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stilinchrist

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
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Hi
« on: June 08, 2016, 05:06:54 PM »

 

im married to the man since 7 years. I just didnt understand it was a personality disorder for so so long. Probably was in some form of naive denial. He is unwilling to go for counselling and therapy. Iv been through cycles of being stable and then reaching peaks of frustration. I really want to be continually stable and unaffected but still dont know how to do it. I feel hurt and used. But i am committed to this marriage and will not leave. I love him and really hope that things may improve. Hope to learn strategies from you guys.
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This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

JQ
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2016, 05:55:32 PM »

Hi Still,

Welcome to the group     I'm glad you found this place, sorry that you had to search for it though.  I would first of all recommend reading some really good things at the top of the page and the references to the side of the page to help you get a better understanding of what you're going through, some of the terms that will be used and most importantly things to learn about yourself.

You have embarked on a difficult journey but know that everyone in the group is here standing right behind you when you stumble on your journey and you will stumble. We will be right here to pick you up, dust you off and then what direction you go is up to you. It always has been.

BPD is a very serious Cluster B Mental illness and the tools here are awesome to learn from. I would also recommend finding a really good therapist that has A LOT experience in BPD/Codpendent r/s to help you sort through you thoughts, feelings and emotions. Most everyone in the group will tell you it's one of the very important key's to success when dealing with someone who is BPD.

We're really anonymous here so feel free to tell us more about your situation and ask the questions you want too. We can't and won't tell you what to do, but the group will give you guidance and help guide you to the answers you search for. 

Come back as often as you need to, as often as you WANT too, someone will be here to hold out a hand and help you up.

J
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waverider
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2016, 04:20:13 AM »

 

It can be overwhelming, and once you discover a face for this disorder there is so much to take in.

Are there any specific aspects of this that are causing you extreme distress?

waverider
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stilinchrist

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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2016, 07:49:16 AM »

Hi again!

I cant explain the relief i feel to be among people who are facing a similar situation from knowing absolutely no one!thank God!

One thing i find the hardest to accept is his lack of boundaries with women... .he has weird inappropriate emotionally involved relationships which cause me a lot of distress. If i tell him what i feel he blows up and starts throwing a tantrum and shouting accusations at me... .iv said it often enough by now... so should i just leave him to his devices or not?

Since its such an important aspect of the relationship i cant seem to make up my mind on my reaction. I suppose telling him not to do it makes him want to do it all the more apart from the pleasure he gets out of it.

Also he is a brilliant actor... .no one could possibly guess the state of his mind... .it has taken me forever and i still get deceived into beleiving he has noble intentions... .do they all play this pretend game outside home?
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waverider
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2016, 09:06:17 AM »

Hi again!

I cant explain the relief i feel to be among people who are facing a similar situation from knowing absolutely no one!thank God!

One thing i find the hardest to accept is his lack of boundaries with women... .

This is usually the area where lack of boundaries is obvious. However it is likely he has little grasp of boundaries across the board, the thing is you haven't really clued up on that yet. It is his total incomprehension of boundaries that makes it hard to understand, or respect, the boundaries of others.

Most people have a vague idea of boundaries, but few truly understand them clearly, and especially how to enforce them in a healthy way, rather than just confusing them with demands and wishful thinking.

Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits

The "noble intentions" you mention no doubt comes in the form of grand gestures. Where any generous act will be highly visible, invisible generous acts have no currency. The currency is approval or praise, hence these acts of generosity are ultimately self serving, rather than selfless. To outsiders these generous acts have even more currency as they do not have to overcome any prexisting scepticism.

Does he exhibit mirroring of others?
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JQ
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2016, 01:14:37 PM »

Hi again!

I cant explain the relief i feel to be among people who are facing a similar situation from knowing absolutely no one!thank God!

One thing i find the hardest to accept is his lack of boundaries with women... .he has weird inappropriate emotionally involved relationships which cause me a lot of distress. If i tell him what i feel he blows up and starts throwing a tantrum and shouting accusations at me... .iv said it often enough by now... so should i just leave him to his devices or not?

Since its such an important aspect of the relationship i cant seem to make up my mind on my reaction. I suppose telling him not to do it makes him want to do it all the more apart from the pleasure he gets out of it.

Also he is a brilliant actor... .no one could possibly guess the state of his mind... .it has taken me forever and i still get deceived into beleiving he has noble intentions... .do they all play this pretend game outside home?

