Is she experiencing BPD or ...?

[Black Dog House]

Hi. New to the forum, and very concerned about my (ex?) GF. For cultural reference, I am an American who lives in Scandinavia. My GF is a native to the country.

Does this sound very familiar to you? I’m suspecting high-functioning quiet BPD traits, among other things. Any input is greatly appreciated, also from anyone experiencing BPD issues. I am non-judgemental about this condition. After much research, I truly understand this is nothing anyone would wish to deal with. I truly feel an enormous obligation to approach my “ex” and help her, but have no idea if I should, nor how to go about it. I am assuming she is feeling hatred toward me at this point. I’ve been painted black, is what I am sensing.

And yes, I am currently working on my own codependent issues, that I am well aware exist. With that said, this relationship was very one-sided. I found myself working overtime to make GF happy. I am simply no longer willing to walk on eggshells. I need to get healthy again and focus on my own well-being.

GF is 46, has three children (23, 18, 12), two still at home. I am 53, no children. We were dating for three years - no breaks. We were not cohabitating. Her father died at 53, alcohol related. Her only sibling, her brother, died of a heroin overdose at 29 after several attempts. He succeeded two months after GF was forced to throw him out, when he had been staying w her. Her brother was apparently the golden child. Dad would get drunk, sit with his arm around his daughter, looking toward mom and brother, saying "they're the goods ones, and we're the bad." It's heart-wrenching for me to even write it now. GF said she hated his pitifulness. GF says mom would just shut down.

GF’s mood is often flat, smiles rarely, LOTS of shame, I sense. Admitted low self-esteem. She is incapable of sitting for long without feeling restless or agitated. Impatience is another issue. She is very structured, has a routine she MUST follow, and there is little to no room for spontaneity. She claims this is due to her busy life w kids and full-time work. I’m not certain that is all there is to it.

She’s been taking anti-depressants for many years. Her doctor claims she will never get off them, at this point. She claims she was tapering off spring, last year, when I was out of the country, and that she was “feeling crazy, and I wished you were here, but so glad you weren’t.” She said she had thoughts of leaping from her apartment window. She said she tried tapering off her meds again later the same year, again, when I was out of the country. I must admit, I am suspicious as to why she does this each time I am gone, without informing me until I return.

I’m wondering if she is being treated properly/misdiagnosed. Her therapist has very recently made the judgement she is dealing w HSP, or Highly Sensitive Person. This does not account for the behavior I am seeing and sensing, and I am pretty certain I am the only one witnessing it, besides her kids, perhaps. Early into our relationship, while just shooting the breeze and the atmosphere was relaxed, her youngest daughter commented “mom, you can get SO angry.” GF said nothing. I’ve never witnessed her become angry w her kids. In fact, my opinion is she has poor boundaries. They have NO chores. She waits on them hand and foot, is over-protective and to my mind her child-rearing style is not age-appropriate. Her 23 year-old daughter has low self-esteem and fears cycling, although she is a spinning instructor. Go figure. The son is 18 and ALSO does not feel safe cycling (this is Scandinavia, remember, where EVERYONE cycles). He interacts with us very little, sits in his room all day and night on Play Station. Both the son and GF have been treated for anxiety. GF says during her marriaige she hid in the bathroom for two years and cried.

GF has said more than once “if you knew what went on in my head, you’d run away screaming.” Often when I try to talk about the relationship, she shuts down, trys to divert or weeps and says she cannot handle conflict or that she cannot deal with being criticized. GF asks often “are you irritated/angry with me? You know I can’t handle it.” She has no problem expressing those emotions. GF never curses at me, which is odd, because she can yell like a champ, and is very passive-aggressive. I began to sense a lot of anger in her early on. She has gotten physical with me, once, punching and kicking me, and on a few others I was on my guard, sensing she could do it again. I have never hit her or been physically aggressive toward her.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Black Dog House]

I cannot recall all details, but one aspect of her behavior I found odd at the formative outset was how tense she seemed when I visited her and her kids were present. She explained she was hypervigilant of any potential conflicts that could arise. She said her radar was always on. I began to experience occasions where she would go "cold and silent." Celebrating my birthday one year, she would not even look at me, but continued to talk to her kids and other guests. It was painfully evident she was freezing me out. I later asked why, and she was angry. Said I was condescending after making a statement (something innocuous) and laughing. I was stunned. I started hearing that more and more: I was critical, arrogant, talked down to her etc. She has on more than one occasion said "you know I have low self-esteem."

She began showing increasing signs of this. I found she would misinterpret a word, phrase or look. Eventually she began to rage, at times, over a perceived slight. Hypersensitivity to being observed very apparent: "Why are you looking at me? Stop watching me eat. Why are you looking at/commenting on my food?" Did not like me to watch her undress. She is overweight, which she claims is the meds, but she often skips meals when we are together and claims to not eat a lot of evenings, unless the kids need fed. I suspect she may binge?

