Loosing faith

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I thought I was doing better. Thought I was finding my self again. And here I am after three months of no contact missing him and how he made me feel like crazy, but at the same time seriously hurting about everything. I can't accept all that has happened. I can't get over how much this man has hurt me. I hate thinking that he may be happy with someone else and that I will never find someone to truly love me. All these thoughts are unbearable and I can feel the despair again... .It's bad

[Penelope35]

I thought I was doing better. Thought I was finding my self again. And here I am after three months of no contact missing him and how he made me feel like crazy, but at the same time seriously hurting about everything. I can't accept all that has happened. I can't get over how much this man has hurt me. I hate thinking that he may be happy with someone else and that I will never find someone to truly love me. All these thoughts are unbearable and I can feel the despair again... .It's bad

[HoneyB33]

Hey Penelope

I do know how that feels. And those thoughts! I know them well.

3 months of NC isn't THAT far into the game. I know that you want to feel better now, but I think you esp want to feel better now because you want to prove something to yourself. And you want to be ok because this person is "ok". You want to beat all of this. But please realize that how you feel is because you have been very wronged. You're not going to just up and be fine. Because you are not this person. And you shouldn't want to be. (I'm assuming this person is "just moved on" like most BPD ppl).

It feels so unfair, and I think we push ourselves to be "ok" because the injustice of being in so much pain and them seeming "fine" is just unbearable. It is beyond wrong. But please realize that this person is disordered. They have and will pay for this. They pay for it every day with their disorder, there is no escaping that for them, unless they walk back through everything.

I am really sorry this has happened to you. But it will get better. Grieve, rage, punch $hit. Feel. And do whatever you can to get this focus back always onto how you feel and what you think about things, rather than what he might think. It's so hard, but wrestle that bull.

[Penelope35]

I don't know if he has moved on but I know he is married (which I found out after our last break up in December) and his ex was also always in the picture. It looks like he is still thinking of me as he sent me a message three weeks ago, to which I didn't reply. But now I want to contact him. I feel like I have wrestled the bull for so long but I lost.

[steelwork]

I'm sorry, Penelope. Up and down, up and down -- that's how it's been for me for a year and a half. He's still with the new girl, who's no longer new, and I don't know about him but I keep hearing news of all her triumphs (we are in the same creative field), which also does not help, to say the least. Makes me feel like: 1. she "won," 2. he picked a winner.

But now I'm just talking about me.

About you: what are you losing faith in? That you will get over him? That you will find love again? Do those your fears seem REAL-real or just emotional-real?

[Penelope35]

Hi Steelwork. I am sorry you get to find out things about him and her. This definitely sucks. I am loosing faith that I will ever get over him and that I will find love again. Maybe the first fear is an emotional one but the second mind not be. Not everybody finds love and this scares me. I wasn't looking for love for so long, not because I didn't want to but probably because I had put that need to sleep. And then I found it with him, I was happy only to be left heartbroken 

[steelwork]

Not everybody finds love and this scares me. I wasn't looking for love for so long, not because I didn't want to but probably because I had put that need to sleep. And then I found it with him, I was happy only to be left heartbroken 

I've had those thoughts, too. I know for myself I'm having to do some reevaluation of my feelings for my ex. Was the love you found with him healthy? Was the intensity of it partly because of your reawakened need?

[fromheeltoheal]

I thought I was doing better. Thought I was finding my self again. And here I am after three months of no contact missing him and how he made me feel like crazy, but at the same time seriously hurting about everything. I can't accept all that has happened. I can't get over how much this man has hurt me.

Hey Penelope-

I'm sorry you're in that place, but only a little sorry because I was too, and it is awesome on the other side, which you will get to, the only way out is through.  I don't know how long your relationship was, but just for reference, mine was about a year and it took the better part of a year to untangle, and it's not linear; two steps forward and one step back is still one step forward, and it's best to celebrate the progress, whatever progress there is.

