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Author Topic: Dealing with bad news - SS' BPDm is pregnant again  (Read 810 times)
catclaw
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« on: June 14, 2016, 10:16:51 AM »

Hey there.

It's been a very long time since I last came here because I had to focus on finishing University and sort out lots of Family-related stuff during the past 12 months. Busy times.

A short summary - SS 9 was diagnosed with developmental retardation (motoric and emotional deveopment) and is in traumatherapy. BPDm kept demanding Money for weird-ass reasons, even though SS has been living with us for a couple of years now, but the demanding and the behaviour related to it became more absurd lately, so that DH decided to demand child Support via our lawyer. We didn't do it until a few months ago because we didn't want to start a fire. It was clear that there would be a process and it would go to court with an order for her to get a Job to pay for her son, otherwise she would build up debt.

2 weeks after our lawyers first letter, informing her of due child Support and her duty to get a Job to make up for it, she became pregnant. What a surprise. The truth is, that we already expected this.

SS is very confused now. On the one hand, he's excited to become a brother but on the other he's afraid of what will happen. A few months back he told me "if I ever have a sibling, I want one at our home and not my mom's because i don't think she will be able to care for a Baby. She can't even care for me."

I am weirdly angry at her behaviour, even if it doesn't even affect me personally.

1. I Need to find out WHY this upsets me so much. I already have some theories.

2. I Need to find a way to talk to SS about this issue. It's been hard for me to find a way to talk to him politely about his mom, but we found a way to communicate his joys and sorrows concerning his mom. He likes to ask me questions like "If an adult you knew did this and this, how would you feel? Do you think this is OK?"  or "if you had a child, would you spend you weekends on the Sofa, even though you don't see your child that often because, let's say, it went to a boardning school?" when he Needs to sort Things at his mom's home out and I can answer honestly. But this Topic somehow is different and I'm really not sure how to deal with this conversation for the next months.

I really feel like I was making great Progress dealing with her behaviour and we had found a way to not let it bother us, but now th Situation feels somehow more stressful than ever.

Lots of love

catclaw


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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2016, 09:16:56 AM »

Adding a new baby to the mix is definitely a big change. My SD is 11 and we just had a baby a few months ago. She is crazy jealous of the attention the baby receives. She also acts kid of mean towards the baby, saying she doesn't love him and that he is too loud. Sigh. She is emotionally pretty immature (which comes from learning about emotions from an emotionally dysregulated person).

I think one thing you might have to do is a lot of reassuring that BPDmom still loves SS9. She probably won't show it, so you might have to explain that different people show love in different ways.
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2016, 01:32:09 PM »

Yes, i'm afraid that she will soon lose interest in SS. He has developed a strategy of regrading behaviour whenever his mom gets depressive, resulting in crawling on the floor, meowing like a  cat to get attention and love. She's just into everything cute and cuddly and doesn't accept SS growing older. When BPDm had a new boyfriend, he started regrading even at school. So i guess that's just one thing that will happen as soon as the baby is there. He will ask questions i'm afraid i won't be able to answer (like why mom sent him away twice, first into foster care and then to live with us because of how little time she has while being unemployed and dropping out of school again, while the baby gets to live with her) . I guess i'm just tired of always having to put up with her irresponsible behaviour towards SS resulting in him having a hard time. I chose to have him living with DH and me, but sometimes the responsibility for dealing with her issues through the little one is just overwhelming.
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2016, 09:35:18 PM »

If she's pregnant or has a baby/toddler then your court may not order her to find a job or set the order on hold until the child is older, perhaps preschool age.  Social services and welfare rules may vary from state to state but it might be her way to avoid working.
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catclaw
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2016, 12:54:06 AM »

Exactly. I mean, he has been living with us for some time now and she gets pregnant just after she feels pressured by court to get a job. She's 28 and hasn't ever worked. She receives welfare since she's 16. Where I live she gets 3 years after having a baby in which she can't be obligated to work. Which, in general, is a good thing. But we've seen her sacrificing her son for financial reasons over and over during the past 7 years and now she's having another baby to avoid having to pay which seems so wrong to me. And my main concern is how to talk to SS about it. Because i know he will ask questions 

