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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: In a relationship with someone who has a child and BPD ex.  (Read 452 times)
cdizzle

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 17


« on: June 15, 2016, 05:07:48 PM »

Hello!

First time poster -- joining this site because I'm in a romantic relationship with someone who has a child with someone who has BPD and is making custody of their child a living hell (appears to be a theme with people with BPD *sigh*) -- she is the classic case of a "severe blamer."

Unfortunately my boyfriend was ill prepared for her shenanigans prior to their custody battle, so now he has a terrible custody arrangement set up (only supervised visits for 1.5 hours every Sunday, with the possibility of 4-6 hour long supervised visits after he completes a parenting class (which he completed PRIOR to the current custody arrangement, but the BPD got a very favorable evaluation by the custody evaluator (typical... .) so she essentially got everything she asked for, with my boyfriend getting nothing; so the only way she would agreed to extended visits is he completes the parenting class again. Worst part is he has to pay for the extended visit time ON TOP of the child support he's already paying). The fortunate thing is the case has not been taken to court yet, which means nothing is "set in stone" but based upon all my reading -- it seems like it's going to be even harder for him to gain any type of custody, since it will be an uphill battle at this point.

Not sure what to write aside from asking... .does it ever get better? Are there books/ articles/ etc that the significant other of the nonBPD (I think that's the term) can read for support and ideas on how to move forward with the custody battle? Are there other places to get support? What is the best way for me to provide support to my significant other? Seems like the role of the significant other of the nonBPD is an awkward one, as we're involved but indirectly -- but the choices that do get made end up affecting us directly.

I'm speaking with a therapist (and am clinically trained to be one) and am currently reading "Splitting" and have "Stop Walking on Eggshells" downloaded for reading as well.

Sadly though, a lot of the reading leaves a lot to be desired ... .and it makes me wonder if things can ever change or improve? Will my boyfriend ever be able to get any form of custody? Will this ever end? Or is a relationship with someone going through a custody dispute with a BPD doomed from the start?

Words of support or anecdotes are greatly appreciated, as I know a lot of people tend to feel alone... then realize that what's going on is all too common.  

Thanks in advance for the support on these boards, I suspect I will be utilizing them for years to come.

C
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ForeverDad
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Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2016, 10:27:12 PM »

Supervised visits... .was that in the custody evaluator's report or was that just her demands?  Typically a parent's behaviors and actions would have to be very significant — documented substantive abuse, neglect or endangerment — for supervision to be required.

If just mother's terms, then he needs to get an experienced, proactive attorney who will stand up for him as Father and get a temp order or a revised order if one already exists.  Sadly, agreeing to supervision isn't a good thing, it sets a bad precedent.  Unless she could prove a 'substantive' risk to the children then court will at least order a transitional schedule where he can have more and more unsupervised time.  Hopefully, he could go straight to the 'standard' alternate weekend schedule where he could get 2-3 overnights with the children and perhaps an overnight or evening in between.

Really, he could make a valid claim that she is obstructing his parenting and that her demanding supervision is being used to wrongly taint his ability to parent.

so she essentially got everything she asked for, with my boyfriend getting nothing; so the only way she would agreed to extended visits is he completes the parenting class again. Worst part is he has to pay for the extended visit time ON TOP of the child support he's already paying). The fortunate thing is the case has not been taken to court yet, which means nothing is "set in stone" but based upon all my reading -- it seems like it's going to be even harder for him to gain any type of custody, since it will be an uphill battle at this point.

Mediation and settlement conferences almost never work early in a divorce or custody process, the disordered Ex is just too entitled and too in control.  He would get much better treatment seeking an order from the court.  While it too likely wouldn't be 'fair', it almost surely would be 'less unfair' than what he has now.

Repeat, if there is no basis for supervision then that needs to be corrected ASAP.  What she's doing is building a case of "where there's smoke, there must be fire", that is, if he's being supervised then there must be a good reason for it.  That's what he needs to counter, the perception she's trying to create that something is wrong with him.

If possible, he should register as a member here.  Either way, whether you or him, the Family Law, Divorce and Custody board is where he can get even better assistance in his legal and court struggles.

BTW, My Ex demanded that I be supervised when we first separated.  Never happened.  And those first couple years had so many allegations that I lost count.  Literally!
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Naughty Nibbler
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Sibling
Posts: 1727



« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2016, 11:38:26 PM »

HEY CDIZZLE:

Welcome to BPD Family!

