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Author Topic: Endless texts, no respect for personal time  (Read 501 times)
AEJ

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
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« on: June 15, 2016, 03:28:35 PM »

I'm am in my early 30s and in a relationship with a girl around the same age. We've been together for 3+ years. I love her very much and have every intention of marrying her.

She is not formally diagnosed with BPD (nor am I asking for a diagnosis), but in reading the stories here and in other places, it is uncanny.  I'm not sure how hard it is to get an official diagnosis, nor do I want to push her too hard in that direction.  For what it is worth, she initially brought BPD up to me and mentioned that she shows many of these traits. That is when I started looking into it myself and finding the same thing.

She has been seeing a therapist focusing on cbt/dbt for a bit, and I'm very proud of her for sticking to it even though it seems pointless to her a lot of the time.

I've been reading up on BPD and relationships for the past few weeks and it is evident that I still have a lot to learn. The more I read, the more

I find myself saying "yes, this is her."  There is one specific issue that I am having that I can't seem to find anybody else talking about and I was hoping that somebody here would have advice for me.

So, she has trouble coping with problems in life, and of course, she comes to me about them.  That is what a relationship is - we all depend on other people in our lives.  I'm more than willing to be there for her when she needs me, but I feel this happens far too often without regard to my time, my plans and my personal space.  If I am not (or can not be) there for her when she is having an issue, it becomes an endless barrage of texts.  Asking her to delay the conversation until a later time when I am free results in anger or a passive-aggressive "fine, I don't want to talk about it later" or "it isn't convenient for me later, so I guess we don't talk about it at all.  Where does that leave me?"  I feel powerless to stop this.

For example: There can be a perfectly good day where everything is moving along just fine, but when her anxiety starts to take control, she will begin texting me and telling me that she is anxious and panicking about such and such.  Answering the question: "I'm tired because I didn't get much sleep last night. I have a lot to do tonight. Should I just skip the gym tonight?" will often quickly turn into a complete anxiety-induced spiral about the ripple effect of every minute detail of going to the gym or skipping it.  There is no option that will satisfy her, and it will often turn into a text conversation that takes HOURS.  I'm not talking about sending a text, putting the phone down for 20 minutes and answering another text.  I'm talking about endless texting back and forth for two or three hours with no resolution to anything in sight. And one problem just moves to the next, to the next and to the next until every worry on her mind is out, no resolution is made, we are both extremely frustrated, and one of us blows up at the other one.

I've gotten into work slightly late because this will sometimes happen in the morning, and I eventually have to put my foot down and leave (which leaves us both anxious and angry).  I remember one morning specifically when I had slept over and had just left her house slightly late for work after a conversation about something she was dealing with that particular day.  I got about 5 minutes down the road and she was texting me about it.  I was at a red light and wrote back "I'm driving into work, I can't talk right now." and I received the reply, "You can NEVER talk." This was after two or three days of talking to her in the evening for hours.  It hurt me pretty bad.

I've talked to her for hours at work.  I used to have the free time to do this, but I've taken on a new position and I've VERY busy almost all the time.  One conversation will lead into another into another.  Before I know it, an hour has passed and I haven't even thought about work. Even when

I DO try to put my foot down and tell her that I can't talk because I am busy at work, it STILL takes me 30 minutes to get her to stop, and I normally have to be VERY forceful. There are all kinds of guilt-ridden statements, or her just totally ignoring my statement that I need to go and clamoring on with her issues.  This often leads to her bottling things up for the next few days until it all explodes. I suggest that we talk later, and she asks me what she is supposed to do with the rest of the day until it is convenient for me to talk.  She also points out that it may not be convenient for her at that time.  I know I can't answer this, but it makes me feel bad for not being able to help her.  This leaves me in a state where I am not able to go back to my job.  It really hurts my productivity at work and I can't have that.  In fact, I am writing this right now while I am sitting at my desk.  I should be doing other things, but I just can't concentrate... .it makes me feel empty and overwhelmed.

In the evenings after work, I've avoided paying my bills, cutting my lawn, or cleaning my house on certain nights more times than I can count because she needs to talk about these things. It is okay for this to happen from time to time - we all need each other, and I really don't mind rearranging some plans when she is in pain, but when it is 2 hours during the day at work, then 3 hours in the evening - it really takes a toll on my personal space.  I don't feel it is fair to me.  I feel like I need to clear it with her and make sure she is okay mentally before I go outside and do something, or silence my phone for a movie.  If I do silence my phone and try to unwind a little bit, my anxiety starts to take a hold of me and I have to do everything in my power to not check my phone for a freak out every five minutes.  So, I can't even relax due to the thought that she isn't able to and she might need me.