Stil,

I echo a lot of what Waverider is pointing out in regards to a BPD lacking the grasp of boundaries, it's extremely common for those with BPD.  There are a couple of books you can read as well as references on this site. "Stop Walking on Eggshells" & "I hate you, don't leave me" & "The Human Magnet Syndrome", you can usually find them at your local library or download them on a Kindle or tablet type thing too.  It'll help explain in more detail some of the things you're experiencing and how to manage your feelings, and or explain boundaries, gas lighting, projection, painted black, painted white, raging, idealization, devaluation, splitting, and so many more.

Most guidance about putting boundaries in place also address the consequences of stepping over or completely disregarding a boundary you put in place.  They all say to start out with something small and they give examples of what they are & possible consequences. It's very much like when you establish a boundary with a 3 yr old toddler of not climbing on the kitchen table. You set this boundary, and of course the 3 yr old will test you when you say "NO" and then it's up to you to enforce it by some means of consequences, example of a "spanking" or a "time out" in the corner.  Will you enforce the boundary and hopefully correct this behavior or will you "threaten" to put them in a time out but never do there by being the enablier.  And like a 3 yr old toddler when you're sitting boundaries, don't expect it to be a quick fix but anticipate that it will take several times to correct this behavior if at all.  This is where a REALLY good therapist who has a lot of experience in BPD & codependent r/s can help guide you in this process.

You said, "If i tell him what i feel he blows up and starts throwing a tantrum and shouting accusations at me."  Someone who has BPD is emotionally & behaviorally stunted as a 3 yr old toddler and YOU describe one of their behaviors perfectly. You will hear this a lot from someone in a BPD r/s. Your BPD threw a temper tantrum much like a 3 year old toddler does when you take a way a toy or discipline them for doing something wrong. Know that you are going to have to be the adult in this r/s forever.  If you look back over the r/s I imagine you can see other instances where he would behave much like a 3 yr old toddler. My exBPDgf would throw temper tantrums when I would set a boundary and she would break it. She would laugh like a child when she found something funny on tv and most times she would rather eat a cheese pizza, spaghetti or other childhood favorites rather than something that most other adults would rather have. It's very child like innocents that I found interesting the most at times.

You also mentioned, "Also he is a brilliant actor... .no one could possibly guess the state of his mind".  BPD's have learn to adapt or mirror people that hide their true emotions or feelings and it's difficult to know who you're truly dealing with. BPD's have an extreme fear of abandonment & engulfment which then leads to the push/pull behavior that you also describe as well. They have deep seated emotions of guilt and shame that I'm sure you've dealt but didn't really realize it at the time. You explain this well with him blowing up at you and throwing a tantrum. It's most likely he is feeling some shame & some guilt feelings that he has never dealt with and he rages at you in order to cope with. Much like that of a toddler when they're overwhelmed, they don't know what to do or how to act so they lash out.

Don't try to apply logic to this r/s because all of that goes out the window with someone who has BPD mental illness. For example, you said, "do they all play this pretend game outside the home".   You will read that his is very common among those who have or had a r/s with someone who is BPD. They set up this amazing picture of themselves to the outside world, this is to protect themselves. Is it a intentional game, most would say no but like anything else in in life with people regardless if they are mentally ill or not, you can not paint a situation with a broad brush.

You are a quick study Stil, you're doing amazing telling us your story and sharing what you're feeling. In all of this you're probably NOT taking care of yourself like you should be, it happens to all of us until someone points it out. You're probably having a lot of stress & anxiety about everything, so be sure you get out for a walk in the morning before work or in the evening after you get home. A mile one takes about 15-20 minutes to walk on a bad day but it helps burn up a lot of stress & anxiety you're feeling. Enjoy the birds & nature in the morning. Enjoy the small things in the evening on your walk. Before you know it you're easily doing 2 miles.  You're probably not eating right so do your best to stay away from junk food. Nothing good comes from junk food.  Call up an old friend you haven't spoken to in a long time and catch up on life with them. This is good for the soul and will do some amazing things for you. Call up a girlfriend or several girlfriends and go to a funny movie or a comedy show. Laughter is so good to realign your emotions and releases some stress too.  Then be sure you're getting enough sleep. REM sleep is so important to repair the body from the daily stresses of life and prepare you for the next day's challenges.

Smile ... .things are going to get better ... .they always get better Stil!

J
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waverider
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2016, 05:46:58 PM »

Just one caution on comparing a pwBPD to a child. A child is learning new ways all the time, they are open and malleable to change, more importantly you have authority over your child.

