Loosing myself: indecisive

[Hlinthewiking]

Hi folks,

I'm here to ask for help and seek other people's experience on this matter because I'm afraid of completely loosing it, I feel that I'm close.

My girlfriend has BPD, we started to date January 2015, I broke up for reasons that will follow in September, but since I love her so deeply, I couln't stand it and we ended up getting back together in about January/Febuary this year (2016).

I'm in constant alert even when we are not together, she sleeps with me on Wednesday's and Friday thru Monday, I started doing that because taking more time apart was really really hard to maintain. When we are not together, I need to talk to her all the time, I mean really, if we don't talk for 2h, I better prepare for a night of hell and anguish. She never seeks me, unless it's because I took too long to talk to her first, then even if I reply right away, she will be mad, curse me, ignore me for hours, and that's only because I have to beg and apologize even though I know I did nothing wrong.

She denies having any problems, she puts it all on me and says I'm the only reason she feels alone or neglected. we still had the same problems before the first break up, but now she blames it all on the time we were apart and I went out with several other girls, she dug it up on my computer, she's always checking my computer and phone, sometimes when she's alone at my place she stays over 4 hours going thru my computer's history, then even has delusions about idiotic popups I come up with or female family members I check on Facebook.

She say's she doesn't like my friends even though she only saw 4 of them and once, she won't let me see them and she won't go on parties and gatherings with me, she won't let me sleep unless she's dead tired and feels I'v given her enough attention and love before our good night, she's almost always on a bad mood, I feel like I can't be myself and I need to watch what I say.

I'm a hard to please guy and I had the best sex with her, that's one of the reasons I went out with so many people during our break up, no one could satisfy me, initially I though the sex could be keeping me, but now I know it's not it, lately I haven't even been that interested in sex with her, she got me so upset this weekend I almost thru her out, she didn't want to leave bed and was kicking and fighting me, I just left to buy food before the market closed and was about to have a mental breakdown, instead I just yelled so hard in the car my throat was sore for a few hours. I got to the market, bought food, came back home, a bit more calm, she was at sleep, I took a big breath, tried to be really loving, her tantrum had passed, we got up, I cooked her dinner and that is about a routine.

I feel like I'm in prison, I'm so "trained" to do everything for her and it's not even enough, I need to guess when she's in the mood and start sex, otherwise I'm a ___ of a men, even though we could have had sex 3 times that day already, staying a day together without sex is a big nono. I no longer sleep, I need melatonin and a prescription drug to fall a sleep and I need to watch out when I'm with her because even though she know's I'm on drugs she won't care and will keep me awake all night if she feels like.

I need help, how can I love someone who abuses me physically and mentally, doesn't show a hint of empathy and won't let me have friends?

I became an expert in BPD past few months, I spend hours a day researching, I just can't stop loving her for some reason.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

What do you feel is in it for you now?

The sex is over the top because it is dysfunctional

Is it really love or is it a form of Stockholm syndrome

[badknees1]

I really know where you are coming from. I experience much of what you are describing. You need some space from this situation to think about your life at this point. Your are a person, unique, one of a kind with a right to be you and decide your course from this point on. We are not puppets of anyone, but we can do a good job of fooling ourselves that we are. That does not make us dumb just misguided. Take some time today, right now if you can to think about what you want in life today, this week, this year, and then in general. For this time just separate your thoughts from the relationship. Daydream. Find someone or a support group like a NAMI group in your area who can give you unconditional support. You see I think right now you need emotional first aid to stabilize. Decisions about this relationship, it seems toxic, can be made soon enough. Right now YOU are the main concern. Take a class, start exercising, go on a short trip, or do a small thing that renews life's enjoyment for you. Do something this week for you. You can do this! If you can, start NOW!

[jrharvey]

Start taking your life back. Little by little. Just start doing what you want. She will absolutely rage at you and push you away and give you the silent treatment. I had this problem too. Did you cheat on her? Does she have a reason to be invading your privacy like this? Does she let you do this to her? Im guessing probably not to all these questions. My GF felt the need to check my phone every day but would go nuts of I wanted to see hers. Im starting to say no more. Of course she throws a tantrum but gets over it. Actually I just wasted $120 on a hotel for a trip we were going on. She got mad at me and threw a tantrum the night before the trip all because some random girl sent me a Facebook friends request that I have never met before. I didn't even accept but she was so upset and said something very mean that I didn't appreciate. I told her I didnt like her saying things like that and she got so upset I dare question her that she completely threw a tantrum all night and threatened to leave the day we were going on this trip and not come back. We argued all night which was completely pointless but we ended up not going on the trip. What a waste of money. I made her pay me back for the hotel. She was so pissed off I said that she said something mean that she completely ruined our vacation and doesn't even care. No way I will ever beg though. I learned a lesson. Next time if she wants to go somewhere (this whole thing was her idea) then she is booking the hotel with her money.

[Hlinthewiking]

What do you feel is in it for you now?

The sex is over the top because it is dysfunctional

Is it really love or is it a form of Stockholm syndrome

I get to not feel alone and get to be with her, I know it's not much, but that's all the reasons I have, I know she doesn't bring much to the relationship, I pay all bills, I do all the cooking and driving... But I fear that if I leave her I these feelings I have for her will never go away and I have to be honest and say that there is a bit of possession, I can't bare the idea of her being with someone else.

Why is dysfunctional sex better? Honestly I'v seen this before but I can't understand.

The main reasons our sex is better though, is because of how I feel physically and emotionally about her body, I'v had partners before with much more experience and ability. When she mistreats me and I'm somewhat forced to have sex with her, it's terrible, I barely feel a thing and sometimes can't climax.

I definitely can see the Stockholm Syndrome reference, but I don't see her as one person, I see sometimes as 3-5 different people, I love the loving, playful and needy "childish" mode, she has a Dr. Freeze mode where she goes close to catatonic and batters me if I try to touch her and she has a lonely, please help me mode, among others, these I think are the main ones.

I really know where you are coming from... .Do something this week for you. You can do this! If you can, start NOW!

The problem is that I can't take time for myself without breaking up, I can and will do some things you recommended, but I still feel I must comply with her daily needs if I want to be with her, I can't do things on weekends or take a vacation. I already daydream, but then I need to get back to reality or if I don't she will tell me I'm different or will literally feel that I'm not bothered by her actions and will say I no longer care about her.

I don't know if my country has a group like this, I found a CODA group, which I'm not sure would help me but I was interested in going, but it's on Saturdays and that would be relationship suicide.

Start taking your life back. Little by little. ... .Next time if she wants to go somewhere (this whole thing was her idea) then she is booking the hotel with her money.

I never cheated on her or anyone in any previous relationship, in fact I usually even minimize contact with other women, I don't talk to female friends on social media and so forth, I'm very respectful in that matter. She does perceive the time we were single as that I cheated her, since I was chasing her for half that time but she didn't want anything with me and I was seeing other people.

