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Author Topic: Righteous anger, warped perception. Does it get better..?  (Read 689 times)
Zinnia21
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« on: June 13, 2016, 09:37:28 PM »

So, I'm really struggling with BPD bf and his constant irritation and anger at the world around him. Anyone have experience of this, or any idea if it can improve with therapy?

He will think someone just stared at him when we walk down the street and he gives them a nasty glare. He overhears conversations as his senses work double time, and comments on how wrong and bad everyone is. He talks about people we know as if they are terrible and their "conduct' is so bad, like he is a moral policeman, never off duty!

His road rage is off the charts and has become a form of rage against the world too. By the time we get somewhere, he's so fired up and almost looking for conflict. He's not even a violent or angry 'type' guy, but if he feels someone has slighted him, that's it... !

He gets heated about topics over dinner, my heart rate goes up and I feel trapped; can't deny his opinions for fear of upsetting, but can't pretend non stop and never say how I feel either.

Things are fragile, we are casually back together after breakups and makeups. He's about to go for his first ever psych appointment which will hopefully become a proper diagnosis.

Not sure of our future at all, seeing as he's so up and down and fairly unwell and unpredictable but there are signs of hope if we get help now.

But I'm not sure I can live with constant negativity and anger. He's a lovely soul and the last thing he wants to be is nasty. He doesn't realise that's what he becomes when he glares at innocent people daydreaming out of a cafe window in his direction. Or when he beeps at a car which probably is driving slow cos some poor mum is in there with her 3 kids shouting at her... He has no patience for such possibilities and just feels the world is an uncaring and broken place.

Does this way of thinking improve with therapy?

I must say, I was relieved that he says more often that he sees its him and his head overall. But in the moment, he struggles to see reason and step back and have compassion...

And when it all bubbles over, I am in the firing line again, seen as one of these 'bad' people of the world. It's so righteous and blinded and twisted, this way of thinking.

Anyone struggle with this? Would LOVE any thoughts or stories or info on improving this... .
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2016, 02:53:28 AM »

Hi Zinnia21 

The behaviours you describe feel difficult to deal with, with an intimate partner--especially over time. I would feel disheartened if I observed this in my partner.

I can't relate a close example, but I do see his higher negativity--relative to your level. If that's true then I relate to that.

I'm sorry--I don't know if this can improve over therapy. But I do support you while you solve this:)

You mentioned being in the firing line. Definitely check out validation if you haven't already. It helped me in a huge way to handle getting shot at. It also helped me at the time to figure out how to handle boiling bubbles from the bubbling pot.

Zinnia21 I've also noticed you've been on detaching and staying boards. No worries there--but I want to gently raise an idea to you. Whatever you decide to do here--beyond the picture of your relationship--I encourage you not to lose sight of your bigger picture.




You mentioned you're looking for info on improving your situation. I hope this helps you find the right tools--but please be wary about their role in potential enabling behaviour. Keep your eye on Zinnia21's big picture.

In the role of partner--while recognising that I'm not a mental health professional--I would consider these:



  • 1. Preparation: Clarify my intention to me; e.g. "To discourage him from this behaviour (be specific!) in a gentle and logical way."


  • 2. Preparation: Check if the timing is okay; e.g., 10 clear minutes.


  • 3. Preparation: Validating him, and be ready to maintain my mindful state with self-validation.


  • 4. Do: Talk in the direction of my intention. E.g. "Adam, may we please talk about this?Smiling (click to insert in post) How does it feel when you let your mind wander to anger?Smiling (click to insert in post) What happens if you're driving me to work and you move quickly down this path?Smiling (click to insert in post)"


  • 5. Preparation required: Be ready to be okay with leaving it there, then end the conversation at 10 minutes.




I would then repeat.

Good luck in pursuing a course that's healthy for you and may you find rest.




Notes to:

#2. An example of not picking a bad time (Lesson 2: Understand your role).

#3. An example of preserving one's own emotional health (Lesson 2: Understand your role).

