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Author Topic: Does idealization depend on how quickly the pwBPD secures an attachment?  (Read 436 times)
SummerStorm
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« on: June 20, 2016, 10:24:32 AM »

Does idealization depend on how quickly the pwBPD secures an attachment and/or gets what he or she wants?  

My BPD friend started dating this guy, "C," in mid-March.  To me, it never really seemed like she idealized him, not like she has with others and like she did with me when we first met.  In fact, it seemed like she was pulling away from him right from the start.  I would imagine that he thought things were moving too quickly, as she introduced him to her dad within two weeks of meeting him.  There was some push/pull for a while, and then she went back to the guy before him and spent two weeks documenting everything they did (mostly playing video games).  She broke it off with him and went back to "C."  And now, she is in full idealization mode with him.  She has completely stopped replying to my messages, for no reason (the last thing we talked about was her playing golf a few weeks ago) but hasn't blocked me or anything, so I'm not painted black.  This is the first time she's done that since last year, so she's clearly very much attached to this guy.  Every Facebook post is something about him or a meme that describes their love and how they're meant to be.  She's practically living at his place and asking his roommate if "they" can get a pet.  That stuff is normal for her, but it's usually within a week or two, not three months.  Normally, with her, idealization pretty much starts right away.  I saw it with me, her boyfriend from last year, and other friends.  It was almost instantaneous.

So, is it possible for idealization to start later, for some reason?  Could it be that he finally gave her something that she wanted?  Like I said, it seemed like he was really into taking things slow (didn't post pictures of them together, didn't comment on the pictures she posted), and now, it seems like he's in it for the long haul.  

I know I shouldn't expect her to act the same way every single time.  I mean, she's a human being.  But this is sort of fascinating to me because this relationship hasn't followed the same pattern as any of her other relationships.  
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2016, 11:00:52 AM »

HEY SummerStorm:

Perhaps your friend is behaving in a more mature way this time? Many times relationships that start out more slowly, tend to last longer.

Quote from: Otto Kernberg
Otto Kernberg has provided an extensive discussion of idealization, both in its defensive and adaptive aspects. He conceptualized idealization as involving a denial of unwanted characteristics of an object, then enhancing the object by projecting one's own libido or omnipotence on it. He proposed a developmental line with one end of the continuum being a normal form of idealization and the other end a pathological form. In the latter, the individual has a problem with object constancy and sees others as all good or all bad, thus bolstering idealization and devaluation. At this stage idealization is associated with borderline pathology. At the other end of the continuum, idealization is said to be a necessary precursor for feelings of mature love.
Quote from: Otto Kernberg
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SummerStorm
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2016, 11:22:25 AM »

HEY SummerStorm:

Perhaps your friend is behaving in a more mature way this time? Many times relationships that start out more slowly, tend to last longer.

Excerpt
Otto Kernberg has provided an extensive discussion of idealization, both in its defensive and adaptive aspects. He conceptualized idealization as involving a denial of unwanted characteristics of an object, then enhancing the object by projecting one's own libido or omnipotence on it. He proposed a developmental line with one end of the continuum being a normal form of idealization and the other end a pathological form. In the latter, the individual has a problem with object constancy and sees others as all good or all bad, thus bolstering idealization and devaluation. At this stage idealization is associated with borderline pathology. At the other end of the continuum, idealization is said to be a necessary precursor for feelings of mature love.


No, I don't think so.  Again, she met him in mid-March, and by the end of March was posting passive-aggressive things about him.  Then, she broke things off with him and went out drinking and getting high with friends.  A week or so later, they were together again.  A week after that, she went away for a few days to attend her grandmother's funeral and spent most of the time sending me pictures of her on the beach, with her boobs basically hanging out (we had a very brief sexual relationship, but that was a long time ago).  She also stole the rental car from her mom and stayed out late, doing who knows what, and then came back and had a huge fight with her mom.  She came back from that trip and broke up with him.  Within two days, she was back to sleeping over at the previous guy's place.  She dumped him, and within a few days, she was back with the current guy again.  To make matters worse, she then finally updated her relationship status and put that they've been together since March 12th, even though she was with another guy in between there.

And now, she refuses to reply to me, even though my texts are nice.  We have been on very cordial terms since Christmas.  She has been through at least four guys since then, and she has never not replied to me.  A month ago, she was talking about taking me out somewhere to celebrate my master's degree, and now, she can't even take two seconds to reply to me.  I don't know.  To me, none of this seems very mature.  

The real kicker is that she will need a place to live soon because her lease is up in early September.  So, part of me thinks that a lot of this has to do with that.  I saw this happen with a mutual friend, with me, and with her ex.  

So, while I definitely agree that relationships that start more slowly tend to last longer, nothing about this relationship has been mature so far.  It's been bumpy right from the beginning.  
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2016, 11:43:25 AM »

Does idealization depend on how quickly the pwBPD secures an attachment and/or gets what he or she wants? 