You are so so far compared to me, that's wonderful you are being able to do that, I can't do it, we are much past that, she says I'm not worthy of her and admits she doesn't respect me, she puts all her misery as my fault and every week she almost breaks up with me, I think slow is really the word for it, but I don't know if it can be done anymore.

I had a situation similar to yours, I told my partner over a month in advance that we had a bat mitzvah of one of my family members and that I needed to go and I wanted her to go with me, after much struggle I convinced her to go with me, I rented a nice suit for me and got her some nice clothes. When we were dressing to go to the ceremony she suddenly laid on bed, got covered and said she wasn't going, when I got close she started going physical on me, I had to literally drag her off bed and that was about the last time I didn't take a no for an answer, I had talked to her so much of how it was important to me that she went. After she went to the ceremony and the party, she admitted she enjoyed it.

Thank you all for the support, honestly.

[Grey Kitty]

I need help, how can I love someone who abuses me physically and mentally, doesn't show a hint of empathy and won't let me have friends?

I became an expert in BPD past few months, I spend hours a day researching, I just can't stop loving her for some reason.

Instead of trying to stop loving her, or blaming yourself for loving her, how about trying to change things how you respond to her abusive behavior?

It was big for me when I realized that I didn't have to let my wife abuse me just because I still loved her.

The problem is that I can't take time for myself without breaking up, I can and will do some things you recommended, but I still feel I must comply with her daily needs if I want to be with her, I can't do things on weekends or take a vacation. I already daydream, but then I need to get back to reality or if I don't she will tell me I'm different or will literally feel that I'm not bothered by her actions and will say I no longer care about her.

I don't know if my country has a group like this, I found a CODA group, which I'm not sure would help me but I was interested in going, but it's on Saturdays and that would be relationship suicide.

Yes, she can and may break up with you or threaten to if you try this. Consider whether it is worth taking the risk.

If you don't take the risk, you are going to be stuck living a controlled life as you described. And sadly, that kind of abuse tends to escalate and get worse, instead of staying the same.

Only you know what you are willing to risk, and what you are willing to live with.

[Hlinthewiking]

Instead of trying to stop loving her, or blaming yourself for loving her, how about trying to change things how you respond to her abusive behavior?

It was big for me when I realized that I didn't have to let my wife abuse me just because I still loved her.

I'm all ears for suggestions, I tried in the past, but the more I stand up for myself and become more emotionally independent, she see's it and becomes bother by it for some reason, she sometimes looks at me and says "why are you so happy all the sudden?", sometimes she implies that I'm happy because I met someone else, then I try to make her feel safe, invite her to feel happy with me, but instead she just attacks me until I feel down again.

Yes, she can and may break up with you or threaten to if you try this. Consider whether it is worth taking the risk.

If you don't take the risk, you are going to be stuck living a controlled life as you described. And sadly, that kind of abuse tends to escalate and get worse, instead of staying the same.

Only you know what you are willing to risk, and what you are willing to live with.

I know :/, I'm definitely not willing to keep what we have now, I want to have a life again, it's not sustainable in any way, specially financial, she won't let me work, the way I'm working at the moment is not enough to support our lifestyle, I don't know for how long my investments will sustain this.

It's already gotten worse, it's unbearable, the sad thing is, even for her she says she can't stay in this relationship, even though I do my best, cook better then most good restaurants, provide all she needs and I always keep my calm around here and try to be understanding.

I guess I have no choice but to take more risks.

I'v been really thinking past few weeks that I really miss myself, I used to be able to be alone and entertain myself, do the things I like, make decisions for myself, I guess I'm just so far from a healthy relationship I lost touch with reality.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm all ears for suggestions, I tried in the past, but the more I stand up for myself and become more emotionally independent, she see's it and becomes bother by it for some reason, she sometimes looks at me and says "why are you so happy all the sudden?", sometimes she implies that I'm happy because I met someone else, then I try to make her feel safe, invite her to feel happy with me, but instead she just attacks me until I feel down again.

You can't be nice/friendly/kind/etc. enough to get her to stop attacking. That just doesn't work, as you seem to be noticing.

Have you read the lesson about Extinction Bursts and Intermittent Reinforcement?

It sounds like what you do is try to assert some independence, then she steps up the abuse, then you cave. That means you are going to get a LOT of pushback before she gets used to the idea. Be prepared for that.

I'd also suggest you pick a specific thing to take a stand on initially. Either a specific time/place/situation where you take some personal time away from her... .or perhaps a specific stand against other behavior, like verbal abuse.

Making your first stand against verbal abuse is an excellent choice, because you will probably get a barrage of it as soon as you try to take stand on anything else, so you might as well know that one and have set a precedent already.

[Hlinthewiking]

You can't be nice/friendly/kind/etc... (antifloodcut).Making your first stand against verbal abuse is an excellent choice, because you will probably get a barrage of it as soon as you try to take stand on anything else, so you might as well know that one and have set a precedent already.

I hadn't seen that before no, thanks, I just watched it. I'm scared to try, but I will, we may be way too past that, I have reinforced her bad attitude too much.

I have one question, I read here that I shouldn't invalidate her and that would only aggravate it. How do I handle something like what happened today with me? I came back from therapy, I got stuck in a traffic jam and took an extra 30min to get home, she got a bit angry about it and said I was out with sluts instead, that is beyond crazy, how should I respond?

[waverider]

The most important thing about setting and keeping boundaries is to set the precedent that you actually do have boundaries and are willing to follow through, and demonstrate it is not all bluff and empty demands. Understanding the difference between demands and boundaries is important

This makes the fist time, no matter how small the issue, difficult as it is groundbreaking.

Just a heads up, pwBPD have little stability so they rely on others to provide this. They will rock you and test you, and if you wobble they wont respect you. Hence you cant allow their instability to set your agenda. Ironically pwBPD rarely respect the type of person they try to turn you into. As a result appeasement never works, and resistance is essential. The trick is to learn low conflict resistance

[Grey Kitty]

Two bits of advice here seem contradictory:
1. Don't invalidate.
2. Enforce boundaries.

It turns out that enforcing a boundary is always at least a tiny bit invalidating. You just gotta let that happen.

When we say don't invalidate, what we really mean is don't say/do things that are unintentionally invalidating. It is a natural thing for all of us to do. You are attacked and accused of something you aren't doing. Your natural reaction is usually to JADE: To Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain why the accusation is invalid. That is just throwing extra invalidation at her, throwing gasoline onto the fire of mental illness.

I have one question, I read here that I shouldn't invalidate her and that would only aggravate it. How do I handle something like what happened today with me? I came back from therapy, I got stuck in a traffic jam and took an extra 30min to get home, she got a bit angry about it and said I was out with sluts instead, that is beyond crazy, how should I respond?

My response would be first, to say that I was stuck in traffic. (guessing you did that)

Second to say "I'm not going to discuss this with you." when she starts making accusations like that with no basis in reality.

Follow that with leaving the room if she wont' drop it.