#3. Validation.

#3. Validation video. <---Excellent.
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2016, 09:07:31 AM »

So, I'm really struggling with BPD bf and his constant irritation and anger at the world around him. Anyone have experience of this, or any idea if it can improve with therapy?

He will think someone just stared at him when we walk down the street and he gives them a nasty glare. He overhears conversations as his senses work double time, and comments on how wrong and bad everyone is. He talks about people we know as if they are terrible and their "conduct' is so bad, like he is a moral policeman, never off duty!

Hi Zinnia,

You express these various situations so well. Your second paragraph reminds me of my mother. She was an expert at eavesdropping, regularly thought strangers were talking about her in a derogatory manner and was a "moral policeman, never off duty."  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Great phrase!

What I've learned is that people with BPD often don't stick with therapy. They have such a tremendous burden of shame that it's often too painful to go through the process of confronting themselves. It's much easier to blame other people for being disappointing than it is to look within.

His road rage is off the charts and has become a form of rage against the world too. By the time we get somewhere, he's so fired up and almost looking for conflict. He's not even a violent or angry 'type' guy, but if he feels someone has slighted him, that's it... .

He gets heated about topics over dinner, my heart rate goes up and I feel trapped; can't deny his opinions for fear of upsetting, but can't pretend non stop and never say how I feel either.

I'm not sure how you can say he's not "a violent or angry 'type' guy" because the behavior you describe, sounds just like that. My ex-husband was like a wounded puppy at times, and over the years he became physically and verbally abusive. When we first began dating, I would never have guessed he'd be violent years later, but there were little tells along the way, such as when he smashed one of his favorite things because he was mad at me.

But I'm not sure I can live with constant negativity and anger. He's a lovely soul and the last thing he wants to be is nasty. He doesn't realise that's what he becomes when he glares at innocent people daydreaming out of a cafe window in his direction. Or when he beeps at a car which probably is driving slow cos some poor mum is in there with her 3 kids shouting at her... He has no patience for such possibilities and just feels the world is an uncaring and broken place.

Does this way of thinking improve with therapy?

I must say, I was relieved that he says more often that he sees its him and his head overall. But in the moment, he struggles to see reason and step back and have compassion...

And when it all bubbles over, I am in the firing line again, seen as one of these 'bad' people of the world. It's so righteous and blinded and twisted, this way of thinking.

Anyone struggle with this? Would LOVE any thoughts or stories or info on improving this... .

Well, you mention "improving this" and I'm sorry to say that it's not your job to "improve" him, nor will it be appreciated by him. I've been there, done that, screwed up time and time again, trying to make both my current husband and former husband "see the light", until I came here and realized how pointless and undermining my behavior was.

You say you're not sure you can live with constant negativity and anger. He's a lovely soul and the last thing he wants to be is nasty. Again, I'm sorry to say that's all part of BPD. Can you truly accept him in totality? That negativity and anger will be there no matter what. However, how you react to it is up to you.

If you have strong enough boundaries, you can keep it from affecting you. If he's behaving in a way that is unpleasant, you can leave. Over time, he will get the message, but it will take a long time and you have to be consistent. I know this is easier said than done. And it's nearly impossible to be in the same car with someone who regularly gets road rage. You'll have to ignore the glaring at strangers, get up and leave the dinner table when he gets upset, refuse to participate in conversations where he's denigrating your friends and acquaintances.

If, and only if, you do these things on a regular basis, will you "extinguish" the negative behavior in your presence. Doesn't sound like much of a relationship to me. I was so busy trying to apply "first aid" with my first marriage that I didn't really have an overview about how chaotic it had become. My second marriage started out blissfully, but I didn't see the "tells" that would ultimately demonstrate that I had married yet another man with BPD. Fortunately his behavior is not off the charts like the first husband. My feeling is that you need to take a close look at this man and really ask yourself if he's what you want in a life partner.