When triggered she would become angry and just leave me where I was sitting. She would go to her apartment and make no attempt to contact me for days, unless it was to immediately fire off a volley of angry texts. If I did come after her right away, she may not let me in, and if she did, she was despondent, in a daze. She explained that “I get in a mood and I cannot get myself out of it again.”  She did seemingly want me to understand her. I have made several attempts to suggest couples counselling, which she refuses.

We used to brush our teeth together, but at one point I noticed she would no longer do this. I asked why, and she said we didn't need to share every intimate thing together.

Our last evening together, I came over to her place and she greeted me w a hug. I came into the dining room; her daughters were there. I gave them both hugs and we talked for a little while, then they left to go to their father’s. As soon as they had left GF asks “why did you look angry when you came in?” Sigh. If I had a nickel for every time my mood was misinterpreted … I washed up her dishes for her, made dinner, and offered to get her on the massage table, She has chronic headaches, back pain, sinus infections, among other ailments. Somatic?. She generally never declines, but this time she did. We were watching TV on the sofa all evening. Our “routine” was she would usually fall asleep, and this night was no exception, or so I thought. She started heading upstairs and said angrily for me to turn the TV down, she was going to sleep. I confronted her and she said she was angry that I changed the channel without asking her. I said I thought she was asleep, and she said she wasn’t. “Why didn’t you say you were awake,” I ask? “Why didn’t you ask me,” is the reply? She said I was selfish and just started yelling. I lost my cool a bit, tired of being reasonable, and  I said “are you crazy?” She rose, went to the front door, opened it, and said “out.” I snapped. I’d had enough, and said “I will not return this time.” She said “fine.”

Two months later, and the only contact to occur after the “split” (pun intended) is three angry messages within two days over money I owe her for a concert we did not attend – due to the split. She became indignant I would not reply, so I finally did. I answered cordially, despite her curtness, saying I’d send the money, and her reply, again “fine.” Since then, N/C on both sides. It does not appear she has unfriended me or my family on FB. I’ve been advised to do so myself, but I’m not sure I will, yet. I cannot see me returning to the chaos, no matter how much she does or does not love me. Her behavior is simply unacceptable, and it is not healthy for me. This I know. However, I need to sort this out for myself, and I am truly concerned for her well-being. I sense she was attempting to test me or perhaps sabotoge our relationship. I am admittedly to proud to reach out at this point. She has treated poorly for too long. But I sense it's the illness, or false self, at work, not her true self. Inside that chaotic mind is a beautiful individual I have been able to see, when I peel away the mask.

Once again, does this sound very familiar to anyone?

[Black Dog House]

I forgot to mention an important feature. The oldest daughter is a spinning instructor and is obsessed with her weight. She has previously been treated for bulemia, used to measure and weigh her meal portions.

[Akita]

Hello

My BPDw and I are currently having a discussion over misunderstandings.  She feels hurt by my words and tone.  I tell her I didn't mean to have a tone and I wasn't mad.  She still feels hurt and angry because I don't understand her.  She says I can't see her.  She asked me what she is supposed to do in that moment and I can't tell her.  She sounds like your gf.  She is the quiet type but can throw things and swear at me or our son.  I tell her my intention with what I said and she retells me how it was for her.  Feels like an impasse.  Mine is in therapy and has been for a year with minimal improvement.  She is just now starting lamictal.  They had her on celexa before but it did nothing.  I think you should try to help.  Try to see from her perspective.  I can't do this yet.  If you care about her do give her your best efforts.  It's incredibly difficult and frustrating to be the person with borderline personality... .no one speaks your language and no one can see how much you hurt.

[Black Dog House]

Hi Akita. Thanks for your reply. That's rough, what you are experiencing. Having a mutual child in the mix is a tough nut, I'm sure. I have no idea how my ex is with her kids when I'm not there, but when I am present, she seems overly-cautious they do not hear any discussions or what-not, to the point of anxiousness. I'm not sure that is healthy, either. Kids pick up on that tension, I'm sure. She only acts out when they are not there. This gets me to thinking she must have a modicum of control over her behavior.

I simply do not know of any way to communicate with her that will not be interpreted as criticism or anger at some point, hence I walk on eggshells, and hence I suggested intervention/counceling, that we my learn to communicate without it triggering her. She refused. How can I now help? And I certainly do try to see it from her perspective, but it is impossible for me to get into her head. I could say virtually anything to her and it can be misconstrued. I could be admiring her while she does something around the home, thinking how beautiful she looks, and she will feel observed negatively. It is nothing I can avoid. It happens infrequently, and I never know when.

