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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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DepthTested

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
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« on: June 28, 2016, 10:30:36 AM »

A borderline, we'll call her Lisa, entrapped me with a pregnancy to prevent me from moving away for my career. We were not in a relationship and she told me she was infertile and taking birth control pills to correct the problem. She went to some lengths to convince me of this. A week before I was to move, she came to me and said she was pregnant. She screamed at me that I needed to do the right thing and stay with her. I had never seen her like this before. I realized she was troubled and moved away.

When the child was born, a boy we'll call Tyler, she refused a paternity test but demanded support. The court forced her to get the test. Eventually, she did, and the Tyler was mine. I attempted to be in his life from a distance, but it became clear that my efforts to be involved gave her the wrong idea. Her behavior became more and more disturbed. By the time Tyler was five I decided I would need the help of a therapist to deal with her and remain in his life. I was angry and depressed. I was loaded with guilt. This is when I first learned about BPD. I put a low contact, parallel parenting plan in place, and it helped, but her manipulations never fully stopped. Any time I tried to bond or get close to my son, she created chaos and drama which pushed me away. Eventually, I got married and had a child with my wife. This caused Lisa to behave more erratically, but she projected it on to Tyler.

When Tyler became a teenager, I made an extra effort to be more involved with him. I told myself that Lisa seemed to be getting better, but in fact, this was the calm before the storm. She seemed to sense that Tyler was growing closer to me, and it freaked her out. She took me to court for an increase in child support, even though I had always helped her financially. But in true BPD style, she turned what should have been a very straightforward modification into an expensive and drawn out affair. She used Tyler (and my concern for him) to get info for her case, she told lies, attacked me in court filings and demanded way more than she was entitled to. She would agree to compromises then change her mind at the last moment, costing me more legal fees. Luckily, my lawyer figured her out and took a very assertive approach to her. This forced her to settle. The day after she received her increased payment my son told me he wanted me out of his life. I knew they were her words, but I decided it was time to move on.

With the help of a therapist highly experienced with borderlines, I extracted Lisa and Tyler from my life. He was clearly alienated and wasn't old enough to know the truth about his birth and his mother's disorder. It wasn't an easy decision, but it was the right one. I've continued to work with my therapist to deal with my family of origin issues that caused me to take responsibility for a borderline's issues. I've refocused my energy on my wife and our son. This is all good. but the scars remain. i will forever have a broken relationship with a child I never wanted. He will have to deal with the psychological fallout from that, not to mention, the damage caused by being raised by a borderline.

Borderlines are nothing to be messed with. They are psychopathic in nature. They will get in your head and cause massive destruction. My advice is to get them out of your life immediately. If you have children with one, don't torture yourself by trying to be involved, you won't be able to help the child until they're away from her. Accept that and get on with your life.
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catclaw
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2016, 11:40:05 AM »

Hey depthtested 

I'm sorry for what you've experienced. I know how hard this situation is for everyoneinvolved but i disagree with your statement that the kids can't be helped as long as pwBPD is involved. I'm a stepmom to a boy who still has regular contact with his BPD mom and our family offers him a glimpse at a life he'd never have known if it wasn't for his father and our families of origin. He's learning that there actually ARE reliable adults and that one HAS to fight for their goals and not just wait. He learns that BPDm has a different view and that there are differences between adults and parents and life choices. We support him finding his own identity aside from his mom's need to establish an identity through him and this needs encouragement. One day he will be able to choose which life he wants for himself. Is it easy to have a pwBPD in the background? Nope. Not a single day. But i knew what i went for when i married my husband  (who was also lied to by BPDx regarding birth control. This is a common issue).

As long as you are happy and feel like you did your best (and you went great lengths to make sure tyler has a father, which is more than most people in that situation would do. My deepest respect!), it's great that you are taking care of yourself now. Maybe one day you get another chance to meet tyler. He will have questions and i wish you the right things to say 
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ForeverDad
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2016, 02:42:01 PM »

Maybe one day you get another chance to meet Tyler. He will have questions and I wish you the right things to say 

I agree with all that catclaw wrote.  You are still a parent even though you were alienated.  Keep the documentation that you tried to be involved in his life.  Almost surely part of her alienation was claiming you didn't love him, didn't care for him or just walked away.  One day you may be able to have a conversation with him and be able to set the record straight.  Whether he can overcome his childhood programming, that's up to him but for all you know you might be able to have a positive impact once he's an adult and custody laws don't apply.

And that's what happens when you combine mental illness, acting-out, blame-shifting, entitlement, punishment, etc with custody/parenting.  It doesn't make sense but it's there nonetheless.

Clearly mother is alienating them now.  And stepping out of the picture isn't a great answer either because then Ex will claim, "See?  I told you, he doesn't love you or care about you or he wouldn't have walked out on you."  They would never hear your side of the story or that you didn't abandon them or walk away, you were driven away.

I wrote this many years ago:

You don't have to be perfectly normal or perfectly whatever.  As your kids grow up, they may ask you, "Have you done all you could for me, fight for me, be there for me?"  And you'll answer, "Yes, I did my reasonable best."  The kids don't expect SuperMan or SuperWoman, they'll be happy with just you and their dad as you are.

There are no guarantees in life but at least you can do your reasonable best.

So many of us here feel burned by our experiences and cheated out of parenting.  I feel that deep down you would admit he was a huge shock but not necessarily unwanted.  Though unprepared and surprised you were ready to step up and parent, if only you would have not been so obstructed and your son so influenced or alienated.  Please, keep your eyes open in case an opportunity arises for you to heal the past with your son.  He may not be inclined to listen or keep listening but who knows what bridges can be mended if he sits in with you and your therapist or if he gets his own counselor.  You never know... .