 

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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2016, 02:04:38 PM »

My wife's therapists always push the question "which comes first the thought or the feeling?" when these episodes happen. This I guess is directed at identifying the source of the anger/emotion, internal or external.

Not sure if it works, in the moment my wife can'tr do it either, though she does consider it afterwards when I raise it which does calm her down and help her realize she is just projecting her emotions.

It will be hard to stop the triggering, but he may learn, with your help, to curb the escalations. To that end i guess it is better for you not to argue the reality or the triggering issue, but rather refocus him on what he is feeling. Telling him he is being silly or overreacting is just throwing yourself under the runaway train. Better to switch the points and redirect his focus.
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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2016, 09:38:02 PM »

Thanks for your advice and support everyone.


to everyone... an extension of my original question is- can more progress be made in a relationship if an official diagnosis is gained?

We have been battling away without one, and without him recognising the disorder or even having a therapist for the last 2 years. Battling through irrational breakups and emotional pain... Can a better understanding open up if a diagnosis is gained?

I wonder what it might be like if we could then inform ourselves via books and therapy etc.

At this stage, I think he accepts it more now as a serious thing that he needs help for, but hasn't yet been able to give it a name or a path of treatment. His 1st psych appointment is this month.

And he knows that I suspect BPD but he hasn't openly discussed that with me yet.

At the moment he's still in recovery from a bad meltdown. Third one in 3 years of us being together. During this time he pushed me away again and became very isolated. He became so depressed afterwards that he couldn't get out of bed for some weeks. It may be that he also has another mood disorder, not sure.

Is it normal in BPD for sufferers to be so deeply depressed and also physically unwell from the stress?

And to go through stages of agoraphobia and intense anti social feelings.?

What are your experiences with such things?

Right now it's hard to imagine him ever wanting to go to a party or any social outing ever again! Hasn't always been the way, I hope he can find himself again.

I think his general anger and irritation is worse in this extreme down phase, or at least his control of it I suppose.


gotbushels: 

Thankyou, I will look at your recommended links. It's so hard to unlearn responses such as 'no I don't think they were looking at you darling', and that sort of thing that works with most people. Your advice and info are very helpful and reassuring. Anything else you might add would be appreciated.

Cat familiar:

I do think I accept him in totality, and have definitely gone beyond the 'first aid' stage, much more realism on my part than before as my awareness of BPD grows. He's definitely not violent towards me, but the jealousy is an issue sometimes. Have you experienced much of that in your marriages?

If so, do you have a way of reassuring him in a way that's healthy for you both?

I do love him greatly and would like it to work out, but that feeling is partly on hold for me until he has an official diagnosis. I know that won't fix it, but hoping it will create a better path forward... .feels like we are stumbling through the woods with no guide, without it... .does your husband go to therapy? Does it help him, or help you both to deal overall?

waverider:

As I was saying above, I'd love to get to a point of him even having a therapist. Even having proper recognition of BPD. Do you think that helps? I think we are close to it now, but it'll be disappointing if the psych doesn't identify the BPD, I hope he does! But it may take a while... .

I will try the refocus approach next time conflict arises. I think I instinctively did that a few times before, and he did soften a bit. I can see it in his eyes that he's disappointed if I disagree with him, so as you say, there's no point in reacting like that. This is such a tricky thing to learn about...



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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2016, 04:26:39 AM »

As far as the effect of a diagnosis goes it can have effects either way. For you it is validation that you are on the right path. For the pwBPD they can either not accept, or embrace it. It could be a relief that they have a face for what they are going through, and are not just a freak. On the other hand it can be seen as a "failure label'

Hopefully if they accept it then it can open dialogue more between you, it could also cause despair as the prognosis for recover is not great. The BPD trait of wanting immediate gratification can have them chasing the magic quick fix, whether it be meds or "someone" to fix them. My wifes diagnosis brought about a spiral of overdoses trying to force 'the system" to take her seriously and fix her. The disorder was also worn as a badge to justify everything and anything

My wife has been on an anxiety/OCD disability pension most of her life so accepting she has a mental illnes as such was no big issue, it was just a new label.

