Loosing myself: indecisive

[waverider]

Sleep depravation will prevent you doing anything sensible

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

Demand or Rule vs. Boundary Enforcement:

Demand: Don't do "X".

Boundary Enforcement: If you do "X" I will do "Y" to protect myself from the consequences of "X".

The difference is critical: Note that when you tell her not to do something (or to do something), she has the choice and the power. While you have the power to enforce the boundary all yourself, no matter what she thinks/wants/chooses.

... .and if you can't sleep and panic and give in to whatever she demands in response to her threat to break up with her... .well... .she knows she can use that to control you, and she will. And that is why you are here.

Yes, it will be heartbreaking if she leaves. But ultimately, she will do so if she chooses, and you cannot stop it.

One thing I took to saying was something along the lines of "I love you, I don't want you to leave, but I cannot and will not force you to stay if you want to go. It is your choice."

[Hlinthewiking]

Well, I don't even know what to say after this weekend.

Friday at 4:30PM she asked me what time I'd pick her up, I said 7:30PM, which is around the same time I usually pick her up when she's at home. She thought it was late for some reason and started to get angry at me, I tried not to aggravate it but at the same time I was a bit fed up with fighting for everything, so I ended up not bothering much by it and letting her vent.

Closer to 6:30PM I sent her a message telling her I was on the way to pick her up (since she was upset, I tried to go as early as I could), she replied saying that she wasn't at home and that I should forget about her, I got confused, since I didn't think she got that mad and I was going sooner. I tried calling her, she didn't pick up on purpose, in fact, I called her 47-50 times in the next few hours and she kept ignoring me, meanwhile, midway around the calls I was forced to come back home, I had no idea where she was and since she lives around 15 miles from me, I couldn't wait for her to decide to answer me back or not, I already did wait an hour.
Around 10:30PM she decided to reply my texts, still saying to leave her alone or somewhat saying that we were over, at that time I wasn't feeling well at all, I was feeling like if things didn't improve soon, I wouldn't be able to remain stable.

I was right, about an hour later I had convinced her we would still see each other (which was a terrible idea and not at all what I wanted, since it was so late, but knowing on my state and the fact the should would only get worse if I didn't go, I did), I started to feel weird driving there, I needed to vent, the first thing was a scream from the bottom of my lungs which helped a bit, but I still wasn't well, I experience a lot of emotions, specially anger and sadness, I cried most the way. I can't say I'm proud but I did some reckless driving on the way there. Once I did, she got in the car and she was acting like nothing happened, I didn't know how to feel about that, I guess I had some sort of a mental collapse, I started to laugh, gag and cry at the same time, which probably looked very scary to her, it must probably have been the scariest joker act, that never happened to me before, it scared not just me but her.

Once we got to my place and when I though the worse had passed, she suddenly implied to me that a girl that had talked to me in the past when I was single was trying to talk to me, I initially though she was joking it on me, like she does some times, to make me feel bad about the past, then I checked the screen on my phone and there were no notifications, again I came to her and said, there's nothing there, she implied I should look at my messages, I did, and there was a message from that girl just saying "hi", I then said, I don't know what it is, she's coming to me, I don't talk to her in several months, my girlfriend got increasingly mad, she demanded I blocked her on every social media I got, I said I wouldn't do it, she had only said hi and I not only hadn't even had a thing with her in the past but she had done nothing wrong. My girlfriend then punched me in the face, I was not expecting it, this time she hit me hard, I was wearing my glasses, she bent my titanium thick glasses and hit me on my temporal bone, it was swollen pretty quick and was swollen and hurting the whole weekend. I took a minute to evaluate what just had happened, I took a deep breath and though about how I felt like, I actually felt sorry for her and almost shed a tear, I considered ending right now and driving her back home, but instead I told her that it would be the last time she touched me, the next time we would be over for good, I stood a far for a while to keep myself calm and to think, she was checking at her phone but I could see even she got scared of what she had done. After a while she felt bad, said she was sorry.