I hate thinking that he may be happy with someone else and that I will never find someone to truly love me. All these thoughts are unbearable and I can feel the despair again... .It's bad

The best way to be truly loved is to truly love.  We've all heard the 'you can't love someone else until you love yourself' crap, overused so much to be meaningless really, and it might even piss you off because it doesn't come with instructions; how exactly do you do that?  Doesn't matter.  What matters is to shift the focus from him to you and from the past to the future, make those a priority and a project, the best of projects, and develop a vision for your bright future, the life of your dreams.  What would that look like?  And it sounds like he wouldn't be in it, with the way he treated you, but what and who will be?  And then make that vision big and bright, so it's compelling and will pull you towards it, then take on step in that direction.  Then another.  You'll be going on faith initially, but do it anyway, and after a while you'll notice progress, which builds momentum, and you'll get so caught up in that progress, the journey, the pursuit of the life of your dreams, that your ex will just fade into the past, not an area of focus for you at all, and before you know it you'll look back and see how far you've come, and then you will be free.  Plus, someone ecstatic about their life and in pursuit of their dreams is mighty attractive, and who shows up in that life you create is a wonderful mystery.  Not only what, we're wiser now, so if folks who are wrong for us show up, we'll know if right away and send them packing.  And the folks with those pesky personality disorders won't find us attractive, we're too ecstatic, not needy enough, not susceptible enough, so they'll move on to easier pickings.

So what does your bright future look like?

[JQ]

Hello Penelope,

I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this tough patch in time but know that it will pass like others have and you'll be in a better place. Take a deep breath and let it out slowly ... .it's going to get better.

Instead of thinking, wondering, questioning things about him ... .you need to concentrate on YOU.  Go for that walk, call an old friend & catch up, go to a movie, improve your position right now. It only takes a small forward step and you're on your way. Remember baby steps, the group here has your back and we are here for you.

I know at times it seems like it's never going to end, the hurt, the pain, the constant thoughts of what if, but let them pass, let them fly by as if they were bubbles on a current of wind. let them be carried away.

Things are going to get better Penelope  

[atomic popsicles]

Oh, Penelope, I am sorry. I understand. Fromheeltoheal has some great advice... .I'm going to reread it and reread it and reread it.

[fromheeltoheal]

Oh, Penelope, I am sorry. I understand. Fromheeltoheal has some great advice... .I'm going to reread it and reread it and reread it.

And while reading it is the first step, a vital one, nothing will change unless we take action.

So AP, what does your bright future look like?  What can you do today towards creating it?

[VitaminC]

... .it's not linear; two steps forward and one step back is still one step forward, and it's best to celebrate the progress, whatever progress there is.

Yes, this is right. If you track your feelings and activities, maybe daily, you might see how you go up and down but are, generally speaking, moving in the right direction - away, forward.

Also, it sounds as if it's a message from him that threw you for a loop. Have you considered simply blocking him? You don't need to consider his feelings! You do, however, very much need to consider your own.

While you're healing, give the wound a chance to close up a little before you go poking around in there, or letting someone else (especially him) give it a little jab right into its sensitive core. Sorry for the forensics.

What other people are saying is bang on. Take care of yourself now. Chances are, even if you knew how to before that relationship, you've gotten out of the habit or even forgotten completely. It's important to remember and put all the little things into practise.

It gets easier and more natural to do that. And it gets easier and more natural to not miss the good without also seeing all the bad that was there. It's ok to miss the good, how good the good made you feel. Give yourself a break if you feel sad or down, but learn to temper it with reality and a little bit of bootstrapping yourself into doing good things for yourself.

[atomic popsicles]

I don't know... .I guess taking back the house is almost a start.

[rfriesen]

You'll be going on faith initially, but do it anyway, and after a while you'll notice progress, which builds momentum, ... .

I would just like to second this, Penelope, as it rings so true to my experience. I cut the quote off where I did, because I feel I'm only at that stage now, just starting to break through the worst of the heartache and to build some momentum. The hardest thing for me was to go on faith, just accepting that the only way forward was to keep detaching from my ex, not to go back to her, and to focus on my feelings and all the longing that I had to return, and to keep reminding myself that it doesn't lead me to a happy or healthy place. I say this is acting "on faith" because that longing I had for my ex was overpowering - that horrible feeling that I'll never have such intense pleasure and happiness again as those peaks with my ex. Walking away from that felt all wrong, but as fromheeltoheal says, it's about taking the first steps on faith, once you've somehow accepted that you're healthier away from the relationship.

And even though I feel I'm still only starting to detach, those first few steps have taught me a lot. I think what many of us have experienced with our exes is peaks of such intense pleasure that we thought we had found our home in the world. But now I use "pleasure" deliberately, and not "happiness" -- because, speaking for myself at least, these were momentary highs, not stable love and happiness. What I had with my ex was powerful and meaningful for me, but it wasn't love in the sense of a trusting, open relationship you can build a life partnership out of. At most the first few months showed some possibility of continuous happiness, but even then - in hindsight - it was unnaturally intense and couldn't have gone on like that.