Most importantly you can't fall into the trap yourself thinking that things will will now start to get better because of a diagnosis, there is still a lot of hard work in front of you. It will change, it is just hard to say how it will affect specific individuals.

A lot will depend on whether you can both be on the same team, and the real enemy is the disorder so that you can work together to manage it.
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2016, 05:48:51 AM »

You're most welcome Zinnia21:)

Yes, it can be difficult having to re-learn responses. I had a difficult time too. Little bites of cake.

You seem to have an awareness that you have some role to play. Remember that we can't control if a romantic partner initially comes from a depressed place--but you can control what you do around him. That doesn't seem easy for many people and it's commendable that recognising your role seems quite natural to you.

The ones that don't recognise this actually seem to undertake more pain. E.g., when a non invalidates the BP continuously, things start to catch fire--so it's helpful for you to recognise that you're doing something to prevent this pain in a healthy way. That's beneficial to you and you'll get this reward although it's not immediately obvious. When I realised that, it was encouraging to me.

You also recognised that "natural" reactions don't always work. Yet, it would help you to know that while they don't come immediately to many people, responses like validating a partner can be much more sound and effective. Take heart. Little bites of cake.
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2016, 11:02:17 AM »

I'm not sure if this helps or not.  I know for me, when I work with my life coach/therapist, when I come to understandings about things it helps me create a mental paradigm shift about how I feel or react to situations.  The one things for me that helped me with my wife was being able to differentiate the behavior from who she is.  The behaviors are nothing more than predictable conditioned reflexes based upon every experience in her life up to this point.  But that is not the essence of her being.  By creating this paradigm shift I stopped taking so many things personally, especially the ongoing psychological projection which was so hard for me, still is. 
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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2016, 06:10:31 PM »

The one things for me that helped me with my wife was being able to differentiate the behavior from who she is.  The behaviors are nothing more than predictable conditioned reflexes based upon every experience in her life up to this point. 

While this is helpful in reducing our reactiveness and any consequent resentment. It is not entirely true that this is some kind of subconscious reaction, and not who she is. The belief that under this overlay is a normal personality who is just the same as us, is wrong.

BPD goes to the core of their thinking and affects who they are in a complete and pervasive way. Its just not always visible.

Excerpt
predictable conditioned reflexes based upon every experience in her life up to this poin

There is a chicken and egg element here. It is not the same as you may find in post traumatic stress. Many of the things that have happened in their life are a consequence of the disorder, the results of which consolidate it.

"Normal" thinking, for want of a better word, is alien to them. This is why recovery is not really recovery, but reinvention. It is why commitment to change is hard as they have no experience of the goal, so its all hypothetical to them. All they hear is that what they have always done is wrong, and your way is just as mystical to them as theirs is to us. Its a reciepe for dispair
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2016, 10:25:25 PM »

Yes, that's an interesting point and possibly one of the most confusing aspects of loving someone with this disorder.

You have a sense of the essence of this person that you love and it feels like that person is lost somewhere within a sea of knee jerk reactions and warped perceptions. It feels like there are so many layers of acceptance in this situation for non BPD partners, as to how interwoven the behaviours are.

Interestingly, when we last broke up in his most recent crisis, he himself was trying to make me see how much it was a part of him as the good stuff is. I was saying something along the lines of how he changes into this 'other' person, and it's confusing for me. And he blurted out in a very angry frustrated way "It's ALL me!" Like I should stop trying to imply the well behaved half of him was the real him and the irrational off the charts version was not him. I said, "but I love you!" to which he replied, "yes, but love can't fix this!"

And now as we are seeing each other again, he says to me one of his fears is that I won't love him anymore because he thinks he isn't the same person that I originally met. So on the other hand it's so confusing for him too, the way his personality and feelings seem to shift and fluctuate between extremes.