The whole weekend was a mess thanks to a girl just saying hi to me, on Saturday it was her time to have a breakdown when the girl tried talking to me again, since I didn't reply the first time, this time my girlfriend got bad, she cried her eyes out, got almost catatonic and was shaking a lot, I got really scared, I kept her close, wrapped my arms around her and tried to comfort her, I even told her I would block that girl and I meant it, but it didn't help, after a while I was able to calm her down and she got so stable we were able to have a good talk about our relationship and I took advantage too to talk a bit about BPD and how I knew what else was bothering her (other then me apparently), which is her father, he abandoned her when she was young and pretty much swapped families, re-married and forgot about her. I felt so much better because I felt like she understood she had a problem and I made her promise me that when she decided to see a shrink she would mention to him that I though she had BPD even if she didn't think she did.

I'm even more lost then before... .

[ArleighBurke]

You are playing her game. Not her intentional game, but you are caught up in her whirlwind.

STOP IT.

You need to be solid. Emotionally stable. If you had arranged to meetup at 6:30pm, and she texted she didn't want to, sure try to ask why. If she stops talking, won't answer etc then just text "I was looking forward to tonight, but if you're not up for it that's ok. Call me when you want to chat about it". Then NOTHING. Go and do your own thing. If she contacts you an hour later changin her mind - tell her you're really sorry but you're now doing X without her. Not in a punishment way - but in a "you don't control my life" way.

Hour long conversations trying to convince her to stay: NO! If she says she wants to break up, let her say that. There's a 95% chance that she's just mouthing off to try to get you to play. She PROBABLY doesn't mean it. Be emotionally secure enough to allow her to feel that. When you learn validation you will be able to talk about WHY she feels that WITHOUT actaully buying into it.

If she gets overwhelmed because you had a stranger say hi to you - that is HER problem. You need to learn to VALIDATE, but don't rescue her.

You have much work to do! Pretend she's a little 7yr old spoilt girl trying to get your attention. You can play along, but don't get sucked in. You are the adult.

[waverider]

You want her respect, pwBPD struggle to respect others. Would you respect someone who reacted they way you have been... probably not, a pwBPD certainly wont. This simply adds to her insecurity and cycle escalates

"Yes I will do this", and "no I wont do" that is a black and white language that pwBPD understand, even if they initially react badly to it. This black and white approach to interacting is something you need to take on board. ie making decisions for better or for worse, the important thing is they are decisons.

[Hlinthewiking]

Those are great advice and I'm truly trying, in fact I did yesterday... .

She left me.

I'm devastated, I don't know what to do.

One of our problems is that she didn't want to see my friends and didn't want me to see them when we usually see each other, so this week I tried to schedule on Thrusday, which is a day we wouldn't see each other, we did on Wednesday and would the weekend.

She already had started the day badly, bad mood, she's also on PMS, when I said I was going to see my friends after our talk on Saturday, she decided to or lied to me about her seeing her friends this Saturday, which I didn't oppose but thought she did to mess with me and not because she wanted to, also it is "our day", we would complete a year and a half together, which I know it's a big deal to her, she likes to celebrate every single month. She climbed up and kept getting worse everyday, she didn't eat anything until dinner at around 7PM even though she was hungry and had nothing to eat in 20h or so, then she started to say how she had promised that she would change and make and effort on our talk on Saturday but that I was not making any effort, basically because I got 20-30min late to pick her up in class on Wednesday, which I was very sorry for and apologized, I again apologized, recognized it was important to her and that it was a misstep, she kept on going, said it wasn't just it and she wanted to break up.

I tried to talk to her, calmly, said how much she meant to me and that I didn't want to break up but I had no power if she truly did. I was already late to meet with my friends from our argument, and she started to imply that if our relationship was important to me I should go to her place with is 15 miles away to beg her not to break up with me, I again said how much she was important to me and specially because of our conversation on Saturday, that was something I had to do and that I begged her not to do this, she started to say she was deleting pictures of us on social media, then she threatened to change her Facebook status, I again said I didn't want this and begged her not to.

