56:56 AM »

I don't want to be portrayed (by BPD mom) as the parents who don't care because we won't "bail them out", so to speak.  

It sounds like you want to have good boundaries with the kids even as they become adults.

Will BPD mom's portrayal of you have an impact on those boundaries?
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2016, 09:55:26 PM »

A parent can request a free credit report for any minor children (AnnualCreditReport.com) so that they're aware of the liabilities attributed to the children's identities.  It's not uncommon for an unethical parents to commit fraud using the SSN of a minor child, knowing that often family is unaware and also often reluctant to make a fuss about it.
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