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Author Topic: She wants unconditional love  (Read 358 times)
ArleighBurke
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: was married - 15 yrs
Posts: 911


« on: July 16, 2016, 11:34:27 PM »

I'm not sure why I'm posting this. This fits squarely with BPD behaviour and doesn't surprise me at all. If anything it's kinda amusing... .

I was lying in bed at night with my uBPDw. She was on my chest. I had my arm around her stroking her shoulder.

Her: You've changed and think men should be in charge. 
Me: Er... .No. Why do you think that?
Her: You told me about the study that said women at home were happier than those who worked. And you you said that the feminine movement was good, but now we need a masculine movement. And you wanted to go on the parenting course run by a heavily christian church with traditional views.
Me: That's all true - but I'm happy for you to work, and our marriage should be an equal leadership.
Her: I put those things together and they point to you thinking men should be in charge. That makes me scared. I've told others about the things you've said and they agree that it could mean you think that.
Me: Those things *could* mean that I think that, and I understand you being wary as a precaution - but then when you ask me and I tell you that I DON'T believe it, why can't you believe me?
Her: I think you logically don't believe it - you wouldn't let yourself have or express such an outdated view. But deep down I think you believe it.
Me: Er... .No!
Her: I notice that you're not cuddling me anymore.  <she was still lying on my chest, but my arm was off her>
Me: I'm finding it very difficult feeling close to you when you are pushing me away with your words.
Her: We are both feeling annoyed at the moment - we need to work through that.
<I really just went silent after that and very soon she left>

The next day:
Her: You can't abandon me and withdraw your love like that just because you don't like what i say. With the kids - when they do something we don't like, we still hug them to show we still love them. When I was growing up my Mum did the same thing -  when i did something she didn't like she withdraw all her love and affection until I jumped through lots of hoops to get win it back. When YOU withdraw, it brings up all those feelings again. So you're not allowed to do that.

She is aware! She knows that it's not *me*, but what I remind in her. But she still has the "solution" being ME changing my behaviour. And she wants unconditional love.
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motherhen
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 59



« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2016, 01:05:59 AM »

Oy. You did really well handling that. And finding the good in what appears to be you being set up for what she's decided you already believe despite reassurance that you don't. That was pretty vulnerable of her to share though. Baby steps are good.
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Lilyroze
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Posts: 337



« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2016, 01:47:13 AM »

  WilliamsKevin,

I wasn't going to post any-more, but yours called out to me. Please use what you can and throw out the rest.

If I might give a slightly different perspective on this, unconditional love is a beautiful thing. Giving love and receiving love is what truly makes marriages work, the key to them, friendships lasting, and well what makes the world not a cold place.

Having said that I know that when you are dealing with someone with BPD, it is important to be true to yourself, self respect and self love as well.

I have been humbled and honoured to have many girlfriends from all walks of life, different spiritual backgrounds, and well they are all so beautiful and unique.

Right now there is many mommy wars going on, work, don't work, it is of no matter to me, I just want all my GF's happy in life and their marriages. None of my business. So lets just say when women talk, get together, in some forums or blogs, there is much discussion on freedom for women, pressure from many different aspects of life.

My friends don't really pressure people nor do I, but doesn't mean society, different groups don't.

I have one friend bless her heart, that doesn't live close by but we have so much in common. When she goes to groups with other women she feels so left out, as she is a stay at home ( cooks, bakes etc) , she is made fun of. Sad really.

To me women who stay home, if really work the house, the budget and take care of things, save money. Should be so blessed and appreciated indeed ( might be biased... .hehe as I have had to do all that while working etc).

I think those who work should be blessed and appreciated indeed. Sometimes with modern stress many couples don't realize with budgeting, cooking from scratch, investing, and saving they might do better with one at home. All the expenses of working, taking out might not equal out.

I am pointing this out, as these are things that might be being discussed or important in your wife’s circle. Many discuss men being head of home, and how wonderful ( if a good man). Many discuss that is not good, as you give up your say as woman ( as they might not understand some concept behind it).

Now I am prefacing as it seems you want to take a course to be a better husband and father. Which is admirable and your choice, and wonderful to do. The whole point is to be better, learn but also for your wife. If she is not comfortable with who is teaching or why you are going... .well defeats the purpose.

I am not saying don't go, or she is right, nor will I say she is wrong. Here is why my sbtxUNBPD doesn't research well, ( example got a speeding ticket, said no worries and didn't follow up or through what he had to do... .why? Well because he researched for such and such a state... .he doesn't live in that state but was first result in google). I am a researcher, always have been, and deep to the point I want to see who is sponsoring the opinion. As facts can be dependent on who did the study, paid for it, etc... .Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I am not saying your didn't research but maybe take to heart her concerns. Ask here where she found the research? Why does she feel that way?  She might be fearful!