I became hooked on the intense highs I had with my ex, and I shared her view of that as love ... .now I have no doubt that she's chasing the same highs with someone else, and maybe even finding them. Does that hurt? Yes, absolutely, and it cuts deep. But I keep reminding myself that that's not actually what I'm looking for, in building a life with someone. It's too chaotic, too variable, too painful, and for my ex to be able to just move from partner to partner looking for that ... .it's just not love in a way that I recognise anymore. Or I'm torn between that conception of love and the more open, stable, trusting form that I'm moving towards.

I'm sorry for rambling on about my own feelings. It's just that I know your pain and self-doubt. So many of us here do. And fromheeltoheal's advice resonates very deeply with me. You might feel despair. You might feel like you're making no progress. You might feel like you'll never get out of this hole. Let yourself feel whatever comes to you. Don't hold back. Observe your feelings. And then slowly start exploring what you envision as healthier feelings. What you would like to be doing with your days if you felt energetic and focused on yourself. What do you want to fill your life with? And if it's hard to picture because you're still so focused on your ex, try new things even if they don't excite you at first. If you're good to yourself and accept whatever feelings comes, while taking small steps to move on, you WILL feel better in time. It's hard to be patient, but it will come. And you will learn so much from having picked yourself up from such a low place.

Above all, be compassionate and loving with yourself now. The fact that you're hurting so much, that isn't a sign that something is wrong with you. Although most of the world tries to convince itself otherwise, it takes strength to feel so deeply. The ones who just move on without hurting or seeming to care, they're the ones who are too weak to feel, too scared or hurt to be open, too lost to care. So let yourself feel and love yourself for it. It will pay off in the long run. 

[seenr]

rfriesen

Great post. I am struggling & this really helped me.

Thank You.

[rfriesen]

seenr

Thank you for reading. This process can be such a struggle. Writing out my experience is really therapeutic and helps me build on whatever progress I can make.

Thank you.

[seenr]

A friend recently told me not to date for 6 months after the split. At present I am 2 months in. I think her advice might be correct.

My top 6 negative thoughts are as follows:

1 - Your ex is now off having the time of her life, sleeping with someone else

2 - You are going to be alone, she is better looking than you & will attract someone sooner

3 - People do not like you

4 - Your ex's new partner will be a stepdad to your son

5 - Your ex never thinks of you at all

6 - Your ex doesn't love you any more

I am counter-acting them as follows:

1 - You have broken up with her a few times in the past 8 years and each time she has never replaced you. If she does, then you know this bloke will have a lot of good qualities  to match you.

2 - It is unlikely you will be alone and you haven't even started looking yet.

3 - People like you but are drained from hearing her name and seeing how down you are over her.

4 - Your son loves you, he can't let you out of his sight for a minute before he calls for you to join him

5 - You don't know that. You & her went a year apart before and she came back as nobody could match you

6 - She has told you that she doesn't love you many times before and has come back. You have told her you don't love her and you did. 'I love you' & 'I don't love you' are only words, they do not mean anything without action. Also, you know that if someone pushes you away, you try harder. She knows that too ... .

I am trying to do my own therapy in between counsellor/support group visits. Tough going, like taking 5 steps back to go 1 forward at times, but getting there.

seenr

Thank you for reading. This process can be such a struggle. Writing out my experience is really therapeutic and helps me build on whatever progress I can make.

Thank you.

[rfriesen]

8 years is a long time. I was with my ex for a year and a half and I feel like it has fundamentally changed me. I'm about three and a half months out now. Like you, the most invasive negative thought I have is of my ex out having the time of her life with someone else. I would like to get to a place where this doesn't bother me (after all, I'm the one who finally ended things), but that seems like a long way off now. Then I'm also often haunted by the feeling that I'm letting the chance slip to make some big gesture now, heal all the wounds, and begin a real life together.

I counter-act these thoughts by reminding myself of our day-to-day interactions over the last several months of our relationship, and the way she tried to discard and shut me out of her life, instantly jumping to new partners. She does not behave like a kind, caring person, and has explicitly stated she has no intention of reflecting on her own behaviour and trying to change.