After she realized I wasn't going to her house and to beg her and humiliate myself, she changed our Facebook status and that was the last time we spoke, that was 15h ago.

I'm devastated, in shock, having panic attacks, involuntarily and constantly cringing my teeth, I don't know what to do. Is it wrong to reach out to her? I just want to hug her really hard, please help.

[Grey Kitty]

You enforced a boundary--that you get to have your life with your friends, instead of dumping them whenever she applies pressure to you not to be with them. (Which by pure coincidence happens to be every time you try to see your friends!)

She responded with escalation to the point of breaking up with you on social media.

Has she done this to you before? Or otherwise threatened to break up with you?

My take... .you did the right thing, even though it hurt. Being isolated from / shut out from your friends like that is no way to live, and a person who insists on doing that is nobody you should live with.

That said... .she may well change her mind and spin on a dime and come back to you. In an hour, a day, a week, or a month.

Should you reach out? I dunno, but I'll tell you what I don't think you should do:

I don't think you should reach out and apologize for seeing your friends in the face of her threats / distress.

[Hlinthewiking]

Thanks Grey Kitty.

She has never done that before because I never allowed it to get to that point, she frequently threatens with breaking up with me for the most ridiculous things but she never did, I always run to rescue first.

That's why I fear she won't reach out, she's so used to me getting on my knees all the time, I think she will feel that I don't value her/our relationship anymore if I don't beg, and that's kinda what she said when I didn't want to go run to "her rescue" yesterday.

[waverider]

All these behaviors she is displaying she has a need to pressure someone, this is what validates her, having power over someone. If she breaks up with you then she has power over no one as long as you dont start begging again, which is what she expects.

If you dont, how do you think her needs will be met?

Regaining yourself is more important than regaining someone else. This is what you should prioritize now.

Give her space to reach out, her back is to the wall as much as yours. If you want change you have to be prepared to give up the old deal, if she cant come at a new deal then you are better without. Dont forget why you came here in the first place

[FallBack!Monster]

Without insulting anyone, is it soo soo bad for someone here to follow their heart. I don't know how to ask this w/o feeling like someone is going to take it wrong.  But is it soo soo bad to have a mind of your own?

What if the person doesn't want to stay away and risk detachment.  What if they are here just venting and don't really want to let go? Show we be telling people how to react to their personal situation. Or should we just be sharing ideas on how to handle it?

Even I'm guilty of doing it.  Like telling someone how not to be manipulated, and at the same telling them that the only way to regain their power is to over "power" the BPD ways, by being manipulative. 

[FallBack!Monster]

I'm very happy for this site and some of the advise that is being shared here.  But if I still wanted to be with my girl I wouldn't listen to anyone telling me how to manipulate the situation.  That's like me being manipulated into doing something, that my heart doesn't want to do, by people who again, are trying to help, but are manipulating me into doing things their way. Also, people that I have never met in person.  I hope I made myself clear without anyone feeling insulted.

I just think we need to give different ways for the victim(s) if you will, to see the situation.  And supporting them in finding a way out.  Not telling them what to do and what not to do.  Also, how weak they're being if they do what pleases them.

[Hlinthewiking]

Back2Me16

I asked for help, any advice that can be given to me is appreciated, I have the power to follow it or not.

Venting is what the name states, it doesn't solve problems, it alleviates temporarily.

Don't feel bad for giving advice, it's advice, not demands.   

[Grey Kitty]

The old game... .she demands, you capitulate.

And it isn't enough, and she demands a bit more next time. Until you are a shell of your former self. You know where this one goes, and you sounded at the beginning of this topic like you had gone as far that way as you could stand.

The new game... .she demands, you stand firm. Now it is her move:

If she leaves, she's decided that she would rather dump you than let you have friends. You will be devastated, but it isn't easy on her either... .and I'm pretty sure it is better for you than the old one.