As far as what your woman should do in that moment, I wish I could answer that for you. I tried patiently to stay in the moment and tell her I meant nothing malicious by it. I recall several times saying "I'm not you enemy, why would I want to harm you?" Often she would accept a hug, other times she would not let me near her. Many times she could regroup with kind words and a gentle tone. Sometimes she couldn't. The worst part is when I express a need or desire and she derails. Even a difference of opinion about something topical could provoke anger. I never could predict what she would construe threatening, and found myself avoiding any discussions that could lead to a disagreement.

It's good you wife is seeking help and I truly hope progress begins to develop.

[Black Dog House]

I realize my initial story is a bit long and may seem convoluted. I suppose what I feel I need at this moment is to decide if I should simply walk or at the very least try to be understanding. I am admittedly angry, and have mixed feelings. My ex is not in my mind a caring or considerate person. I sit and wonder if she is happy to be free or hurting; if I have added to her shame and trauma, or she is indifferent. I have absolutely no way of knowing.

I said harsh things on the way out the door. Things I knew would cut deep. Things I have never said to her before. I never attempted to hurt her before. This time, I'm sure I did. The question now remains, is it in her mind forgotten? Has she moved on? Would it be conceivable that she would not reach out now or accept any form of amicable communication because I shamed her? Would she be receptive if I offer an apology and explained myself? It would cut me, because I am tired of apologizing to her. It would bury me, if she ghosted or rejected the gesture. I do try and get my mind around the fact her way of functioning cognitively and emotionally are highly divergent from my own, and most likely yours. Still, I'll feel like a total tool if I reach out and discover she's already snagged a new man, or rejects me.

I told her I would not be coming back, and yet she has not unfriended me or my family on FB, which was our major comm channel. She is very media savy, and I believe she would have cut ties if she were done. Leaving the door open? Do I sound ambivelant, or what? ;-)

I conveyed my guilt to my my therapist, who told me she thinks I let her off easy - she knows all the details of my experience and what I have been going through. Still, I am racked with guilt. For whatever reason I still have deep feelings for her. Some days I feel strong and others I just feel like a douche for hurting her, even though she has hurt me, over and over.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

[Naughty Nibbler]

HI BLACK DOG HOUSE:

Sounds like a touch situation with your ex.  Good to read that you have a therapist.  Unfortunately you can't change her, only the way you interact and react.  It is unfortunate that she wouldn't go to counseling with you.

Sometimes, there is co morbidity of things going on.  Did she ever indicate why she made a couple of attempts to go off her meds?  Did she perhaps attribute her weight gain to the meds?  She could be using food to sooth her.

There is a lot of information here that you should find helpful.  Perhaps reading about FOG Fear, Obligation and Guild will be helpful in handling your guilt.

BOUNDARIES are something important that you will want to practice.

You did a good job of documenting you situation.  It is good to journal your thought and it can be very therapeutic.  One way to deal with the guilt you have about some things is to write a letter.  Prepare it as if you are going to send it, but don't send it.  You can always change your mind down the road and send it, but just hold onto it for now.  Perhaps discuss it with your therapist.

What are you doing to take care of yourself?  (exercise, hobbies, mindfulness, meditation, etc.)

Come back and post some more.  You will probably get more replies with shorter posts and maybe breaking things up into chunks.  I can relate to the value of getting your story out there, that in of itself is therapeutic

[Akita]

I think you should talk to her.  You need to know where she stands on what happened.  If you can get back together it would be helpful if she got some help.  So far my wife hasn't decided that therapy or medication is worth anything but she is still trying her best to work with them.  Communication is key.  You do need to figure out a way to not trigger her.  Here is my analogy.  Let's say you throw something and she gets hit.  From her perspective it looks like you 100% threw it at her.  You tell her no I was throwing it at the couch, i didn't mean to hit you at all.  The fact that you tell her the throwing wasn't malicious doesn't make her any less hit and hurt.  The same holds try when you emotionally hurt her... .you may say it wasn't malicious but she is still hurt.  My wife and I have not figured out how to prevent this i have told her maybe her therapist can help us.

[Black Dog House]

Naughty Nibbler, thanks for responding. While writing my lengthy screed, I was aware it may deter some from replying. This is the first forum I have joined after having read voraciously about PDs and BPD in particular, as well as FOG, which is very enlightning, you are right. It was cathartic for me to write it out, as I actually got in contact with some emotions in the process. Good advice, to break it up in chunks moving forward.

The thought of taking anti-depressants the rest of her days frustrates her. I also sense it reinforces her fear she is very ill without understanding why. Her attempts were made under supervision of her GP, and after this last attempt, he stated his opinion she would not get off them. It tears her up. She does state the meds are causing the weight gain, but she does not exercize and she may eat to soothe. Her behavior is conspicuously secretive, and I have considered she may structure and control as she does to conceal her eating, among other things.