And leaving the house if need be.

Nothing good will come of fighting accusations like that directly.

[BestVersionOfMe]

You can't be nice/friendly/kind/etc... (antifloodcut).Making your first stand against verbal abuse is an excellent choice, because you will probably get a barrage of it as soon as you try to take stand on anything else, so you might as well know that one and have set a precedent already.

I hadn't seen that before no, thanks, I just watched it. I'm scared to try, but I will, we may be way too past that, I have reinforced her bad attitude too much.

I have one question, I read here that I shouldn't invalidate her and that would only aggravate it. How do I handle something like what happened today with me? I came back from therapy, I got stuck in a traffic jam and took an extra 30min to get home, she got a bit angry about it and said I was out with sluts instead, that is beyond crazy, how should I respond?

It is worth noting that this subject will likely become somewhat of a non-issue to more she feels validated.  The fact that you said, "That is beyond crazy" shows me that you are really having a hard time looking at validation as the correct path?  Put yourself into her shoes, with her past, and her disorder.  Who is it crazy to?  To her it is not crazy at all, therefore validate her, besides you already know you aren't a cheater so her opinion about you is her issue, not yours. 

[waverider]

Often we take these things to heart because we feel invalidated. It is why we work on us, so that we understand why we need so much validation especially from someone whos quality, and sincerity, of validation is suspected at best.

Rebuilding our own sense of self is our best protection

[BestVersionOfMe]

Here is a great tale about what a true sense of self looks like:

"In a small town, in middle age Japan, was living an old samurai. This old
samurai was different from all the other ones in the kingdom because he won all
the fights and duels. Everyone respected him for his humble lifestyle and for his
wisdom.
One day a stranger came into town. Since everybody had known everybody, the
stranger was noticed immediately.
People were wondering what the stranger was up to. He soon revealed his
identity and intentions.
He was a young fearless samurai. He had heard that in this small town lived
an old invincible samurai. He came to defeat him and get his glory.
The young samurai soon found out where the old samurai's house was and
went there immediately to talk to him.
He found the old samurai meditating.
Without honoring the age and wisdom of the old samurai, he interrupted him
and flamboyantly he immediately announced his intentions.
By now a large crowd has gathered outside the house. People were curious how
the wise samurai is going to deal with this young insolent stranger. The
villagers tried to talk the wise samurai out of the duel.
After pondering for a few moments, he decided to take the challenge.
The two samurais met outside the village, followed by a large crowd. By now
peasants from the neighboring villages heard about what was going on here and
came to see the unusual scene with their own eyes.
Then, the fight began, ... .but in an unusual way. The old samurai sat down,
took the lotus position, and went into meditation. He was calm and composed.
The young samurai tried to engage him by throwing vulgarities and insults at
him. This scene went on for hours and hours, but the wise samurai kept himself
together and continued meditating.
Some spectators got so angry at the young insolent samurai that they tried to
defend the wise samurai's dignity. The wise samurai told them to stop since it
was his fight.
The scene went on and on for hours and hours, right into the evening of the
day, the young samurai not having been able to find a way to engage the wise
samurai into the fight.
Then, the thirsty, tired, and frustrated young samurai suddenly gave up trying,
picked up his bundles, clothes, and his sword, and left with his tail between his
legs.
The crowd happily cheered and was astonished at the same time. People
couldn't understand how the wise samurai was able to face the showering
vulgarities, insults, and deprecations for so many hours without moving a
finger.
"Master, how could you stand the countless insults for hours and hours without
standing up to defend your dignity?" – the crowd asked.
The wise samurai replied calmly:
"Because NONE of it was true."

[bunny4523]

Hi folks,

I'm here to ask for help and seek other people's experience on this matter because I'm afraid of completely loosing it, I feel that I'm close.

My girlfriend has BPD, we started to date January 2015, I broke up for reasons that will follow in September, but since I love her so deeply, I couln't stand it and we ended up getting back together in about January/Febuary this year (2016).

I'm in constant alert even when we are not together, she sleeps with me on Wednesday's and Friday thru Monday, I started doing that because taking more time apart was really really hard to maintain. When we are not together, I need to talk to her all the time, I mean really, if we don't talk for 2h, I better prepare for a night of hell and anguish. She never seeks me, unless it's because I took too long to talk to her first, then even if I reply right away, she will be mad, curse me, ignore me for hours, and that's only because I have to beg and apologize even though I know I did nothing wrong.

She denies having any problems, she puts it all on me and says I'm the only reason she feels alone or neglected. we still had the same problems before the first break up, but now she blames it all on the time we were apart and I went out with several other girls, she dug it up on my computer, she's always checking my computer and phone, sometimes when she's alone at my place she stays over 4 hours going thru my computer's history, then even has delusions about idiotic popups I come up with or female family members I check on Facebook.

She say's she doesn't like my friends even though she only saw 4 of them and once, she won't let me see them and she won't go on parties and gatherings with me, she won't let me sleep unless she's dead tired and feels I'v given her enough attention and love before our good night, she's almost always on a bad mood, I feel like I can't be myself and I need to watch what I say.

I'm a hard to please guy and I had the best sex with her, that's one of the reasons I went out with so many people during our break up, no one could satisfy me, initially I though the sex could be keeping me, but now I know it's not it, lately I haven't even been that interested in sex with her, she got me so upset this weekend I almost thru her out, she didn't want to leave bed and was kicking and fighting me, I just left to buy food before the market closed and was about to have a mental breakdown, instead I just yelled so hard in the car my throat was sore for a few hours. I got to the market, bought food, came back home, a bit more calm, she was at sleep, I took a big breath, tried to be really loving, her tantrum had passed, we got up, I cooked her dinner and that is about a routine.

I feel like I'm in prison, I'm so "trained" to do everything for her and it's not even enough, I need to guess when she's in the mood and start sex, otherwise I'm a ___ of a men, even though we could have had sex 3 times that day already, staying a day together without sex is a big nono. I no longer sleep, I need melatonin and a prescription drug to fall a sleep and I need to watch out when I'm with her because even though she know's I'm on drugs she won't care and will keep me awake all night if she feels like.

I need help, how can I love someone who abuses me physically and mentally, doesn't show a hint of empathy and won't let me have friends?

I became an expert in BPD past few months, I spend hours a day researching, I just can't stop loving her for some reason.

can you just re-read your post and count the pros and cons?  What do you love exactly?

[FallBack!Monster]

The most important thing about setting and keeping boundaries is to set the precedent that you actually do have boundaries and are willing to follow through, and demonstrate it is not all bluff and empty demands. Understanding the difference between demands and boundaries is important

This makes the fist time, no matter how small the issue, difficult as it is groundbreaking.