If she decides that she's willing to come back, trust you, and let you have friends, you really win. Make it easy for her to do so. There is a good chance she will try to pretend that much of this last fight never happened... .if she's not wanting to dive back into it, no need to stop her from doing exactly that, at least for now.

Have you heard anything from her since? (Even pushing you away/blocking you further)

[Jessica84]

Manipulation is about controlling others, or punishing or teaching our partners a lesson.

This is futile... .and not a good long-term solution anyway.

Real change can come over time with consistent validation and boundaries. pwBPD crave constant validation, often seeking it in unhealthy ways. We unknowingly give them what they seek as a reward for their bad behavior. This makes us start behaving in unhealthy ways and doing things we normally wouldn't.

When we use boundaries to protect ourselves from their threats/demands/or other unhealthy behaviors, they may not like it -- especially if they've used it successfully to get their needs met. At that point they have the choice to walk away and find someone else to be unhealthy with, or adapt to our healthier ways. It's a risk -- and it's scary to change -- but things CAN improve.

[waverider]

Without insulting anyone, is it soo soo bad for someone here to follow their heart. I don't know how to ask this w/o feeling like someone is going to take it wrong.  But is it soo soo bad to have a mind of your own?

To have a healthy life you need to make healthy decisions. These come from developing a wise mind. The wise mind is a combination of the the emotional mind and the executive mind. When this balance shifts allowing one side or the other dominate it creates unhealthy dysfunction.

To travel this road takes judicious use of both accelerator and the brake to stay on the road.

BPD adds more twists and bends to the road so we have to be more attentive.

[waverider]

Once you can clearly understand and apply boundaries in such a way that they are clearly about us, and not someone else, it takes away the perception of control and manipulation.

This is not as easy as it seems, but is a major factor in whether you can uphold one or not. Once this aspect can be questioned and you start to doubt it, you start shifting from the moral high ground.

eg
" I will not listen to such things"
vs
"You cannot say such things"

[Hlinthewiking]

Have you heard anything from her since? (Even pushing you away/blocking you further)

She contacted me today at around 1-2AM, she clearly misses me but she wants to be sure that I know that turning my back on her that day was wrong and I not only should feel bad, admit it and apologize but likely should be punished for it (this last one is a deduction of mine), I said I needed to sleep and we could talk during the day but she always like to do things right now and she ignored me and I didn't want to ignore her now, so we argued until 5AM.

I just kept on saying that I did what I did because I felt it was right and for the sake of our relationship and that I would always be there for her, but on that day she was "putting a knife to the throat and saying she was going to kill herself, and me saying that I didn't want it and that she shouldn't do it wasn't enough, I should have ran over there and pulled the knife out of her hands" (metaphor), that basically I was tired to carry our relationship alone, that I wanted to be with her, but she also needed to want it and cherish it too.

She instead got angry and said I didn't understand her and that I could have seen my friends if things were ok, but they weren't because of me getting late on Wednesday like I stated earlier. I asked why she only got mad on Thursday if Wednesday I apologized for it and our night was very good together, she said she didn't want to have an ass face when she was at my place, so she basically held it in to fight me the next day.

Any advice? Despite she making me say it was all my fault as always I have a glimpse of hope that after what she told me and our talks things may improve, but maybe it's just manipulation and I have a hard time feeling like she will take account of her own actions towards me.

To have a healthy life you need to make healthy decisions. These come from developing a wise mind. The wise mind is a combination of the the emotional mind and the executive mind. When this balance shifts allowing one side or the other dominate it creates unhealthy dysfunction.

To travel this road takes judicious use of both accelerator and the brake to stay on the road.

BPD adds more twists and bends to the road so we have to be more attentive.

Loved this. At this moment my rational mind says: "she will never change or change enough to be good to you or to truly care for you, move on". My emotional mind says: "The top of this rollercoaster is as high as you will get, you will never feel like this ever again and it will leave a hole inside you that no one can fill"

[Jessica84]

I am so sorry you are going through all this turmoil. 