An adult with BPD has developed an entrenched and almost immovable method of behavior, they do not respond to chastisement the way a child does. In fact being patronizing towards them is an enormous trigger they are sensitive to. You can wing it in an argument  with a child, you are going to cop a hiding from an adult with BPD as they are a life long expert at it with few rules.

This is why any boundary enforcement has to be what you are going to do, as your odds of sending them to their room is simply too funny to entertain. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Rather think of an adult with stunted emotional development, be very wary of viewing them as a toddler. They have been accused of this most of their life  most likely, and are primed to react if you do.
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JQ
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2016, 07:31:13 PM »

stil, Waverider,

Excellent point Waverider and I certainly should of made that clarification. Thank you for the support & backup on this point.  And your correct, those pwBPD are certainly entrenched in their behavior in addition to your point of most likely being accused of acting like a toddler all their life. My point was that some of their outward r/s behavior is very similar to each other but by NO means do you approach both with the same mentality in an attempt to affect change in their respective behavior. As you point out they do react in a VERY negative way if someone points out or spotlights their "childlike" behavior. From my experience and I'm sure yours along with most others in the group, nothing good comes after doing that.

Funny about sending them to you their room. One of the "small" boundaries they do recommend in trying to establish in a BPD r/s is to stop the raging at the NON. When this happens, the NON is suppose to let the BPD know that they are upset, hurt, and need some time to themselves from the BPD anger until they calm down. Reassure the BPD that they aren't going away, but I'm just going to go in the other room (bedroom) to calm down and collect myself. When I'm calmed down I'll come back out and we can talk. Or if you need to go for a walk outdoors, but again reassure the pwBPD that your not going away, but just need some time to yourself to calm down and recover from being hurt. In both cases they recommend short periods of time to begin with so as NOT to trigger the pwBPD fears of abandonment.  Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't, you have to find out through trial & error what works for each r/s if it works at all.

It's going to be like this for all the boundaries you try to put in place ... .trial & error. That is where a good therapist who is very experienced in BPD / Codependent r/s comes in to assist you, your thoughts, feelings, emotions.

J
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Hopeful07

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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2016, 09:23:24 AM »

I have the same issue with my boyfriend. He has no boundaries when it comes to other women. It's also hurtful that a few of these women liked him and wanted a relationship and said bad things about me and he still continued the friendships. I would be livid if someone said bad things about him to me. It also feels like it never ends, I'm always dealing with "women" friends, some good some bad. If one goes away it feels like another threat pops up. Do they like drama, does he want a reaction from me or is it just about his ego?
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stilinchrist

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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2016, 09:36:05 AM »

Hey everyone

you guys are incredibly wise... .its inspiring

yes you are quite right about the boundaries being non existent in all aread... .i never looked at it that way... .

and mirroring?oh yes!he is literally a mirror... .earlier in the relationship when i didnt understand what he was doing it was nice but iv finally caught up on it... .its hard to tell what part of his personality is his own... .in 7 years i havent seen him laugh genuinely... .so the mirroring is extreme... .he takes on the personality of whoever he is with... .

hopeful... .thats so true... .its always one after another... .

i have a loong way to go in setting boundaries... .i dont know how it will work with a guy who is constantly seeking revenge... .but i will spend time reading in the weekend... .

Also unfortunately i have wasted so much energy on logic in the past 7years... .understand it now
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JQ
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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2016, 10:24:42 AM »

Stil,

First of all, you haven't wasted anything in the last 7 years, being logical is who YOU are.  Please do NOT change who YOU are at the core for someone else, especially someone who has BPD. My question to you ... .If YOU changed who you really are at YOUR core, if you changed YOUR behavior, mannerisms, aren't YOU in fact "mirroring" your BPD and becoming someone you're really not?  You might be able to do this for a short period of time but eventually it's going to catch up to you.  It's like the old saying, "You can't change the stripes on a Tiger".  If you're pretending to be someone you're not how can that help ANY r/s much less you the person? 

@Hopeful, as you learn more about BPD you'll learn that boundaries are very difficult to put in place and even harder to enforce & maintain. There is obvious some extreme tension between you two on the lack of boundaries. Do NOT try to apply logic to ANY part of a r/s with someone who has BPD as many here will tell you that logic & BPD is like oil & water, they don't mix. Stil tried that for 7 yrs by their own admission.   So to think that they like the drama? In a "normal" r/s without any mental illness does ANYONE really like drama? In a normal r/s again without any mental illness playing a part does anyone really want to do or try to do the things a BPD does to their NON to get a reaction, a rise out of them, to start arguments, cause the pain, hurt and emotional upheaval that the BPD does?

