Now my daughter needs a safe word?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Quick summary -- the person with BPD is my stbx wife. We've been separated for four months, and I initiated divorce proceedings this week. We have a D10 who has probably inherited some of the mental illness (which is not just BPD) and has struggled with her own behavioral issues for years. The last year has been a huge leap forward for her. Even while the marriage was collapsing, D10 was on a therapy program of medication, counseling, and a school support system that led her to excel and to be much happier.

D10 and I live in the marital house. BPDw has a small apartment a few miles away. D10 spends every other weekend there, as well as seeing BPDw some afternoons and dinners. BPDw really struggles with chid care. I had a long talk with D10's therapist today which was enlightening.

BPDw doesn't have a filter, and she lives out loud, so she'll just tell D10 whatever is on her mind -- which can include parental alienation (ranting about me), parentification (talking about the divorce and her finances and other problems), using D10 as a therapist, and sometimes trying to get to the bottom of D10's feelings by probing and probing and probing. The therapist says that D10 gets flooded by this quickly, feeling that it's either inappropriate or too much for her to handle, and she tries to shut BPDw down, but my wife talks like a fire hose and will not be stopped. When D10 gets flooded, she then gets angry and lashes out, and they get into conflicts which have sometimes resulted in physical altercations (probably started by D10, but that's no excuse for BPDw to retaliate) and using hurtful language to lash out at her mom.

The therapist suggested to D10 that she try to come up with a safe word that she can get BPDw to agree would mean that she would drop a topic when it gets uncomfortable. But she's worried that BPDw isn't able to control herself when she gets emotional. In fact, she's concerned because BPDw has been showing up at some of the therapy sessions, ostensibly to brief her on some things that are going on, but they end up turning into therapy sessions for BPDw, revealing a lot of personal information in the lobby of the clinic! She's trying to figure out how to put up a boundary against my wife! Ugh!

I'm worried about D10. She loves her mom, and vice versa, but it can be a toxic situation, and the grownup in the room isn't able to manage it properly. I don't know what I can do about this.

[flourdust]

Quick summary -- the person with BPD is my stbx wife. We've been separated for four months, and I initiated divorce proceedings this week. We have a D10 who has probably inherited some of the mental illness (which is not just BPD) and has struggled with her own behavioral issues for years. The last year has been a huge leap forward for her. Even while the marriage was collapsing, D10 was on a therapy program of medication, counseling, and a school support system that led her to excel and to be much happier.

D10 and I live in the marital house. BPDw has a small apartment a few miles away. D10 spends every other weekend there, as well as seeing BPDw some afternoons and dinners. BPDw really struggles with chid care. I had a long talk with D10's therapist today which was enlightening.

BPDw doesn't have a filter, and she lives out loud, so she'll just tell D10 whatever is on her mind -- which can include parental alienation (ranting about me), parentification (talking about the divorce and her finances and other problems), using D10 as a therapist, and sometimes trying to get to the bottom of D10's feelings by probing and probing and probing. The therapist says that D10 gets flooded by this quickly, feeling that it's either inappropriate or too much for her to handle, and she tries to shut BPDw down, but my wife talks like a fire hose and will not be stopped. When D10 gets flooded, she then gets angry and lashes out, and they get into conflicts which have sometimes resulted in physical altercations (probably started by D10, but that's no excuse for BPDw to retaliate) and using hurtful language to lash out at her mom.

The therapist suggested to D10 that she try to come up with a safe word that she can get BPDw to agree would mean that she would drop a topic when it gets uncomfortable. But she's worried that BPDw isn't able to control herself when she gets emotional. In fact, she's concerned because BPDw has been showing up at some of the therapy sessions, ostensibly to brief her on some things that are going on, but they end up turning into therapy sessions for BPDw, revealing a lot of personal information in the lobby of the clinic! She's trying to figure out how to put up a boundary against my wife! Ugh!

I'm worried about D10. She loves her mom, and vice versa, but it can be a toxic situation, and the grownup in the room isn't able to manage it properly. I don't know what I can do about this.

[Naughty Nibbler]

HEY FLOURDUST: 

I'm so sorry for what you are going through.  I can see that you have your daughter's best interest in mind.

If the straight forward approach for a safe word won't work (with a word like "Stop" "Enough" or "Your Hurting me", maybe your daughter might have some personal preference for a word, maybe a word for something that scares her.  (i.e. zombie, monster), or perhaps a word for something that comforts her (i.e. cuddle, hug, etc.).   

