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Author Topic: Is there such a thing as a truthful BPD ?  (Read 512 times)
william3693
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« on: June 18, 2016, 04:30:06 PM »

I know all BPD's are unique but they do seem to have some things in common.I am not sure the person I have a rs with lies but I think she does at times and

most of the time when she does I think I can tell. When she denies it I sometimes question my own feelings and thoughts but I think they are true.

I am not this way in general and have not been in other relationships.It usually in regard as to whether she is involved in an other relationship.

This usually will come up in the form of a question when she appears to be distancing from me and leave for a couple of days to a week for rather "vague" reasons

She does not rage too often but if I bring up something in regard to whether she is in some way involved with someone else she will always rage

and say she is not but it is none of my business if she were in spite of the fact we have agreed to have a monogmous relationship at her instance.

This does not come up to often.But has been coming up quite a bit in the last month(trips are becoming more frequent)

My questions are is it rare for them to go 2 or 3 years without a relationship( which she claims she did after our first break up) and is it rare for them to be truthful.

I know there is not " an answer "to this but I would appreciate some feedback or opinions  
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FallBack!Monster
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2016, 04:53:19 PM »

If you take a look at what others have posted, you will notice that most are complaining about their BPD lies.  Also, about the hyper sexuality and cheating.  It is tough to think that the person we've fallen for is cheating but the more frequent trips and the avoidance of topics was a tell tale sign for me.  This is how I ending up in this forum.  good luck!
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2016, 10:19:52 AM »

Cheating is one thing, lying is another. My husband has always had little lies here and there. Some of them very big when we first met (about his past). But I looked past the lies because I understood why he lied. One of them was about how his father died, not something you want to tell everyone you meet. Anyways, fast forward to now 11 years later and I have noticed he still lies about certain things. He doesn't lie to me although if he makes a promise don't bet on him keeping it. He will lie to complete strangers for some reason. People he knows he will never see again he will strait up tell complete lies for no reason, I will never understand it but as long as he doesn't lie to me I am not going to worry about it. I do know he has never cheated on me, I really do know he has been faithful to me for our entire 11 years. I don't think all of them are cheaters, I would never stay with a cheater, I know that much.
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2016, 01:41:40 PM »

pwBPD have low self esteem. When you have low self esteem, people will pretty much do anything.

Impulsive actions helps mitigate this in the now.

How best to improve a relationship with a pwBPD; improve their self-esteem.

Improving one's self-esteem is not 'cherry-coating' everything, rather it is showing the value of actions.

It is more about the foundation than the view.

And it is very hard to show someone their worth when they feel they are worthless.

From the pwBPD perspective, I can see how your questioning might display a lack of worth.

That the pwBPD worth is tied to their previous relationships. I would be hesitant to tell you the truth if I felt that is how you valued me.

Just something to think about. They are in a constant flux of, 'are they good enough'.
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Michael1924
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2016, 02:02:27 PM »

I have the same thing, the vanishing, disappearing for 2-3 days, long weekends, total radio silence with no, or vague reasons, or inconsistent stories that sometimes contradict. With just enough to truth or feel that they could be plausible but probably not... .Esp when she feels abandoned. It's like she's punishing me with this or cheating to resolve her abandonment fears. But then reappears, like nothing happened or proclaiming that she's bad and can't meet my needs and not perfect. And that she hates herself for this. Then she turns it on again for me and shifts the responsibility for her actions (whatever went on, as we never get to the truth or bottom of it) to me. It's my fault. Etc. it's an incredible head f*%k. I recently watched Pamela Meyers TED Talk on YouTube -- lie spotting and deception... .It was incredibly helpful as was her book 'LieSpotting'. Check it out. Perhaps some help for you.
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waverider
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2016, 06:45:09 PM »

pwBPD are not anchored in the world of hard facts and realities. Communication is a way of expressing needs and feelings. Language is like an elastic medium to be pulled and stretched in whatever way best expresses or meets those needs. So there can be a mixture of truths, twisted truths and outright fabrications. With little conscious hesitation as the cross smoothly between the lines.

How truthful they are is largely affected by their environment and whether they find the truth comfortable or adequate to express their needs.

The other factor is the high level of impulsive motivation which makes then act first and cover up later. How much they cover up is largely dependent on their past experience has taught them that what they did would be disapproved of. That is driven by perceived shame level. This is often entrenched from parental disapproval at an early age.

The most common dishonesty is the recollection of accurate quotes and images but which have been cut and pasted around a new context which best fits their current line of thinking. Do they really believe this or is it manipulative? Hard to say, probably a bit of both. Either way its so close to realism it is very believable, and can have you questioning your  own reality and you give the benefit of the doubt.

Will pwBPD cheat? That depends on whether they feel the need. If they do they will have the view that it is their business and not yours. They will genuinely feel it an intrusion that you interfere with their ability to do so. As a result will have no qualms lying about it without feeling guilt.

If they dont feel the need they will be loyal and will not be able to imagine having the need, or temptation, to do so. It is as black and white as that.