My basic understanding of making life choices is, that everyone has the right to ruin their own life. But having a kid and thus responsibilities towards another human being who can't choose whether they want their life ruined or not, to me, changes the whole thing. I know i can't change her making irresponsible choices, but i somehow can't stop feeling angry.
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catclaw
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2016, 11:57:44 AM »

Now she wants to have him over more weekends. She has him eow. Even that is too much for her. Ss tells us that everytime he's there, the one to take care of him, cooks, plans and goes to activities with him is the new bf. Bpdm is too busy lying on the sofa and feeling ill. Not because she's pregnant, mind you, it's been like this for years now. Ss says she has to calm down from the busy week (again, she doesn't work. She tells ss that groceries and laundry and cleaning up is just so overwhelming). If the bf doesn't have time, ss is being "dropped off" (as he puts it himself) with his ex foster family in the morning until late afternoon. This family is part of a weird cult-like congregation and are their own kind of crazy.

She asked dh to keep in mind that an additional weekend would be a fair deal for ss to "get used to the situation" (which one? Bpdm being pregnant? I don't understand the claim  ) and doesn't want court or any neutral party involved.

Like... how would you react to this? This should be  a case for the court, shouldn't it?
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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2016, 12:21:13 PM »

Now she wants to have him over more weekends. She has him eow. Even that is too much for her. Ss tells us that everytime he's there, the one to take care of him, cooks, plans and goes to activities with him is the new bf. Bpdm is too busy lying on the sofa and feeling ill. Not because she's pregnant, mind you, it's been like this for years now. Ss says she has to calm down from the busy week (again, she doesn't work. She tells ss that groceries and laundry and cleaning up is just so overwhelming). If the bf doesn't have time, ss is being "dropped off" (as he puts it himself) with his ex foster family in the morning until late afternoon. This family is part of a weird cult-like congregation and are their own kind of crazy.

She asked dh to keep in mind that an additional weekend would be a fair deal for ss to "get used to the situation" (which one? Bpdm being pregnant? I don't understand the claim  ) and doesn't want court or any neutral party involved.

Like... how would you react to this? This should be  a case for the court, shouldn't it?

My reaction would be "No". No need to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Engage). We'll follow the court order as it is written until it is changed.

She doesn't want to involve the courts because she thinks she can manipulate you guys into giving up more time than she would realistically get from a judge.

If it went as far as her filing a motion with the court, I would suggest having a CE or a GAL involved so they can hear the things SS is saying. She may end up with even less time then she gets right now.
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"Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength."

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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2016, 12:26:27 PM »

Alternate weekends is virtually written in stone for most parenting schedules.  Some variations are 2 weekends out of 4/5 in a month.  Also, some with unusual schedules (police, fire, hospital, etc) where they work most weekends can have much of their parenting time shifted to midweek on their days off.  For a parent, especially a mother, to be limited to fewer or shorter weekends generally means mother has been determined to have substantive issues even if it wasn't directly put in writing by the court.

I wouldn't give up even a minute of your weekends.  If she's wanting longer weekends then, "Stick to the schedule" is a good refrain and boundary.  Let the court's order, especially when it is to your advantage, be the scapegoat, shift the 'blame' to the lawyers and court.  Most here have found that relaxing what orders we do have is seen as weakness and just invites more pushing and guilting demands.
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catclaw
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2016, 12:56:29 AM »

My reaction would be "No". No need to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Engage). We'll follow the court order as it is written until it is changed.

If it went as far as her filing a motion with the court, I would suggest having a CE or a GAL involved so they can hear the things SS is saying. She may end up with even less time then she gets right now.