Sorry about your partner's situation.  I'm thinking your clinical training will come in handy.  What BPD behaviors does your partner's ex exhibit?

Quote from: CDIZZLE
I'm speaking with a therapist (and am clinically trained to be one) and am currently reading "Splitting" and have "Stop Walking on Eggshells" downloaded for reading as well.

I found the Eggshell book enlightening.  I even bought a workbook that goes along with it (Kindle version).  I find reading the various threads enlightening.  It is amazing how behavioral problems we find in common with others.

You are likely familiar with the material in the article below, but it could be helpful to review it.  At the end of the article, you will find two links to discussion threads about the two types of triangles discussed:

         Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle

         https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

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catclaw
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2016, 06:13:09 AM »

Hey cdizzle!

Another stepmom here Smiling (click to insert in post) As naughty nibbler already said, your professional Training is an AMAZING ressource! Not only for yourself and your resilience, but also regarding the Little one's Needs and supporting your Partner. I studied something like social care and work in mental health care and this helps me a lot. Not in all situations, we're just human beings and even a professional Training doesn't free you from Anger and Feeling desperate sometines, but knowing the mechanisms helps a lot. I really found the systemic Approach helpful when looking at certain situations. A pwBPD can really bring Trouble into familiar Systems and knowing my Position and my reactional Patterns (and learning how to Change tham appropriately) really helped me.

I can't say that it gets better. BPDm always Comes up with outrageous stuff for us to deal with, but I feel like my attitude has changed for the better. I guess that's all one can hope for. I learned to take better care of myself and appreciating my sanity more. It's hard work, but I found all of this to be both challenging and healing at times - healing in a way of learning to become more resilient, ressourceful and relaxed.

As for the custodial Situation, i'm a Little out of place (literally spoken) to give advice. My SS was put into foster care without DH's permission and was only granted supervised visitations at the foster family's home for almost 9 months. He was not allowed to see the CPS files, not even court granted him insight (because there were too many private informations about BPDm in SS' file). We still don't know why this was the case. It's a dead end.

I recommend to get to know the juridical System you're in to know your (and/or your partners' rights and don't ever sign anything without having at least 3 People (professionals in the field) read through. That's what experience has taught us.

Lots of love
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cdizzle

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 17


« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2016, 04:18:53 PM »

Thanks for the reply @ForeverDad! Apologies in advance as I'm still trying to figure out how to reply with the quote in the body!     Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Supervised visits are a great question and I'm not 100% sure. I know he did not have a very favorable evaluation as he was honest to a fault and admitted past marijuana use, which eventually got deemed as being "drug abuse." He also has an extensive driving record (numerous speeding tickets and a DUI) as well. Whether or not it was in the evaluation I'm not sure, but as a "severe blamer" his son's mom wasn't willing to work with him at all, so for him to get any time his attorney encouraged him to settle for what he has now. She also advised him to settle for what he has now because his BPDex "won't be able to bring any of this back up in court" (i.e., "drug abuse," etc) so she thinks he'll have a better chance when they go back to court again because the BPDex essentially played all her cards (although I highly doubt that).

I should also mention that she has filed a TRO against him twice -- she initially tried to file one for 18 years for her and their son (LOL), but only got it approved for just herself (not the son) and for one year. Once the year mark came up she filed AGAIN (claiming that he tried to friend her on facebook) -- she got that one approved for 9 months although she was seeking 3 years (my boyfriend opted to not fight that TRO and accepted it (he says due to finances), but denied all the claims -- at this same court hearing he was able to get OFW approved as a means of communication). I suspect when the 9 months mark rolls around she'll be filing something against him AGAIN.

I never thought about supervised visits in that way and you are absolutely right; it may be best for him to not even try to do the extended visitations (since that will cost at least $160/visit) and save up his money to take her back to court and/or mediation again. I also agree about finding a new attorney since I honestly feel like his current attorney hasn't done much for him at all... .she seems to believe that if he keeps doing what he's doing (paying child support, attending his visits, etc) he'll eventually get more custody, but I just don't see it... .plus it's taking forever and he's losing valuable time with his son.