And this is one of the reasons we don't unilaterally yell 'run' just because of BPD or some other acting-out PD.  The children are still precious.*  And while many people with BPD are high conflict, others may not be as oppositional.  Or the professionals (perceptive therapists, proactive lawyers, informed courts and agencies) may be able to reduce or at least limit the obstruction and discord.  So a blanket warning may not apply to all.

*  Edit:  I do agree that we should avoid having children with a controlling or acting-out person but too often we don't realize how acting-out or controlling a person might be until afterward.  That said, if we do have a child and discern serious behavioral issues then, yes, no more children with that person, don't complicate an already difficult situation.

There are many communication tools and skills here at this site.  We're glad you came, please feel free to browse.  As I've said for years, the more we learn the more informed and more confident our decisions.
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DepthTested

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Posts: 6


« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2017, 12:39:43 PM »

I feel that deep down you would admit he was a huge shock but not necessarily unwanted.  Though unprepared and surprised you were ready to step up and parent, if only you would have not been so obstructed and your son so influenced or alienated. 

No, he was unwanted. I did not love his mom. I did not want her in my life. She was a sexual fling, at best. I begged her not to have the child. I asked her why she would bring a child into this world to a father who was moving away and would never truly feel close to the child. I asked her why she'd do this to a child. It made no sense. What I failed to understand is that she is narcissistic. I should have made it about her. I should have asked her why she would do such a life-shattering thing to herself. She didn't care about me or the child. Her disorder doesn't let her.

My son, though he is a good kid, never brought a moment of pure joy to me. How could he? Getting close and bonding with him was how she manipulated me. I learned early on that any hope of me being in his life required distance, both physical and emotional. Otherwise, I didn't feel emotionally safe. It was draining to juggle so many contradictory emotions in order to barely connect with him a couple times a year (or every few weeks over the phone). I have another son with my wife. I now know what it feels like to truly love and care for a child, to feel that uninhibited joy.

All that said, I do believe that perhaps someday, Tyler, will be part of my life. I can't change the past, but I can influence the future. Maybe.

Thanks for your reply. Though I disagree with a few minor points, your comments are truly helpful.
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DepthTested

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2017, 02:12:49 PM »

Thanks for your feedback. I missed it a year ago when you actually made the comment, but maybe that's because I'm now in a better place to absorb it.

i disagree with your statement that the kids can't be helped as long as pwBPD is involved. 

I used a bad choice of words when I said they can't be helped. What I meant was that at that moment, I was in no kind of mental state to help him. My anger and frustration had overtaken me. I was no longer able to separate him from his mother. She had alienated him and used him against me. I needed space to unwind the chaos in my mind. That wasn't going to happen as long as he (his mother) was in my life. I needed space to heal. My psychologist also realized that in trying to "help" Tyler, I was not bonding with my other son, who I did choose to have with my wife. I realized it was better to be a good dad to at least one of them, than to be a bad Dad to both. So yes, I had to make a hard choice, but it was the right one. (Borderlines always give us two bad choices, force us to choose, then attack us no matter what we do.)

I'm a stepmom to a boy who still has regular contact with his BPD mom and our family offers him a glimpse at a life he'd never have known if it wasn't for his father and our families of origin. He's learning that there actually ARE reliable adults and that one HAS to fight for their goals and not just wait. He learns that BPDm has a different view and that there are differences between adults and parents and life choices.

One time my son said to me, ":)ad, I like your place, it's so calm." At the time, because our home is very modern and neat, I thought he was referring to the overall vibe. His mom's home, while not dirty, is cluttered and disorganized. Later, my psychologist said, "No, he most likely meant calm, as in, no conflict. The decor may help him get that sense, but he's feeling the harmony and stability." So, to your point, we can offer a different perspective to children.

In a year or so, he will be emancipated and that will hopefully allow me to reconnect with him, if he so chooses. (His mother is likely to try to get the law in the state we live in since it's more favorable to her. That could prolong the estrangement.) During these intervening years, I've been working with a psychologist to understand how to best communicate with Tyler. At first, I wanted to just vent about what his mom did, but now I realize that he'll come to a realization of what happened in his own time and I need to let that happen. That's where true love comes in, having the patience and restraint to let him heal at his own pace, even if I want to make myself feel better at a quicker pace.

Thanks for your comments, they are helpful.
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livednlearned
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Relationship status: Married
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2017, 12:57:37 PM »

During these intervening years, I've been working with a psychologist to understand how to best communicate with Tyler. At first, I wanted to just vent about what his mom did, but now I realize that he'll come to a realization of what happened in his own time and I need to let that happen. That's where true love comes in, having the patience and restraint to let him heal at his own pace, even if I want to make myself feel better at a quicker pace.

That's really wise of you, DepthTested. I'm so sorry for the pain you've had to experience. I can only imagine the path to healing that's led you to this point.

Your son has probably learned to compartmentalize his emotions. Letting him come to terms with his relationship with you separate from his stuff with his mom takes a lot of courage on your part. Validating the feelings of an alienated child is one of the hardest things I've done as a parent.

Have you come across RyanSpeaks.com? He is a formerly alienated child who ended up reuniting with his father. There may be some wisdom in his story that resonates with your own.

LnL 

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Breathe.
DepthTested

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Posts: 6


« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2017, 11:23:41 AM »


Have you come across RyanSpeaks.com? He is a formerly alienated child who ended up reuniting with his father. There may be some wisdom in his story that resonates with your own.

[/quote]

Thanks for your support and feedback, I'll check out Ryan's site.
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