We don't have a court order so far. Where I live you have to to anything possible to find a way to get along with the other parent (counselling, mediaton etc, even if you have to pay for it all by yourself if you're the only one able to afford it). If you can't prove you have done this, this and this to get to a schedule without involving courts, they might count it as a no-go and not doing enough to build a stable relationship with the otehr parent to meet the child's Needs. DH and BPDx had some talks with a 3rd Party that had to be cut off because BPXx got so angry she left the room after she started ranting at DH for minutes. We had 3 or 4 lawyers involved, all of whom gave up on the case (excpet for this 1 that was about a weird heritage SS received from some distant relative on BPDm's side that we had to get rid of because it was nothing but debt, otherwise SS would have been in debt with tens of thousands due to BPDm missing the Deadline to inform DH about it). The others tried to get Information from CPS that was withheld from DH to find out why SS was inf foster care but CPS were so enmeshed with BPDx (it's astory you wouldn't believe if I told you. no one actually does, but we have it all in written form and it's reconstructible by just the paperwork we collected) that they didn't tell DH (who has 50% custoy) anything because they are obligued to protect BPDm's privacy. Yuck. SO afte the 2nd attpemt every lawyer we had said "well, we're not going to get that Information. they insist on the privacy rights of the mother" and if we went to court, we would have lost at least 20,000 with Little possible success. We were stuck in this System forcing us to just"get along" with BPDm. Last summer she demanded cash for the vacations. DH called SS' case Manager and she said "well, if his mom doesn't have the Money and you do, at least offer to pay for her expenses. If you ever go to court and the judge sees you didn't care for the child's Needs when on Visitation, it might be bad for your credibility"... .We don't have a court order so far. Where I live you have to to anything possible to find a way to get along with the other parent (counselling, mediaton etc, even if you have to pay for it all by yourself if you're the only one able to afford it). If you can't prove you have done this, this and this to get to a schedule without involving courts, they might count it as a no-go and not doing enough to build a stable relationship with the otehr parent to meet the child's Needs. DH and BPDx had some talks with a 3rd Party that had to be cut off because BPXx got so angry she left the room after she started ranting at DH for minutes. We had 3 or 4 lawyers involved, all of whom gave up on the case (excpet for this 1 that was about a weird heritage SS received from some distant relative on BPDm's side that we had to get rid of because it was nothing but debt, otherwise SS would have been in debt with tens of thousands due to BPDm missing the Deadline to inform DH about it). The others tried to get Information from CPS that was withheld from DH to find out why SS was inf foster care but CPS were so enmeshed with BPDx (it's astory you wouldn't believe if I told you. no one actually does, but we have it all in written form and it's reconstructible by just the paperwork we collected) that they didn't tell DH (who has 50% custoy) anything because they are obligued to protect BPDm's privacy. Yuck. SO afte the 2nd attpemt every lawyer we had said "well, we're not going to get that Information. they insist on the privacy rights of the mother" and if we went to court, we would have lost at least 20,000 with Little possible success. We were stuck in this System forcing us to just"get along" with BPDm. Last summer she demanded cash for the vacations. DH called SS' case Manager and she said "well, if his mom doesn't have the Money and you do, at least offer to pay for her expenses. If you ever go to court and the judge sees you didn't care for the child's Needs when on Visitation, it might be bad for your credibility"... .But, yeah, after some other crazy stuff, recently the case worker changed her mind regarding this case as she has seen that giving in to every demand would be beyond our financial and human possibilities. and having a really bold an fierce lawyer doesn't hurt either ^^

Long Story short, it's the first time we're going for a court order. SS is in therapy now, this was another Thing that our lawyer recommended us to do before going to court. We were lucky to get a therapy place for SS, as some therapists have waiting lists of more than a year.
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catclaw
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2016, 01:13:58 AM »

Alternate weekends is virtually written in stone for most parenting schedules.

I wouldn't give up even a minute of your weekends. 

You're right, it's the regular schedule that is ordered by Courts most of the time. Some try the 50/50 model which in our case wouldn't work, simply because of the distance. She lives too far away from us to have SS going to School from there. Midweek visitations have always been problematic - SS came back home, didn't have any of his homework done, had been dragged around Shops by BPDm (Saying thinks like "i have seen this and this at the toy store, bu tit was too expensive for my mom, but she said, maybe you could buy it?"  and sometimes was just taken to some of her friends to Play video games while BPDm was getting ready for going out at night. No substancial Quality time was spent at all. We tried it 4 or 5 times and it was always the same.