How were you able to fight all those allegations and not have supervised visits? Right now it's feeling just like a losing battle... .my boyfriend claims he has evidence and continues to be building up evidence to demonstrate her patterns of behavior, but I find myself doubting him and the court system since he hasn't gotten anywhere so far. She even has a BPD diagnosis from a therapist (not sure if that came up in the custody), and yet my boyfriend only got approved for supervised visits. It's just feeling like a no-win situation, especially since he doesn't have the financial ability to fight... .while her family is supporting her throughout this entire thing. Sigh.
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cdizzle

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 17


« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2016, 04:30:27 PM »

Hey @Naughty Nibbler, thanks for the comment!

Yes -- the clinical training has definitely come in handy so far, although I never thought I would use it in this way, haha! She's pretty textbook: unstable personal relationships, uncontrollable anger, impulsive behaviors, etc etc. I've never met her in person (and hope that I never have to interact with her ever) but the BPD diagnoses definitely fits.

Great to know that Eggshells is a good read, have yet to read it but when I'm do I'm looking forward to learning more. I'll probably also purchase the workbook as well. I've also enjoyed reading these threads ... .it's helpful to know that there is support out there (the internet can be an amazing place)!

Thanks for sharing the Karpman's triangle re-reading the theory was helpful -- I'm finding myself creating a triangle between the three of us (with myself in the "victim" role of course), but the only way our relationship will survive is if I learn to let-go of that in which I cannot control, and recognize I have the strength to deal with what does happen.

Thanks again. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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cdizzle

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 17


« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2016, 04:56:46 PM »

Hey @catclaw! Thanks for the comment!

Yes! The professional training has helped (my boyfriend has even said it was fate that I went through my program, so that I would be prepared for a relationship with him, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)!) and I am a 100% systems thinker... .so it has definitely helped. It has even allowed for me to feel empathy for his BPDex (albeit that lasts like one second, then I go back to despising her Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)... .eventually I'm hoping to get to the point where I just feel indifferent towards her).

Thank you! I have already seen how much I've grown from this experience in our time together, I can only imagine how much more I will continue to grow. It's also incredibly easy to focus on the negative outcomes (financial difficulties, inability to see children, etc) but there are definite positives that come from these experiences as well. I myself have learned that I am a lot more stronger and resilient then I realized, and my boyfriend and I's relationship is exponentially stronger as we're forced to have some uncomfortable conversations, yet our communication remains open and transparent. I still struggle with my own ish, but I have hopes that I will get there.

I am sorry to hear about your custody arrangement! I don't understand why they would put the child in foster care rather than to with you guys? Argh, the courts can be so frustrating at times... .I've always been frustrated with "the system" and seeing my bf go through everything he has only reaffirms how messed up the system truly is.

Thanks for the advice -- I'm reading up more (Splitting has been a god send) and I'm reaching out to resources (to hopefully find my bf a new attorney, etc), this message board has also been super awesome so far.

Thanks again Smiling (click to insert in post)


Hey cdizzle!

Another stepmom here Smiling (click to insert in post) As naughty nibbler already said, your professional Training is an AMAZING ressource! Not only for yourself and your resilience, but also regarding the Little one's Needs and supporting your Partner. I studied something like social care and work in mental health care and this helps me a lot. Not in all situations, we're just human beings and even a professional Training doesn't free you from Anger and Feeling desperate sometines, but knowing the mechanisms helps a lot. I really found the systemic Approach helpful when looking at certain situations. A pwBPD can really bring Trouble into familiar Systems and knowing my Position and my reactional Patterns (and learning how to Change tham appropriately) really helped me.

I can't say that it gets better. BPDm always Comes up with outrageous stuff for us to deal with, but I feel like my attitude has changed for the better. I guess that's all one can hope for. I learned to take better care of myself and appreciating my sanity more. It's hard work, but I found all of this to be both challenging and healing at times - healing in a way of learning to become more resilient, ressourceful and relaxed.

As for the custodial Situation, i'm a Little out of place (literally spoken) to give advice. My SS was put into foster care without DH's permission and was only granted supervised visitations at the foster family's home for almost 9 months. He was not allowed to see the CPS files, not even court granted him insight (because there were too many private informations about BPDm in SS' file). We still don't know why this was the case. It's a dead end.

I recommend to get to know the juridical System you're in to know your (and/or your partners' rights and don't ever sign anything without having at least 3 People (professionals in the field) read through. That's what experience has taught us.