But it's said that this is one of the defining differences between borderline and bipolar, from what I've read anyway.  Bipolar has a baseline personality which shifts to an extreme and then comes back again. But borderline is seen as being more interwoven into the person because the shifts in mood are so constant, as is the warped thinking, that we have to say, what is their personality then? In a sense, they don't remain in one place long enough to even develop a reflective understanding of who they are. And nor can we, I suppose.

Which brings us back to the 'essence' of a person. It seems the only anchor sometimes in this situation, so I do see what you mean BestVersionOfMe. I feel like I see his essence those times when we are curled up in bed and feeling a closeness that seems untouched by the difficulties and I think "oh... there you are" or we joke about something together in a quiet moment and he seems 'himself'.

Maybe it's the moments when their negative brain activity isn't harassing them so much, that they are relaxed and you feel that is the real person, or the potential of who they might be if they weren't affected the rest of the time. But seeing as there is so much going on in their minds which we will never know about, those moments are perhaps different for them than they are for us.

Sorry, I got long winded and philosophical there!

It surely is a baffling thing to get ones mind around. I've only been acquainted with the notion of BPD in the last 6 months or so. And I'm seeing more and more all the thoughts and feelings he suffers from, which I didn't even know were happening when we met! I'm trying not to chase the idea of who I thought he was, and trying to accept all the parts of him, ie- the negative as well as the positive. Although neither are really him in essence, they are so constantly changing that they begin to become that person, in the way they interact with the world.

Thanks for listening! This conversation and writing I've just done has actually helped me to see the importance of not separating the parts of my BPD partner. You can't dissect something if the parts are moving around and changing all the time...

So you've all helped me on my path to understanding this situation with your different input.

Thank You!
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2016, 10:52:01 PM »

The one things for me that helped me with my wife was being able to differentiate the behavior from who she is.  The behaviors are nothing more than predictable conditioned reflexes based upon every experience in her life up to this point. 

While this is helpful in reducing our reactiveness and any consequent resentment. It is not entirely true that this is some kind of subconscious reaction, and not who she is. The belief that under this overlay is a normal personality who is just the same as us, is wrong.

BPD goes to the core of their thinking and affects who they are in a complete and pervasive way. Its just not always visible.

Excerpt
predictable conditioned reflexes based upon every experience in her life up to this poin

There is a chicken and egg element here. It is not the same as you may find in post traumatic stress. Many of the things that have happened in their life are a consequence of the disorder, the results of which consolidate it.

"Normal" thinking, for want of a better word, is alien to them. This is why recovery is not really recovery, but reinvention. It is why commitment to change is hard as they have no experience of the goal, so its all hypothetical to them. All they hear is that what they have always done is wrong, and your way is just as mystical to them as theirs is to us. Its a reciepe for dispair

I hear you about this entirely.  I guess for me, I spend a great amount of time outside of the BPD world on purpose.  The label can make it all too easy not to work on oneself you know?  I spend time reading about acceptance and accepting responsibility for myself and my own needs and wants.  The truth is that I am choosing to remain in this relationship and that choice is a conscious one, therefore I can choose to not accept her and suffer because of it, OR I can choose acceptance.  The difference between who I want her to be and who she is = suffering.  Suffering is truly optional so I choose not to.  It doesn't mean I accept her bad behavior, or that I want things to be how they are now, it just means that I don't have to spend mental energy worrying or wondering why she does the things she does.  For example, my wife literally throws silverware into the sink after having made a sandwich or putting cream cheese on a bagel.  I'm not talking about from a few inches, I mean about from two feet give or take.  It is super loud and totally bizarre.  I don't know if it is a pea-cocking type of thing, or just a strange habit, but the truth is it doesn't matter.  Is it weird?  Oh my gosh yes, but is it critical in our big picture, not it is not.  Before I'd pick a fight with it, or obsess or research as to why she does this, but at one point spending dozens of hours over it I realized that it was pointless.  I could spend that time on things I enjoy and totally ignore the strange event all together. 
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2016, 10:54:46 PM »

Bi polar is a mood disorder that affects personality

BPD is a personality disorder.