The problem I have with these conversations is that they don't end.  There is no, "I will let you get on with your night."  If that does happen, it comes from a passive place where she is expecting me to say "oh no, it is okay, let's keep talking if you need to keep talking."  There is an expectation there that I will be able to fix her problems and solve all of her issues.  There are times when I offer my advice on what I would do in that scenario.  When I do that, I'm later told that she just wants me to listen to her.  So, when I listen to her, I am told that I should offer my advice.  When I ask which one she wants from me, I'm told that if we can't communicate effectively after three years, what hope do we have?  I pretty much get stuck in a loop where there is no way to satisfy her, nor is there a way out of the conversation.  So, I will eventually throw my hands up and get passive with her.  At times, I have delayed responding to her texts as much as I can (I find this VERY hard and I feel miserable about it), or I will just tell her that I need the night off.  This ends up with her exploding a night or two later, and me apologizing about not being there for her, for hurting her and promising that I will work on it.

Last night, I got home and had to get some stuff done around my house.  She sent me a text that said "this is not me freaking out, but... ." and told me some news about the health of someone in her family.  I told her that I was sorry to hear that (I truly am).  She had errands to run, so she said she was going to get to that and I went on with my evening.  A while later, she texted me about another issue... .and another... .and another. 

I was responding and telling her that I'm sorry she is struggling, I told her that I understand how she feels bad because of x, y and z. My brain went into "here we go again" mode and I shut down.  I'm tired of putting the things I need to do in my life on hold because she is stressed and expects me to fix everything.

I've tried insisting that we talk on the phone instead of through text.  Number one, it is faster, and number two, a lot can get misconstrued through text.  This has lead to some ridiculous arguments and conversations.  So, I insist on phone conversations - which never end up going any better than the text conversations and normally end up taking upwards of an hour anyway.  She is normally in tears by the end of it, and has told me multiple times that she doesn't even know why she tried talking to me about these things because I always make her feel worse.  Statements like this hurt me a lot and just push me away from wanting to help her at all.  After the phone conversation ends miserably, she normally ends up texting me about things anyway.

I've tried bringing my feeling up with her before, and there are a lot of times where she will respond by saying, "not to be a jerk or act like I don't care, but I'm really struggling with these things." Basically telling me that she doesn't have time to care for my feelings in these moments.  These episodes have ended a few times with me completely losing it, breaking down and crying to a point that is only surpassed by the death of a close family member.  After this happens, she will normally pretty quickly come back to earth and comfort me.  After that, we normally can move on and have a pretty normal night.  It is really strange.  It just takes days for it to get there sometimes, and it has ruined a lot of our time together.

So, how do I balance being there for her, but not allowing it to eat into my personal time or effect my life in such a large way?  How do I talk through her worries and her issues with her, but still not allow her to walk all over me?  If I do put my foot down, how do I deal with the repercussions of that?  Of course, there will be times when I need to talk her through something and help her with it, but it gets ridiculous.  I guess I need help figuring out where those boundaries should be and how to effectively discuss them and stick to them.

Earlier, I told her that I could not talk right now because I am very busy at work.  We have plans tonight and she is already texting me telling me that she doesn't even want to go through with them, nor does she want me to sleep over as I was planning to do.  I used to insist on sleeping over and always wanted to hash things out, but quite frankly, I'm tired of being the one to insist on this.  I know how this story goes - I go over there and we go through with our plans.  I get back to her house, we both go to bed. We wake up the next morning and head into work.  At some point in there, her anxiety will calm down and mood will improve and she will apologize to me (as she did less than 48 hours ago about something over the weekend).  I just have no idea when that will be... .but it seems like the point where I will regain normal control of my life is entirely up to her.  If she tells me she doesn't want me there tonight - well, I guess I'll finally call her bluff and just go home, but I don't know if that is the right move.

Despite all of this... .I do love her and I certainly do wish to marry her. She has many wonderful qualities and I really don't want to make her sound like the devil... .she really isn't and I really don't think she is capable of seeing these problems in the moment.
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flourdust
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: In the process of divorce after 12 year marriage
Posts: 1663



« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2016, 07:38:15 PM »

Despite all of this... .I do love her and I certainly do wish to marry her. She has many wonderful qualities and I really don't want to make her sound like the devil... .she really isn't and I really don't think she is capable of seeing these problems in the moment.

OK... .