So, for me, it's over. I have to accept that and move on, however painful that feels at times. seenr, when I read your list of negative thoughts and how you counter-act, it sounds like you may be looking for a reconciliation with your ex. Is that right? Do you think she will change at all if she comes back? Has she shown any willingness to work on herself and change in the past? If not, do you feel that you can change the relationship for the better by your efforts alone?

Only you can answer these questions for yourself. Take the time to really think through what you want and what seems possible with your ex. When I was still trying with my ex, I used to feel unbelievable anxiety, thinking that I needed to take some action quickly or "figure things out" quickly before I ran out of time or made an irreversible mistake. But trying to rush makes us blind. Take your time to think through what you truly want going forward.

[seenr]

At present, I do not think a reconciliation is possible. The only way would be to get counselling or some other professional service to intervene. I floated that idea before we even split and she said no. Before she put the final nail in the coffin, we met, it was amicable and I called her out on three things that I felt needed to change. I think on each, she refused to take responsibility and thus decided to end it the day after.

I am working with a Counselor to explore what my boundaries are if she came back. I have 5 items written on a page and will discuss with the Counsellor later. But after a lot of thought over the weekend, all 5 are deal breakers. I deserve better. I also know I can give better, which means not getting into a negatively spiralling row and not saying things I don't mean or regret.

So I am consciously detaching. I am no contact now for over 6 weeks which includes her using foul language during drop offs with my Son, slamming doors, people being around at drop off & collection times and other items that seem like anger on her part. He needs to come first and be the focus during handovers, not some bystander in a row. He is just too precious, a gift. I have kept all contact to email when discussing arrangements and everything business like and professional.

I do think she is gorgeous, the most beautiful woman in the world, on the outside. Inside, I see someone who hates herself, hates her life and brings others down to level the playing field. I see myself as more a 'rising tide lifts all boats' type person. In the past when we have split, I have taken my time, looked around for a relationship and met some nice ladies. She has met men who seemed to be after only one thing and had bad experiences. I do realise though she could meet someone who she falls madly in love with, but so could I.

She did say to me a couple of months ago that when we met, she didn't think it was possible to love anyone as much as she loved me but she was learning to trust me all over again. The biggest breaches of trust came from her and I have never been allowed to fully express my sorrow at some of her actions, whereas she has been able to cry on my shoulder about so much.

All I'm saying is I am preparing on a dual front and if I detach fully before she may make any more, then the likelihood is I will want to move on to pastures new by that time.

seenr, when I read your list of negative thoughts and how you counter-act, it sounds like you may be looking for a reconciliation with your ex. Is that right? Do you think she will change at all if she comes back? Has she shown any willingness to work on herself and change in the past? If not, do you feel that you can change the relationship for the better by your efforts alone?

Only you can answer these questions for yourself. Take the time to really think through what you want and what seems possible with your ex. When I was still trying with my ex, I used to feel unbelievable anxiety, thinking that I needed to take some action quickly or "figure things out" quickly before I ran out of time or made an irreversible mistake. But trying to rush makes us blind. Take your time to think through what you truly want going forward.

[Penelope35]

Not everybody finds love and this scares me. I wasn't looking for love for so long, not because I didn't want to but probably because I had put that need to sleep. And then I found it with him, I was happy only to be left heartbroken 

I've had those thoughts, too. I know for myself I'm having to do some reevaluation of my feelings for my ex. Was the love you found with him healthy? Was the intensity of it partly because of your reawakened need?

It definitely wasn't healthy love Steelwork and I am sure the intensity had to do with my reawakened need. But I am also sure it had to do with his exaggerated expression of feelings and everything that followed too. In any other case that would frighten me, but in this case I went along. I thought it was one of those rare cases that you fall madly in love with someone. I felt lucky in the beginning...

[Penelope35]

Hey Penelope-

I'm sorry you're in that place, but only a little sorry because I was too, and it is awesome on the other side, which you will get to, the only way out is through.  I don't know how long your relationship was, but just for reference, mine was about a year and it took the better part of a year to untangle, and it's not linear; two steps forward and one step back is still one step forward, and it's best to celebrate the progress, whatever progress there is.