That's the Thing, we are here, doing all the duties during the week, being the bad cops for School related stuff and the only times we really have to go out and do nice Things and bigger activities with SS are "our" Weekends. We are 100% not giving up on any of the time.
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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2016, 07:41:04 PM »

That's the Thing, we are here, doing all the duties during the week, being the bad cops for School related stuff and the only times we really have to go out and do nice Things and bigger activities with SS are "our" Weekends. We are 100% not giving up on any of the time.

Well the courts expect you to attempt to cooperate but that doesn't mean you have to give into every demand. 

It's important for a child to alternate weekends with each parent, believe me... .For awhile uBPDbm forced us into a schedule where she had SD during the week (M-TH) and we had SD EVERY weekend (FRI-School start mon morning). SD was miserable. We had fun with her but she wanted at least one weekend with her mom.

Could you say something about how it is important for SS to spend that weekend "fun" time with both families so you will all stick to the current schedule, and if she would like to make changes they can be negotiated in mediation/court?
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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2016, 04:27:39 AM »

Well the courts expect you to attempt to cooperate but that doesn't mean you have to give into every demand. 

unfortunately, we experienced it differently. We hope that it's going to be different in the actual court - Mediators weren't really helpful. They just try to get to an Agreement and if one side (BPDm) is not moving towards any Kinds of Agreement, DH is asked to do so for SS' sake.



Excerpt
It's important for a child to alternate weekends with each parent, believe me... .For awhile uBPDbm forced us into a schedule where she had SD during the week (M-TH) and we had SD EVERY weekend (FRI-School start mon morning). SD was miserable. We had fun with her but she wanted at least one weekend with her mom.

That's a really really good advise! Thanks! I have never heard about families with this Agreement. I read into different schedules and the pros and cons, but everything is so theoretical. Can you tell me more about it? Like, how did she force you into it, how did your SD react and was she able to verbalize what was wrong?

I think of BPDm as the typical weekend-disneyland mom, just without the disneyland part. No pressure, no obligations, just doing her Thing and let SS do the same. Unlimited computer and TV time, fast food or even no food at all. I heard of Weekends with BPDm when she bought 25 doughnuts and put them in the kitchen. These were breakfast, lunch and dinner for SS for 2 days.

Excerpt
Could you say something about how it is important for SS to spend that weekend "fun" time with both families so you will all stick to the current schedule, and if she would like to make changes they can be negotiated in mediation/court?

She wants 3 out of 4 Weekends. So far, DH hasn't said anything. SS' case Manager said that we should wait until after our Holidays until we discuss this. She's been demanding a talk with DH, me and SS for almost 2 years now. DH told her he will not have any conersation a) with SS in the room and b) without a neutral 3rd Party and gave her the possibility to make a date at whatever neutral 3rd party she wanted, but she never did, despite asking over and over when "that talk" is going to happen.

She will not go to court by herself (can't afford it on her own and social security only pays for a lawyer if the case has any Chance of being successful, which it doesn't in this case) and she will by no means go to a mediator. So we will be the ones to have to go to court. As we don't receive benefits like she and her bf do, we will have to pay for both the court and (if court ordered) the Mediation, which will be financially very hard for us.

Plus, SS has mastered Splitting. He tells BPDm that we always demand so much and that he has to read for hours and that every day we punish him with extra homework. School is her trigger. She gets really upset with everything School related and thinks SS is just too Little to read and write (he's almost 9) and Needs more time to Play and a School that doesn't demand practising. Yeah, right. So she has this delusional Fantasy of a soul-crushed SS reading a huge old book by candle light in his room the whole Weekend while all the other Kids are playing in the sunshine. As for midweek, she even verbalized it similarly. By telling her about "fun time" she will only get triggered more I think :/
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2016, 01:36:25 PM »

Well the courts expect you to attempt to cooperate but that doesn't mean you have to give into every demand. 

unfortunately, we experienced it differently. We hope that it's going to be different in the actual court - Mediators weren't really helpful. They just try to get to an Agreement and if one side (BPDm) is not moving towards any Kinds of Agreement, DH is asked to do so for SS' sake.