Sounds like she is bullying you and expecting you to read her mind which changes so rapidly you can hardly keep up. Ugh, I haven't endured any physical abuse, but I remember hearing the same long rants of how horrible I was. And they were horrible.

People will treat us how we let them. This is why boundaries are so important. You started with a good boundary: "I need to sleep. Let's talk during the day"... .but then talked all night. I used to do the same. Jumping to take his calls or respond to texts after an argument (no matter what time or even if I almost wrecked my car trying to reply by text!) for fear of the repercussions if I didn't -- like a breakup, silent treatment, raging anger, furious texts, publicly badmouthing me... .ugh

He would feel soothed for a moment, but I usually felt sick, dizzy and confused after, like what just happened? And it kept happening... .again... and again... until I tried something different, like hanging up or ignoring his calls/texts. I got to where I didn't want to hear it anymore. I feared all the bad stuff he could do, but did it anyway. After he dumped me or I got the silent treatment a few times, I always wished I hadn't. But he kept coming back... .and I kept hanging up whenever he got that way. I figured silence was better than abuse... .

Point is, try not to let your fears of how she will react or what she will do overcome you. You cannot control what she does. She may break up, but she also may come back. This is not up to you. Focus on you -- what you need, what you want. Because not enforcing boundaries only serves THEIR immediate needs -- like hers was to unload/accuse/blame you for everything until you apologized--- right then, not later when it was more convenient for you. Think of YOUR needs, like sleeping and not listening to all that abuse. Like I said, things can change, but it starts with US. Believe in yourself, take care of YOU   

[Hlinthewiking]

Jessica84 Thank you for such kind words and support  .

Oh I became an expert in texting and driving, I also learned how to drive without my hands using my knees ><.

I noticed a couple things happened since the break up, one thing is that I really need to keep myself busy and staying at home is hard, the other thing is that I'm dissociating less and I'm being much more efficient in doing errands. When I was with her I had a hard time relaxing and doing simple things as doing dishes and keeping the house clean. My teeth and my gastrointestinal system is taking a beating though.

I'm contemplating on not coming back and I started to wonder if I could see other people, there are some very nice women who want to see me and I feel bad just for considering it, part of me thinks it's best for me to learn to live by myself for a while but I'v always been codependent in my relationships and that part of me is telling it would help to see someone healthy to have a talk, I feel ashamed for even writing this... .But could I have some feedback on it?

[Woods77]

It might be worth you reading about co-dependency and seeing if you have that, you'll know straight away. I've got it and my partner has awful BPD.

www.lifecounsel.org/pub_li_overcomingCodependency.html

www.m.dummies.com/how-to/content/codependency-for-dummies-cheat-sheet.html

[Hlinthewiking]

Woods77

Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm co-dependent, I have discussed this with my therapist and enforced that I was starting to become aware of it and that it was probably what was getting in the way of other problems in my life outside of my romantic relationship.

I'v always had problems living by myself and I know I function better and less anxious when I'm with someone. I dissociate a lot and have problems with depression.

I know that I would fit in the Cluster C and I have tried to self diagnose before without much success since Codependency was not included in the DSM, which I just became aware of. I was looking at other Cluster C PDs and I knew I didn't fit in one despite having characteristics of most of them.

My therapist agrees on Cluster C and didn't appear to be much concerned by it, he stated it is the easiest cluster to treat and after much therapy, now he pretty much says every session that I must leave this relationship for he is worried that I may be in danger (Death, arrest, since she has threatened to lie to get me in jail before, and undesired pregnancy) and that it was the best thing for me to get out of this as soon as possible and that treating my Codependency symptoms takes time and may not be the best for me to stay in this relationship for that long.

The reason I wanted to treat this before deciding to leave is mainly because I'm not sure how long I can stay alone and seek out another partner and start my over caring/pleasing, to the point where in most relationships I constantly ask my partner whether their happy and if there is something they would like me to do for them. This is not my first abusive relationship and I would like it to be the last.

I read those links and I fit them almost scary-like, over 90% of what's stated can be true to me.