One of the first things, one of many things I learned about the Cluster B Mental Illness BPD is the three C's.

YOU didn't Cause it!  YOU can't Control it!  YOU can't Cure it!

I'm kinda slow and it took me some time for those 3 things to sink in my brain. I actually put them on stickies and put them on the fridge & bathroom mirror where I would see them all the time to remind me of my limitations when confronted with BPD.

You both are amazing, caring, loving people who want the same from someone else. You're BPD mirrored you in order to "feed their need" to make them feel better.  Don't forget that BPD can have associated issues attached to them as well. Some pwBPD can also exhibit signs of NPD or Narcissistic Personality Disorder among others. It's tough enough trying to learn about the complications of a BPD r/s, NOW you throw in NPD or something else or worse yet a combination of 2 or more?  If you attempt to change yourself, your behavior, the way you think, act, etc for someone else then you'll loose yourself in a short period of time and what a lost that would be to the world. 

Continue to learn, open your mind to the seriousness of this mental illness and the all the complicated facets that go along with it.  But really open your mind to who you are, where you came from. Why you are the way you are and most likely a Codependent.  Remember YOU are responsible for YOU & YOUR happiness.  

Take some time out this weekend to really start to take care of YOU!  Get out for that walk or a bike ride. Meet a old friend for coffee or lunch.  Go see that funny movie, get out and explore life for a period of time this weekend.  I challenge both of you to get up before the sun does, fix your tea, a cup of coffee, or other beverage of choice. Go to a spot in your back yard or someone where near you and watch the sun come up.

Really take the time to notice all the colors changing from black to different shades of blues, oranges, yellows, and pinks. Take the time out to listen to the world wake up with the birds singing ... .take a deep breath and enjoy the small things.  Center yourself, take care of yourself, learn to love yourself and who you are. YOU have so much to offer the world and doing it by not changing who you are! 

J
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waverider
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2016, 06:14:42 PM »

Applying your logic to a BPD mind is like raising your voice to someone who does not speak your language and expecting them to understand simply because you are getting louder.

As JQ points out dont change who you are simply consolidate who you are, and dont try to project who you are, or your logic,, onto your partner, this saves wasting energy on things that don't work and also minimizes the effectiveness of mirroring.

The reason pwBPD mirror is because they have no sense of self, and a desire to fit in, rather than a conscious attempt to manipulate.
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stilinchrist

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« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2016, 05:36:22 PM »

Yes. Since i always thought of him as a normal guy it just never did occur to me that rationality is non existent in him.  By wasting time i meant in arguments hoping him to see the light of day. Its been the hardest thing to accept having grown up in a rather logical environment. Its no wonder that he cant stand my family much especially when they are just not the type you can flatter. My h feels powerless with people who dont submit to his flattery.

I must say now that i know this is the issue on one hand its a relief cos im not totally confused about all his symptoms and changing personality. But on the other hand i feel helpless when i think how little i can do. I tried to channel a lot of my energies in doing 'things' which would inspire change and that kind of kept me going so far. I just wanted to have a real relationship so much. But now its about acceptance and self care.
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waverider
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2016, 06:19:40 PM »

But now its about acceptance and self care.

Once you head down this path you lower both your frustrations and you wont bang heads as much. This ultimately results in a more worthwhile relationship, even if it is "odd"  by other peoples standards. You can still be odd and happy.

When I was a teenager i dreamed of owning a red Ferrari when I grew up, Now I have a white station wagon. Not as exciting as i was hoping but it can do things the Ferrari couldn't.

Look for some of the things your partner can add that other "role models" but boring partners couldn't. If there was no flattery in your logical upbringing, enjoy the flattery for what it is. If you are aware it is just flippant, does it matter as long as you know?

No point going head to head with dysfunction that you can't stop you may as well work with it and direct it towards more mutually agreeable ends. who cares what anyone else thinks of it? Nothing wrong with being the "odd couple", lots of people are, behind closed doors
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stilinchrist

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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2016, 04:45:37 PM »

Hey waverider!

Thanks.i like your statement 'you can still be odd n happy'!

Not to mention the ferrari vs station wagon!lol

Despite all the pain the good thing is that through i have been able to identify and work on a lot of my own weaknesses.

the discovery that what i was dealing with has itself really help me to relax and stop trying to find solutions to each separate issue. Phew that took loads of my time. now through this website iv learned about many skills which i need to apply esp validation.

Yes truly no more going head to head with dysfunction.

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