I hate thinking that he may be happy with someone else and that I will never find someone to truly love me. All these thoughts are unbearable and I can feel the despair again... .It's bad

The best way to be truly loved is to truly love.  We've all heard the 'you can't love someone else until you love yourself' crap, overused so much to be meaningless really, and it might even piss you off because it doesn't come with instructions; how exactly do you do that?  Doesn't matter.  What matters is to shift the focus from him to you and from the past to the future, make those a priority and a project, the best of projects, and develop a vision for your bright future, the life of your dreams.  What would that look like?  And it sounds like he wouldn't be in it, with the way he treated you, but what and who will be?  And then make that vision big and bright, so it's compelling and will pull you towards it, then take on step in that direction.  Then another.  You'll be going on faith initially, but do it anyway, and after a while you'll notice progress, which builds momentum, and you'll get so caught up in that progress, the journey, the pursuit of the life of your dreams, that your ex will just fade into the past, not an area of focus for you at all, and before you know it you'll look back and see how far you've come, and then you will be free.  Plus, someone ecstatic about their life and in pursuit of their dreams is mighty attractive, and who shows up in that life you create is a wonderful mystery.  Not only what, we're wiser now, so if folks who are wrong for us show up, we'll know if right away and send them packing.  And the folks with those pesky personality disorders won't find us attractive, we're too ecstatic, not needy enough, not susceptible enough, so they'll move on to easier pickings.

So what does your bright future look like?

Thank you FHTH for your words of encouragement and I am happy for you for getting to the other side as I am sue you have also  been through a lot to get there. I think I panicked because the truth is I was doing better and I wasn't expecting to start feeling this way again.  Some days I am more positive and I have the energy to dream and plan for a better future for myself but then there are days when I just give up. This situation has left me drained and exhausted and I just don't want to make any more effort to feel better. My only wish for now is that I get into a healthy relationship which will prove how unhealthy this past relationship was and will help me see it for what it was... .I tend to over romanticize the relationship these days and that's not helping me at all.     

[Penelope35]

Hello Penelope,

I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this tough patch in time but know that it will pass like others have and you'll be in a better place. Take a deep breath and let it out slowly ... .it's going to get better.

Instead of thinking, wondering, questioning things about him ... .you need to concentrate on YOU.  Go for that walk, call an old friend & catch up, go to a movie, improve your position right now. It only takes a small forward step and you're on your way. Remember baby steps, the group here has your back and we are here for you.

I know at times it seems like it's never going to end, the hurt, the pain, the constant thoughts of what if, but let them pass, let them fly by as if they were bubbles on a current of wind. let them be carried away.

Things are going to get better Penelope  

Thank you JQ. I think focusing on our selves is the key but it's the hardest part too. My relationship was all about him and it is not easy to digest that he has wronged me so bad. I really don't know if I am ever going to fully overcome what has happened and a part of me believes that the only way to put this behind me is only if I find someone who will make this experience look smaller and less significant. I know it's wrong to put my hopes for feeling better on somebody else but If I am honest I have to say I feel too tired to make any other effort right now.   

[seenr]

These are tough feelings to deal with.

Do you feel ready & equipped for a new relationship penelope?


My relationship was all about him and it is not easy to digest that he has wronged me so bad. I really don't know if I am ever going to fully overcome what has happened and a part of me believes that the only way to put this behind me is only if I find someone who will make this experience look smaller and less significant. I know it's wrong to put my hopes for feeling better on somebody else but If I am honest I have to say I feel too tired to make any other effort right now.  

[Penelope35]

Oh, Penelope, I am sorry. I understand. Fromheeltoheal has some great advice... .I'm going to reread it and reread it and reread it.

Thank you atomic. And you are right that fhth has given us some great advise. I am thankful for this site and all of you

[Penelope35]

... .it's not linear; two steps forward and one step back is still one step forward, and it's best to celebrate the progress, whatever progress there is.

Yes, this is right. If you track your feelings and activities, maybe daily, you might see how you go up and down but are, generally speaking, moving in the right direction - away, forward.

Also, it sounds as if it's a message from him that threw you for a loop. Have you considered simply blocking him? You don't need to consider his feelings! You do, however, very much need to consider your own.

While you're healing, give the wound a chance to close up a little before you go poking around in there, or letting someone else (especially him) give it a little jab right into its sensitive core. Sorry for the forensics.

What other people are saying is bang on. Take care of yourself now. Chances are, even if you knew how to before that relationship, you've gotten out of the habit or even forgotten completely. It's important to remember and put all the little things into practise.