Personality is what defines a person.

Bi polar can be medically treated similarly to depression to reduce its effect on the personality.

To change anyone's personality, even a healthy one, is a huge and slow task. It take a slow evolution.

Unfortunately you can't graze their personality and pick out the highlights and say that is the real them.

Ironically the high/fun/buzz of being with them is also BPD, its just not the toxic (to you) side.

Without BPD you could well have found them boring and pass them over. It was the "high" side that caught is in the first place, that was just what we needed at the time

We are a product of our life experiences, a pwBPD's life experiences have all been tainted with BPD consequences. Hence if BPD was eliminated from them overnight their life's experiences would still be BPD tainted. Hence even an exBPD has BPD scars. They do not have memory banks of "normality" to make their judgement from.

How many times do you decide what to do today based on what you did, or experienced in the past? Now imagine all your sources of reference where influenced by BPD decisions, how easy would it be to make the right choices today?

Its a hard pit for anyone to climb out of. Especially someone who has never really seen the world outside properly, so cannot really perceive it as a tangible goal. Its not a reality they know.
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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2016, 11:12:30 PM »

Radical Acceptance is not about saying a behavior is ok, it is an acknowledgment that it exists and at it is going to happen, and you dont have an effective way of changing it.

Its a bit like learning not to pee into the wind rather than trying to pee harder... . You can complain the wind is annoying, but continuing to complain about it wont change a thing.

Some of the things you accept today may be able to be changed later as the environment changes.

No doubt the example of throwing things in the sink can be multiplied by hundreds of similar examples. It is not the throwing things in the sink that is the real problem, it is the faulty thought processing and motivation that goes on in her head. That is the disordered personality. That wont be changed by arguing about throwing something in the sink.

Need Motivator: I need a knife (high)>applies effort

Responsibility motivator: put knife away (low)>applies minimal to no effort.

The only way things like this will change in the big picture is by developing more balanced and regulated motivation thought processes.

Yes you can make a drama and she may stop for a while, but the motivation in that case is not responsibility, but a need motivator to avoid you nagging or to prove a point, and need motivators are fleeting, so it doesn't last and you are back arguing the same issue again.

You end up playing whack a mole on endless small issues, constantly cycling through them but ultimately making no net progress.

The result is your head explodes with all the wasted effort
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2016, 11:29:31 PM »

Radical Acceptance is not about saying a behavior is ok, it is an acknowledgment that it exists and at it is going to happen, and you dont have an effective way of changing it.

Its a bit like learning not to pee into the wind rather than trying to pee harder... . You can complain the wind is annoying, but continuing to complain about it wont change a thing.

Some of the things you accept today may be able to be changed later as the environment changes.

No doubt the example of throwing things in the sink can be multiplied by hundreds of similar examples. It is not the throwing things in the sink that is the real problem, it is the faulty thought processing and motivation that goes on in her head. That is the disordered personality. That wont be changed by arguing about throwing something in the sink.

Need Motivator: I need a knife (high)>applies effort

Responsibility motivator: put knife away (low)>applies minimal to no effort.

The only way things like this will change in the big picture is by developing more balanced and regulated motivation thought processes.

Yes you can make a drama and she may stop for a while, but the motivation in that case is not responsibility, but a need motivator to avoid you nagging or to prove a point, and need motivators are fleeting, so it doesn't last and you are back arguing the same issue again.

You end up playing whack a mole on endless small issues, constantly cycling through them but ultimately making no net progress.

The result is your head explodes with all the wasted effort

Thus ignoring the bizarre behavior, it has nothing to do with me. 
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2016, 03:27:24 AM »

I just wanted to share this.

I referred to this post three or more times and I've marked it for printing and filing. This is a gem. Thanks Zinnia21 and BVOM for bringing this info to my attention by creating the post. I didn't expect to find something like this. Lol waverider I think I owe you a slab by now.