To start with, I suggest you go to Tools at the top of the screen and read the sections on Setting Boundaries and Validation Skills. There's also a lesson on here somewhere about radical acceptance. That's another one I recommend.

The bottom line is that the problems you are having with your girlfriend will not get better when you get married. They are likely to get worse. You can try validation (and related techniques such as SET) to attempt to escape from the endless circular conversations without making her feel bad. You may have some success with that. You may not. You can attempt to set boundaries so that you leave the circular conversations (and endless texting) when they are interfering with your life, regardless of whether or not she is happy about your choice. And you should consider what the implications are if you come to accept that this is how she is and she will not get better.

I think it's valuable to try to use these tools, to see if you can regain control of your life. Be advised that if you're not feeding her need to take up all of your time, she might get explosively angry and aggressive with you, like nothing you have experienced before. At minimum, I encourage you to put off any thoughts of marriage until you see if you are able to improve your relationship by using these tools. If you can't improve it, or if it gets worse, then marriage is a bad choice.
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AEJ

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 4


« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2016, 08:08:20 AM »

Thank you for the time you took in reading my post and replying to it. I have hesitated getting engaged in the past because of these struggles. I've always been under the impression that things could change and get better. Recently, I've realized that this might not be the case and I'm struggling with accepting that it may be a forever thing. That is why I'm starting to do this research and trying to learn how to handle this relationship. I appreciate your honesty and suggestions. I'll be sure to look at those resources and consider what you said. Thanks again.
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an0ught
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2016, 10:01:13 AM »

Hi AEJ,

this is a lot about boundary skills. Years ago I spent a fortune on pointless circular phone calls (that was before phone became cheap). Not anymore. Even my wife learned to recognize this abusive communication and protects herself from her mothers calls.

In the end it boils down to values - how much do you value your time and peace vs keeping her happy in the very short run and risking that she is upset and leaves.

Check out the LESSONS post on boundaries and timeout workshop. Prepare a SET statement (see Validation, SET workshops) to prepare her for hangup/timeout. Do it. Brace for the extinction burst. Sooth upset/unfairness/despair with validation. Be diligent not to slip back to old behavior as that makes it worse. Repeat the process 1-5 times. Most likely problem solved and a few others as well.

It takes a little prep, some practice beforehand with validation/SET, commitment and some willingness to accept risks.
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flourdust
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: In the process of divorce after 12 year marriage
Posts: 1663



« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2016, 11:10:09 AM »

Hi AEJ,

this is a lot about boundary skills. Years ago I spent a fortune on pointless circular phone calls (that was before phone became cheap). Not anymore. Even my wife learned to recognize this abusive communication and protects herself from her mothers calls.

In the end it boils down to values - how much do you value your time and peace vs keeping her happy in the very short run and risking that she is upset and leaves.

Check out the LESSONS post on boundaries and timeout workshop. Prepare a SET statement (see Validation, SET workshops) to prepare her for hangup/timeout. Do it. Brace for the extinction burst. Sooth upset/unfairness/despair with validation. Be diligent not to slip back to old behavior as that makes it worse. Repeat the process 1-5 times. Most likely problem solved and a few others as well.

It takes a little prep, some practice beforehand with validation/SET, commitment and some willingness to accept risks.

I agree with your recommendations, although I think the bolded statement above is quite optimistic. Improvement is possible, but if it was as easy as all that, these boards would be almost empty.
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waverider
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Relationship status: married 8 yrs, together 16yrs
Posts: 7405


If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2016, 08:08:15 PM »

When they ask us to fix their problems and make decisions for them, they dont want us to fix their problems and make decisions for them. They actually want us to validate their anxiety, hence the reason they duck and avoid all our attempts to "fix" things for them. They also get frustrated because we hear their questions rather than what they actually need ie. validation not fixing.

Classic miscommunication

Immediate gratification is why they are inconsiderate as to when they text/phone
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an0ught
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2016, 04:26:49 AM »

Hi flourdust,

In the end it boils down to values - how much do you value your time and peace vs keeping her happy in the very short run and risking that she is upset and leaves.

Check out the LESSONS post on boundaries and timeout workshop. Prepare a SET statement (see Validation, SET workshops) to prepare her for hangup/timeout. Do it. Brace for the extinction burst. Sooth upset/unfairness/despair with validation. Be diligent not to slip back to old behavior as that makes it worse. Repeat the process 1-5 times. Most likely problem solved and a few others as well.

It takes a little prep, some practice beforehand with validation/SET, commitment and some willingness to accept risks.