Just a heads up, pwBPD have little stability so they rely on others to provide this. They will rock you and test you, and if you wobble they wont respect you. Hence you cant allow their instability to set your agenda. Ironically pwBPD rarely respect the type of person they try to turn you into. As a result appeasement never works, and resistance is essential. The trick is to learn low conflict resistance

This is the most insightful and validating advise I have read here in months.  As you can see, no one here told you to run away and get healthy.  As if the reason you have fallen into feelings is because you yourself are not healthy.

good stuff.

[Hlinthewiking]

Thanks again for all the great advice and support.

I was away from the forums for the weekend/monday since I was with her. I'm trying Grey Kitty's advice (Extinction Bursts), but it's even harder then I anticipated, I'm started to feel so much remorse... .

First time I tried was last Thursday, she threw a tantrum at me because I left the gym and decided to go check out a sale at a store next to the gym (my gym is inside a large mall), I talked to her when I left the gym and everything was fine, we were laughing and all, we stopped talking, I got into the store and tried a couple clothes, she sent me a message and I didn't see it for 10-15min, then when I saw it, I responded right away and said what I was doing and that I was going home.

She got out of control, started cursing at me, I tried keeping my cool and just observed it without connecting much to it, maybe by what I just saw here now I might have invalidated her a bit, I said that I didn't do anything wrong and she had no right to treat me that way and I wasn't going to accept it. She imposed as she was going to ignore me after some more insults and I just said I was going to drive and couldn't talk.

When I got home she was still ignoring me for about an hour, since I didn't come running and begging to her like I usually do she came to me first, but she was totally lost, she was literally in tears, I felt so bad, I still tried to maintain my ground, I said I loved her very much and that I didn't do anything bad towards her neither cheated her in any way, I was just at a store for a few minutes, she was out of balance the whole night, but she restrained herself later on and went to sleep telling me I know how she's like as to tell me that she didn't have the ability to treat me in a loving matter at this moment but told me good night.

I was so impressed by it, I was so proud, at the same time still in a bit of shock of how badly I saw she felt for so little.

At the weekend I had another misfortune which she battered me maybe worse then ever, which is something that's starting to concern me, she threatened me before and has said not long ago she would stab me and things like that, along battering me she smashed her phone in me this weekend with so much strength she knocked a tile of the roof when she accidentally raised her arm to toss it at me, I didn't get injured but I was shocked to the level of impulsivity she displayed, I know how much she loves that phone, it was very fortunate that she didn't break it.

She's ignoring me right now for not calling her today when she got home from college, we we talking normally on social media then she flipped all the sudden.

I'm worrying this "Extinction Burst" tactic may endanger my life, she made so many cold and dark threats to me recently along the more aggressive physical attacks, any advice? The way she's suffering and breaking down from it also disturbing me, I feel so bad when she's sad... .Is it normal?

[Hlinthewiking]

can you just re-read your post and count the pros and cons?  What do you love exactly?

I can't explain it fully, simply put, I have deep feelings towards her, I find her very sexy and attractive, maybe even close to my ideal body, I like somethings about her, the way she acts (sometimes of course, when she's stable), the way she smiles, no one else has satisfied me sexually better then her.
I have reasons, I'm not a masochist, maybe I can't weight it out enough, but I tried breaking up before, and even after 4 months apart and after going out with 20-25 women, it was a daily struggle to not breakdown during the day, specially when I was alone or when another girl did something that reminded me of her.

This is the most insightful and validating advise I have read here in months.  As you can see, no one here told you to run away and get healthy.  As if the reason you have fallen into feelings is because you yourself are not healthy.

good stuff.

Very true and I can't emphasize enough how much you all have helped me so far, I'm very grateful.

[waverider]

I can't explain it fully, simply put, I have deep feelings towards her, I find her very sexy and attractive, maybe even close to my ideal body, I like somethings about her, the way she acts (sometimes of course, when she's stable), the way she smiles, no one else has satisfied me sexually better then her.

Is she aware of this? Maybe she is aware this is her draw card, and always has been. This could bring with it a mixture of "is that all I am worth?" along with an ability to use it to get what she wants

... even after 4 months apart and after going out with 20-25 women,

Is she aware of this too? This would trigger insecurity in any partner, male or female, BPD or not.

[Jessica84]

I like the samarai story... .except I don't think I could listen to hours of insults. I would've walked away. But I like the point.  

Hlintheviking - have you read up on boundaries? Extinction bursts can be brutal. But they only work with consistent boundaries. Eventually the behaviors can die down once the pwBPD no longer gets the reaction they want. I used to be a dancing monkey for my BPDbf. He pushed this button, and I danced this way. He pushed that button, and I danced that way. I finally took the remote control away from him and started protecting my buttons (those things that trigger us to react/overreact to their crazy behavior). He weakened my boundaries... .but I allowed it. I'm responsible for that, and that was my blessing because I could change that. And slowly, that changed him. That wasn't my goal. My main goal was to protect me. But it benefitted him and our relationship. He stopped with the ridiculous button-pushing because it no longer worked. And in some way, he seemed almost glad it didn't. It may not feel like it at first, but setting boundaries is the most loving thing you can do for yourself and for her. She doesn't want to feel sad and hysterical like this all the time. You don't want to be controlled and accused of nonsense. None of it is healthy. She may not have the power to change, but you do. And that's the good news. Puts you back in the driver seat, where you belong. It's your life!

[Jessica84]

... even after 4 months apart and after going out with 20-25 women,

Is she aware of this too? This would trigger insecurity in any partner, male or female, BPD or not.

Uh yeah... .I was thinking this myself. Even if you were on a break and it was absolutely allowed, it could still FEEL like cheating to her. I'd be pretty hurt by it.

[waverider]

He weakened my boundaries... .but I allowed it. I'm responsible for that, and that was my blessing because I could change that. And slowly, that changed him. That wasn't my goal. My main goal was to protect me. But it benefitted him and our relationship. He stopped with the ridiculous button-pushing because it no longer worked. And in some way, he seemed almost glad it didn't. It may not feel like it at first, but setting boundaries is the most loving thing you can do for yourself and for her. She doesn't want to feel sad and hysterical like this all the time.

Boundaries are the foundation stones on which to build structure. Structure creates stability and identity. Stability and identity is safety and belonging. This is the security and validation we all need. It is what makes us worth something

[Hlinthewiking]

... even after 4 months apart and after going out with 20-25 women,

Is she aware of this too? This would trigger insecurity in any partner, male or female, BPD or not.

Uh yeah... .I was thinking this myself. Even if you were on a break and it was absolutely allowed, it could still FEEL like cheating to her. I'd be pretty hurt by it.

Yes she is, unfortunately, she got into my computer a couple times and found some pictures and talks inside social media, she brings it up constantly and call them all whores, until a month or so ago she blamed all our conflicts on this, but nothing changed, there was always a motive even before our previous breakup.

I like the samarai story... .except I don't think I could listen to hours of insults. I would've walked away. But I like the point.  ... .

I like it too, the only problem is that the challenging samurai didn't stay, he left, I can take hours of insults, trust me, I'v been thru worse.