Lots of love

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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2016, 02:06:39 PM »

Hi cdizzle,

How old is your DBF's child?

It sounds like he is really deep in a hole right now. BPDx probably used those TROs to paint DBF as abusive. The past drug use may or may not have been a big issue depending on how far in the past it occurred... .my DH admitted to drug use in the past as well, but tested negative when the CE asked for a drug test. Did DBF take a drug test? The DUI, however, could be concerning. Is DBF doing anything to address these behaviors? (AA, etc?). The courts do understand that we are all human and make mistakes, and if they see us actively trying to better ourselves to keep us from making those mistakes over again then they really like that.

It sounds like your DBF's attorney is very passive. Does the L have much experience with high conflict cases? Personality disorders? My DH started with a passive attorney who told him he would be "lucky" to get 30% visitation. We switched to a new one and got 50/50 at the temp (and are currently going for primary). My DH had the same things going against him that your DBF did... .3 TROs (we fought them, none granted), false claims of drug use (CPS was called, we passed the drug tests).

It's good that he is tracking BPDmom's behavior, but remember... .it needs to be the negative behavior that affects the child. She can be a crazy loon all day long but if she's a loving, caring, nurturing mother then the court won't see much of an issue.
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"Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength."

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NorthernGirl
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2016, 04:06:53 PM »

Hi and welcome cdizzle! 

When it comes time for dealing with the courts, head over to the Legal thread as there are members who can give you more ideas. They won't give legal opinions but have experience in these types of legal matters.

My DH (dear husband) and his uBPD (undiagnosed BPD) ex just finished a year long battle for guardianship of SS21, who has special needs. Guardianshipy is not the same as custody, but similar. The results were good as DH is now sole guardian of SS21 but it was a long, expensive and stressful process. DH described being on the stand for 5 hours similar to what a root canal without drugs might be like. It was even excruciating to watch.

A good lawyer is key. When DH's lawyer could see that I understood and could even sometimes predict some of uBPD's reactions, the lawyer started asking lots of questions about uBPD which helped shape the legal strategy. In UBPD's case, many times she dug the biggest holes herself.

DH is a great Dad but he is human so hearing his flaws in court was not fun. I wonder if your BF's concerns are both financial and the struggle to have to talk about his DUI, etc.? As painful as it was for DH, most of his ex's issues with him were pretty minor, and in the end most actually made her look bad (claiming SS's injuries in sports were due to DH, rather than just seeing kids get hurt playing sports). Your BF may have a tougher time if his ex has bigger real or imagined issues to raise. He should definitely fight, but he needs a good lawyer and a good strategy.

One of the biggest things that helped DH was only communicating with his ex on email, and keeping every email she ever sent. It helped provide piles of email evidence for court.

Keep posting here or on the legal thread (if you can't find it let us know and we'll provide a link). Once you get the posting figured out (eg. use the Quote button by the person's post you want to include in your reply) you'll get the hang of using the site. The people here are great - you'll get honest answers and suggestions, and a listening ear when you need it.

Welcome again.

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ForeverDad
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Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2016, 06:30:37 PM »

One of the advantages of the Family Law board which NorthernGirl mentioned is that only members who are logged in can view the posts there.  That way when strategies and risks are discussed, the Ex is less likely to be lurking.  We have to be very careful about what information we divulge to the Ex, otherwise it might be easier to sabotage us.  Too many of us have nosy ex-spouses.

I agree that your BF had an inexperienced or inept attorney, probably also a lousy, easily conned Custody Evaluator.  Most lawyer will try to make deals and settlements rather than go to trial.  That's understandable, the entire court process is structured to make settling much easier than going to trial.  And surprisingly, many of our high conflict cases do settle, though not early in the process, they're too entitled or unreasonable at the beginning.

A forms-filing, hand-holding attorney is not what BF needs.  He needs a proactive, experienced attorney.  That doesn't necessarily mean expensive, but it can.  But at least with that better attorney he would get real results and a much better return on his money.  Regarding proactive attorneys and other needed bulldog qualities, read Bill Eddy & Randi Kreger's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  Divorcing, separating or whatever applies.  It's one of our best handbooks here.  It's inexpensive and worth every penny.  There's a thread about it and other books on our Book review and Article Review boards.
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