I agree with your recommendations, although I think the bolded statement above is quite optimistic. Improvement is possible, but if it was as easy as all that, these boards would be almost empty.

You are right it is not easy at all. But it is that simple. In BPD there is a huge difference between the two.

The way BPD works it results in driving conflict and complexity. Our lives over time became more and more bizarre. We are walking on eggshells, follow more and more unwritten and increasingly complex rules. For a long time pwBPD were seen as hopeless cases as any attempt to resolve the complications in their lives just resulted in more drama. The insight that is behind the invention of DBT therapy was that in a pwBPD emotional regulation is broken. Helping the pwBPD to regulate better and behavior moderates.

What has this to do with you? PwPBD tend to loop you into their emotional regulation. She is using you to make sense and keeping somewhat level. It may have worked at the beginning but her need grew and you got exhausted. It is not working well anymore but sometimes it does and that keeps her trying with no limit. You find more on the emotional regulation here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=221022.0 . The LESSONS are structured in a way to support this process. For us as partners the key skills are validation and boundaries. Help regulation where appropriate - ensure our partner does their part as well.

Boundaries stop the abuse of you to regulate her emotions (she invalidates you and then you her // she exhausts your ability to validate). She then has to self sooth. She can't do that well but it is something she has to learn.

The first serious boundaries in a relationship are game changers. They shift power significantly. Don't underestimate the change. Don't underestimate the preparation effort it takes to get there. It took me over a year on the board working on validation skills and rebuilding the basics before I tackled boundaries. Boundaries then were a few weeks drama. But then things got better for me. And she is doing better as well.
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  Writing is self validation. Writing on bpdfamily is self validation squared!
AEJ

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 4


« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2016, 04:24:54 PM »

Deepest apologies that it has taken me so long to get back to all of you.  Thank you all so much for the advice.

an0ught-

I was able to set my foot down recently, and it has helped a lot.  I just need to figure out how to walk to line between being there for her (after all, I am her boyfriend) and allowing my time to be abused.  I just need to remind myself that I need to reinforce this.  She's been very understanding this last week or so after I finally told her that I needed my time respected.

flourdust-

Appreciate your input, too.  I know that it is a rocky road ahead of me, and I am under no false thoughts that it will be easy one bit.

waverider-

I've been working on ways to validate the anxiety in a healthy manner without trying to solve her issues, but I sometimes sound like a robot with the whole "I understand you are frustrated at ________ for _______" and then telling her something along the lines of, "you know this is not my problem to solve" when she becomes insistent.  It becomes a little repetitive, and can still lead to the demand for an answer, but we are working on that.

Yes, I find that immediate gratification thing to be true with most people today - especially in a workplace scenario with clients and customers.  "I sent you an email at 8pm on Saturday and you aren't responding to me until 10am Monday morning?"  I hear that one a bunch.  ... .but yea, I've said it a million times that texting is the worst thing to ever happen to our relationship. I do enjoy being able to stay in touch throughout the day, but it leaves us with next to nothing to talk about at the dinner table.

an0ught (2nd post)-

This is an awesome post and I appreciate the time it took in you writing it.  There seem to be a lot of good things mentioned in it and it seems like you know what you're talking about.  So, thanks a ton.  I kind of do feel bad for coming here and "airing our dirty laundry." I just have to keep reminding myself that this is anonymous and that this is something that I need to do for myself and (bigger picture) for our relationship and happiness in the future.

Once again, thanks to EVERYONE who took the time to reply.  It is really awesome.
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waverider
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2016, 06:19:13 PM »

The most important consequence of knowing about validation is that you learn how not to invalidate. If in doubt concentrate on not invalidating. Often listening but saying nothing is better than trying clumsy validation at times.

Excerpt
you know this is not my problem to solve

This is in itself invalidating. You are telling her what she thinks with a touch of abandonment. Focus on what YOU think, try "I can't solve this for you, how do you think you can solve it?"
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AEJ

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 4


« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2016, 09:07:51 PM »

The most important consequence of knowing about validation is that you learn how not to invalidate. If in doubt concentrate on not invalidating. Often listening but saying nothing is better than trying clumsy validation at times.

Excerpt
you know this is not my problem to solve

This is in itself invalidating. You are telling her what she thinks with a touch of abandonment. Focus on what YOU think, try "I can't solve this for you, how do you think you can solve it?"