Then you need better mediators.  An experienced mediator will know when a deal can't be worked out.  However, if you're weak on that boundary and give the impression that when push comes to shove that you'll blink and the Ex won't, well... .

If neither party will budge or reasonably negotiate, doesn't that mean the court decides?  What's so bad about that?  Oftentimes a judge's decision is less unfair than anything the Ex would agree to, though admittedly more expensive to obtain.

Could you say something about how it is important for SS to spend that weekend "fun" time with both families so you will all stick to the current schedule, and if she would like to make changes they can be negotiated in mediation/court?

She wants 3 out of 4 Weekends.

No court (I hope) would order that without substantive basis.  Alternate weekends are so universal in most parenting schedules.  Exceptions might be for emergency workers that have to work weekends and get midweek time instead.  However, sometimes the deal is that one parent gets the fifth weekend, if a month has one.  But then the alternate weekends get bumped around a lot, so ponder whether you want that change.  And if the schedule is for equal time then that could slant a slight edge of majority time to her.

Was the court order/schedule ever modified to reflect that SS is now with DH and you the majority of time for the past two school years?  Does DH still have majority time?  Some strategies to ponder:

  • If she has equal or majority time in the court order, then get the now-established parenting history that is now solidly in Dad's favor made official in writing.


  • Along with that you could decide whether to allow her to have the fifth weekend in some months, about 4 per year.  However, don't offer it or Gift it without getting some things as trade-offs.  Maybe this minor accommodation could be used as Leverage to get concessions on other things you need to make parenting less frustrating.  See the next ideas which could be part of an eventual 'deal'.


  • With Dad having majority time he also ought to be Residential parent for School Purposes.  Once he gets that then he may be able to get better school cooperation.


  • One problem you and so many have is that many activities can get sabotaged with joint legal custody.  Courts generally presume there will be cooperation or at least not obstruction.  Our cases are exceptions of course.  Can DH seek to modify the joint legal custody so that he has Decision Making or Tie Breaker status?  That can work when the court doesn't see enough basis to change to sole legal custody.  This allows mother to still say she custody is joint legal but gives DH authority to proceed once he's discussed an issue with Ex.


  • Remember, don't budge an inch or Gift anything unless she also gives up something.  No one-way deals.
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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2016, 02:58:17 PM »

Excerpt
It's important for a child to alternate weekends with each parent, believe me... .For awhile uBPDbm forced us into a schedule where she had SD during the week (M-TH) and we had SD EVERY weekend (FRI-School start mon morning). SD was miserable. We had fun with her but she wanted at least one weekend with her mom.

That's a really really good advise! Thanks! I have never heard about families with this Agreement. I read into different schedules and the pros and cons, but everything is so theoretical. Can you tell me more about it? Like, how did she force you into it, how did your SD react and was she able to verbalize what was wrong?

I think of BPDm as the typical weekend-disneyland mom, just without the disneyland part. No pressure, no obligations, just doing her Thing and let SS do the same. Unlimited computer and TV time, fast food or even no food at all. I heard of Weekends with BPDm when she bought 25 doughnuts and put them in the kitchen. These were breakfast, lunch and dinner for SS for 2 days.

uBPDbm was really manipulative, that's how she forced the schedule on us. She told aftercare that DH couldn't pick SD up. When that didn't work, uBPDbm would pick SD up from school early, drop her off alone at her apartment, then go back to work. Eventually she pulled SD out of aftercare all together and made SD ride the bus to an empty apartment. She was 8 at the time. 

uBPDbm would rage at SD and be so insistent that DH was "not allowed" to pick her up that it stressed SD out. If DH would show up at aftercare, SD would have a meltdown and start crying that she didn't want to go with her dad. Five minutes into the car ride with him, however, and everything was hunky dory.

SD isn't very good with expressing her emotions properly and was being emotionally manipulated, it was a very hard time for her. Her mom would make promises to spend the weekend with her, then we would show up on Friday to pick her up and she would completely meltdown. During the week her mom would work until 6pm at the earliest but typically she wouldn't get home until 7 or 8pm. Then bedtime for SD is 9pm. So even though she was with her mom for four days, they were spending mere hours together.
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2016, 05:03:43 PM »

uBPDbm would rage at SD and be so insistent that DH was "not allowed" to pick her up that it stressed SD out. If DH would show up at aftercare, SD would have a meltdown and start crying that she didn't want to go with her dad. Five minutes into the car ride with him, however, and everything was hunky dory.