Neither stance is set in concrete
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lbjnltx
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2016, 06:44:12 PM »

I would say that their perception is their reality and if their perceptions are distorted so will be their reality.  My daughter doesn't lie to me that I am aware of.  There have been times that she "lied by omission" though if I ask her a direct question that she doesn't want to answer because she knows I won't like the answer she will sheepishly say "mmm Maybe".  Which = no.  As in "did you make that appointment?" ":)id you remember to save enough $ for your _____?"

She is also fiercely loyal to her friends and boyfriends.  She has had 3 serious boyfriends and hasn't cheated and has not ever been accused of cheating.  She stays with them beyond what she should (and she knows it).  Until they bust a boundary of extreme importance she won't end it.  The last one left on his own (for the second time) and she told him if he ever left on a whim again not to come back... .he isn't welcome back now or ever.

lbj
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an0ught
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« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2016, 06:26:19 PM »

There are a whole host of reasons why pwBPD tend to lie - distorted perception, rejection sensitivity, weak ego, twisted thinking etc. . PwBPD are experts in getting short term results and turning the world against them in the long run. That is the whole crux of the condition.

I usually don't waste too much time on trying to sway my wife. What works are consequences. What works is positioning the pieces on the board that her suffered consequences do the explaining (while making also sure the consequences are not too painful for me). What works is gently linking past actions to consequences suffered. What works in discussion pointing out potential consequences and let anxiety do the rest.

I sometimes think not lying is a choice or maybe better a boundary for me. PwBPD often have weak boundary skills themselves. Helping to develop boundaries I think goes a long way as it

- boundaries protect from stress and thus keeping reason in charge

- boundaries and values strengthen sense of self

- boundaries decrease rejection sensitivity

And then is the point that pwBPD can be too truthful - framing their message in b&w and blissfully ignorant of what the person they communicate with feels.
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MapleBob
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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2016, 10:10:50 AM »

I agree with the other responses in this thread, but I wanted to add that they definitely think they're telling the truth, which is part of what makes communication with them on difficult subjects pretty confusing and, eventually, infuriating.

I have a friend who has some personal experience in the mental health field who claims that BPD is, deep down, an inability to say "AND". For example, they can't seem to grasp the concept of "you made me angry/scared/sad *AND* I still love you", or "you're insufficient as a partner in XYZ ways, *AND* you're an amazing partner in ABC ways". So they bounce back and forth between those truths trying to decide which one is real when, in fact, they're both real. This is where the truth-stretching comes in (to try to reconcile the *AND*), and the problems with distorted perception and "testing" (to gather evidence that sways their thinking towards or away from those oppositional thoughts/feelings that mentally-healthy people are better-equipped to balance).
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lbjnltx
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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2016, 10:20:47 AM »

Agree MapleBob... .it is the dialectical dilemma.

Amy Tibbets gives a good audio presentation on the subject. 

https://bpdfamily.org/2011/04/untangling-internal-struggles-of.html
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BestVersionOfMe
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« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2016, 10:25:00 AM »

I agree with the other responses in this thread, but I wanted to add that they definitely think they're telling the truth, which is part of what makes communication with them on difficult subjects pretty confusing and, eventually, infuriating.

I have a friend who has some personal experience in the mental health field who claims that BPD is, deep down, an inability to say "AND". For example, they can't seem to grasp the concept of "you made me angry/scared/sad *AND* I still love you", or "you're insufficient as a partner in XYZ ways, *AND* you're an amazing partner in ABC ways". So they bounce back and forth between those truths trying to decide which one is real when, in fact, they're both real. This is where the truth-stretching comes in (to try to reconcile the *AND*), and the problems with distorted perception and "testing" (to gather evidence that sways their thinking towards or away from those oppositional thoughts/feelings that mentally-healthy people are better-equipped to balance).

Yep feelings = reality.  If in an interaction someone with BPD doesn't feel "heard" then in their minds they literally are "never" listened to.  My wife just went out the door telling me that I "never" help her with the kids.  Is that the truth?  It is ridiculous.  I help more with the kids because I have the job where I can do that more than anyone I know.  Everybody knows what a hands on Dad I am but not her.  Her reality, at this moment, is that I "never" help her with the kids and no one will convince her otherwise.  The all or nothing thinking, feelings equaling reality, splitting, and other BPD tendencies lead to a whole lot of intellectual dishonesty and compartmentalizing.  
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waverider
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« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2016, 05:45:57 PM »

 Her reality, at this moment, is that I "never" help her with the kids and no one will convince her otherwise.  

At that moment you are not meeting her  "need'. Which is stopping her having to be inconvenienced by the kids.The kids are getting in the way of her "need" to do something else. The needs will always dominate everything. Taken to extremes at times not meeting her needs can be translated into abusing her... yes it can get that extreme.

The defense for perceived "abuse" is to abuse back, under the guise of standing up for herself.
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adaw
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2016, 04:49:24 PM »

Instead of sharing all my experiences with lies of the past 24 hours let me sum it up. NO
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