It gets easier and more natural to do that. And it gets easier and more natural to not miss the good without also seeing all the bad that was there. It's ok to miss the good, how good the good made you feel. Give yourself a break if you feel sad or down, but learn to temper it with reality and a little bit of bootstrapping yourself into doing good things for yourself.

Thank you Vitamin C. I think even though I m feeling so low these days, I kind of know that I am heading towards the right direction. I have blocked him on social media but haven't blocked his email and this is where I am getting the messages. Yesterday though I unblocked him on viber for about half an hour and to be honest the thought of him contacting me and me getting into all the craziness again scared the hell out of me so I blocked him back. But I had to do that to remember how bad it can get to be in contact with him

[Penelope35]

You'll be going on faith initially, but do it anyway, and after a while you'll notice progress, which builds momentum, ... .

I would just like to second this, Penelope, as it rings so true to my experience. I cut the quote off where I did, because I feel I'm only at that stage now, just starting to break through the worst of the heartache and to build some momentum. The hardest thing for me was to go on faith, just accepting that the only way forward was to keep detaching from my ex, not to go back to her, and to focus on my feelings and all the longing that I had to return, and to keep reminding myself that it doesn't lead me to a happy or healthy place. I say this is acting "on faith" because that longing I had for my ex was overpowering - that horrible feeling that I'll never have such intense pleasure and happiness again as those peaks with my ex. Walking away from that felt all wrong, but as fromheeltoheal says, it's about taking the first steps on faith, once you've somehow accepted that you're healthier away from the relationship.

And even though I feel I'm still only starting to detach, those first few steps have taught me a lot. I think what many of us have experienced with our exes is peaks of such intense pleasure that we thought we had found our home in the world. But now I use "pleasure" deliberately, and not "happiness" -- because, speaking for myself at least, these were momentary highs, not stable love and happiness. What I had with my ex was powerful and meaningful for me, but it wasn't love in the sense of a trusting, open relationship you can build a life partnership out of. At most the first few months showed some possibility of continuous happiness, but even then - in hindsight - it was unnaturally intense and couldn't have gone on like that.

I became hooked on the intense highs I had with my ex, and I shared her view of that as love ... .now I have no doubt that she's chasing the same highs with someone else, and maybe even finding them. Does that hurt? Yes, absolutely, and it cuts deep. But I keep reminding myself that that's not actually what I'm looking for, in building a life with someone. It's too chaotic, too variable, too painful, and for my ex to be able to just move from partner to partner looking for that ... .it's just not love in a way that I recognise anymore. Or I'm torn between that conception of love and the more open, stable, trusting form that I'm moving towards.

I'm sorry for rambling on about my own feelings. It's just that I know your pain and self-doubt. So many of us here do. And fromheeltoheal's advice resonates very deeply with me. You might feel despair. You might feel like you're making no progress. You might feel like you'll never get out of this hole. Let yourself feel whatever comes to you. Don't hold back. Observe your feelings. And then slowly start exploring what you envision as healthier feelings. What you would like to be doing with your days if you felt energetic and focused on yourself. What do you want to fill your life with? And if it's hard to picture because you're still so focused on your ex, try new things even if they don't excite you at first. If you're good to yourself and accept whatever feelings comes, while taking small steps to move on, you WILL feel better in time. It's hard to be patient, but it will come. And you will learn so much from having picked yourself up from such a low place.

Above all, be compassionate and loving with yourself now. The fact that you're hurting so much, that isn't a sign that something is wrong with you. Although most of the world tries to convince itself otherwise, it takes strength to feel so deeply. The ones who just move on without hurting or seeming to care, they're the ones who are too weak to feel, too scared or hurt to be open, too lost to care. So let yourself feel and love yourself for it. It will pay off in the long run. 

Rfriesen thank you so much for sharing your experience. You put into words exactly how I am feeling... .My fears, my doubts... .and above everything you reminded me of the reasons why I am still feeling the way I am feeling. Thank you for all the encouragement. I think I would have lost it completely if it wasn't for this page. I hope I find the strength for another baby step forward soon. I hope this journey will get us all in a better place 

[rfriesen]

Penelope, I really believe this journey will take us all to a better place if we just are open to our feelings, are kind to ourselves, and don't let cynicism or pain take over. It can feel awfully dark at times, can't it? There are still long stretches each day when I kind of lose hold on all my positive thoughts and certainty that I'm progressing. Mornings tend to be better, for some reason. I guess I'm just fresher, more energetic. I'm definitely still struggling to regain focus for work and energy throughout the day.