Boundaries, ah, yes. I wish I had recognized BPD traits much earlier and the significance of boundaries. I assumed I was dating a mature adult, despite evidence that contradicts this. I still question whether pwBPD are aware of being manipulative. I personally find it hard to believe they are not aware on some level. I unwittingly and increasingly softened my boundaries due to the volatile responses I received when she did not get things her way. Saying no and disagreeing just meant we could kiss another planned event good-bye, if I stood my ground. My T says it could have simply pushed the r/s to a breaking point much sooner. The result is I feel emotiionally blackmailed and resentful, in the end. I feared losing her and was weary of her disengaging, angry reactiveness, so I began letting her have her way. Sad, but true. Either way, I can't help think she would have bailed at some point if I had been firmer earlier on. I am also left wondering if she would have respected me more and it could have increased her willingness and desire to stay. I've read that codependents get chewed up, while pwNP are like crack to a pwBPD. They find the abuse and excitement stimulating, as they are addicted to drama and chaos. Whereas they find codependents simply too boring, in the long run.

I have no illusion I can change her, she has to be willing to do it. But first, she has to see her own issues for what they are and admit to the problems she brings to the table, not just in our r/s, but any. I recall her saying once, she is the way she. She is aware she has issues, but seems to resent me if I do not simply except her exactly as she is. I love the woman, but if she loves me, she needs to decide I'm worth it, and that means she needs to look inward and decide she is ready to do some work herself. I'm not holding any high hopes she will. This is why I left. I respect the tenacity of many who are still holding out and trying to make it work after many years, but for me, no one is worth it, if I have to become a caretaker and get mowed over for my troubles.

As I wrote before, I'm simply trying to decide if and how to contact her at this point, to let her know I still care. She may believe I hate her, if she takes my words and actions from our last encounter to heart. Staying in it as she now behaves is a stretch.

[Black Dog House]

Akita, I really do want to communicate with her, but have no clue how to do this. And getting her to acknowledge she needs help is something I am convinced will just get thwarted. She is very much in denial. How to tell her I sense she needs help is not my highest priority. First, friendly, or at least civil dialog would be a big step.

In response to not triggering her, at this point, the only way to avoid triggering her is to say nothing, do nothing, and never look at her. Even then, she would get upset over my apathy. Her perceptions are irrational, imagined and it is not something I can see any way to control completely or elliminate. I am certain there are ways to limit her feelings of defensiveness, f.x. by adopting a new communication technique, but I would not likely never trigger her.

Also, her refusal to seek help with me, which I offered to pay for, does not promote my feeling there is much real commitment to solving the issue. It simply does not seem to register with her there is an issue. Her staunch refusal to engage in any therapeutic process with me in the room is most likely rooted in her fear of exposure.

I can now see, after much research, I could have adopted other ways of explaining how her actions make me feel and affect me, but I've heard professional clinicians say it is a real tightrope, even for them, when a pwBPD does commit to therapy. As a lay person, I feel unarmed.

[Akita]

I agree it is challenging and I don't know how to not trigger.  I've told mine I can't do or say anything right and she feels like that is an attack.  She feels like I'm putting it all on her.  She hates meds because it is concrete proof that she doesn't have a normal brain and that's very distressing.  Her therapist did say she may not have to be on them long term, they will help her get through therapy and make progress.  Maybe you can share that thought with your gf if you can find common ground to have a civil discussion.  Getting mine on medication took her psychologist, me, and her sister months to convince her to even try.  She was very put off about seeing a new dr and explaining why she needed help.  She had been monitored by a PA-C in her psychologist's office but he decided she was out of his "comfort" zone due to her "behaviors". She is still very annoyed by this and knows it's just because he hates her for no reason.  There are other ppl available in his office to monitor meds but none of them would take her on as a client.  She is certain this is because of the label "borderline".  Not anything she did.  She has left her psychologist's office several times before her time was up.  She uses the f-word toward him.  She writes him letters he calls "charming".  Her feelings get hurt over his reaction to the letters.  She is just trying to make him understand.  They are vulgar letters.  However, she does lay out how therapy is going in her opinion.  I don't know how long this can last.  She expects him to fire her.  She feels like things are going well and he tells her she is making miniscule progress and must leave her comfort zone.  She is crushed by this.  She refuses to see anyone else.  This is her 4th professional she has told about her issued and she won't do it again.  So yes therapy is a tightrope.  I'm not sure how you can approach your gf... .maybe through fb if that's your main way to communicate.  Maybe try to keep it real casual and don't try the heavy stuff until you are reestablished as a friend?