I'v failed the "Extinction Burst", she "broke up" with me just now and I went back into begging mode. She started to insult me today because she had a bad day and talking to her via text was not enough and when I didn't call her (with no idea she wanted me to in the first place or without her calling me), I tried to not take it personally but told her I wouldn't accept her to treat me that way and that she should respect me, she insulted me some more and went on ignore mode, I left her alone and 3-4h then she came back saying that we should split up... .

I feel so weak, I wondered the whole day about how it would be not to look into her face again, I'm tired of taking these half measures, I know I'm not solving anything... .

Maybe I'm too far to demand boundaries, knowing her she just would walk away and say I'm the problem, thinking better I guess in the beginning it would have been worse maybe. She's got a history like this, if someone doesn't comply with her expectations she just walks away.

[waverider]

I tried to not take it personally but told her I wouldn't accept her to treat me that way and that she should respect me, she insulted me some more and went on ignore mode, I left her alone and 3-4h then she came back saying that we should split up... .

Problem is this is still a demand not a boundary. She called your bluff, then got in first before to avoid you doing anything

Maybe I'm too far to demand boundaries, knowing her she just would walk away and say I'm the problem, thinking better I guess in the beginning it would have been worse maybe. She's got a history like this, if someone doesn't comply with her expectations she just walks away.

That is her problem and her choice, and truth is often you need to be willing to end it yourself as you baseline boundary enforcement. You cant regain yourself respect if ultimately you are not willing to put self care foremost... .bottom line " I wont be in relationship that is effectively abusive".

The threat, or fear, of being "dumped" can be enough for a pwBPD to get in first. So you can't use it as a threat. Though you can be willing to enact it if all else fails.

[Hlinthewiking]

Problem is this is still a demand not a boundary. She called your bluff, then got in first before to avoid you doing anything

That is her problem and her choice, and truth is often you need to be willing to end it yourself as you baseline boundary enforcement. You cant regain yourself respect if ultimately you are not willing to put self care foremost... .bottom line " I wont be in relationship that is effectively abusive".

The threat, or fear, of being "dumped" can be enough for a pwBPD to get in first. So you can't use it as a threat. Though you can be willing to enact it if all else fails.

 Was there a better way of putting what I said to her? I just wanted to make sure she knew what action I didn't like and wouldn't support.

 What made it be a demand instead of a boundary? Simply the fact I didn't come thru with it?

 If I didn't say anything to her and simply acted as if I wouldn't participate in that behavior, I don't think she would even realize why I took that action since in her mind what she's doing is perfectly fine and she has the right to insult me as much as she wants, her words.

[Jessica84]

To break it down: You told her you will not tolerate her disrespect or listen to her insults. You then tolerated her disrespect and listened to her insults. This is not a boundary. You hoped by telling her to stop, she would stop. Only natural, but this is a demand. Trouble is pwBPD do what they do because it's all they know. When she gets abusive you have to be prepared to enforce a boundary.  Figure out what that looks like to you.

Boundary: If she abuses me (verbally/physically), I will ________ (leave the room, hang up, take a walk, not respond to texts). Whatever you do, you will not engage in this behavior. Then follow through, consistently.

Let her cry, have a fit, or go crazy all by herself. Let her figure out how to cope with your action. Your boundary is to protect you. She doesn't even have to be told what that boundary is. You simply need to enforce it. She will see it, and over time, believe that you mean it, and start to respect it. This can slow the behavior down over time (sometimes extinguish it), but it takes time, patience and a willingness to follow thru every time to protect yourself.

[Jessica84]

I wanted to add... .it doesn't matter whether she believes she has done anything wrong or thinks she has a "right" to treat you however she wants. If YOU believe its wrong, then it is. I was in the same boat. I told my bf to stop all the time. He didn't, of course. He wasn't doing anything wrong, in his mind. Everything was my fault and I deserved what I got. So I stayed and took it. Either I listened to his verbal assaults, or he threatened to leave me. This was constant. I was trapped by fear of losing him and suffering from all the abuse.

Then I read the lessons here about boundaries and extinction bursts. At first I wanted him to understand WHY I hung up on him when he started cursing me. Seemed a no-brainer, but he wasn't getting it. I was the bad guy. So I stopped explaining and kept enforcing my boundary because I didn't like being talked to that way. Ending the call at least meant not having to hear it. I took the risk that he may never speak to me again. But he always calmed down... .eventually. I had to hang up on him many times, for weeks! Soon it got to where I could say "ok, I'm about to hang up... " and he would catch himself. He had the final "extinction burst" when he got so ugly I told him I was going to block his calls, and did. I unblocked him the next day after he emailed me in a panic with a sincere apology. Now, he NEVER curses me over the phone and I don't engage in text wars. This is how extinction bursts work. It took months of this. And if I slipped up and engaged, it set me back for weeks. He didn't like my boundary - he was losing his control of me - but I had to stick to it. It got a whole lot worse before it got better. So don't think you've "failed" if it didn't work the first time. It can take awhile. Be patient.

[Hlinthewiking]

I wanted to add... .it doesn't matter whether she believes she has done anything wrong or thinks she has a "right" to treat you however she wants. If YOU believe its wrong, then it is. I was in the same boat. I told my bf to stop all the time. He didn't, of course. He wasn't doing anything wrong, in his mind. Everything was my fault and I deserved what I got. So I stayed and took it. Either I listened to his verbal assaults, or he threatened to leave me. This was constant. I was trapped by fear of losing him and suffering from all the abuse.

Then I read the lessons here about boundaries and extinction bursts. At first I wanted him to understand WHY I hung up on him when he started cursing me. Seemed a no-brainer, but he wasn't getting it. I was the bad guy. So I stopped explaining and kept enforcing my boundary because I didn't like being talked to that way. Ending the call at least meant not having to hear it. I took the risk that he may never speak to me again. But he always calmed down... .eventually. I had to hang up on him many times, for weeks! Soon it got to where I could say "ok, I'm about to hang up... " and he would catch himself. He had the final "extinction burst" when he got so ugly I told him I was going to block his calls, and did. I unblocked him the next day after he emailed me in a panic with a sincere apology. Now, he NEVER curses me over the phone and I don't engage in text wars. This is how extinction bursts work. It took months of this. And if I slipped up and engaged, it set me back for weeks. He didn't like my boundary - he was losing his control of me - but I had to stick to it. It got a whole lot worse before it got better. So don't think you've "failed" if it didn't work the first time. It can take awhile. Be patient.

Thanks, this made me feel a bit better. I guess I'm scared, I feel so bad when I defend myself, I can't fall a sleep, other then the fear of loosing her, I keep thinking how she must feel, I'm constantly getting no sleep because most our arguments are at night and when she goes to sleep giving me the silent treatment or telling me she want's to break up with me, I can't fall a sleep or relax at all even with sleeping pills

[waverider]

Boundaries are primarily about us, not anyone else. ie You are acting first to stop your exposure to a situation, NOT primarily tring to get her to stop, that is her choice and you cant force it.