And I've come to see our mass media/romanticised/sexualised culture as a challenge too. We're inundated with images and songs and videos and commercials pushing those intense highs of infatuation, seduction, sexual connection. I'm not against any of that -- as all of us here know, some of the most intense and wonderful moments of our lives come from those highs. But when that's 90% of what we're fed, with very little in the way of encouragement or tools for moving from romantic highs to longterm stability, we all kind of end up chasing those highs over and over, not seeing that they're meant to be a bridge to something deeper (though less intense), and it's just a big mess of broken relationships. It's very very hard to feel grounded and comfortable in your own skin, when the culture makes you feel that everybody is chasing the same high and you should be too. I'm finding that trying to lift myself out of that point of view is really like swimming against the tide.

But then I think of my ex and a few of her close friends who are living that life -- looking very sexy, out partying, lots of intense sexual experiences ... .and the truth is, they're pretty unhappy for the most part. They have these intense highs that blind them to their misery, but when they're not feeling an intense high, they're often feeling broken-hearted or breaking someone else's heart, or convincing themselves not to feel too attached to anyone, to move on and find someone new. I remember that my ex's very best friend and I got along well -- she was one of the friends who was married and settled down. She used to love listening to my ex tell her all the stories of the wild sex my ex and I were having ... .but, looking back on it now, it's the kind of thing her best friend had obviously heard from my ex before and it was clear that she would never have traded places with my ex. She was much happier in a stable loving relationship while hearing about the wild times, rather than living them herself.

So I've come around to believing in the importance of role models early in life, and friends or acquaintances as we get older who can make us see the value and importance of open, honest, loving relationships. To counter the constant media/mass culture focus on intense romantic/sexual relationships that we get in movies, songs, ads, magazines ... .Otherwise we have no frame of reference beyond the message that everyone is chasing the same high over and over and that that's the whole point of life.

Sorry for the long diatribe, but I'll just add a quote from Jiddu Krishnamurti (an Indian philosopher) that I like to keep in mind when my mind goes over all these thoughts:

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Let's embrace our feelings and work through them, rather than trying to adjust them to relationships that gave us intense highs, but that we know are profoundly sick. We'll feel much healthier and happier for it in the end, I really believe that.

[Penelope35]

These are tough feelings to deal with.

Do you feel ready & equipped for a new relationship penelope?


My relationship was all about him and it is not easy to digest that he has wronged me so bad. I really don't know if I am ever going to fully overcome what has happened and a part of me believes that the only way to put this behind me is only if I find someone who will make this experience look smaller and less significant. I know it's wrong to put my hopes for feeling better on somebody else but If I am honest I have to say I feel too tired to make any other effort right now.  

Hi seenr. First of all thank you for all your insights on my post, it really helps me to read other people's coping ways.

Regarding your question... .The last time we broke up was back in December. He kept coming and going in my life (through messages, no action) till April when I finally took the decision to keep him away and stop responding. Since then he has contacted me 4-5 times but I struggled to not respond and I made it. I think I have been working on accepting the idea that it's over since December when I had hit rock bottom. Although I am nowhere near to feeling indiferrent about this experience of mine, I was doing much better than I am now. The way I think about it is this: My relationship was mostly based on a fantasy - that it could be as magical as he described it so many times. But that of course wasn't the reality. There were amazing moments but there were much more devastating ones. What I am trying to say is that, I think I am stuck because 1) I hold on to the idea of what this relationship could have been, not was it really was and 2) I feel so hurt that sometimes I want to go back to try and fix things so that I prove to myself that he didn't mean to hurt me. It's just incredibly difficult to accept that a man I loved with all my heart could be so wrong with me. I worked hard to reach those realisations and accept that there is no future with this person, but I do accept that now and I understand that I am still stuck for all the wrong reasons. But then all my fears of never finding true, mutual and respectful love kick in and I panick and I start questioning and doubting these realisations. And I end up missing him because that relationship and him is the most recent and most alive approximation of love I have right now. So I am thinking that a real love and a healthy experience could be what I need right now to make me once and for all see that relationship for what it really was and help me shut that door forever.

I don't know if I make sense. I hope I do English is not my first language and sometimes it is difficult to talk about stuff like that in a second language.