Radical Acceptance is not about saying a behavior is ok, it is an acknowledgment that it exists and at it is going to happen, and you dont have an effective way of changing it.

Its a bit like learning not to pee into the wind rather than trying to pee harder... . You can complain the wind is annoying, but continuing to complain about it wont change a thing.

Some of the things you accept today may be able to be changed later as the environment changes.

No doubt the example of throwing things in the sink can be multiplied by hundreds of similar examples. It is not the throwing things in the sink that is the real problem, it is the faulty thought processing and motivation that goes on in her head. That is the disordered personality. That wont be changed by arguing about throwing something in the sink.



Need Motivator: I need a knife (high)>applies effort

Responsibility motivator: put knife away (low)>applies minimal to no effort.




The only way things like this will change in the big picture is by developing more balanced and regulated motivation thought processes.


Yes you can make a drama and she may stop for a while, but the motivation in that case is not responsibility, but a need motivator to avoid you nagging or to prove a point, and need motivators are fleeting, so it doesn't last and you are back arguing the same issue again.

You end up playing whack a mole on endless small issues, constantly cycling through them but ultimately making no net progress.

The result is your head explodes with all the wasted effort

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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2016, 12:49:28 PM »

Need Motivator: I need a knife (high)>applies effort

Responsibility motivator: put knife away (low)>applies minimal to no effort.




Thank you Waverider for this. You've stated this concept in other posts and I'm finally wrapping my head around it. (Slow learner I guess.)

It's helped me not take some of these behaviors personally, which is a very good thing because I'm totally a neat freak and some of the slobbery has driven me over the edge at times, particularly when I thought it was based upon a passive aggressive attack, feeling entitled, manipulating me to do more work, not doing his share and on and on about the mind reading I indulged upon when he couldn't put a damn plate in the dishwasher or clean up jelly he smeared on the counter.

I still get annoyed, but less so, and I remind myself it's not some nefarious nasty communication on his part, it's just that he lacks motivation to be responsible. Still is irritating, but that's my choice.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2016, 06:50:54 PM »

I still get annoyed, but less so, and I remind myself it's not some nefarious nasty communication on his part, it's just that he lacks motivation to be responsible. Still is irritating, but that's my choice.

This is one area i am fully aware of but it is still frustrating. It can have a flow on affect that bothers me. For example our house is a tired 70s house that has never really been updated. It needs repainting, new kitchen and bathroom etc. i am quite capable of this, but because of the level of "slobbiness' as you say I am reluctant to knuckle down, spend the time, effort and money to do it as it will then just annoy me that it will be an even more obvious mess.

The place is always going to be a mess so I just devote my energy elsewhere
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  Reality is shared and open to debate, feelings are individual and real
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« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2016, 09:57:26 PM »

This is one area i am fully aware of but it is still frustrating. It can have a flow on affect that bothers me. For example our house is a tired 70s house that has never really been updated. It needs repainting, new kitchen and bathroom etc. i am quite capable of this, but because of the level of "slobbiness' as you say I am reluctant to knuckle down, spend the time, effort and money to do it as it will then just annoy me that it will be an even more obvious mess.

The place is always going to be a mess so I just devote my energy elsewhere

I regularly thank my lucky stars that wise mind showed up ten years ago when my husband and I were going to move in together. I knew myself well enough to know that I would be peeved by living too closely to someone else after many years on my own. I wanted to be able to put things somewhere and find them in the same place when I needed them.

So, that in mind, when we were adding onto my little house, I insisted that we also build him his own man cave. That was probably the smartest decision I ever made.

He can f* up his personal space as much as he likes, let mold grow in the shower, allow the porcelain in the toilet bowl to assume an earthy tone, create habitat for multiple spiders, grow dust bunnies the size of golf balls, and I don't care. He cleans when he feels like it, which is seldom, and then it's always a dramatic presentation about how hard he worked, how sore he is, how traumatic it was. Yeah, Buddy, I really feel sorry for you, not.

Of course I don't say this, I just smile and validate.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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