And so of course aftercare was meant to get the wrong impression.  Probably that's way in the past but one way for aftercare to get a Reality Check would have been, once his D calmed down, to say, "Oh, I forgot to tell aftercare something", then return with D behaving happy just like any other kid and quietly pointing that out to the staff or director, that her prior stress was due to the parental discord.
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« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2016, 05:23:14 AM »

    Then you need better mediators.  An experienced mediator will know when a deal can't be worked out.  However, if you're weak on that boundary and give the impression that when push comes to shove that you'll blink and the Ex won't, well... .

    Maybe Mediator is the wrong term - I'm not native in English so sorry for the confusion :S We went to (presumably) neutral 3rd parties. There are public Services for parents to help with negotiations after a break-up. If the parents were never married, it doesn't go to court in most cases. This was the case with DH - they share custody of SS, but there hasn't been a court involved for scheduling matters. We tried to avoid it because of how unstable SS' mental health was and we had to wait for a Placement in therapy (this is what every lawyer suggests when it Comes Close to Family court). Since 2014, his main home is with us. He goes to School here, he has his therapies and all of his friends here. She lives a few towns away as only sees him EOW. Is this what alternate Weekends and majority of time means?

    Public Services will try to come to an Agreement to avoid court, no matter what. I find it hard to understand. BPDm says "yo, I spent all my Money for new furniture and can't affort to take SS to the zoo, i Need you to give me some Money, otherwise he will not understand why we can't do anything and it would be really sad for him". DH asked what he ought to do and they said "well, if you can afford it, why don't you just pay for the zoo? you avoid lots of stress this way". I'm thinking if I Crash my car and tell my neighbour "well, i will Need a new car after i crashed mine into your wall, you should buy me a ferrari" no one would tell my neighbour "well, if you can afford it, at least buy her a VW polo. you avoid lots of stress this way". I know this example is weird  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) but that's what we were suggested. it's just one example ot of many.

    Excerpt


    If neither party will budge or reasonably negotiate, doesn't that mean the court decides?  What's so bad about that?  Oftentimes a judge's decision is less unfair than anything the Ex would agree to, though admittedly more expensive to obtain.



    We hope so. The next Thing will be to find a way to fix a schedule. As we know that anything inofficial will not work, tehre WILL have to be a court order. There are countless examples of trying to establish a phone schedule for BPDm and SS that turned out to be rubbish because she just didn't feel like it. SS' reaction? "well, mom Forgets Things, that's just how she is"

    Excerpt


    • With Dad having majority time he also ought to be Residential parent for School Purposes.  Once he gets that then he may be able to get better school cooperation.


    • One problem you and so many have is that many activities can get sabotaged with joint legal custody.  Courts generally presume there will be cooperation or at least not obstruction.  Our cases are exceptions of course.  Can DH seek to modify the joint legal custody so that he has Decision Making or Tie Breaker status?  That can work when the court doesn't see enough basis to change to sole legal custody.  This allows mother to still say she custody is joint legal but gives DH authority to proceed once he's discussed an issue with Ex.


    • Remember, don't budge an inch or Gift anything unless she also gives up something.  No one-way deals.

    We have it in written form that DH can make decisions concerning School, medical issues and bureaucratical/financial decisions on SS' behalf in everyday life without having every Little Thing discussed (like e.g. School activities, doctor's appointmen, Play Dates a friends' houses). We have one copy, the city's Office and CPS have a legitimized copy. We have to Show it whenever we do anything. It's funny, because if I am to so something with SS, like making adentist's appointment, I have to carry the sheet that says DH is allowed to These Things by BPDm AND a sheet that says DH allows ME to get These Things done with SS. It makes a lot of Things easier.

    We hope for DH to get sole custody one day, but we're so hesistant regarding the process and putting SS in the middle of all this.
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