I clearly have a lot to learn.  It is tough to think on your feet like that... .makes it feel like I'm on eggshells for a whole different reason, but I guess I need to accept that I'm doing it for a good reason.  I appreciate the suggestion a lot!
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Jessica84
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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2016, 03:21:37 PM »

AEJ - don't worry, we all crawl before we learn to walk! Be patient with yourself. I know how hard it can be to say or do the right things in the moment, especially when you've only recently discovered BPD. Learning to communicate effectively with a person with BPD can feel unnatural at first, awkward, ridiculous even.   

When I first started trying to validate my uBPDbf, I totally stumbled! None of what I read worked in practice... .I validated the wrong things, I guessed the wrong emotions to validate, I used the wrong choice of words, I projected my own thoughts/feelings onto him, or I instantly undid a validation with a "but"... .as in "I'm sorry you are upset, but... ." Oops! Took me awhile to get the hang of it. I had to understand him and the battle he was facing. I had to stop taking his words personally. Over time, it all became second nature and the relationship began to improve. The motto here is "Before you can make things better, you have to stop making things worse". Read all you can and practice the techniques you learn here. Be patient, stay positive, and practice... .and know that even if you stumble, there is still hope 
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an0ught
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2016, 11:10:46 AM »

When I first started trying to validate my uBPDbf, I totally stumbled! None of what I read worked in practice... .I validated the wrong things, I guessed the wrong emotions to validate, I used the wrong choice of words, I projected my own thoughts/feelings onto him, or I instantly undid a validation with a "but"... .as in "I'm sorry you are upset, but... ." Oops! Took me awhile to get the hang of i

this list is a real gem - it is so true for most of us  Being cool (click to insert in post).

There are many factors that contribute to our struggles

- in certain situations there are cultural patterns that tempt us to invalidate (cheer up)

- the relationship with the pwBPD - invalidation unfortunately rubs off

- a lot of members come from invalidating families and have relatively high tolerance (worn off mostly when arriving here) and weak awareness

At the beginning it can be a lot hit and miss for some couples. It is easy to get confused, discouraged and fall into a slot machine attitude. One invalidation may be visualized as erasing 5 validations. So progress may be barely visible initially. Sharing your struggles and eliciting feedback on what was going on in specific situations and handling it better can make all the difference.

It is really important to avoid invalidation. I believe this goal is achieved by focusing on validation. Avoiding invalidation is thinking negatives, may encourage fear and freezing and simply is not so constructive. 80-90% of avoiding invalidation can be achieved by avoiding JADE - Justification, Arguing, Defend and Explain. I like avoiding JADE as it is thinking about myself. I notice (well... .) when I get defensive and that is about me. Avoiding invalidation - outside of JADE - of the pwBPD I feel gets me too much into thinking how to avoid triggering them. At times it is important. But mostly I want to focus my attention on what the other person experiences and then simply being aware and straight share my awareness of this experience.

Avoiding invalidation is thinking in a defensive, fearful way. PwBPD are often highly sensitive and can pick up our emotions and then get defensive or even aggressive too. I think focusing my mind on wanting to understand allows me to radiate a supportive vibe and that can help to sooth by itself to a small degree.

Last but not least - some invalidation can not be avoided. And being human we invalidate more than needed but such is life. We work on getting the ratio right. We may get it wrong at times but let's keep also in mind that smaller fires can help to keep the overall stored energy in check and can be part of a regime to avoid a big explosion.
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Horus

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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2016, 05:10:53 PM »

This is my first time here and when I read your post I was really taken back on how much our situations are alike. I would appreciate it if u took a look at my post and give me your opinion also.

First off I'm just glad that you found out b4 you have gotten married and at least you have the option to deal with it or not. I or we didn't find out till after we got married and now I feel obligated to be there just cause of that fact. My wife is a RN and it completely baffels me that she can not manage her emotions but at the same time is working on her doctorate with no problem at all. We have been married now for going on 5 yrs now and been together for 9 yrs on and off. We just found out it was BPD 4 months ago.I was relieved when we found this out and was hopeful that we could now come to some type of resolution being that even b4 we got the diagnosis I was on point about the symptoms she displayed. Now that we know what the problem is and she acknowledges it we still haven't come any closer to any form of resolution. Now all I get is that I'm taking advantage of her condition when I bring up her irrational behavior or I'm pointing out her flaws , I'm hiding behind her condition, and many more excuses. I can never get her to acknowledge her BPD when she's going through it... .I say all this to you to say that I hope you have patiences because for me its not a matter of her getting better , its a matter of me continually helping her to manage her emotions and and the same time managing my own even when our needs are in conflict. I have now become the sanity manager and if you tend to go forward in your relationship just know its about management and not remedy. Good luck friend
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