Does her mom have her own therapist?  It is inappropriate for her mom to dump all her frustration onto her daughter.  That would even be tough on an emotionally healthy child.  Sounds like an unsafe situation with your wife and daughter.  You don't want your daughter to get physical with her mom and you wouldn't want your wife to lose control and get physical back.

Someone else with more experience will likely have better answers for you. The taming of mom's anger/behavior sounds critical to your daughter's mental health. I'm thinking you might need to temporarily add some limitations to the time your daughter shares with her mother (unsupervised).  If need be, you might have to get the courts involved. 

If you aren't in therapy yourself, it might be helpful right now.

[Ulysses]

Hi Flourdust,

I think the changes your family is going through can be difficult for all members to navigate.  I'm so glad to hear that your daughter has the support she does.

I don't think a "safe word" is all that unusual.  I think it can be a really positive thing for a child.  It lets them communicate "stop" without having to resort to yelling or physical interaction.  Hopefully the adults around them will stop. 

I used this with my S when he was about 4 or 5.  He could be very explosive - wild, loud tantrums.  It was part of his personality, since, well, before birth.  His pediatrician recommended I not do anything to potty train him.  He felt it would lead to power struggles and frankly not be healthy for my son.  So I didn't.  S taught himself once he started preschool.  He would occasionally have accidents when he was about 4 or 5 from holding it too long (I never knew a kid could wait so long... .).  My exNPD/BPDh and I got in the habit of reminding him to go to the bathroom, or asking him if he had to go.  S finally told us to stop asking, and if we forgot and asked, he would get super angry.  So he and I came up with a word he could use that would communicate to me that I was asking too much (or at all), and he wanted me to stop.  I felt like it worked really well.  It broke my habit of asking him, and he felt a lot of control being able to use 1 word, calmly.  I don't remember if he used it with, or if it worked with, my exH.  My S12 and I went through a similar issue with homework this year. 

Yours is a different situation.  But it could be a start for your daughter and her mom.  If her mom doesn't respect the boundary, your D will learn that.  She can then move on to the next step of talking to her counselor about it.  In any event, your D is learning, with the support of a counselor, that it's ok to have boundaries and to express those boundaries.  She might also learn that some people don't respect the boundaries, and then it's up to us to decide how to respond.

[flourdust]

Does her mom have her own therapist?  It is inappropriate for her mom to dump all her frustration onto her daughter.  That would even be tough on an emotionally healthy child.  Sounds like an unsafe situation with your wife and daughter.  You don't want your daughter to get physical with her mom and you wouldn't want your wife to lose control and get physical back.

Someone else with more experience will likely have better answers for you. The taming of mom's anger/behavior sounds critical to your daughter's mental health. I'm thinking you might need to temporarily add some limitations to the time your daughter shares with her mother (unsupervised).  If need be, you might have to get the courts involved. 

If you aren't in therapy yourself, it might be helpful right now.

Oh, we're all in therapy over here in happyland! 

I see my therapist every few weeks, D10 has hers, and BPDw not only has a therapist, she has ten hours/week of DBT, a psychiatrist, a neurologist, and probably more ists.

Yours is a different situation.  But it could be a start for your daughter and her mom.  If her mom doesn't respect the boundary, your D will learn that.  She can then move on to the next step of talking to her counselor about it.  In any event, your D is learning, with the support of a counselor, that it's ok to have boundaries and to express those boundaries.  She might also learn that some people don't respect the boundaries, and then it's up to us to decide how to respond.

Ulysses, thank you! This is an IMMENSELY helpful perspective for me to hear.

[Naughty Nibbler]

       

Oh, we're all in therapy over here in happyland!  

I see my therapist every few weeks, D10 has hers, and BPDw not only has a therapist, she has ten hours/week of DBT, a psychiatrist, a neurologist, and probably more

Sounds like a "full court press" or "covering all the bases".  :)id you BPDw initiate this level of treatment, in an attempt to gain custody of your daughter, or did a court order it?  Just wondering if she was previously resistant to seeking treatment.

[flourdust]

       

Oh, we're all in therapy over here in happyland!  

I see my therapist every few weeks, D10 has hers, and BPDw not only has a therapist, she has ten hours/week of DBT, a psychiatrist, a neurologist, and probably more

Sounds like a "full court press" or "covering all the bases".  :)id you BPDw initiate this level of treatment, in an attempt to gain custody of your daughter, or did a court order it?  Just wondering if she was previously resistant to seeking treatment.

This was part of an ongoing effort to find effective treatment as our situation at home spiraled down over the last several years. She's been in some sort of therapy almost her entire life. The last MC we saw advised me that she seemed very comfortable in the therapeutic environment but couldn't apply the skills to herself.