However as a consequence of your non engagement hopefully others will desist if they want to continue interacting with you.

This approach, keeping it about yourself and what YOU are going to do about it makes it easier to justify and stand by. pwBPD are by nature highly defensive so it is imperative to avoid you telling them what to do, they can work that out they are not dumb.

[Jessica84]

I guess I'm scared, I feel so bad when I defend myself, I can't fall a sleep, other then the fear of loosing her, I keep thinking how she must feel, I'm constantly getting no sleep because most our arguments are at night and when she goes to sleep giving me the silent treatment or telling me she want's to break up with me, I can't fall a sleep or relax at all even with sleeping pills

Boundaries protect our values. You value sleep. Your mind and body depend on it. How will you protect it?

What do you think you can you do prevent these late night arguments? Is there something she complains about regularly? Try SET and validating how she feels. That may help calm things down enough so you can sleep.

If that doesn't work, what can you do as a boundary to get some sleep? Preferably BEFORE she has a chance to say things that will keep you up all night worrying. Maybe sleep on the couch, another room, friend's house?

Try validation first. If things heat up anyway, set a boundary.

[waverider]

Sleep depravation will prevent you doing anything sensible

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

Demand or Rule vs. Boundary Enforcement:

Demand: Don't do "X".

Boundary Enforcement: If you do "X" I will do "Y" to protect myself from the consequences of "X".

The difference is critical: Note that when you tell her not to do something (or to do something), she has the choice and the power. While you have the power to enforce the boundary all yourself, no matter what she thinks/wants/chooses.

... .and if you can't sleep and panic and give in to whatever she demands in response to her threat to break up with her... .well... .she knows she can use that to control you, and she will. And that is why you are here.

Yes, it will be heartbreaking if she leaves. But ultimately, she will do so if she chooses, and you cannot stop it.

One thing I took to saying was something along the lines of "I love you, I don't want you to leave, but I cannot and will not force you to stay if you want to go. It is your choice."

[Hlinthewiking]

Well, I don't even know what to say after this weekend.

Friday at 4:30PM she asked me what time I'd pick her up, I said 7:30PM, which is around the same time I usually pick her up when she's at home. She thought it was late for some reason and started to get angry at me, I tried not to aggravate it but at the same time I was a bit fed up with fighting for everything, so I ended up not bothering much by it and letting her vent.

Closer to 6:30PM I sent her a message telling her I was on the way to pick her up (since she was upset, I tried to go as early as I could), she replied saying that she wasn't at home and that I should forget about her, I got confused, since I didn't think she got that mad and I was going sooner. I tried calling her, she didn't pick up on purpose, in fact, I called her 47-50 times in the next few hours and she kept ignoring me, meanwhile, midway around the calls I was forced to come back home, I had no idea where she was and since she lives around 15 miles from me, I couldn't wait for her to decide to answer me back or not, I already did wait an hour.
Around 10:30PM she decided to reply my texts, still saying to leave her alone or somewhat saying that we were over, at that time I wasn't feeling well at all, I was feeling like if things didn't improve soon, I wouldn't be able to remain stable.

I was right, about an hour later I had convinced her we would still see each other (which was a terrible idea and not at all what I wanted, since it was so late, but knowing on my state and the fact the should would only get worse if I didn't go, I did), I started to feel weird driving there, I needed to vent, the first thing was a scream from the bottom of my lungs which helped a bit, but I still wasn't well, I experience a lot of emotions, specially anger and sadness, I cried most the way. I can't say I'm proud but I did some reckless driving on the way there. Once I did, she got in the car and she was acting like nothing happened, I didn't know how to feel about that, I guess I had some sort of a mental collapse, I started to laugh, gag and cry at the same time, which probably looked very scary to her, it must probably have been the scariest joker act, that never happened to me before, it scared not just me but her.

Once we got to my place and when I though the worse had passed, she suddenly implied to me that a girl that had talked to me in the past when I was single was trying to talk to me, I initially though she was joking it on me, like she does some times, to make me feel bad about the past, then I checked the screen on my phone and there were no notifications, again I came to her and said, there's nothing there, she implied I should look at my messages, I did, and there was a message from that girl just saying "hi", I then said, I don't know what it is, she's coming to me, I don't talk to her in several months, my girlfriend got increasingly mad, she demanded I blocked her on every social media I got, I said I wouldn't do it, she had only said hi and I not only hadn't even had a thing with her in the past but she had done nothing wrong. My girlfriend then punched me in the face, I was not expecting it, this time she hit me hard, I was wearing my glasses, she bent my titanium thick glasses and hit me on my temporal bone, it was swollen pretty quick and was swollen and hurting the whole weekend. I took a minute to evaluate what just had happened, I took a deep breath and though about how I felt like, I actually felt sorry for her and almost shed a tear, I considered ending right now and driving her back home, but instead I told her that it would be the last time she touched me, the next time we would be over for good, I stood a far for a while to keep myself calm and to think, she was checking at her phone but I could see even she got scared of what she had done. After a while she felt bad, said she was sorry.

The whole weekend was a mess thanks to a girl just saying hi to me, on Saturday it was her time to have a breakdown when the girl tried talking to me again, since I didn't reply the first time, this time my girlfriend got bad, she cried her eyes out, got almost catatonic and was shaking a lot, I got really scared, I kept her close, wrapped my arms around her and tried to comfort her, I even told her I would block that girl and I meant it, but it didn't help, after a while I was able to calm her down and she got so stable we were able to have a good talk about our relationship and I took advantage too to talk a bit about BPD and how I knew what else was bothering her (other then me apparently), which is her father, he abandoned her when she was young and pretty much swapped families, re-married and forgot about her. I felt so much better because I felt like she understood she had a problem and I made her promise me that when she decided to see a shrink she would mention to him that I though she had BPD even if she didn't think she did.

I'm even more lost then before... .

[ArleighBurke]

You are playing her game. Not her intentional game, but you are caught up in her whirlwind.

STOP IT.

You need to be solid. Emotionally stable. If you had arranged to meetup at 6:30pm, and she texted she didn't want to, sure try to ask why. If she stops talking, won't answer etc then just text "I was looking forward to tonight, but if you're not up for it that's ok. Call me when you want to chat about it". Then NOTHING. Go and do your own thing. If she contacts you an hour later changin her mind - tell her you're really sorry but you're now doing X without her. Not in a punishment way - but in a "you don't control my life" way.

Hour long conversations trying to convince her to stay: NO! If she says she wants to break up, let her say that. There's a 95% chance that she's just mouthing off to try to get you to play. She PROBABLY doesn't mean it. Be emotionally secure enough to allow her to feel that. When you learn validation you will be able to talk about WHY she feels that WITHOUT actaully buying into it.

If she gets overwhelmed because you had a stranger say hi to you - that is HER problem. You need to learn to VALIDATE, but don't rescue her.