That is an interesting question. I am thinking about this in terms of my ex. From the sidelines, it looks like he will idealize anybody that gives him the time of day without questioning him or challenging him. He has this habit of telling me about his escapades. Even when I take measures to avoid it, he will find a way of slipping up and letting me know that he has somebody else that he is chasing/interested in at any given time. He will talk about these people as though they are the best thing since sliced bread. He is in love. They are great, blah, blah, blah. I spoke with one of his love interests. She said he made her uncomfortable with his professions of love and how she made his life better, blah, blah, blah. It is like he gets attached immediately and then gets upset when it doesn't work out. It seems like every relationship is going to be the ONE. When it isn't, he goes on to the next one.

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SummerStorm
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2016, 04:20:44 PM »

Does idealization depend on how quickly the pwBPD secures an attachment and/or gets what he or she wants? 

That is an interesting question. I am thinking about this in terms of my ex. From the sidelines, it looks like he will idealize anybody that gives him the time of day without questioning him or challenging him. He has this habit of telling me about his escapades. Even when I take measures to avoid it, he will find a way of slipping up and letting me know that he has somebody else that he is chasing/interested in at any given time. He will talk about these people as though they are the best thing since sliced bread. He is in love. They are great, blah, blah, blah. I spoke with one of his love interests. She said he made her uncomfortable with his professions of love and how she made his life better, blah, blah, blah. It is like he gets attached immediately and then gets upset when it doesn't work out. It seems like every relationship is going to be the ONE. When it isn't, he goes on to the next one.

Yes, mine idealizes just about anyone, but this has reached another level.  We remain friends on Facebook and Snapchat.  She views my Snapchat story every day, often viewing it as it is updated throughout the day.  So, I'm not painted black, really.  I'm just nonexistent.  I've been painted black before, and I was blocked on everything. There have been shades of this before since we started talking again back in December, but never to the point where she just flat out ignored me for weeks.  I sent her a picture of my diploma from grad school (she mentioned many times how proud she was of me for getting my master's degree) and got no reply.  She spends every second of her free time with him and is meeting his parents today.  The only important thing in her life right now is him.  The only time she ever really even texts her mom is when she has something to tell her about him.  Her mom was just on vacation, and she never once asked her if she was having a good time. 

Of course, for a while, I was "the one" last year.  Then, it was her ex-boyfriend.  Years ago, it was a guy she was with in high school.  They were "so in love" that she refused to go to a college in another state because she couldn't stand to be away from him.  Then, she ended up cheating on him.  Then, her first semester of college, her dad let her next boyfriend move in with them, and when he left her a month later, she tried to commit suicide and came VERY close to dying because she just felt like she couldn't live without him.  At the beginning of March, when that guy left her, she was still posting on his timeline about how he was the only person in the whole world that she wanted to be with.  When he didn't reply, she unfriended him and started dating the current guy about five days later. 
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2016, 05:52:49 PM »

SummerStorm,

there is a pattern here: that pattern is putting a lot of focus into analyzing and keeping up with her patterns; her relationships, her friendships, even individual facebook posts, comments, pictures. little to no focus on how this effects you (beyond that she messages you less) or how you can effect a change or detach.

whats the payoff for this fascination? 

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SummerStorm
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2016, 12:43:03 PM »

SummerStorm,

there is a pattern here: that pattern is putting a lot of focus into analyzing and keeping up with her patterns; her relationships, her friendships, even individual facebook posts, comments, pictures. little to no focus on how this effects you (beyond that she messages you less) or how you can effect a change or detach.

whats the payoff for this fascination?  


I don't know, but your "effects" should be "affects."  Just an FYI.

I'm sorry, but I honestly can't discuss this with someone who uses improper grammar.  

Also, I'm incredibly annoyed that this got moved to detaching because I'm actually working (and have been working) on maintaining a friendship with her.

This is precisely why I keep asking for a friendship forum.

I'm honestly done with this place.  It changed for the worse since I first joined a year ago.
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2016, 12:50:20 PM »

SummerStorm,

there is a pattern here: that pattern is putting a lot of focus into analyzing and keeping up with her patterns; her relationships, her friendships, even individual facebook posts, comments, pictures. little to no focus on how this effects you (beyond that she messages you less) or how you can effect a change or detach.

whats the payoff for this fascination? 


I don't know, but your "effects" should be "affects."  Just an FYI.

I'm sorry, but I honestly can't discuss this with someone who uses improper grammar. 

Not everyone on this site has English as their first language I assume.
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2016, 11:48:34 PM »

Staff only

This thread has been locked due to divisive exchange.

2.4 Divisive Exchanges: All members should feel safe in their expressions; we are all here to heal from abuse. Please keep in mind that the membership is comprised of diverse experiences and backgrounds; this is a great strength of our community. Forum is healthy when conducted in a respectful, and tolerant manner. Under no circumstances shall members be permitted to engage in divisive or abusive exchanges or be judgmental of other members.



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