[seenr]

You make perfect sense. I can relate to a lot of what you have written.

It is scary to think that that person was a 'once in a lifetime' person and we might never love like that again. But the odds tell us that we will :-)

I don't know if I make sense. I hope I do English is not my first language and sometimes it is difficult to talk about stuff like that in a second language.

[JQ]

Things are going to get better Penelope  

Thank you JQ. I think focusing on our selves is the key but it's the hardest part too. My relationship was all about him and it is not easy to digest that he has wronged me so bad. I really don't know if I am ever going to fully overcome what has happened and a part of me believes that the only way to put this behind me is only if I find someone who will make this experience look smaller and less significant. I know it's wrong to put my hopes for feeling better on somebody else but If I am honest I have to say I feel too tired to make any other effort right now.  

Penelope,

I know that all of this seems to be so overwhelming & it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel so early in your journey. As a "recovering codependent" myself & like most of us in the group, I completely understand where you're coming from when you said, "My relationship was all about him"  As codependents we find our sense of self through others in all life aspects.  This is only part of the reason why a really good therapist is needed to help you sort through your feelings, thoughts, emotions, guilt, remorse, loss. To help you work through things that will give you your own sense of self and that can be a very daunting task if giving the reasons most of us are in the group.

BUT, even though it can be a daunting task, it's NOT an impossible task as some of us in the group will testify too.  

You said, "1) I hold on to the idea of what this relationship could have been, not was it really was and 2) I feel so hurt that sometimes I want to go back to try and fix things so that I prove to myself that he didn't mean to hurt me."  This is classic NON aka Codependent behavior, the "perfectionist", "if I fix it things will be perfect & they have no reason to be upset, angry or rage & will love me".  It's classic Sheriff with the Shining badge syndrome riding in on your white horse to save the day or in this case the r/s in order to live a better, quite, peaceful, loving, caring r/s.  I can say this because as a "recovering codependent" I was all those things & more. It took a lot of work to learn to let things go that were beyond my control & learn to live MY life for MYSELF!  I am responsible for MY happiness & NO ONE else's. For a NON this is so very hard to come to grip with. For me I had to go back to my childhood & learn why my inner child learned to become a perfectionist, the Sheriff wearing the shining badge, the Knight in Amor protecting others.  I truly believe until a NON/codependent goes back & explores their entire life and ask the tough questions why they are a NON & how did I get here, then the journey will be a long uphill climb.

Once you learn to love yourself & all the things YOU have to offer the world, then you'll never have to worry about, "fears of never finding true, mutual and respectful love"  From your writings I can tell you are an AMAZING person who loves & cares deeply for others. Turn some of that towards yourself and learn to live your life for yourself. When you're living your life & having fun, laughing, enjoying the small things, then someone will take notice and want to be a part of that. THAT is the person who will become an equal loving, caring person in your life. Two separate happy people with their OWN lives but wanting to share them with someone else. It's ok to share yourself, your life with someone else, but don't lose yourself in the process. Remember that person will fall in love with the person you are, your independence, your laughter, your thoughts, ideas and feelings of expression.  Never lose yourself in the pursuit of someone, they should compliment you & their life as you do with them.

It's going to get better, baby steps forward, stumble, fall, pick yourself back up again, hold out a hand to the group if you need too but your journey of self discovery is yours and yours alone. We can't tell you what path to take, but we'll be here to support you along the way. As long as you have the group, you'll never be alone.  

J

[Penelope35]

Rfriesen, thank you for all the insights. I do agree that we are affected by media in regards to the kinds of emotions we should be chasing. On the other hand though, my understanding after some months in these boards is that for most of us here, these experiences with our exs were new to us. And this is what has happened with me too. All my previous relationships were more or less healthy ones or normal I could say. I had never experienced such a strong intensity of positive and negative feelings. I never expected to feel this way and I was never looking to feel this way. I didn't even know I could feel this way in a relationship to be honest. The worst part is that the longer we stay in those relationships, the more we "normalize" them and the more difficult it is for us to accept that those intense feelings don't stem from real healthy love but they are rather a mixture of love, neediness, addiction and obsession. And we should not be looking for anything similar. A few people in the boards mentioned how their next relationships seemed boring, an this has to do with the fact that they became so familiar with the chaos of a relationship with someone with BPD. This is probably one of the reasons why we should allow time between relationships. So as to have enough time to bring our systems back to normal functioning.