You have much work to do! Pretend she's a little 7yr old spoilt girl trying to get your attention. You can play along, but don't get sucked in. You are the adult.

[waverider]

You want her respect, pwBPD struggle to respect others. Would you respect someone who reacted they way you have been... probably not, a pwBPD certainly wont. This simply adds to her insecurity and cycle escalates

"Yes I will do this", and "no I wont do" that is a black and white language that pwBPD understand, even if they initially react badly to it. This black and white approach to interacting is something you need to take on board. ie making decisions for better or for worse, the important thing is they are decisons.

[Hlinthewiking]

Those are great advice and I'm truly trying, in fact I did yesterday... .

She left me.

I'm devastated, I don't know what to do.

One of our problems is that she didn't want to see my friends and didn't want me to see them when we usually see each other, so this week I tried to schedule on Thrusday, which is a day we wouldn't see each other, we did on Wednesday and would the weekend.

She already had started the day badly, bad mood, she's also on PMS, when I said I was going to see my friends after our talk on Saturday, she decided to or lied to me about her seeing her friends this Saturday, which I didn't oppose but thought she did to mess with me and not because she wanted to, also it is "our day", we would complete a year and a half together, which I know it's a big deal to her, she likes to celebrate every single month. She climbed up and kept getting worse everyday, she didn't eat anything until dinner at around 7PM even though she was hungry and had nothing to eat in 20h or so, then she started to say how she had promised that she would change and make and effort on our talk on Saturday but that I was not making any effort, basically because I got 20-30min late to pick her up in class on Wednesday, which I was very sorry for and apologized, I again apologized, recognized it was important to her and that it was a misstep, she kept on going, said it wasn't just it and she wanted to break up.

I tried to talk to her, calmly, said how much she meant to me and that I didn't want to break up but I had no power if she truly did. I was already late to meet with my friends from our argument, and she started to imply that if our relationship was important to me I should go to her place with is 15 miles away to beg her not to break up with me, I again said how much she was important to me and specially because of our conversation on Saturday, that was something I had to do and that I begged her not to do this, she started to say she was deleting pictures of us on social media, then she threatened to change her Facebook status, I again said I didn't want this and begged her not to.

After she realized I wasn't going to her house and to beg her and humiliate myself, she changed our Facebook status and that was the last time we spoke, that was 15h ago.

I'm devastated, in shock, having panic attacks, involuntarily and constantly cringing my teeth, I don't know what to do. Is it wrong to reach out to her? I just want to hug her really hard, please help.

[Grey Kitty]

You enforced a boundary--that you get to have your life with your friends, instead of dumping them whenever she applies pressure to you not to be with them. (Which by pure coincidence happens to be every time you try to see your friends!)

She responded with escalation to the point of breaking up with you on social media.

Has she done this to you before? Or otherwise threatened to break up with you?

My take... .you did the right thing, even though it hurt. Being isolated from / shut out from your friends like that is no way to live, and a person who insists on doing that is nobody you should live with.

That said... .she may well change her mind and spin on a dime and come back to you. In an hour, a day, a week, or a month.

Should you reach out? I dunno, but I'll tell you what I don't think you should do:

I don't think you should reach out and apologize for seeing your friends in the face of her threats / distress.

[Hlinthewiking]

Thanks Grey Kitty.

She has never done that before because I never allowed it to get to that point, she frequently threatens with breaking up with me for the most ridiculous things but she never did, I always run to rescue first.

That's why I fear she won't reach out, she's so used to me getting on my knees all the time, I think she will feel that I don't value her/our relationship anymore if I don't beg, and that's kinda what she said when I didn't want to go run to "her rescue" yesterday.

[waverider]

All these behaviors she is displaying she has a need to pressure someone, this is what validates her, having power over someone. If she breaks up with you then she has power over no one as long as you dont start begging again, which is what she expects.

If you dont, how do you think her needs will be met?

Regaining yourself is more important than regaining someone else. This is what you should prioritize now.

Give her space to reach out, her back is to the wall as much as yours. If you want change you have to be prepared to give up the old deal, if she cant come at a new deal then you are better without. Dont forget why you came here in the first place

[FallBack!Monster]

Without insulting anyone, is it soo soo bad for someone here to follow their heart. I don't know how to ask this w/o feeling like someone is going to take it wrong.  But is it soo soo bad to have a mind of your own?

What if the person doesn't want to stay away and risk detachment.  What if they are here just venting and don't really want to let go? Show we be telling people how to react to their personal situation. Or should we just be sharing ideas on how to handle it?

Even I'm guilty of doing it.  Like telling someone how not to be manipulated, and at the same telling them that the only way to regain their power is to over "power" the BPD ways, by being manipulative. 

[FallBack!Monster]

I'm very happy for this site and some of the advise that is being shared here.  But if I still wanted to be with my girl I wouldn't listen to anyone telling me how to manipulate the situation.  That's like me being manipulated into doing something, that my heart doesn't want to do, by people who again, are trying to help, but are manipulating me into doing things their way. Also, people that I have never met in person.  I hope I made myself clear without anyone feeling insulted.

I just think we need to give different ways for the victim(s) if you will, to see the situation.  And supporting them in finding a way out.  Not telling them what to do and what not to do.  Also, how weak they're being if they do what pleases them.

[Hlinthewiking]

Back2Me16

I asked for help, any advice that can be given to me is appreciated, I have the power to follow it or not.

Venting is what the name states, it doesn't solve problems, it alleviates temporarily.

Don't feel bad for giving advice, it's advice, not demands.   

[Grey Kitty]

The old game... .she demands, you capitulate.

And it isn't enough, and she demands a bit more next time. Until you are a shell of your former self. You know where this one goes, and you sounded at the beginning of this topic like you had gone as far that way as you could stand.

The new game... .she demands, you stand firm. Now it is her move:

If she leaves, she's decided that she would rather dump you than let you have friends. You will be devastated, but it isn't easy on her either... .and I'm pretty sure it is better for you than the old one.

If she decides that she's willing to come back, trust you, and let you have friends, you really win. Make it easy for her to do so. There is a good chance she will try to pretend that much of this last fight never happened... .if she's not wanting to dive back into it, no need to stop her from doing exactly that, at least for now.

Have you heard anything from her since? (Even pushing you away/blocking you further)

[Jessica84]

Manipulation is about controlling others, or punishing or teaching our partners a lesson.

This is futile... .and not a good long-term solution anyway.

Real change can come over time with consistent validation and boundaries. pwBPD crave constant validation, often seeking it in unhealthy ways. We unknowingly give them what they seek as a reward for their bad behavior. This makes us start behaving in unhealthy ways and doing things we normally wouldn't.

When we use boundaries to protect ourselves from their threats/demands/or other unhealthy behaviors, they may not like it -- especially if they've used it successfully to get their needs met. At that point they have the choice to walk away and find someone else to be unhealthy with, or adapt to our healthier ways. It's a risk -- and it's scary to change -- but things CAN improve.