Yes FEAR can be False Evidence Appearing Real. Or she might be irrational. If so then make the choice like you are and go ahead.

If not you might learn something she or someone found. Even better find some classes for her betterment and give as a gift. Say is there a hobby she wants to learn ( then she will focus on positive), is there a mindfulness class she wants to do, how about a fun marriage retreat you both feel comfortable with. Trial through Fire is wonderful.

If she feels you are punishing her for speaking out, by being cold or not hugging. I admire she spoke out about it. Better then silent rage, or worse silent treatment. Open communication is a good thing.

Whether you feel you did that or not, she did. You can't win every battle but you can win the war. Cuddle, talk it out, and see her perspective on the fact she did give an example. With the kids even if you don't like you still are there and hug. That is her love language BPD aside. She gave you a GIFT. Take it or leave it. Many women only open their heart to a love language request once in awhile. Then they give up.

There is so many different personalities and, love languages PD's aside. See what love language you both have. That is the key and so helpful.

BPD or not women are more emotional based, ( that is not bad) that is why God had them be the mothers. More feeling, compassion.

Take the Gift, and bless it back. Take to heart her request. Then  you will always have an open communication that doesn't stop at the bedroom door. Sorry if this is too forward.

Have her help you if she likes researching and make her being a part of a marriage retreat,  finding a class for you, or you both. Make it fun, that you go to dinner after your class to discuss. Say you would like to talk to her without the kids to get her opinion of what you learned. Try to make her feel she is part or her idea.

If all else fails do your hobbies, your important goals, your time, and your classes for you. You can't stop living for someone else. In the end though a marriage class should not be the war, or even battle it should be a gift you both feel happy with. 

Blessings
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Notwendy
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10509



« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2016, 09:40:33 AM »



I think you mentioned in another one of your posts- that your wife was upset about the marriage group. This seems like a possible root of her thinking- reading things into this- imagining you might become a tyrant. Or she is disturbed that you have different ideas than she does.

So she wants unconditional love. I think we all want that. However, it is possible that the two of you have different ideas about what that means.

If someone has poor boundaries, it might mean being enmeshed- that you and she think alike, that you don't disagree. That you don't say "no" to her. That unconditional love means doing what she wants without consequences.

But is that unconditional love? Parents love their kids unconditionally, but if the child wants cookies for dinner, is it loving to feed him cookies or to say no ( and then endure the temper tantrum that follows). Loving someone unconditionally may mean that they aren't happy with your decision - but that the decision was made in their best interest.

Does unconditional love mean that two people feel exactly alike about religion or politics or that two people together have the space to make up their own minds?

As to her conversation- it seems she is telling you how you feel- as if somehow she knows how you feel based on your interest in your group. But that is a boundary violation- your feelings are yours. The lessons on JADE are helpful to diffuse these things.

She disagrees with your participation in this group somehow, but that is up to you, and how you interpret the information is up to you. I think there is some fear here that you will wish you were with a more traditional partner, or adopt ideas she does not agree with. I think you can validate her feelings about this, while still maintaining your boundary to have your own opinions. Ultimately- and I think you know this- that whatever your preference is about marriage roles, she is who she is too- and may not go along with it.

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ArleighBurke
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: was married - 15 yrs
Posts: 911


« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2016, 07:11:40 PM »

I'm not sure what started her talking. But her main problem was that I "wasn't cuddling her back". I felt like she was pushing me away by telling me how I felt, so i didn't really feel like cuddling her at that point. She seemed to think that I *should* cuddle her all the time - because that's unconditional love - even if I am feeling distant. This is cr@p because there's no WAY she would agree to that if our positions were reversed. (I asked her a while back to start a routine - that we kiss for 10secs each night before bed. I said I thought it would help us to be loving and close - and a beautiful way to end each day. She said no - "What if I don't feel like it?"

But after the following day's conversation (in my original post)  I validated really well. I said words to the effect of:
- I KNOW you had a horrible childhood
- I KNOW that you fear abandonment
- I am sorry for that
- I am fully aware my actions have consequences for you
- But if I feel distant because you are pushing me away with your words, i will pull away.

(Sounds like the SET formula!)

She was quiet. So I laid behind her and cuddled her. She cried a little and held me back tightly.

It felt like a win.
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Lilyroze
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 337



« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2016, 07:49:37 PM »

Excerpt
She was quiet. So I laid behind her and cuddled her. She cried a little and held me back tightly.

It felt like a win.

That is awesome! You are really doing well in dealing with making her feel safe, secure and with her insecurity or irrationality.
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