[waverider]

Without insulting anyone, is it soo soo bad for someone here to follow their heart. I don't know how to ask this w/o feeling like someone is going to take it wrong.  But is it soo soo bad to have a mind of your own?

To have a healthy life you need to make healthy decisions. These come from developing a wise mind. The wise mind is a combination of the the emotional mind and the executive mind. When this balance shifts allowing one side or the other dominate it creates unhealthy dysfunction.

To travel this road takes judicious use of both accelerator and the brake to stay on the road.

BPD adds more twists and bends to the road so we have to be more attentive.

[waverider]

Once you can clearly understand and apply boundaries in such a way that they are clearly about us, and not someone else, it takes away the perception of control and manipulation.

This is not as easy as it seems, but is a major factor in whether you can uphold one or not. Once this aspect can be questioned and you start to doubt it, you start shifting from the moral high ground.

eg
" I will not listen to such things"
vs
"You cannot say such things"

[Hlinthewiking]

Have you heard anything from her since? (Even pushing you away/blocking you further)

She contacted me today at around 1-2AM, she clearly misses me but she wants to be sure that I know that turning my back on her that day was wrong and I not only should feel bad, admit it and apologize but likely should be punished for it (this last one is a deduction of mine), I said I needed to sleep and we could talk during the day but she always like to do things right now and she ignored me and I didn't want to ignore her now, so we argued until 5AM.

I just kept on saying that I did what I did because I felt it was right and for the sake of our relationship and that I would always be there for her, but on that day she was "putting a knife to the throat and saying she was going to kill herself, and me saying that I didn't want it and that she shouldn't do it wasn't enough, I should have ran over there and pulled the knife out of her hands" (metaphor), that basically I was tired to carry our relationship alone, that I wanted to be with her, but she also needed to want it and cherish it too.

She instead got angry and said I didn't understand her and that I could have seen my friends if things were ok, but they weren't because of me getting late on Wednesday like I stated earlier. I asked why she only got mad on Thursday if Wednesday I apologized for it and our night was very good together, she said she didn't want to have an ass face when she was at my place, so she basically held it in to fight me the next day.

Any advice? Despite she making me say it was all my fault as always I have a glimpse of hope that after what she told me and our talks things may improve, but maybe it's just manipulation and I have a hard time feeling like she will take account of her own actions towards me.

To have a healthy life you need to make healthy decisions. These come from developing a wise mind. The wise mind is a combination of the the emotional mind and the executive mind. When this balance shifts allowing one side or the other dominate it creates unhealthy dysfunction.

To travel this road takes judicious use of both accelerator and the brake to stay on the road.

BPD adds more twists and bends to the road so we have to be more attentive.

Loved this. At this moment my rational mind says: "she will never change or change enough to be good to you or to truly care for you, move on". My emotional mind says: "The top of this rollercoaster is as high as you will get, you will never feel like this ever again and it will leave a hole inside you that no one can fill"

[Jessica84]

I am so sorry you are going through all this turmoil. 

Sounds like she is bullying you and expecting you to read her mind which changes so rapidly you can hardly keep up. Ugh, I haven't endured any physical abuse, but I remember hearing the same long rants of how horrible I was. And they were horrible.

People will treat us how we let them. This is why boundaries are so important. You started with a good boundary: "I need to sleep. Let's talk during the day"... .but then talked all night. I used to do the same. Jumping to take his calls or respond to texts after an argument (no matter what time or even if I almost wrecked my car trying to reply by text!) for fear of the repercussions if I didn't -- like a breakup, silent treatment, raging anger, furious texts, publicly badmouthing me... .ugh

He would feel soothed for a moment, but I usually felt sick, dizzy and confused after, like what just happened? And it kept happening... .again... and again... until I tried something different, like hanging up or ignoring his calls/texts. I got to where I didn't want to hear it anymore. I feared all the bad stuff he could do, but did it anyway. After he dumped me or I got the silent treatment a few times, I always wished I hadn't. But he kept coming back... .and I kept hanging up whenever he got that way. I figured silence was better than abuse... .

Point is, try not to let your fears of how she will react or what she will do overcome you. You cannot control what she does. She may break up, but she also may come back. This is not up to you. Focus on you -- what you need, what you want. Because not enforcing boundaries only serves THEIR immediate needs -- like hers was to unload/accuse/blame you for everything until you apologized--- right then, not later when it was more convenient for you. Think of YOUR needs, like sleeping and not listening to all that abuse. Like I said, things can change, but it starts with US. Believe in yourself, take care of YOU   

[Hlinthewiking]

Jessica84 Thank you for such kind words and support  .

Oh I became an expert in texting and driving, I also learned how to drive without my hands using my knees ><.

I noticed a couple things happened since the break up, one thing is that I really need to keep myself busy and staying at home is hard, the other thing is that I'm dissociating less and I'm being much more efficient in doing errands. When I was with her I had a hard time relaxing and doing simple things as doing dishes and keeping the house clean. My teeth and my gastrointestinal system is taking a beating though.

I'm contemplating on not coming back and I started to wonder if I could see other people, there are some very nice women who want to see me and I feel bad just for considering it, part of me thinks it's best for me to learn to live by myself for a while but I'v always been codependent in my relationships and that part of me is telling it would help to see someone healthy to have a talk, I feel ashamed for even writing this... .But could I have some feedback on it?

[Woods77]

It might be worth you reading about co-dependency and seeing if you have that, you'll know straight away. I've got it and my partner has awful BPD.

www.lifecounsel.org/pub_li_overcomingCodependency.html

www.m.dummies.com/how-to/content/codependency-for-dummies-cheat-sheet.html

[Hlinthewiking]

Woods77

Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm co-dependent, I have discussed this with my therapist and enforced that I was starting to become aware of it and that it was probably what was getting in the way of other problems in my life outside of my romantic relationship.

I'v always had problems living by myself and I know I function better and less anxious when I'm with someone. I dissociate a lot and have problems with depression.

I know that I would fit in the Cluster C and I have tried to self diagnose before without much success since Codependency was not included in the DSM, which I just became aware of. I was looking at other Cluster C PDs and I knew I didn't fit in one despite having characteristics of most of them.

My therapist agrees on Cluster C and didn't appear to be much concerned by it, he stated it is the easiest cluster to treat and after much therapy, now he pretty much says every session that I must leave this relationship for he is worried that I may be in danger (Death, arrest, since she has threatened to lie to get me in jail before, and undesired pregnancy) and that it was the best thing for me to get out of this as soon as possible and that treating my Codependency symptoms takes time and may not be the best for me to stay in this relationship for that long.

The reason I wanted to treat this before deciding to leave is mainly because I'm not sure how long I can stay alone and seek out another partner and start my over caring/pleasing, to the point where in most relationships I constantly ask my partner whether their happy and if there is something they would like me to do for them. This is not my first abusive relationship and I would like it to be the last.

I read those links and I fit them almost scary-like, over 90% of what's stated can be true to me.